3rd year is a joke

[TheCat]

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Ok so I got my eval from a rotation today and here is why I think 3rd year is a joke. So this rotation I got done, I absolutely hated, I left early every day, I did know work, I didnt get to know any attendings, I was lazy, didnt stay for call when supposed-basically I just sucked-so I get my eval-It is semi-glowing, definetly positive comments that I knew were untrue even from people I didnt work with-basically doing nothing got me a great eval.
Compared to my previous rotation that I was really interested in, busted my ass like crazy, stayed 13 hour days each day, did q3 call, were really close to the attendings-basically busted ass-and pretty much got the same good eval as I did today in something I did **** for work in.

3rd year is so subjective and such b.s-it makes you feel like it isnt worth it to bust ass cause atleast in my case it usually doesnt pay off since you usually get similar evals when you do nothing-I actually got my best evals in rotations I skipped out early and did no work-maybe less is more with me-maybe I piss people off so limiting contact improves my eval.
Anyway just thought it was weird-I honestly went in today thinking I was going to fail-I literally worked half days for 6 weeks, leaving early every day cause I was lazy-but nope a glowing eval, go figure.

3rd year is nuts and bs

 

[yanky5]

Thanks for the advice. In my third year, I am so emulating you!

 

[DHMO]

Ok so I got my eval from a rotation today and here is why I think 3rd year is a joke. So this rotation I got done, I absolutely hated, I left early every day, I did know work, I didnt get to know any attendings, I was lazy, didnt stay for call when supposed-basically I just sucked-so I get my eval-It is semi-glowing, definetly positive comments that I knew were untrue even from people I didnt work with-basically doing nothing got me a great eval.
Compared to my previous rotation that I was really interested in, busted my ass like crazy, stayed 13 hour days each day, did q3 call, were really close to the attendings-basically busted ass-and pretty much got the same good eval as I did today in something I did **** for work in.

3rd year is so subjective and such b.s-it makes you feel like it isnt worth it to bust ass cause atleast in my case it usually doesnt pay off since you usually get similar evals when you do nothing-I actually got my best evals in rotations I skipped out early and did no work-maybe less is more with me-maybe I piss people off so limiting contact improves my eval.
Anyway just thought it was weird-I honestly went in today thinking I was going to fail-I literally worked half days for 6 weeks, leaving early every day cause I was lazy-but nope a glowing eval, go figure.

3rd year is nuts and bs

Agree completely. It seems like 3rd year grades (for evals and oral exams) depend on who is evaluating you, not how you perform. IMHO, grades need to be based on shelf scores and OSCE's only. Subjective comments should go in your dean's letter, but not figure into your grade.

 

[GregsAnatomy]

Agree completely. It seems like 3rd year grades (for evals and oral exams) depend on who is evaluating you, not how you perform. IMHO, grades need to be based on shelf scores and OSCE's only. Subjective comments should go in your dean's letter, but not figure into your grade.

Even shelf scores are a joke at our school. We have a bank of questions from which all of the shelf questions come, so pretty much everyone gets the >90% needed for Pass with Honors.

 

[Sammich81]

My school went to shelf-only grades on the surgery rotation for awhile, and it actually decreased the amount of learning that happened in the OR/wards. If your evaluation doesn't count for anything, then there is a huge disincentive to get involved in any clinical responsibilities, because the time spent studying gets you a much better grade. I had the same experience--on OBGYN, I got so pissed off and bitter at some of my residents that I spent more time reading than interacting with them and as a result, aced the shelf and got a reasonably decent eval given my attitude. At the same time, if all you're graded on is the shelf, then 3rd year is just glorified 2nd year...which most people wouldn't want either.

 

[DHMO]

Even shelf scores are a joke at our school. We have a bank of questions from which all of the shelf questions come, so pretty much everyone gets the >90% needed for Pass with Honors.

Wow, that does make the shelf a joke. I thought the NBME was supposed to protect their questions very well. How does your school have access to these questions?

My school went to shelf-only grades on the surgery rotation for awhile, and it actually decreased the amount of learning that happened in the OR/wards. If your evaluation doesn't count for anything, then there is a huge disincentive to get involved in any clinical responsibilities, because the time spent studying gets you a much better grade. I had the same experience--on OBGYN, I got so pissed off and bitter at some of my residents that I spent more time reading than interacting with them and as a result, aced the shelf and got a reasonably decent eval given my attitude. At the same time, if all you're graded on is the shelf, then 3rd year is just glorified 2nd year...which most people wouldn't want either.

Your point is well taken. At my school, the evals usually count for about 50% of the grade, which seems ridiculous to me because you can work your ass off, have the attending tell you that you are doing a fantastic job, and give 3s and 4s on your eval, which makes it extremely difficult to get honors. With a different attending, however, you could completely slack off and get all 5s on your eval.

 

[raptor5]

Wow, that does make the shelf a joke. I thought the NBME was supposed to protect their questions very well. How does your school have access to these questions?

