30 y/o very low gpa non-trad who needs help with plan of action

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PrincessAma

PrincessAma
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Hi everyone,

It's been about 9 years since I've been on SDN. Crazy how time flies. I've always wanted to pursue medicine and it's in the only thing I wat to do. Rather than working jobs that aren't my passion. I am looking for some suggestions and ideas with my situation. Due to my home life, some familial death and financial obligations to my family I completed my bachelors degree in 2011 (BA Psychology) and continued to take courses and failed. Not because I couldn't handle the material, but because I just wasn't attending. I didn't actually do the work and didn't drop courses when I should have. I am looking for constructive advice. I figured I'd come here instead of hiring a medical application counsellor as a lot of you are very well versed at this. I've taken some time to calculate my stats, here they are:

Overall GPA 2.07 (207 credit hours; including 93 informal post bacc classes)
BCPM GPA 1.89 (66 credits; including 45 informal post back classes)

Volunteering/research experience:
80 hours volunteering in a Post-Anesthetic Care Unit (2011)
1 year as a research assistant in Traumatic Brain injury/neurosurgery studies (2015-2016)
1 year working in healthcare claims for injured workers (2017-2018)
Volunteered abroad for a month
Currently working in cancer research as a data specialist at an academic institution/ health system (allows for patient interaction)
Other church and cancer related volunteer/fundraising experiences

I've worked in the transportation industry for four years as well after receiving my bachelor's degree.
I moved away from all my distractions and family in December 2018 to focus on my aspirations. I am now working in research in aims of immersing myself in clinical medicine. My plan was to do a BS with ASU online (due to the fact I have to work) and pursue a one year MPH. I aim to apply for the 2021 entrance cycle. I have no MCAT scores. Another thing I should mention is that I have not been in any form of school for 2 years (Spring 2017 was my last class).

PLEASE HELP WITH ANY COURSES OF ACTION. I CAN DEFINITELY DO THE WORK AND ARE GOOD AT SCIENCES, JUST HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO APPLY MYSELF. IT'S STILL NO EXCUSE. THAT'S WHY I NEED YOUR HELP.
 
This might sound a bit harsh, but it's reality. Saying that you can do the work and actually demonstrating your ability to do the work, which is what med school applications are all about, are very different. A 1.89 sGPA and sub 2.5cGPA is an absolute death sentence and will get you screened out of pretty much all med schools. You will need to take a lot of classes and do extremely well to raise your GPA enough to even get past screening,

I used a quick GPA calculator: In order to raise your cGPA to a 2.50, you will need to maintain a 4.0 for 60 credit hours, which is essentially half of another Bachelor's degree. Aiming for entrance in 2021 is not realistic at this point. You would have to be preparing your application in 1-1.5 years from now if you were to begin in 2021.

If you are dead set on medical school here is my advice: Do not take the MCAT until you have a full understanding of all of the material and are able to ace classes that are related to the test. You are essentially starting from scratch with a major uphill battle in front of you, and a single poor grade or MCAT attempt will likely sink you for good. You believe in yourself, which is an awesome first step, but you need to objectively show ADCOMs why they should invest in you.

Read this: Goro's advice for pre-meds who need reinvention
 
Last edited by a moderator:
First off, you may be the first person I've seen to have more credits and a lower GPA than I started off with, so kudos on that.

MPH is a non-starter for med school in your situation so don't even consider it.

At a minimum you will need a self-directed post bacc in addition to a structured post-bacc (probably with linkage) to even have a chance of entering medical school. Sometime in there you will need to get a very high MCAT as well. The issue with structured post-baccs is that many of them have a minimum GPA requirement, usually a 3.0. As a previous poster stated, it would take you 60 hours of straight A's just to get to a 2.5. At that point, if you had a truly amazing post-bacc GPA and MCAT, you might be able to get a grade waiver for SMP/post-bacc admission. Then you have to perform exceptionally well, get an interview, and get accepted. That is probably your only realistic path unless your family has donated a hospital wing somewhere.

