34 too old?

[purplepower]

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I agree with the above. Medical school is hard enough if you are 22, with no responsibilities. Medicine has so many opportunities though. Be an RN or PA, or like I said before, a pharmacist. Following that dream to be a doc may crash and burn and you certainly don't want to leave your kids high and dry. Not to mention, when are you going to find time to go to the soccer games and the PTA meetings? There are more important things in life than having the dream career/dream job, that probably won't be that dreamy anyway.

 

[EdLongshanks]

I agree with the above. Medical school is hard enough if you are 22, with no responsibilities. Medicine has so many opportunities though. Be an RN or PA, or like I said before, a pharmacist. Following that dream to be a doc may crash and burn and you certainly don't want to leave your kids high and dry. Not to mention, when are you going to find time to go to the soccer games and the PTA meetings? There are more important things in life than having the dream career/dream job, that probably won't be that dreamy anyway.

Family and children aren't a reason to avoid Med School. My family is thrilled with the thought of Daddy being a doctor. The residents and med students that I have talked to said that there is time for soccer games and school plays. I know multiple single mothers who made it through (if they had other family support to help them).

Money is not a reason to not go. The income of a doctor is going to cover your student loans.

Lack of scholastic achievement IS a reason to not go. Med School is for good students. People who cannot memorize vast amounts of material are not going to make it through. Since medical schools - unlike undergrad schools - are judged on their graduation rates, they don't admit students who haven't proved their scholastic abilities. If you can't show a history of taking many hard classes on a tough schedule with good grades, then you shouldn't wait for the adcomm to tell you no. You should either judge yourself or go about proving yourself before applying.

 

[dotdash]

Family and children aren't a reason to avoid Med School. Money is not a reason to not go.

Both of these, however, are reasons to take a step back and consider carefully. The combination should really make someone pause and do some hard thinking.

You seem optimistic about your family, Edlongshanks. Do you mind my asking how old are you and what kind of support you have for your family (spouse, etc.)?

 

[EdLongshanks]

Both of these, however, are reasons to take a step back and consider carefully. The combination should really make someone pause and do some hard thinking.

You seem optimistic about your family, Edlongshanks. Do you mind my asking how old are you and what kind of support you have for your family (spouse, etc.)?

I'm 46, I have three children, all still at home, my youngest is 17. If all goes as planned, he'll be starting college the same month that I start med school. My wife and children and I are all each other's best friends.

Most of the residents and doctors that I talk to had much younger children while they were in medical school. Becoming a doctor is a long process, and few people want to delay having children until they are finished with it. Money is an issue for everyone except the born rich. I spoke to one resident who told stories about sleeping in a car and eating canned food for days at a time while traveling to interviews.

Life isn't a parade for anyone. We all have things to overcome. A medical education involves some sweat. I consider balancing money and family with med school to be par for the course.

On the other hand. Just because someone has a dream doesn't mean that they have the mental capability of fulfilling that dream. This ain't the special olympics. (Politically correct beating may now commence)

 

[MexicanDr]

And that's from a parent and survivor of a late career change to medicine.

If you did it, why cant he do it??

There are many many many current medical students in his situation, if there is a will, there is a way, so please relax!

He will not be the first one to go to medical school in his situation, nor the last one.

To the OP, if you have the dream, follow it and play hard for it! Its YOUR dream and like I said, many people in your situation are currently in medical school.

Don't let 10 more years go by and then think that you should had done it, no dude, if you want it, go for it! Like I said, there are many ways to do it!

 

[ShyRem]

I will graduate med school the day I turn 43. It's possible. I figured it this way: in 4 years I was going to be four years older whether I went to med school or not, so I was NOT going to be the one to say no to my dream. And here I am. 😀

 

[denner]

If you did it, why cant he do it??

There are many many many current medical students in his situation, if there is a will, there is a way, so please relax!

He will not be the first one to go to medical school in his situation, nor the last one.

To the OP, if you have the dream, follow it and play hard for it! Its YOUR dream and like I said, many people in your situation are currently in medical school.

Don't let 10 more years go by and then think that you should had done it, no dude, if you want it, go for it! Like I said, there are many ways to do it!

He never said he couldn't do it. All Coastie is trying to do is give some solid advice from someone who has actually been in this position, and has experienced this firsthand.

If you want to cover your ears and say "lalalalala I can't hear you," go right ahead, but I'd recommend actually listening to his advice and digesting it for a bit before dismissing it just because others have made it through similar situations.

L2D is also making some very good points in that it's good to have a goal to shoot for, but you have to be able to accept failure. I mean really, think about what kind of competition this guy will be facing. Not only do you probably have to be in the top ~5(?)% of the population to get into medical school, but you have to be in the top ~5% of those who make it into medical school to get into a specialty as competitive as plastics.

These guys have lived through this and are trying to impart some wisdom that could help this guy avoid heartache and trouble in the near future.

It's great to have a dream, but this is a dream that can ruin relationships, finances, and possibly his sanity if he doesn't go into it with the right state of mind. To begin this pursuit without taking those things into account while being cheered on by most of sdn would be doing him a great disservice.

(cue the "pre-dental students don't know what they're talking about" post)

 

[MexicanDr]

On the other hand. Just because someone has a dream doesn't mean that they have the mental capability of fulfilling that dream. This ain't the special olympics.

If the dream exists you need perseverance and determination to succeed. The dream alone will not take you there, but if you work hard and determine, for sure you will get there. This is not a matter of intelligence, but more of hard work and how bad you really want it.

 

[Coastie]

Family and children aren't a reason to avoid Med School.

Sure they are. You may have responsibilities which cannot be fulfilled at the same time as medical school can.

My family is thrilled with the thought of Daddy being a doctor.

That's great, but not really the point. They have no idea what it means for Daddy to be a medical student, intern, resident or attending.

The residents and med students that I have talked to said that there is time for soccer games and school plays.

Dude, seriously? First of all, this is highly dependent on specialty and individual hospitals. Second of all, with all of the studying you'll need to do during medical school and residency, plus the workload of clinical years of med school and then the real workload of intern/residency, you won't have much, if any, time for soccer games and school plays.

Maybe a bedtime story and occasional dinner at home, if you're lucky.

I know multiple single mothers who made it through (if they had other family support to help them).

OK, maybe you do. This doesn't change the reality of things.