There are only a few DO schools that use the NBME shelf exams. I guess NSU is not one of them.

 

[GregsAnatomy]

Wow, that does make the shelf a joke. I thought the NBME was supposed to protect their questions very well. How does your school have access to these questions?

Our required reading for each rotation is the National Medical Series, and all of the questions come directly from the chapter or review questions in the books.

 

[Non-Trad DO]

3rd year and 4th year evals are all about the attendings and residents that you work with which is why its good to have friends in the class ahead of you. I got lucky like that. As far as I know its always been like this.
At LECOM we didn't take the NBME shelf, we got the LECOM special questions that, I hear, even some attendings had a difficult time answering correctly. They were written a lot like the NBOME board q's, poorly. 🙂

 

[footcramp]

Our required reading for each rotation is the National Medical Series, and all of the questions come directly from the chapter or review questions in the books.

what a joke

 

[Samoa]

Our required reading for each rotation is the National Medical Series, and all of the questions come directly from the chapter or review questions in the books.

that's not a shelf, then. that's a departmental exam. "Shelf" is the slang term for the NBME Subject Exam.

 

[moviefreak]

i hate third year 😡

 

[tcom200901]

3rd year and 4th year evals are all about the attendings and residents that you work with which is why its good to have friends in the class ahead of you. I got lucky like that. As far as I know its always been like this.
At LECOM we didn't take the NBME shelf, we got the LECOM special questions that, I hear, even some attendings had a difficult time answering correctly. They were written a lot like the NBOME board q's, poorly. 🙂

Here at TCOM, we take the NBME Shelf exams. The third years say these exams are quite hard. Are there different types or kinds of shelf exams?
What do I have to look forward too?

tcom200901

 

[Medical123]

Third year is very frustrating. Half the time, you don't where you stand. Your attendings/residents tell you that you are doing a great job and don't have any concerns or recommendations for improving your performance when you solicit feedback. Then, you and your friends get your clinical evaluations which have more negative comments than you can count.

This happened to two of my classmates and I on a surgery rotation. I passed, one guy got a low pass, and the third one failed the rotation. We were all reamed out for not knowing anything about the patients on our service one morning. Why didn't we know anything? Two of our classmates failed to show up (one overslept and the other called in sick) and we did not know that this was going to happen until the last minute. Therefore, half the patients had not been seen and the rest of us, who were scrambling to see the patients that belonged to the other students, caught all kinds of crap about not seeing them, not knowing about their conditions, etc. It was not a good experience. We were all cussed out for being "lazy, disorganized, and stupid" and one of my charts ended up being thrown down the hall because I had not had the time to write a progress note.

As for the grades, the girl who called in sick got Honors for the rotation, though she was sick at least once a week, often refused to go into the OR for fear of losing Rolex or Louis Vuitton bag 🙄 , and griped all of the time about how she hated surgery. The guy who overslept failed though he did eventually show up and usually worked very hard.

That rotation was certainly a joke! I felt like I worked my butt off for nothing.

 

[AmaurosisFugax]

Two of our classmates failed to show up (one overslept and the other called in sick) and we did not know that this was going to happen until the last minute. Therefore, half the patients had not been seen and the rest of us, who were scrambling to see the patients that belonged to the other students, caught all kinds of crap about not seeing them, not knowing about their conditions, etc. It was not a good experience. We were all cussed out for being "lazy, disorganized, and stupid" and one of my charts ended up being thrown down the hall because I had not had the time to write a progress note.

My first 3rd year rotation is surgery and I'm starting in 3 weeks. This is NOT the sort of thing that I want to be reading! Sounds like boot camp or something 🙁

 

[Medical123]

My first 3rd year rotation is surgery and I'm starting in 3 weeks. This is NOT the sort of thing that I want to be reading! Sounds like boot camp or something 🙁

Calm down....just because I had experience doesn't mean that you will. A lot of people at my school had a great experience on surgery, which accounts for the fact that a large percentage of my class is hoping to match in surgery or one of its subspecialties next year. I just happened to be placed on a team where the attending is notorious for being a jerk at times.

You will discover during your third year that your experience on the rotations is highly resident and attending dependent. You will hear a lot of things about various residents, attendings, and rotations next year--some of it will be good, some of it will be bad. Don't take any of it to heart until you see it for yourself. For instance, I had heard horrible things about the Medicine rotation at one of our teaching hospitals. Naturally, I found myself assigned to this particular site. I went into this rotation with the attitude that I was going to hate it. I had a great experience with my residents and attendings and I am probably going to go into Internal Medicine.

Just try to do to do the best you can and don't let the jerks get to you! Most of my third year rotations have gone very well. During the past 11 months, I will honestly say that I only ran into two residents and one attending that I would truly consider to be total buttholes! Since attendings and residents rotate amongst the various teams every month, I probably have dealt with 75 different residents and attendings this year. Most are very good and want to help us learn.