32 Residents Canned

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exPCM

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St. Vincent's Hospital Manhattan began laying off more than 300 workers on Friday and asked other employees for temporary pay cuts of 10 percent to 25 percent in an effort to stave off closing.

Hospital officials said the 300 workers who got layoff notices included 32 medical residents, managers at all levels and members of 1199 S.E.I.U., the hospital union, in jobs like dietary work, housekeeping and transporting.

The hospital, in Greenwich Village, also asked all workers for pay cuts lasting 120 days. Executives and doctors in leadership positions were asked to take cuts of 25 percent, and others were asked to take 20 percent cuts, officials said.

Unionized workers, including nurses, were asked to take cuts of 10 percent to 15 percent and were voting on whether to accept them, administrators said.

The cutbacks were part of a restructuring effort to keep the 160-year-old hospital, which is $700 million in debt and losing $5 million to $10 million a month, from having to close. Employees said that by agreeing to cutbacks they were also trying to show good faith to the state and the banks that have lent the hospital money to keep it going for about a month during the restructuring.

Bruce Gershner, 53, a registered nurse, said he had voted to accept a 15 percent cut because he would rather have 85 percent of his salary than zero, and he wanted to show that workers cared about keeping the hospital open.

"This is like my second home," Mr. Gershner said Friday outside the hospital. "People are in tears at this point. You're just on pins and needles waiting to find out what happens next."

He said that he walked around the neighborhood and saw people he helped treat, and that it was crushing to think that not only his job but also a neighborhood institution with a lot of history behind it could be lost.

Supervisors gave letters to workers who were being laid off.

Joseph Gerard, 38, of Crown Heights, Brooklyn, a technician and air-conditioning engineer at the hospital for the past 18 months, got one such envelope. "They gave me a letter," he said, adding that he felt bad not only for himself, but also because "there's a lot of history here."

Arthur Y. Webb, the hospital's chief of operations, confirmed Friday that six programs — sleep medicine, endocrinology, pathology, ophthalmology, renal medicine and neurology — would be closed by the end of the month. But he said the hospital's well-known H.I.V., psychiatric and community clinics were fully operating, reversing a decision to stop taking new patients.

The hospital, which is the last Catholic general hospital in New York City, has been looking for a partner to bolster its financial position and keep it open.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/13/nyregion/13vincents.html
Comment: I bet some of the final year residents/fellows already had jobs lined up. Now it would seem to appear that there are going to be programs that are closing 4 months shy of graduation - OUCH! I feel bad for these poor residents/fellows.
 
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if acgme matched, then those residents have automatic spots elsewhere, right?

St. Vincent’s Hospital Manhattan began laying off more than 300 workers on Friday and asked other employees for temporary pay cuts of 10 percent to 25 percent in an effort to stave off closing.

Hospital officials said the 300 workers who got layoff notices included 32 medical residents, managers at all levels and members of 1199 S.E.I.U., the hospital union, in jobs like dietary work, housekeeping and transporting.

The hospital, in Greenwich Village, also asked all workers for pay cuts lasting 120 days. Executives and doctors in leadership positions were asked to take cuts of 25 percent, and others were asked to take 20 percent cuts, officials said.

Unionized workers, including nurses, were asked to take cuts of 10 percent to 15 percent and were voting on whether to accept them, administrators said.

The cutbacks were part of a restructuring effort to keep the 160-year-old hospital, which is $700 million in debt and losing $5 million to $10 million a month, from having to close. Employees said that by agreeing to cutbacks they were also trying to show good faith to the state and the banks that have lent the hospital money to keep it going for about a month during the restructuring.

Bruce Gershner, 53, a registered nurse, said he had voted to accept a 15 percent cut because he would rather have 85 percent of his salary than zero, and he wanted to show that workers cared about keeping the hospital open.

“This is like my second home,” Mr. Gershner said Friday outside the hospital. “People are in tears at this point. You’re just on pins and needles waiting to find out what happens next.”

He said that he walked around the neighborhood and saw people he helped treat, and that it was crushing to think that not only his job but also a neighborhood institution with a lot of history behind it could be lost.

Supervisors gave letters to workers who were being laid off.

Joseph Gerard, 38, of Crown Heights, Brooklyn, a technician and air-conditioning engineer at the hospital for the past 18 months, got one such envelope. “They gave me a letter,” he said, adding that he felt bad not only for himself, but also because “there’s a lot of history here.”

Arthur Y. Webb, the hospital’s chief of operations, confirmed Friday that six programs — sleep medicine, endocrinology, pathology, ophthalmology, renal medicine and neurology — would be closed by the end of the month. But he said the hospital’s well-known H.I.V., psychiatric and community clinics were fully operating, reversing a decision to stop taking new patients.