Money is not a reason to not go. The income of a doctor is going to cover your student loans.

Not exactly true. Cost of attendance is skyrocketing, and with that, you'll be looking at tons of private loans above what sallie mae can provide. Do you have zero debt now? What's your income? What about time lost? What if you can't make it physically or mentally? You mentioned you're 46. Did you know that healthy, athletic people in their 20's have difficulty with the physical work that is medical school and residency? There are no free passes.

Lack of scholastic achievement IS a reason to not go. Med School is for good students. People who cannot memorize vast amounts of material are not going to make it through. Since medical schools - unlike undergrad schools - are judged on their graduation rates, they don't admit students who haven't proved their scholastic abilities. If you can't show a history of taking many hard classes on a tough schedule with good grades, then you shouldn't wait for the adcomm to tell you no. You should either judge yourself or go about proving yourself before applying.

Very true. On the same token, having scholastic achievement is not a sole reason to go either. I don't know what you do for a living, but at 46 years old, with kids, and with a not entirely realistic picture of what you're facing, I'm telling you it's better to avoid med school. If you love patients, go the PA route. You'll be much much happier...

 

[Coastie]

If you did it, why cant he do it??

Why can he do it?

There are many many many current medical students in his situation, if there is a will, there is a way, so please relax!

He will not be the first one to go to medical school in his situation, nor the last one.

How do you know anyone has, and how do you know anyone will again? The OP needs constructive responses, not this kind of nonsense.

To the OP, if you have the dream, follow it and play hard for it! Its YOUR dream and like I said, many people in your situation are currently in medical school.

OP, selfishly pursuing dreams at the expense of one's other responsibilities is a poor way to live life. Maybe you can balance it out, but it doesn't sound like it. Besides, the dream you have of abdominoplasty and breast lifts sounds good now, but wait til you're manually disimpacting a 85 year old nursing home resident 4 months into your 3rd year of medical school. Then remember that you'll be at least 9 years away from boobs and tummies at that point, and that will be at least 8 years from now (undergrad plus admissions to med school). You have a great job, and big responsibilities. If you really want plastic surg, get a degree, go the PA route, and work in a plastics office.

Don't let 10 more years go by and then think that you should had done it, no dude, if you want it, go for it! Like I said, there are many ways to do it!

It'll be nearly 20 before he is an attending. You think a newby 56 year old plastic surgeon attending is going to be rolling around in money and honeys? The new plastics guys that are good looking and businessmen start out with low-ball burns patients for 5-10 years, as it is. Seriously, OP, I hope you're still reading this thread.

 

[Coastie]

If the dream exists you need perseverance and determination to succeed. The dream alone will not take you there, but if you work hard and determine, for sure you will get there. This is not a matter of intelligence, but more of hard work and how bad you really want it.

Sadly, you're wrong. Perseverance and determination are not all you need. It is a matter of intelligence to make it through medical school, and even more so for plastics, which is the top of the heap.

You can work hard, and really really want to be an NFL player, really bad, but if you don't have skills, you're outta luck. Same for medical school, same for plastics.

This guy has a great gig. If he wants medicine, at this stage in life, he should do a shorter plan, like PA school. BTW, did you see what his "dream" was?

 

[purplepower]

I'm 46, I have three children, all still at home, my youngest is 17. If all goes as planned, he'll be starting college the same month that I start med school. My wife and children and I are all each other's best friends.


Exactly, your soccer games and school plays are over. Don't worry about it, but if the OP is paying child support his aren't.

I hope your wife is very understanding in addition to being your best friend because she will be seeing very little of you and will have to shoulder most of the home stuff for a very long time. I speak this as a P1 pharmacy student who's husband has to do this, and I know med. school is tougher than pharmacy school, and I'm studying all the time.

Just go into it with your eyes open.

 

[agirl]

..................

why can he do it?







How do you know anyone has, and how do you know anyone will again? The op needs constructive responses, not this kind of nonsense.



Op, selfishly pursuing dreams at the expense of one's other responsibilities is a poor way to live life. Maybe you can balance it out, but it doesn't sound like it. Besides, the dream you have of abdominoplasty and breast lifts sounds good now, but wait til you're manually disimpacting a 85 year old nursing home resident 4 months into your 3rd year of medical school. Then remember that you'll be at least 9 years away from boobs and tummies at that point, and that will be at least 8 years from now (undergrad plus admissions to med school). You have a great job, and big responsibilities. If you really want plastic surg, get a degree, go the pa route, and work in a plastics office.




It'll be nearly 20 before he is an attending. You think a newby 56 year old plastic surgeon attending is going to be rolling around in money and honeys? The new plastics guys that are good looking and businessmen start out with low-ball burns patients for 5-10 years, as it is. Seriously, op, i hope you're still reading this thread.

 

[orbiter104]

Hi all,

Just found this forum and I am looking for some advise. I am 34 soon to be 35 and have always loved the medical field. I graduated HS in 1992 and did not attend college after graduation instead decided to work. I think this was a first mistake. I am now almost 35 and have decided to attend college, am I just dreaming and missed the boat? I now have two kids 8 and 2 and work in the IT field as a Network engineer. I am looking into the medical field as I have always loved the field (Plastic Surgery ) just thought that I could not do it due to age and guess what time just keeps on going. Do you think that its too late to start college at my age? I have never attended college nor did I take my SAT when in HS. How should I start? Is this even a possibility at my age?

Hey there Rane,

I've been a network engineer my entire career (CCNP, CCSP, ITIL, ISO20K, and so forth) for over 10 years! Glad to see another data dink around here.

To determine my interest in medicine I hit the ground to do some grunt work and see if it is really what I want to commit to. This includes finding a balance to my current commitments, full time work, grad school, medical research, military, clinical volunteering, shadowing, etc. It is going to be very stressful with time and finances but the key thing is to find a good balance to manage it all (to also include your family of course). Some of my clinical work was also with 2nd-4th year residents that had families and their suggestions/experiences are going to be very valuable to you once you get to that point. Volunteer in a clinical setting to get a taste of what you're going to experience and learn from those that are currently there or have been there. Although you're interested in plastics you will learn the many specialties in medicine and your interest may change while you're in premed/med school and your exposure as a volunteer will help in determining where you could possibly fit in. I don't have any kids nor am I married. The challenges vary but the commitment will be just as demanding.