The other issue is that there is no chance you'll be ready to apply for matriculation in 2021. That cycle begins a little over 1 year from now. Your rebuilding path would take 3 years minimum if you went absolutely balls to the wall full time and aced everything. That doesn't sound likely since you still need to work during school. Doing part time school work could extend that timeline by 2-3 more years.

Assuming you have enough volunteer time, you'll still need clinical exposure of around 50-100 hours.

And if this all sounds ridiculous, it's not, because it's almost exactly what I did. My GPA wasn't quite as low as yours but it was still low enough to require an SMP just for a decent shot of entry. Personally, if I had to do it over again except on a 5-6 year premed path, I'd definitely do something else.
 
Thank you for your advice. What do you think about doing a BS with ASU online? I’m not sure if medical schools would look favorably at that versus an in-class program. ASU requires that you do lab sections at their campus though.
 
mc29012 said:
This might sound a bit harsh, but it's reality. Saying that you can do the work and actually demonstrating your ability to do the work, which is what med school applications are all about, are very different. A 1.89 sGPA and sub 2.5cGPA is an absolute death sentence and will get you screened out of pretty much all med schools. You will need to take a lot of classes and do extremely well to raise your GPA enough to even get past screening,

I used a quick GPA calculator: In order to raise your cGPA to a 2.50, you will need to maintain a 4.0 for 60 credit hours, which is essentially half of another Bachelor's degree. Aiming for entrance in 2021 is not realistic at this point. You would have to be preparing your application in 1-1.5 years from now if you were to begin in 2021.

If you are dead set on medical school here is my advice: Do not take the MCAT until you have a full understanding of all of the material and are able to ace classes that are related to the test. You are essentially starting from scratch with a major uphill battle in front of you, and a single poor grade or MCAT attempt will likely sink you for good. You believe in yourself, which is an awesome first step, but you need to objectively show ADCOMs why they should invest in you.

Read this: Goro's advice for pre-meds who need reinvention
Click to expand...

Thank you so much. Not harsh at all. Your advice has been helpful.
 
PrincessAma said:
Thank you for your advice. What do you think about doing a BS with ASU online? I’m not sure if medical schools would look favorably at that versus an in-class program. ASU requires that you do lab sections at their campus though.
Click to expand...

I did not have anyone look at me negatively for doing half of my degree online through a brick and mortar school, afaik. But don’t take prereqs online unless you plan on exclusively applying DO and you’ve ensured that the schools you will apply to accept them. Many MD schools will not accept online prereqs. But honestly, DO will probably be your best shot anyway.
 
Thank you! Leaning more towards a brick and mortar. I think that will keep my my already limited options more open.
 
The process is very competitive. And you're not off to a good start at all. Take what I say with a grain of salt, but I would imagine you'd need whatever amount of classes / credits that it would take to bring that up to at least a 3.0 for a shot at DO school. Once you do that, with a killer mcat, then I think we can talk about potential SMP with linkage or admission process in general. Otherwise, I think it's safe to say that you will not be accepted with these stats and a good mcat.

There's a non-traditional user on here who I don't remember his/her handle but I believe this person got another whole BS, then SMP, great MCAT and then got into an MD program.
 
AsianPersuasion said:
The process is very competitive. And you're not off to a good start at all. Take what I say with a grain of salt, but I would imagine you'd need whatever amount of classes / credits that it would take to bring that up to at least a 3.0 for a shot at DO school. Once you do that, with a killer mcat, then I think we can talk about potential SMP with linkage or admission process in general. Otherwise, I think it's safe to say that you will not be accepted with these stats and a good mcat.

There's a non-traditional user on here who I don't remember his/her handle but I believe this person got another whole BS, then SMP, great MCAT and then got into an MD program.
Click to expand...

It’s possible. I know people irl who have done it with worse starting GPAs.
 
AsianPersuasion said:
Like, getting in with a 2.07 and 1.89 GPA?
Click to expand...

No, like they started with <1.0 and <2.0 GPAs and worked their way up the GPA ladder by taking lots of courses, getting great ECs, and in some cases doing an SMP. Then getting in. Not a quick process.
 
Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
No, like they started with QUOTE]

Thank you! I know it’s a lot of work ahead and I’m not in the best position, but we all have to start somewhere so thank you. With the individuals that you knew who went to through similar feats did they generally do a DIY post bacc and try the SMP in most cases?
Click to expand...
 
AsianPersuasion said:
The process is very competitive. And you're not off to a good start at all. Take what I say with a grain of salt, but I would imagine you'd need whatever amount of classes / credits that it would take to bring that up to at least a 3.0 for a shot at DO school. Once you do that, with a killer mcat, then I think we can talk about potential SMP with linkage or admission process in general. Otherwise, I think it's safe to say that you will not be accepted with these stats and a good mcat.

There's a non-traditional user on here who I don't remember his/her handle but I believe this person got another whole BS, then SMP, great MCAT and then got into an MD program.
Click to expand...

Let me know if you happen to remember his/her handle. I’d love to get as much information as I can. Nothing good comes easy so I’m very willing to put in whatever work it takes. Thank you.
 
AsianPersuasion said:
Like, getting in with a 2.07 and 1.89 GPA?
Click to expand...

Btw my aim is obviously not to apply with my current gpa. Loll. Was looking for guidance on what my best course of action would be. For instance 2nd degree/diy post bacc to SMP/MCAT etc.
 
Please keep in mind with goa correction a PA program maybe an easier way for you to get into medicine. Dont discount this. Do your homework and look into it. PA have an important roll in medicine are getting more and more responsibilities and get paid great. You could be there in 4 years or less getting paid. If you want to be a physician you are looking at least 10 before you see any money.

As far as med school goes ... meh. You could take 60 hours of UG course if you can find and afford them, then do an SMP then start med school most likely DO ( most forgiving) then after 4 year deal with what the hell is left of the match. Please look up what is going on in the match with DOs and in general... its hardcore. Believe me its stupid hard.

It seems like you have some other life stuff going on that maybe pushing you in different directions. If I was you I would correct my gpa and try PA.
 
If you want DO, you're likely going to need to ace 1-2 years of additional full time upper division science coursework, ace the MCAT and then apply to a Post-Bacc or SMP program, ideally one which offers guaranteed acceptance upon meeting a certain GPA. The MPH won't help much. Also bear in mind some DO schools won't accept online credits.

90 units at ASU is going to run you 50k and a 1 year PB/SMP is going to cost another 30-50k. Which puts you 3-4 years away from a potential acceptance. I'd strongly recommend reconsidering and making sure that being a physician would be worth that to you. BSN, NP, Podiatry or PA would be easier programs from an admissions perspective.



PrincessAma said:
Not because I couldn't handle the material, but because I just wasn't attending. I didn't actually do the work and didn't drop courses when I should have.
Click to expand...
This was the same excuse I told myself after getting a 2.4 gpa Freshman year. It took me a little over a year to correct my study habits. Speaking as someone who did a 40 unit post-bacc while working full time, I wouldn't have been successful if I had to correct my study habits while doing the PB and working.


At this point I'd also consider the Texas fresh start program if you're willing to move to Texas. They'll essentially ignore any grades taken over 10 years ago on your academic record. So, if you wait a few years until your worst grades are behind you and then ace a post bacc, you'd be in a much better position.
 
Not saying it’s impossible because it technically is. But the amount of time and money that would go into obtaining an admission anywhere is totally not worth it. You’d spend a fortune and have to literally be perfect on paper for the next 5-7 years and then it still might not work out. There’s no way I’d go through that much crap just to start med school and I don’t think anyone else should either. Best of luck in whatever you decide.
 
I agree with @Ho0v-man. Also another thing to consider is that you said you moved away from your family and distractions. While it's good to focus, you do need a support system to get you through tough times in life. Whatever you choose, try to keep in mind that these are still livable years of your life and you deserve to enjoy it with people you love.
 
I would strongly consider a Master's program with direct matriculation. TouroCOM-Middletown offers such a program. If you do well (Top 40% of the class), or something like that (It ends up being about 10-15 kids) get direct matriculation into the DO program without having to retake the MCAT or re-apply.