The hospital, which is the last Catholic general hospital in New York City, has been looking for a partner to bolster its financial position and keep it open.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/13/nyregion/13vincents.html
Comment: I bet some of the final year residents/fellows already had jobs lined up. Now it would seem to appear that there are going to be programs that are closing 4 months shy of graduation - OUCH! I feel bad for these poor residents/fellows.
 
Laying off residents? Do our contracts permit this if our performance has been satisfactory?
 
Laying off residents? Do our contracts permit this if our performance has been satisfactory?

Hospital went caput.

I'd wager alot of those residents were outside-the-match fmgs, now that I think about it. Dropping them = no acgme guarantee, no more work visas. What a disaster!
 
Hospital went caput.

I'd wager alot of those residents were outside-the-match fmgs, now that I think about it. Dropping them = no acgme guarantee, no more work visas. What a disaster!

Well, the hospital is in deep, deep financial trouble, but it's still operating. I guess I didn't think that residents could be "laid off" in the setting of satisfactory performance, though.
 
Well, the hospital is in deep, deep financial trouble, but it's still operating. I guess I didn't think that residents could be "laid off" in the setting of satisfactory performance, though.

If the department that the residents work for closes I think that's enough. I don't know how it affects the ACGME guarantee.

Arthur Y. Webb, the hospital’s chief of operations, confirmed Friday that six programs — sleep medicine, endocrinology, pathology, ophthalmology, renal medicine and neurology — would be closed by the end of the month.
 
I thought that the ACGME guidelines stipulate that the program must HELP their residents find another program....but there is nothing that states that a resident is guaranteed to find another program.

Residency Closure/Reduction: The Sponsoring Institution must have a written policy that addresses a reduction in size or closure of a residency program. The policy must specify

- that if the Sponsoring Institution intends to reduce the size of an ACGME-accredited program or close a residency program, the Sponsoring Institution must inform the residents as early as possible; and,

- that in the event of such a reduction or closure, the Sponsoring Institution must either allow residents already in the program to complete their education or assist the residents in enrolling in an ACGME-accredited program in which they can continue their education.
 
I thought that the ACGME guidelines stipulate that the program must HELP their residents find another program....but there is nothing that states that a resident is guaranteed to find another program.

The article only mentions the residents in passing, so we don't really know what they are or aren't doing to help them find new spots elsewhere. It's possible (though maybe not likely) that most of the residents already have new spots lined up already.
 
I thought that the ACGME guidelines stipulate that the program must HELP their residents find another program....but there is nothing that states that a resident is guaranteed to find another program.

That is correct (at least as long as I've understood it, and having NO resident friends live through the Katrina situation).

Programs are not obligated or required to find you positions if they close although they are required to assist. How much assistance is enough per ACGME is unknown.
 
Some of the resident from St John's and Mary Immaculate in Queens joined St.Vincent's when those hospitals closed, now these guys have to move again. What a rough ride.The hospital will help and their acgme funding goes with them so it can only help another hospital to accept these residents.Nothing is guaranteed but its a safe bet to say these residents will be taken care of.
 
The cutbacks were part of a restructuring effort to keep the 160-year-old hospital, which is $700 million in debt and losing $5 million to $10 million a month, from having to close. Employees said that by agreeing to cutbacks they were also trying to show good faith to the state and the banks that have lent the hospital money to keep it going for about a month during the restructuring.

Holy God
 
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Matching (or signing a pre match) does not guarantee you a training spot in the situation that your program closes.

Neither does a contract. If the program closes, it's like a bankruptcy. Your spot simply evaporates.

As mentioned, you become an "orphan resident". Your ACGME funding follows you, so if you can find a program to take you, you come with funding. It's unclear (to me) whether your funding continues just for the rest of the year or for your whole training.

The ACGME/RRC is usually pretty flexible with training spots, and is willing to increase a program's cap to accomodate displaced residents.

That's the good news.

Unfortunately, programs like this that are closing are often community programs, and residents can have trouble getting new spots. No one wants to inherit someone else's problem. Programs have taken residents like this, then had them fail the boards and "count against" them in their board pass rates, for example.
 
When I was a resident we had a couple of fellowship programs that took on fellows (internal med) from New Orleans for a few months/remainder of a year. After that they went back to their program (which presumably reopened at that time). That's a bit different situation though.
I think there was a hospital in LA (?Drew) that closed, or closed some programs, a few years ago. Would think it will be easier for residents in this situation to find a new job than if they had been fired/let go from a residency...at least in this situation they were (presumably) blameless. However, I agree if the residents are in a program not known to be strong, and/or have had problems like low USMLE scores, etc. then it could be hard for them to find a new spot quickly. Aren't 1/4 of all residency programs in NYC (or some crazy number like that?).
 