 

[orbiter104]

Sadly, you're wrong. Perseverance and determination are not all you need. It is a matter of intelligence to make it through medical school, and even more so for plastics, which is the top of the heap.

You can work hard, and really really want to be an NFL player, really bad, but if you don't have skills, you're outta luck. Same for medical school, same for plastics.

This guy has a great gig. If he wants medicine, at this stage in life, he should do a shorter plan, like PA school. BTW, did you see what his "dream" was?

As a Senior Network Engineer I get paid more than most experienced PA's, without the hours, and it is a great gig. I've looked at and considered other areas of medicine as well but it will feel like taking a big step backwards and possibly remaining there the rest of your career (not a good feeling). It is a new field, however, career changes are done also for personal satisfaction and advancement. I'm in similar shoes and if I crash and burn for some reason I still have a great career to fall back on. I hope admissions interviewers won't take offense to that (the perception of bailing out on the field of medicine and questioning my dedication).

 

[EdLongshanks]

. I don't know what you do for a living, but at 46 years old, with kids, and with a not entirely realistic picture of what you're facing, I'm telling you it's better to avoid med school. If you love patients, go the PA route. You'll be much much happier...

I'm not the original poster - so I wasn't asking about my particular situation. My decision is already made and I have already done the homework to know what is involved in it.

I appreciate that in your position as a resident you are at the height of the tension involved in medical training and so can see the difficulties ahead for me - but this is kind of like a mother at the height of labor screaming at another woman --- DON'T EVER HAVE A BABY - IT AIN'T WORTH IT!!!!!

I'll take my chances.

 

[efex101]

This poster is truly delusional if he thinks plastics is so "attanaible" whatever. First get INTO medical school, then ACE all your classes in medical school, THEN ACE step 1/2 and THEN apply to "plastics" and then HOPE you get in. Wanting something and getting something are two completely different things.

 

[RANE]

If you did it, why cant he do it??

There are many many many current medical students in his situation, if there is a will, there is a way, so please relax!

He will not be the first one to go to medical school in his situation, nor the last one.

To the OP, if you have the dream, follow it and play hard for it! Its YOUR dream and like I said, many people in your situation are currently in medical school.

Don't let 10 more years go by and then think that you should had done it, no dude, if you want it, go for it! Like I said, there are many ways to do it!

Thanks for the words, I cant beleive all the negative comments on this post but to each his own I guess. I am going for it and like i said I WILL make it. Maybe I wont get palstic maybe I will but that is not my only desire. I will be happy just the same being an ER doc. I will still be on the boards when I get accepted 🙂. As someone previously stated I am not the first nor last to be in the same situation. I am not doing this for the money, I make 6 figures now and don't have a college degree but I don't see myself doing my job at 50 not happy anyways. I will use this as my fallback plan or plan B.

 

[Coastie]

Thanks for the words, I cant beleive all the negative comments on this post but to each his own I guess. I am going for it and like i said I WILL make it. Maybe I wont get palstic maybe I will but that is not my only desire. I will be happy just the same being an ER doc. I will still be on the boards when I get accepted 🙂. As someone previously stated I am not the first nor last to be in the same situation. I am not doing this for the money, I make 6 figures now and don't have a college degree but I don't see myself doing my job at 50 not happy anyways. I will use this as my fallback plan or plan B.

Truth and constructive criticism = negative comments?

You make 6 figures at your age without a college degree, and a) want to leave it for medicine and b) worry about child support?

🤣🤣🤣

 

[RANE]

Truth and constructive criticism = negative comments?

You make 6 figures at your age without a college degree, and a) want to leave it for medicine and b) worry about child support?

🤣🤣🤣

Constructive criticism? From who you? Yes I make 6 figures without a college degree, and really don't work all that hard for it don't believe me? Want me to scan my paycheck for you? But you know what I am great at what I do hence the reason I make what I make and working in the NYC helps a little as well. Or are you just a little jealous that you don't and are in this for the money? I am not in this for the money, the money is just a perk. I can stay in the field and probably get a few more certs and add more cash to my base but again I am tired of this field and following a dream. I have been a network Engineer and in the IT field for 10 years with the same company. Worried about child support? Of course I am I know that once I get to medical school I wont be working, my kids don't live with me they live with their mother and she makes enough money to maintain their current lifestyle but by law i have to pay child support I am not a dead beat dad so I will just have to figure out how I will work this out once I get to medical school. But I thank you for the "constructive criticism" everyone is entitled to an opinion

 

[QofQuimica]

Folks, let's please keep these posts on a professional level, if not a constructive one.

OP, you do not have to justify your career decision to anyone on SDN, and I doubt anyone here would argue that going back to school is not your decision to make. However, there are a lot of experienced people on this forum who have taken the time to provide you with information concerning the difficulties you will face by going back, along with potential alternative options. You would be wise to at least seriously consider what they have to say, rather than dismissing it off the bat as "negative comments." Even if you ultimately choose to disregard their advice, you will still be better off in the long run for having thought about these issues now. Best of luck to you. 🙂

 

[emilygirl]

I am not of the opinion that 34 is too old. Generally I am of the opinion that no age is too old if you want something really. I think if this is your dream you should do it. I hope things are like you have expected them. I wish you all the best and hope you will be able to fulfill your dream.

 

[EdLongshanks]

I can stay in the field and probably get a few more certs and add more cash to my base but again I am tired of this field and following a dream.

I understand, I'm in a similar situation. I'm not at 6 figures, but then I'm in Oklahoma, not NY.

Like you, I didn't finish my degree back in the 80's. It's hard for other people to understand, but back then you didn't need a degree. They were begging for techs and programmers to solve their problems. They didn't care if you had missed the class on programming the IBM 38-series mainframe in assembler language.

When we got into this field we were changing things. If we didn't fix this problem, no one would. Inaccurate bills would go out, or the programs would fail on Jan 1st, 2000 (Yes, there were Y2K bugs - just not as big of as the media made them).

I'm also with you on the realization that I'm uninterested in doing this the rest of my life. Having dragged myself out of poverty and conquered the mountain of the American Dream, I see another mountain to climb.

34 is plenty young for this. Many of us are much older. At your age, you can even go the military route and go to school with little or no debt at all while paying your child support.