Otherwise, I agree with the others- a PA program may be more beneficial given your age and lack of having to do a residency.
 
There was someone last year that got into MD with a 3.0 and 519 MCAT. He/she had a sub 2.0 GPA after 150 credits but it took 3 years to pull that gpa up. You need a lot to go right, 2-3 years of 3.8+gpa work and a killer MCAT. Your big problem is going to be the admissions screens. Many MD/DO schools say they require atleast a 3.0 to be considered for a secondary. I know I’m going to get a lot of hate for this but a carribean path might be the only realistic means to get in. If you already have 200 credits, it’s going to take almost that many to get your GPA up to a 3.0. Take 40 or so upper level science credits and if you ace them AND do above average on the MCAT (500+), then I think you’ve proven to yourself that you can make it through med school. At that point, you can go against the grain and apply carribean or do 120 more credits of 4.0 postbac and apply MD or DO depending on your MCAT. Carribean schools are tougher than US schools because they simply don’t care if you fail out leaving you with life crippling debt. If you decide the carribean route, you need to be all in. 200k in student loan debt with no medical degree will ruin your life.

Long story short: 4 years of postbac with A’s for MD/DO or take a year packed with upper level bio classes with A’s and apply carribean.
 
I think your only reasonable chance at this point is an SMP. This will be high risk and high reward for you. I say “reasonable” because I don’t think taking another four years of post-bacc only to end up at a 3.0 - maybe - is even kind of worth it.

Find an SMP that would consider you with such a low GPA. If there are none, take classes until you reach a GPA that would be considered.

Then blow the SMP out of the water. 4.0 that thing. If you do subpar, your career as a physician is dead. It’s very close to dead today.
 
KeikoTanaka said:
I would strongly consider a Master's program with direct matriculation. TouroCOM-Middletown offers such a program. If you do well (Top 40% of the class), or something like that (It ends up being about 10-15 kids) get direct matriculation into the DO program without having to retake the MCAT or re-apply.

Otherwise, I agree with the others- a PA program may be more beneficial given your age and lack of having to do a residency.
Click to expand...
Thank you, will look into this program.
 
Isoval said:
I think your only reasonable chance at this point is an SMP. This will be high risk and high reward for you. I say “reasonable” because I don’t think taking another four years of post-bacc only to end up at a 3.0 - maybe - is even kind of worth it.

Find an SMP that would consider you with such a low GPA. If there are none, take classes until you reach a GPA that would be considered.

Then blow the SMP out of the water. 4.0 that thing. If you do subpar, your career as a physician is dead. It’s very close to dead today.
Click to expand...
I am currently looking at SMPs that will look at the the last 60 credits for instance.
 
bears1992 said:
There was someone last year that got into MD with a 3.0 and 519 MCAT. He/she had a sub 2.0 GPA after 150 credits but it took 3 years to pull that gpa up. You need a lot to go right, 2-3 years of 3.8+gpa work and a killer MCAT. Your big problem is going to be the admissions screens. Many MD/DO schools say they require atleast a 3.0 to be considered for a secondary. I know I’m going to get a lot of hate for this but a carribean path might be the only realistic means to get in. If you already have 200 credits, it’s going to take almost that many to get your GPA up to a 3.0. Take 40 or so upper level science credits and if you ace them AND do above average on the MCAT (500+), then I think you’ve proven to yourself that you can make it through med school. At that point, you can go against the grain and apply carribean or do 120 more credits of 4.0 postbac and apply MD or DO depending on your MCAT. Carribean schools are tougher than US schools because they simply don’t care if you fail out leaving you with life crippling debt. If you decide the carribean route, you need to be all in. 200k in student loan debt with no medical degree will ruin your life.

Long story short: 4 years of postbac with A’s for MD/DO or take a year packed with upper level bio classes with A’s and apply carribean.
Click to expand...
As ridiculous as it may sound. I'm not willing to go to a Carribean school. I am not looking at limited SMPs that will take recent course work and a great MCAT for admission. And programs like Wayne State that will look at a post bacc/SMP for your admission average.
 