When I was a resident we had a couple of fellowship programs that took on fellows (internal med) from New Orleans for a few months/remainder of a year. After that they went back to their program (which presumably reopened at that time). That's a bit different situation though.
I think there was a hospital in LA (?Drew) that closed, or closed some programs, a few years ago. Would think it will be easier for residents in this situation to find a new job than if they had been fired/let go from a residency...at least in this situation they were (presumably) blameless. However, I agree if the residents are in a program not known to be strong, and/or have had problems like low USMLE scores, etc. then it could be hard for them to find a new spot quickly. Aren't 1/4 of all residency programs in NYC (or some crazy number like that?).

The residents are comprised of FMG's USIMG's and some U.S and D.O students.My guess is in terms of scores the U.S and D.O students scored the worst.The FMG's usually have great scores but have visa issues and no U.S experience and the Carib grad needs to have good scores as well to get a decent IM program in the city.That being said these residents shouldn't have a problem getting another spot.
 
I am a resident at St. Vincent’s. My program is not closing (at least not yet), but I had colleagues in the other departments who were sent to other programs.
I don’t know everyone who got laid off, but my sense is that the program directors at the hospital have been pretty proactive in helping “the orphan residents” to find jobs in other residencies. My own program director held a meeting after the news of the proposed restructuring broke, and he told us that if our department should be closed he would definitely help us to make other arrangements to complete our training.
Despite all of this hospital’s problems (and it has many, many problems), it has been a great place to work and to train. There is no place in the world quite like it. I rotated through so many hospitals as a med student, and there was nothing like the camaraderie I have experienced here.
The West Village is going to lose something very special if St. Vincent’s is shuttered. I hope something can be done to save it or at least salvage parts of it. Anyway, it was a privilege for me to have worked here for as long as I have.
 
I am a resident at St. Vincent’s. My program is not closing (at least not yet), but I had colleagues in the other departments who were sent to other programs.
I don’t know everyone who got laid off, but my sense is that the program directors at the hospital have been pretty proactive in helping “the orphan residents” to find jobs in other residencies. My own program director held a meeting after the news of the proposed restructuring broke, and he told us that if our department should be closed he would definitely help us to make other arrangements to complete our training.
Despite all of this hospital’s problems (and it has many, many problems), it has been a great place to work and to train. There is no place in the world quite like it. I rotated through so many hospitals as a med student, and there was nothing like the camaraderie I have experienced here.
The West Village is going to lose something very special if St. Vincent’s is shuttered. I hope something can be done to save it or at least salvage parts of it. Anyway, it was a privilege for me to have worked here for as long as I have.

Are any of the resident's raking in on this closure and ending up is really nice programs???
 
Yeah, sure. You know how it is. At most programs there’s usually someone who decides that medicine is not for them, or that they chose the wrong specialty. They decide to do something else, and they depart from the program and leave an empty spot. Empty spots result in lost federal grant money for those programs. There is an economic incentive for programs to fill them. “Orphans” are a good source to fill those spots. They were presumably doing well where they matched and would have stayed where they were if it were not for circumstances beyond their control. It’s not like hiring someone who transferred out of their current program for unclear reasons. And as far as board scores are concerned, by the time you’re done with internship, you’ve taken Step III, and you either did well on it or you didn’t. You either have your license or you don’t. But either way, there’s no mystery to it. The orphan is a known quantity and a safe bet.
Of course there has to be a reasonably good fit between the “orphan” and the accepting program. And, just like The Match, the less tied down you are to geography the more options you have. But in general it’s always a trade up. I mean, it can’t possibly be a trade down, given the hospital’s current outlook.
The residents will be fine. Unfortunately, the 63,000 patients who pass through our ER will suffer – not to mention the house staff at Bellevue and St. Luke’s who will have to absorb them.
 
fascinating. I guarantee there is more of this to come.

Now, obviously residents were not the cause of a 700 mil deficit...how could the management let the situation get that far out of hand?

I would think unions and such take a heavy portion of the blame, but there has to be some fairly extreme mismanagement there.

Anyone have a link to the true story behind this??
 
I forget the details but they were already in the red when they decided to acquire some "asset" ( don't remember what-- a series of outpatient clinics, something abandoned by the Catholic Church, something) that immediately put then $450 million more in debt. Things got worse from there... and then the Continuum deal fell apart.
 
Well, the psych program closed down, along with IM and surgery. My friend applied to the psych program, and he got an e-mail from the PD that they're pulling out of the match, which he forwarded to me.
 
fascinating. I guarantee there is more of this to come.

Now, obviously residents were not the cause of a 700 mil deficit...how could the management let the situation get that far out of hand?

I would think unions and such take a heavy portion of the blame, but there has to be some fairly extreme mismanagement there.

Anyone have a link to the true story behind this??

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/03/nyregion/03vincents.html
 
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