Now, having said that. This is not an easy thing to do. It requires not only a "Man of La Mancha" type of enthusiasm, but also a dedication that goes on when the excitement is gone. It also requires an ability to explain to doctors and adcoms why you want to make this change. This board is not the only place that you will hear "Are you out of your deleted mind?" and "Why now?" We need to be able to communicate our desire and display our ability and dedication.

Right now, you are at the "display your dedication" stage. You'll be slogging through several hard classes in the next couple of years. In these years, you have to keep studying and completing labs and homework even though the Monday Night Football game is exciting. That's not easy to do when the excitement of dreaming of plastic surgery has faded.

 

[Valvool]

I'm a second year, I'm 32, and I have a spouse and four children. It's hard. It's really hard, I never imagined it would be this hard. The sheer volume of what we must memorize, and this year, the way the tests keep coming at us, one after another, no time to even catch our breath. First year was easy, I attended all the kids' doctors' appts, school events, etc. This year is different, just in order to survive, to squeeze out passing grades, I have to be gone a lot. I can only make about half to two-thirds of their things. I heard third year is also very time consuming, for a different reason, but ultimately with the same result--I'll be gone a lot.

On the other hand, I wouldn't trade my position for anyone else's. I wanted this, bad. This is my dream, and I'm getting to do it. There's no feeling like it.

 

[RANE]

Congrats Valvool, I know its going to be hard if it wasn't everyone would be doing it. But since its your passion you don't mind busting your ass for it at least I don't.

 

[dotdash]

RANE, I think sometimes the discussion sounds different to the OP than to the discussants. From your perspective, you know what your real situation is like and who you are and what you are capable of. We only know the few sentences in your post. So what the rest of us are discussing is something that may be very different from what you are or what you see -- something more abstract. I hope you won't take it personally. Good luck to you.

 

[Nasrudin]

Worried about child support? Of course I am I know that once I get to medical school I wont be working, my kids don't live with me they live with their mother and she makes enough money to maintain their current lifestyle but by law i have to pay child support I am not a dead beat dad so I will just have to figure out how I will work this out once I get to medical school. But I thank you for the "constructive criticism" everyone is entitled to an opinion

I'm the same age. And on the precipice of launching myself into it pending results from interviews.

I had a long talk with a naval officer on the interview trail. Me, you, him, and a lot of us are all weighted down by concerns for overhead and family and such.

I had heard a lot of negative things about the military scholarship. But he changed my mind. Now if I was you. Sorry I didn't read the whole thread. but if I was single and had to pay child support and all that. Then no doubt I'd take the military route. I'm not so sure because my wife and the military life are like oil and water. Maybe I'd be a lil bit of a square peg in a round whole anyway but the financing the stipend and the benefits for your children are compelling. With no debt. And the option of matching military or civilian residency. that's some eye-catching stuff.

give it a thought or two.

I've been investigating the underserved tract scholarship or whatever they call it two. Just didn't seem to add up though. Ozark trailer livin aint my my bag man.

Not sure about your intentions for slick specialty though. Anyway there are ways to take the overhead off if you need to do it is all I'm sayin.

 

[Tutmos]

...you won't have much, if any, time for soccer games and school plays.

Maybe a bedtime story and occasional dinner at home, if you're lucky.

Once kids are 8 or 9 years old they don't want to be around Mom & Dad. They want to hang out with peers. I'm assuming you're kind of young Coastie because you're apparently not aware that the older you get the shorter a year seems. By my age, 38, a year zips by like nothing. 4 years is no big deal.

...Not exactly true. Cost of attendance is skyrocketing, and with that, you'll be looking at tons of private loans above what sallie mae can provide.

...and wages will continue to climb to keep pace. There is already a shortage of physicians so it's pretty unlikely the structure will be made more restrictive. I'd say it's probably about as bad as it's going to get right now. What mechanism is used to shift that balance back the other way I couldn't tell you. It's a simple fact of life the country needs X number of physicians and until they accept MD's trained in Mexico and China the process will maintain some balance of accessibility.

...What if you can't make it physically or mentally? You mentioned you're 46. Did you know that healthy, athletic people in their 20's have difficulty with the physical work that is medical school and residency? There are no free passes.

I thought this bit was pretty funny. A friend of mine that is an Attending and medical school faculty member commented to me how lazy many of the medical students are now and how they don't have much of a work ethic. As an employer I have to agree with him. 20 somethings tend to be the least reliable, least able to maintain focus group. Employees in their 30's and 40's tend to be far better workers, get a lot more done and don't mind having to work extra, whereas the 20 somethings can't go 20 minutes without texting or checking facebook. It's like a generation with ADD.

There is no physical barrier for a person based on age. Older people don't mind a lot of work, they don't expect entertainment time as an entitlement.

I will agree with you on the specialization issue though. It's no different than expecting to go to Harvard Med before you've managed a single undergrad course. If you can go into it knowing you'll be happy if you end up as a primary care provider then I think you're in good shape.

At each step my only concern has been with the next step in the process, don't get ahead of yourself with plans of specific specialties. Think, "I need a 3.7+ gpa" and worry about that alone. When it comes time for the MCAT worry about that. When it comes time to write your essay and put an application together worry about that. Take each step as it comes and realize if you blow any of them it may be the end of that road.

 

[dotdash]

Once kids are 8 or 9 years old they don't want to be around Mom & Dad. They want to hang out with peers.

There is no physical barrier for a person based on age. Older people don't mind a lot of work, they don't expect entertainment time as an entitlement.

Wow. I have to disagree with both these statements. 6 to 12 is the "sweet spot" for kids -- they're smart, inventive, funny, and they *do* want to be with you. Don't miss out on these great ages. And your teenagers need you to be around, whether or not they think they do.

Re the physical barriers. Older people may be used to working harder, but there are declines in sheer stamina. Maybe not by 38, but certainly by 48. It is just harder to maintain a level of intellectual and/or physical rigor that used to be effortless. There are well-documented studies to this effect, some showing effects even as early as ones 30s. So watch out! 🙂

 

[EdLongshanks]

Re the physical barriers. Older people may be used to working harder, but there are declines in sheer stamina. Maybe not by 38, but certainly by 48. It is just harder to maintain a level of intellectual and/or physical rigor that used to be effortless. There are well-documented studies to this effect, some showing effects even as early as ones 30s. So watch out! 🙂

I agree that my work stamina is less than it was a few years ago (we'll not discuss the use of the word "stamina" as it is mostly referred to in spam emails and tv commercials, since that is irrelevant).

