3rd-year student curious about OMFS residency

[fc3slover]

Hello,

I'm a dental student currently in 3rd year with somewhat of a passion to become an OMFS. I have few questions about residency programs and would be very pleased to hear your opinions about residency programs available in US.

First of all, l believe that OMFS residency is divided into 2 types: 4 year and 6 year. Is the 6 year program really worth it? I've seen other people in this forum describing 4 year program as being generally "sucky" compared to 6 year programs. However, I really want to avoid the 2 years of medical school pain-in-the-arse if possible because 1) I need to pay for the tuition (I'm not so sure about this) 2) Going through 2 years of med school will be too much of a stress as well.

What do you guys think? Is 6 years program worth the time and effort and money over 4 year program?



Secondly, although I go to US dental school, I have canadian citizenship without green card. I am quite worried if my alien status will greatly hinder me in terms of applying for OMFS residency? How greatly disadvantaged are Canadian students compared to American students in terms of applying for residency in US? Can anyone give me their 2c about this?



Thank you guys...

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[armorshell]

1) Deciding whether to do a 4 or 6 year depends on what you want out of your training. There are benefits and disadvantages to each and you just need to explore the two options to figure out what you want. Doing a 6 year might open up more options to you if you're interested in doing hospital/academic OMFS or interested in pursuing additional medical residencies or OMFS fellowships. Additionally, you'll receive a structured medical education. Additionally, but erroneously in my opinion, many people view dual-degree OMFS as superior.

If none of that seems like it's worth 2 extra years to you, stick with 4 years. There's many awesome 4 year programs out there.

2. Being a Canadian citizen will bring problems at some programs. Contact programs you're interested in applying to and discuss your situation with the admin assistant. I guarantee they have dealt with it many times before.

3. FC3S are the greatest automobiles ever made.

 

[fc3slover]

1) Deciding whether to do a 4 or 6 year depends on what you want out of your training. There are benefits and disadvantages to each and you just need to explore the two options to figure out what you want. Doing a 6 year might open up more options to you if you're interested in doing hospital/academic OMFS or interested in pursuing additional medical residencies or OMFS fellowships. Additionally, you'll receive a structured medical education. Additionally, but erroneously in my opinion, many people view dual-degree OMFS as superior.

If none of that seems like it's worth 2 extra years to you, stick with 4 years. There's many awesome 4 year programs out there.

2. Being a Canadian citizen will bring problems at some programs. Contact programs you're interested in applying to and discuss your situation with the admin assistant. I guarantee they have dealt with it many times before.

3. FC3S are the greatest automobiles ever made.

Thank you armorshell for your inputs.
I think I will just stick with 4 year program since I know that 2 years of medical school will be a pain-in-the-arse. Are there any prestigious 4 year programs that you could recommend me?

 

[drhobie7]

First of all, l believe that OMFS residency is divided into 2 types: 4 year and 6 year. Is the 6 year program really worth it? I've seen other people in this forum describing 4 year program as being generally "sucky" compared to 6 year programs. However, I really want to avoid the 2 years of medical school pain-in-the-arse if possible because 1) I need to pay for the tuition (I'm not so sure about this) 2) Going through 2 years of med school will be too much of a stress as well.

6 vs 4 is a personal choice. For me, I wanted to have a solid medical education and never regret not doing it. I applied to both and made my decision a week before rank list was due. Many of the strongest programs in the country are 4 year programs. Anyone who thinks a 4 year program is inferior to a 6 year is completely mistaken. Oh yeah, med school is definitely not stressful. I can see how it would be if I was competing with other students for a high step 1 score or great clerkship evaluations. But I'm not.
It's great. I just do my thing, learn, and don't care what people think.

Secondly, although I go to US dental school, I have canadian citizenship without green card. I am quite worried if my alien status will greatly hinder me in terms of applying for OMFS residency? How greatly disadvantaged are Canadian students compared to American students in terms of applying for residency in US? Can anyone give me their 2c about this?

Being a non-greencard holder may make it tough to do a 6 year program. Not sure. Some 6 year programs are limited based on immigration status. Don't know the details, but sounds like it doesn't really matter in your case since you're more interested in the 4 year. FYI, Emory takes a bunch of Canadians into their 4 year program, which is stellar.

 

[fc3slover]

6 vs 4 is a personal choice. For me, I wanted to have a solid medical education and never regret not doing it. I applied to both and made my decision a week before rank list was due. Many of the strongest programs in the country are 4 year programs. Anyone who thinks a 4 year program is inferior to a 6 year is completely mistaken. Oh yeah, med school is definitely not stressful. I can see how it would be if I was competing with other students for a high step 1 score or great clerkship evaluations. But I'm not.
It's great. I just do my thing, learn, and don't care what people think.