Hey OP -
I had to do this too - started at 2.6, took 3 years to get it to a 3.14, applied and didn't get in, did a masters, then got into a MD school. Let me know if I can answer any questions about the process.

I agree with what everybody above has already said (you gotta do more class, SMPs, avoid online courses if possible, etc)
At the schools which would even consider you (i.e. search for Goro's list of schools that reward reinvention) you don't necessarily need to have your GPA all the way up to 4 (although the higher you get it, the better), but you are going to need at least 60 credits of recent 3.8+ work (i.e. 1 year of an audition-style SMP or 2 years of post-bacc coursework) to show that you've gotten it together.
Pros/Cons for either:
-they'll be about the same price, so that's a wash.
-post-bacc classes will take longer, but that also gives you time to do the other things for your app (volunteering, shadowing, etc.), and can be done local to wherever you are
-SMP is faster, but can be more risky - if you don't get in immediately after this, it's much harder to get in later. Also probably won't be local for you, so factor moving costs in as well.
 
In my opinion, if you want to have a professional career in healthcare, become an RN. With enough on-the-job experience and some heavy GRE prep, you could eventually become an NP.

You currently have 273 credits under your belt and a 2.0 overall GPA. Even if you were able to get A's in every course you take from here on out (and that's a pretty big "if" given your track record), you'd only have a shot at getting into DO school after 3-4 years of full-time study. The huge personal and financial sacrifices you'd have to make, and the enormous concomitant risks you'd have to take on, aren't worth the possibility of becoming an attending physician in your early to mid-40s.

A lot of established members on this forum tend to have an unwavering "medicine or bust" mentality. However, it's important to remember that a career in medicine is not a panacea; it's not worth ruining the entire third decade of your life for a chance at starting medical school. I don't mean to be rude or harsh—and this probably isn't what you wanted to hear, but I hope you take some time to seriously reflect on your priorities and goals before pushing all your chips in. Of course, at the end of the day, the decision is yours. Best of luck.
 
What’s changed in your life or brain that you’re going to be able to rock a 4.0 in a SMP when you haven’t broken a 2.0 even in postbac, even very recently? If it was many years ago and you’re a whole new focused person now maybe...but 2017 was like yesterday.
 
OP, like many have said, you have a path to medical school, but you are gonna have to rock it. Without DO grade replacement, the path to medical school is an unforgiving one.

Even if you do 2 years of 4.0 post bac, 4.0 a SMP, you still have to do well on the MCAT. Even then, you still might not get into a school. Not saying it is impossible, as others have done it. If this is truly what you want vs you like the sound of you being a doctor, is something you need to figure out. Some people just are not cut out for the academic rigor of medicine, and there is no shame in that. Even if you get into med school, you still have to pass STEP.

If you have the doctor itch, I recommend Podiatry. A year of good grades and a decent MCAT could convince a large school to take a chance on you. pod schools are much less fussy about grades, and in many states you are legally considered a “Physician”. I’ve read Pod schools take students as low as 2.3 GPA (personally have seen a couple 2.5). It would be a much shorter and sure road.
 
What about the Texas academic fresh start?

At what point does that become a legitimate option?
 
RNthenDoc said:
What about the Texas academic fresh start?

At what point does that become a legitimate option?
Click to expand...
10 years out. Which is not an option for OP unless she wants to move to TX and then wait another 8-ish years before beginning the process.
 
kraskadva said:
10 years out. Which is not an option for OP unless she wants to move to TX and then wait another 8-ish years before beginning the process.
Click to expand...

OP finished their bachelors in 2011. So ~8 years ago. Which would be 114 of their 207 credit hours. It'd make the Post-Bacc route much more viable.
 
WoundupKnight said:
OP finished their bachelors in 2011. So ~8 years ago. Which would be 114 of their 207 credit hours. It'd make the Post-Bacc route much more viable.
Click to expand...

This is what I was thinking. Obviously not everybody can relocate to Texas but if it were me I’d rather been a Texan than a Caribbean, yaknow?
 