But there is different kind of stamina needed in different circumstances. I can no longer work a 12 hour day putting asphalt shingles on a 115 degree roof. On the other hand, I frequently get up at 6:30 in the morning and start doing physical therapy with my arthritic son - work all day - go to school at night - and finally take a break at 7:30 PM. Doesn't seem to bother me that much. I can see myself going from patient room to patient room, examing patients, getting family history, etc, without breaking down.

I already spend weeks on call in which I rarely get more than 2 or 3 hours of interrupted sleep. It's unpleasant, but I don't notice myself falling apart or starting to fall apart.

Mental stamina - which is mostly what a doctor needs, isn't that different at 46 than it was at 23. In fact, it might be a little better, since I know how to pace myself now.

 

[RANE]

I am the same way I am 35 wake up at 4:30am go to the gym until 6am, make breakfast go to work until 5:30p then school until 8-9 then home work until 12:00a or so. I average about 4 hours sleep a night on the weekdays and about 6 on the weekends and honestly I function perfectly find. I cant sleep all that much I wake up tired and with a headache lol

 

[njbmd]

Hi all,

Just found this forum and I am looking for some advise. I am 34 soon to be 35 and have always loved the medical field.

How can you "love" the medical field when you have never actually experienced other than from the outside looking in? A more realistic attitude would be that you have always had more than a passing interest in possibly entering the medical field.

I graduated HS in 1992 and did not attend college after graduation instead decided to work. I think this was a first mistake. I am now almost 35 and have decided to attend college, am I just dreaming and missed the boat? I now have two kids 8 and 2 and work in the IT field as a Network engineer. I am looking into the medical field as I have always loved the field (Plastic Surgery ) just thought that I could not do it due to age and guess what time just keeps on going.

As others have said, concentrate on first getting yourself into a position of being able to apply to medical school rather than looking at a particular specialty. There are loads of medical students around (read people who are already IN medical school, that loved the idea of surgery until they actually had to do it. That "loved" feeling quickly evaporates when the trauma pager goes off at 3:30 AM and you just hit the rack at 3:15AM.

Again, merely being enthralled with a field based on what you see on the telly or read in books is not actually useful in terms of choosing a medical specialty. You may find that you won't have many choices of specialty based on your medical school performance.

Do you think that its too late to start college at my age? I have never attended college nor did I take my SAT when in HS. How should I start? Is this even a possibility at my age?

There are 95-year-olds that are starting college (I don't think that they have medicine in mind) and thus you can "start college" at any age. You may want to stop by your local public/college library and get some info/books on the path into medical school. That's going to be your first point.

After that, figure out what you would have to rearrange, in terms of your life, to accomplish your goal. As an adult, only you can decide if your "dreams" are worth the sacrifice of time and income in the pursuit of a medical degree + residency. Again, you can't actually KNOW what you will or will not be suited for in terms of specialty until you get through third year (post USMLE).

In terms of possibility, anything and everything is possible but is it probably or even practical for you to have a solid shot at successfully getting a bachelor's degree with a 3.7+ uGPA; the getting into medical school and doing extremely well (4 years) + 5 clinical years of surgical residency (may have to tack on 2 research years).

 

[MexicanDr]

You can work hard, and really really want to be an NFL player, really bad, but if you don't have skills, you're outta luck. Same for medical school, same for plastics.

I am not debating the Plastics issue..The main thing right here is to get INTO Medical School.

So are you telling me that if you DO NOT have this special intelligence, high IQ then you wont make it through medical school? I am sorry but I have to disagree completely with you.

People succeed in medical school differently, all have different studying techniques, methods and ways of learning. having excellent grades is not going to make you the best physician.

Skills are learned, it is not something you are born with. I am not saying it will be easy, it wont, it will be hard, especially in his situation. But, if its his dream and many people have done it, he should go for it.

One thing is Medical School and Plastics is a completely different story, step by step here.

Eddie

 

[EdLongshanks]

I am not debating the Plastics issue..The main thing right here is to get INTO Medical School.

So are you telling me that if you DO NOT have this special intelligence, high IQ then you wont make it through medical school? I am sorry but I have to disagree completely with you.

People succeed in medical school differently, all have different studying techniques, methods and ways of learning. having excellent grades is not going to make you the best physician.

Skills are learned, it is not something you are born with. I am not saying it will be easy, it wont, it will be hard, especially in his situation. But, if its his dream and many people have done it, he should go for it.

One thing is Medical School and Plastics is a completely different story, step by step here.

Eddie

To be a doctor one has to be highly intelligent. That's the 5-foot high jump. That doesn't mean that, among those who are doctors, a higher IQ translates into being a better doctor. But it is the minimum requirement. No one wants someone treating them who can't read and get the gist of most articles in the New England Journal of Medicine.

 

[Rxbound]

I have an idea...go to pharmacy school! 3 or 4 years and your out making over 100K and you don't have to worry about a residency (very hard on family life!) I'm 40, a wife and mother, and in my first year. It is pretty grueling but doable.

Good luck whatever you do. Definitely don't give up on school, you only live once.

The thing is, pharmacy is not an appropriate substitute if you really want to practice medicine...

 

[RANE]

I want to be a Doctor not a Pharmacist.

 

[BennieBlanco]

There are 95-year-olds that are starting college (I don't think that they have medicine in mind) and thus you can "start college" at any age.

True. I am 95, but I do have medicine in mind.

I will be arranging my residency/funeral around the same time.

 

[jl lin]

Happiness! Finally! Here’s a thread that is predominantly supportive of someone's honest inquiry about applying to medical school after the age of 25!

Only the individual can decide if the mission, desire, commitment, discipline, and mental and physical acumen and other support structures are in place.

The ageism I've seen at some threads at SDN is, well, beyond appalling.

What? No one is reading studies on the difference between biological age and chronological age? (For the sake of future patients, I truly hope some folks learn to adjust this bias.)

No one is willing to consider that such NT students will have loads to offer in medicine?

Some are just too quick to hang the crepes?

Some folks will be discouraging to you no matter what? Do you know how many younger people—many that got the guts to go back for med school later in life were discouraged from pursuing medicine at a younger age?

I don’t sugar coat anything for anyone. Never have. But you have to objectively look at all the requirements and long-terms costs and commitments and then decide for yourself.

Personally, I think it is a good thing to consult a higher authority on such things as well. It’s good enough for John Hopkins peds neurosurgeon Ben Carson, and it works for me.

 

[jl lin]

And Ed, I have worked with some doctors, nurses, allied health folks, lawyers, administrators with many letters behind their names that were, how is it said, "not the sharpest knives in the drawer."

When you are out there and practice with folks you learn that it is the man or person that makes the suit and not really the other way around. One of the biggest things I've seen is an true open spirit to learn--true learning require humility.

And I have seen more errors and lack of excellence in care (and that is being euphemistic) from stubborn pride and out and out lack of care--yes--carelessness--than anything else.

There are many different kinds of IQ tests. And guess what? There are many different types of intelligence.

Do you need a strong commitment to developing mental acumen? Sure. Does one's intelligence need to be well above average for any one particular IQ test? No. And let's face it. Unless you are engaging in some big time academic and testing dishonesty, if you are less than average IQ, generally speaking, the probability is low that you will have a competitive enough GPA or MCAT score--and you probably will not be able to communicate well on the MS application.

You know what makes people excellent in my view? A sense of mission, values, strong commitment, persistence, and really strong integrity as well as compassion. I have always said, if you really care enough about what you are doing with patients, you will make it your business to care and learn and apply as much as you can. People that say they are compassionate but don't have the power to back it up by getting and staying in the know for their sake of their patients are only kidding themselves. And trust me, ultimately their patients know.

In most of medicine, the biggest thing other than that kind of committed compassion that makes the greatest difference for the patients is a little something called vigilance. Seriously. I have worked and seen it over and over.

BTW, a fair number of docs I know find the NEJM a pretty boring read. (To me it depends on what I'm looking for in any particular journal. And I am sure many people may find the Wall Street Journal boring; but I enjoy reading it. *shurg*)
I am not saying there is never anything good in NEJM, but many have told me they find it quite dry. They usually spend more time in the journals of their particular specialties and interests.

And that's a funny thing too; b/c when people are truly interested in something, they tend to be more active readers and thus become better students.

 

[dragonfly99]

Although I agree that Coastie is laying on the black crepe paper a bit too thick, he and law2doc made some EXCELLENT points. And this is from someone who has been there, done that (med school and residency).

The OP's dream of plastic surgery is very likely unrealistic, simply because very, very few med students (of any age) make it into that field. It is somewhat akin to becoming a pro athlete. And you can't just will yourself to be able to do it. If that were so, there would be many more dermatologists, orthopedists and plastic surgeons, and fewer family docs and psychiatrists. Even ER, which the OP mentioned, isn't that easy of a field to get into. If the OP truly really has a hankering to do plastic surgery and not much else, then I agree that getting a PA degree or RN could be better and faster. I know he has shot that idea down already, but it's actually a pretty good one.

I don't disbelieve that the OP is bright...you don't usually get paid 100k to do anything unless you are good at it. However, he needs to realize that sometimes the idea of doing something is more attractive than ACTUALLY doing it. There's lots more people who think they want to be docs than who actually would LIKE being a doc. There's a ****load of paperwork involved, sometimes abusive and angry family members and patients, and more work and studying than you would ever believe.

I have to disagree with the person above who said that stamina/work ability doesn't decline somewhat with age. I'm 34 now and I would say that I don't have quite as good an energy level as when I was 25. It's not really that bad right now, but I honestly couldn't imaging going through certain residencies, like surgery, at 45 or so. It's honestly very very physically demanding to take 30 hour calls every 3rd or 4th day. It just is. You don't have time to eat enough, a lot of the time you don't have time to urinate when you need to, sometimes you get zero sleep. And then you could back and do it all again...and again...and again. There are specialties that are better, but if I had 2 kids, I'd do some serious thinking before committing to an MD or DO degree. It's not that it CAN'T be done, as obviously people have done it. However, whether YOU SHOULD DO IT or YOU CAN DO IT or YOU WOULD LIKE IT has yet to be determined.

In short, I think the OP is putting the cart way in front of the horse. First, find yourself a good university, enroll in a few courses, see what happens after a semester or two. Consider cutting back your work hours a bit so that you have time to study. See if you like biology and chemistry enough that medicine still attracts you. Later you can get your feet wet with some volunteer work in a hospital or clinic. You're getting way ahead of yourself.

 

[EdLongshanks]

Do you need a strong commitment to developing mental acumen? Sure. Does one's intelligence need to be well above average for any one particular IQ test? No. And let's face it. Unless you are engaging in some big time academic and testing dishonesty, if you are less than average IQ, generally speaking, the probability is low that you will have a competitive enough GPA or MCAT score--and you probably will not be able to communicate well on the MS application.
.....
BTW, a fair number of docs I know find the NEJM a pretty boring read. (To me it depends on what I'm looking for in any particular journal. And I am sure many people may find the Wall Street Journal boring; but I enjoy reading it. *shurg*)
....

I don't think that we disagree very much. There is a difference between finding the NEJM a boring read and finding it an incomprehensible one. There is a difference between liking the WSJ and being able to understand it. No one that I have ever met thought that the most intelligent doctor was the best doctor. I certainly don't think so. But I do think, and I would be surprised if you did not agree with me, that someone who lacked the basic ability ( not the desire - the ability) to understand technical literature would be likely to make a good doctor. Even if there were one or two simpletons who could do so, I doubt that a American Medical Association populated by dullards would be likely to increase the longevity of Americans.

There is a good purpose for the path into Med School to be so arduous. It weeds out not only those who lack the mental ability to be doctors, but it also purges those who lack the DESIRE that you so eloquently express.

 

[jl lin]

Although I agree that Coastie is laying on the black crepe paper a bit too thick, he and law2doc made some EXCELLENT points. And this is from someone who has been there, done that (med school and residency).