WoundupKnight said:
OP finished their bachelors in 2011. So ~8 years ago. Which would be 114 of their 207 credit hours. It'd make the Post-Bacc route much more viable.
Click to expand...
Yes, but continued to take 93 credits worth of classes between then and 2017, which she says she mostly failed. So if she were to wipe out the BA credits (which presumably contain enough decent grades to get her at a 2.07 rather than a 0), then she'd likely be starting off with a worse GPA to remediate, albeit less hours weighing it down.
 
FDF88131-FE40-43A4-8814-F4805E825A3D.jpeg

Somebody wanna crunch the numbers?
 
We don't have the gpa for those 93 credits separately, but doing some rough numbers...
258411


but OP would still have to wait at least 2 years before starting the process, which she seems to not want to do.
And we don't know anything about her feelings on/feasibility of moving to Texas...
 
kraskadva said:
We don't have the gpa for those 93 credits separately, but doing some rough numbers...
View attachment 258411

but OP would still have to wait at least 2 years before starting the process, which she seems to not want to do.
And we don't know anything about her feelings on/feasibility of moving to Texas...
Click to expand...

I live in Texas, but the fresh start rule would only apply to courses I took before 2009 which is where I performed the best. I’m taking the 1-2 year post bacc, high MCAT, SMP route.
 
PrincessAma said:
I live in Texas, but the fresh start rule would only apply to courses I took before 2009 which is where I performed the best. I’m taking the 1-2 year post bacc, high MCAT, SMP route.
Click to expand...

I am not attempting to increase my ugpa to a 3.0, just to show enough of an upward trend to get into a good SMP preferably with linkage. I’ve talked to a few medical schools (MD) that seem very open to considering non-trads like me who can display strong, recent coursework. And then there are also the DOs.
 
Osminog said:
In my opinion, if you want to have a professional career in healthcare, become an RN. With enough on-the-job experience and some heavy GRE prep, you could eventually become an NP.

You currently have 273 credits under your belt and a 2.0 overall GPA. Even if you were able to get A's in every course you take from here on out (and that's a pretty big "if" given your track record), you'd only have a shot at getting into DO school after 3-4 years of full-time study. The huge personal and financial sacrifices you'd have to make, and the enormous concomitant risks you'd have to take on, aren't worth the possibility of becoming an attending physician in your early to mid-40s.

A lot of established members on this forum tend to have an unwavering "medicine or bust" mentality. However, it's important to remember that a career in medicine is not a panacea; it's not worth ruining the entire third decade of your life for a chance at starting medical school. I don't mean to be rude or harsh—and this probably isn't what you wanted to hear, but I hope you take some time to seriously reflect on your priorities and goals before pushing all your chips in. Of course, at the end of the day, the decision is yours. Best of luck.
Click to expand...

I’ll have my MD by 36
 
PrincessAma said:
I’ll have my MD by 36
Click to expand...
Hi PrincessAma!! Congratulations on being accepted and saying that you'll have your MD by 36!! Do you have another post on how you did it? I am so glad you didn't listen to the negatives and kept going!! 🙂
 
PrincessAma said:
I am not attempting to increase my ugpa to a 3.0, just to show enough of an upward trend to get into a good SMP preferably with linkage. I’ve talked to a few medical schools (MD) that seem very open to considering non-trads like me who can display strong, recent coursework. And then there are also the DOs.
Click to expand...
Don’t most MD/DO schools screen apps at 3.0 cGPA? I know a lot of schools won’t even read your app if you don’t make that minimum requirement.
 
stickgirl390 said:
Don’t most MD/DO schools screen apps at 3.0 cGPA? I know a lot of schools won’t even read your app if you don’t make that minimum requirement.
Click to expand...

Only about half have a minimum GPA requirement. Of those, 14 require 3.0 or higher (6 of which are the Touros and Vias) while 7 have requirements between 2.7-2.8. Of the ones with a requirement, some aren't "hard" requirements in that people with lower GPAs do, albeit rarely, get looked at and accepted.
 
Shotapp said:
PrincessAna hasn't been accepted to med school yet...read the first post of the thread.
Click to expand...
Oh ok! I just thought her last comment made it sound like it. But maybe one day she/others can tell more of these stories too!
 
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