The OP's dream of plastic surgery is very likely unrealistic, simply because very, very few med students (of any age) make it into that field. It is somewhat akin to becoming a pro athlete. And you can't just will yourself to be able to do it. If that were so, there would be many more dermatologists, orthopedists and plastic surgeons, and fewer family docs and psychiatrists. Even ER, which the OP mentioned, isn't that easy of a field to get into. If the OP truly really has a hankering to do plastic surgery and not much else, then I agree that getting a PA degree or RN could be better and faster. I know he has shot that idea down already, but it's actually a pretty good one.

I don't disbelieve that the OP is bright...you don't usually get paid 100k to do anything unless you are good at it. However, he needs to realize that sometimes the idea of doing something is more attractive than ACTUALLY doing it. There's lots more people who think they want to be docs than who actually would LIKE being a doc. There's a ****load of paperwork involved, sometimes abusive and angry family members and patients, and more work and studying than you would ever believe.

I have to disagree with the person above who said that stamina/work ability doesn't decline somewhat with age. I'm 34 now and I would say that I don't have quite as good an energy level as when I was 25. It's not really that bad right now, but I honestly couldn't imaging going through certain residencies, like surgery, at 45 or so. It's honestly very very physically demanding to take 30 hour calls every 3rd or 4th day. It just is. You don't have time to eat enough, a lot of the time you don't have time to urinate when you need to, sometimes you get zero sleep. And then you could back and do it all again...and again...and again. There are specialties that are better, but if I had 2 kids, I'd do some serious thinking before committing to an MD or DO degree. It's not that it CAN'T be done, as obviously people have done it. However, whether YOU SHOULD DO IT or YOU CAN DO IT or YOU WOULD LIKE IT has yet to be determined.

In short, I think the OP is putting the cart way in front of the horse. First, find yourself a good university, enroll in a few courses, see what happens after a semester or two. Consider cutting back your work hours a bit so that you have time to study. See if you like biology and chemistry enough that medicine still attracts you. Later you can get your feet wet with some volunteer work in a hospital or clinic. You're getting way ahead of yourself.

Just can't argue w/ much of what you share here. Personally, if I were 25 and just out of med school, no, I probably would not seek surgery. But I am also looking at it now from the other side of being a post-op CT recovery nurse. Everything you say about the process of becoming a surgeon and then functioning regularly as one is true. It is beyond grueling from what I've seen.

Even if you are very young, bright, athletic, disciplined, the whole nine yards, surgery IMHO has a lot to do with endless major demands, skill sets that some people are just more apt to be better at--hand-eye coordination and adeptness--being able to even appreciate things, even with technology, that are not always easy to see. The ability to visualize things in the sense of 3 D is important too it seems. But the dexterity factor--well, honestly, some people are amazing at it and others are OK. I learned to place a lot of value in not only the learning aspects of it; but whether or not someone has that special touch--and this is especially true with the neonates and peds cases. Yes, beyond any of that, the training--real-life education of it is insanely demanding and draining well beyond the normal course of things.

I have friends that switched out of surgical residencies. One actually got into an ortho slot; but he wasn't able to deal with the whole package--and all the guff and being treated as a lowly first year, etc. I don't know what he thought it would be like, but he ended up moving out of it into another residency, and then another after that.

I truly do think you have to be gifted and then you can build on that, but also you have to have a lot of fire in your belly about it, be able to take a lot stress and grief—long working hours standing and focusing in the OR and then all they pre-op working up, planning, and post-op/recovery follow-up and accountability--dealing with many surprising and inevitable complications. It really isn't for everyone.

I usually don't take a lot of needless guff from people; but surgical residents and fellows have a special place in my heart most of the time; b/c I have been the fly on the wall that watched them day in and out, night in and night out. I've seen them covering a CT unit filled with 15 fresh post-ops and a couple of leftovers, and then having to be up cracking chests, moving people back into the OR, dealing with IABPs and ECMO circuits, the dumping CTs and wild rhythms that don’t always respond to meds or different infusions or pacing--and it just doesn't end. I have major respect for what they do and what they go through.

I don't hold anyone as God; but I give them a lot of patience and respect; b/c I know they haven't seen their families for days, and if they can get enough shut-eye w/o interruption they may have a chance of really getting up to the plate in the OR and still make it through to sign-off. I really favor the surgeons that have the surgical talent and skill but also can manage their patients well post-operatively. When they have that balance, it’s a beautiful thing. And when they take the time to teach and work with others as a team, they are gems. But these aren't the surgeons or the residents/fellows you often hear about—or some nurses talk about. I think that some nurses just haven’t had enough experience to stand back and see what is really going on with them—and they don’t understand that it can take surgeons some time before they feel they can trust the recovering nurse/s with their patients--especially in the units.

The whole road to becoming a physician of any flavor is arduous beyond words. I can only say that people have to find their own purpose, know what they value, and then find ways to appreciate the paths on the journey.

 

[jl lin]

I don't think that we disagree very much. There is a difference between finding the NEJM a boring read and finding it an incomprehensible one. There is a difference between liking the WSJ and being able to understand it. No one that I have ever met thought that the most intelligent doctor was the best doctor. I certainly don't think so. But I do think, and I would be surprised if you did not agree with me, that someone who lacked the basic ability ( not the desire - the ability) to understand technical literature would be likely to make a good doctor. Even if there were one or two simpletons who could do so, I doubt that a American Medical Association populated by dullards would be likely to increase the longevity of Americans.

There is a good purpose for the path into Med School to be so arduous. It weeds out not only those who lack the mental ability to be doctors, but it also purges those who lack the DESIRE that you so eloquently express.

I do see your perspective; but unless I missed something, I don't see where there is this forgone conclusion that this person doesn't have the intellectual apptitude for medical school. I mean he is truly JUST starting out if he has never been to college or even taken the SAT, etc.

He's asking questions. He is excited; as you know, it is both exhilarating and scary. So, yes, there is that bit of cart before the horse thing going on to some degree; but he is not saying he is inflexible about what to pursue post med school. No doubt, it's a long hard road to hoe, and he is just getting started. OK. Understandable.
Given time he may come to appreciate your 'heads up' to him.

Edison went through who knows how many permutations before he "perfected" the incandescent light bulb. No one know how many times he failed for sure, but it's a given that it was a heck of a lot. So honestly I don't even agree with the whole concept that "failure is not an option." In fact, failing isn't a horrible thing. It can be a path to growth and further success. And beyond any external success, it can humble you such that you can truly become a person of stronger character.

No, I don't think you have to be a "genius" to become a physician, though you should be bright and a very good, hardworking student.

I also don't agree w/ the general assumption that we all just begin to fall apart physically after 25. We have some say in that many times in terms of how we choose to live, and if we commit to wellness.

I don't know how eloquently anyone is expressing any degree of desire regarding becoming a physician. And yes time mixed with experience is the vessle through which we are all tested.

But why not simply give the benefit of insight and guidance and then let the individual 'work his or her own crucible,' so to speak.

 

[EdLongshanks]

I do see your perspective; but unless I missed something, I don't see where there is this forgone conclusion that this person doesn't have the intellectual apptitude for medical school.

I'm sorry if I gave the impression that the OP is intellectually deficient. I don't know anything about him. The conversation is only here because I was defending the position that he COULD go to med school because neither age nor money are insurmountable obstacles - only intellectual deficiency is insurmountable. Someone took offense at that, and I then defended the position that doctors must be in the upper percentiles of intelligence. I don't know if this applies to the OP or not.

 

[jl lin]

Gotcha. No worries. As I said, there are many encouraging responses in this thread, and you seem as though your are simply trying to be one of them while also putting some balance and perspective out there as well.

If I may ask, though this is OT, have you completed all prereqs and taken MCAT yet? I mean the OP should take some time to consider the many steps on the path, as I think effex tried to share.

It is true that there are so many steps and hoops to jump through, at times it does seem overwhelming.

I love hearing about how the journey is going or has gone for people. Maybe I haven't been here long enough and looked around enough, but I would love to see more journaling of the process by folks. That's one thing I like about the Old Pre Meds site. People update their steps and experiences in the process--the very long journey. And some of those folks have some great real life stories. If more people read stories of people that have really been through the process, some of them with incredible struggles, I think the perennial question of "Am I too old?" and all the baseless discouragement (not reasonable balancing or realities) would pretty much be silenced.

As I said elsewhere, even in my young 20's as a RN, I saw that you just can't dismiss someone on anything necessarily just b/c they are past a certain age. I mean the way some people think, folks over 30 should just lay back and sip the hemlock. 🙂 LOL

I especially distress over people feeling like somehow life is over when you are 40. It's just getting started! (For me, I felt like a kid my whole life--even through hardship and struggles--though at times you do feel they can age you somewhat.) And that's not just in other ways. Consistent daily exercise is the real fountain of youth. Sure there are other things, but that is what I've found to be a huge part of it.

Chronological age should not be viewed as some comorbidity. And truly every patient/person is an individual. If I have learned ANYTHING in my nursing career, it is that reality. What works for some folks will not work for others. Critical care has taught me that there is a lot of individual tweaking that goes on--and like it or not--some times that reality SERIOUSLY limits evidence-based practice that is too rigid.

 

[pdlaw2000]

Well I was here over a year ago, planning on abandoning the law to take a shot at the MD, but then a rather large case was presented to me that would take up a lot of time, therefore I decided to forgo the MD dream to try to land one more big payday before closing up shop.

Happy to report that the payday is in sight, and I am back for more abuse. I am turning 39 next month, and hope to be back in the classroom in January. But now I look at what could possibly become of the medical profession if the Gov decides to get into the business of health insurance, and its a little scary.

 

[Coastie]

You have to be pretty intelligent to handle medical school. Sorry.

I am not debating the Plastics issue..The main thing right here is to get INTO Medical School.

So are you telling me that if you DO NOT have this special intelligence, high IQ then you wont make it through medical school? I am sorry but I have to disagree completely with you.

People succeed in medical school differently, all have different studying techniques, methods and ways of learning. having excellent grades is not going to make you the best physician.

Skills are learned, it is not something you are born with. I am not saying it will be easy, it wont, it will be hard, especially in his situation. But, if its his dream and many people have done it, he should go for it.

One thing is Medical School and Plastics is a completely different story, step by step here.

Eddie

 

[Coastie]

Ageism.



The beeper knows no age, no creed, color, or race. It only knows how to beep. It'll be waiting for you.

Happiness! Finally! Here’s a thread that is predominantly supportive of someone's honest inquiry about applying to medical school after the age of 25!

Only the individual can decide if the mission, desire, commitment, discipline, and mental and physical acumen and other support structures are in place.

The ageism I've seen at some threads at SDN is, well, beyond appalling.

What? No one is reading studies on the difference between biological age and chronological age? (For the sake of future patients, I truly hope some folks learn to adjust this bias.)

No one is willing to consider that such NT students will have loads to offer in medicine?

Some are just too quick to hang the crepes?

Some folks will be discouraging to you no matter what? Do you know how many younger people—many that got the guts to go back for med school later in life were discouraged from pursuing medicine at a younger age?

I don’t sugar coat anything for anyone. Never have. But you have to objectively look at all the requirements and long-terms costs and commitments and then decide for yourself.

Personally, I think it is a good thing to consult a higher authority on such things as well. It’s good enough for John Hopkins peds neurosurgeon Ben Carson, and it works for me.

 

[dotdash]

The ageism I've seen at some threads at SDN is, well, beyond appalling.

I find this a very interesting statement, because if I had to characterize the responses RANE has gotten, they have been more positive from younger people and less positive from older people who have experience doing exactly what he is doing (possible exception of ed longshanks). So "ageism" might not be the right term. Maybe it's "informed caution"?

I too believe that life is long. You can have 2,3,4 careers if you want and at 40, you still have 25-35 working years ahead of you. But you might as well know where the mountains are before you start out on your journal.

 

[EdLongshanks]

I've just got to love that term "ageism" it's so... so.... FUN.

You see, my entire life I've had to deal with being in the oppressive majority. I'm a white male - which already makes me an oppressor. I'm a professional white-collar worker -- that makes me bourgeoisie. And I'm even conservative and that makes me.... well, a bad person.

But now, Yes, yes. I get to be an oppressed minority. Whoopie. Oh Glory. Hallelu-marx. I have a claim on everybody else.

Now when somebody refers to a "middle-age spread" I can say "You are Generalizing" and call them names "Ageist" and still claim to be the injured party.

Because, you know, no one gains weight, or loses strength, or turns gray, or has a greater chance of disease when they get older.

Wow, This being in the oppressed minority thing really feels good. I'm going to apply for my AARP card right now.