Being a non-greencard holder may make it tough to do a 6 year program. Not sure. Some 6 year programs are limited based on immigration status. Don't know the details, but sounds like it doesn't really matter in your case since you're more interested in the 4 year. FYI, Emory takes a bunch of Canadians into their 4 year program, which is stellar.

Thank you drhobie7 for your kind input 🙂

Yes, I am quite hesitant about 4 vs 6 year program. Main reason why I veer away from 6 year program is 1. time 2. tuition 3. stress

To be really honest with you, I'm not an ambitious guy who wants to all kind of trauma-related surgeries; more of a guy wanting to do small surgeries and serving my family right. Is 4 years the way to go for me?

 

[wantchurwizzys]

1. make a decision and go with it. No one is going to slap you on the butt and say good game.

2. your writing is incredible. I just hope you don't talk like that cuz it makes you sound like a deusche and slightly fake. just be real.

the above comments are not meant to offend or shock you. Just trying to be real. best of luck!

 

[fc3slover]

2. your writing is incredible. I just hope you don't talk like that cuz it makes you sound like a deusche and slightly fake. just be real.

the above comments are not meant to offend or shock you. Just trying to be real. best of luck!

lol. I just wanted to sound serious and polite but seems like it didn't work 😀

 

[senpai]

lol. I just wanted to sound serious and polite but seems like it didn't work 😀

For me it's actually nice to read something on this forum that is coherrent... lol

I don't know why there is a stigma attached to 4 year programs...By shear volume you're more likely to get more experience in "Oral & Maxillofacial" surgery in a good 4 year program as oppose to your average 6 year program where 2-3 years are tied up in med school and 1-1.5 years in General Surgery.
Med school helps, but alot of it is very peripheral knowledge, e.g. OB-Gyn etc. that really isn't that important to being an oral surgeon.
All you need to know from that rotation as far as OMFS is concerned is summed up here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQvnZOR_oIk

No doubt there are some good things you can learn in med-school, but to be a good OMF surgeon I think most people would agree it's not necessary...Also, more debt isn't much fun either...

General surgery can be a royal waste of time depending on where you're at and who you're working with. Some places will hardly let you do anything, but still put in the crazy hours. Other places will throw you right in and let you get your hands dirty...


One last thought...The 'intern year' of many 6 year programs can be a complete waste of time, almost like nothing more than a year-long extension of your OMFS rotation in dental school.

These are all of the CONS, in my opinion of some 6 year programs, and should be taken into consideration.

PROS of a 6-year: with a combination of a good med school/general surgery experience + good training in Oral & Maxillofacial surgery you will probably come out as a more well-rounded surgeon with very comprehensive training. Possible opportunities for fellowships/academics as turtles-in-a-half-shell mentioned, if you're into that sort of thing.

 

[drhobie7]

Thank you drhobie7 for your kind input 🙂

Yes, I am quite hesitant about 4 vs 6 year program. Main reason why I veer away from 6 year program is 1. time 2. tuition 3. stress

To be really honest with you, I'm not an ambitious guy who wants to all kind of trauma-related surgeries; more of a guy wanting to do small surgeries and serving my family right. Is 4 years the way to go for me?

Well time and tuition are inescapable in almost every 6 year program. You should look for a 4 yr OMS program that matches your desires. Perhaps a place that shares trauma call with PRS and ENT, has more than 1 resident per year, and focuses on the traditional scope of practice of OMS: tmj, orthognathic, benign pathology, trauma (it has to be a sizable part of everyone's training but doesn't have to eclipse other areas), dentoalveolar. However, if you think you just would like to do dentoalveolar procedures you may want to consider a GPR or AEGD that is strong in that area. Some of those programs will give you a good amount of experience in implants and third molars and you can get an IV sedation permit too. You won't be able to make it your entire practice, but you could definitely do a lot of it. That being said, I think OMS is the greatest specialty in health care and would choose nothing else.

 

[drhobie7]

I don't know why there is a stigma attached to 4 year programs...By shear volume you're more likely to get more experience in "Oral & Maxillofacial" surgery in a good 4 year program as oppose to your average 6 year program where 2-3 years are tied up in med school and 1-1.5 years in General Surgery. Med school helps, but alot of it is very peripheral knowledge, e.g. OB-Gyn etc. that really isn't that important to being an oral surgeon.

It's interesting...I heard an OMS theorize that single degree surgeons get more referrals than dual because GPs feel alienated by the medical degree. I don't believe this though. I think general practitioners will refer to specialists they like, who treat their patients well. I'm not sure if any general dentists feel dual degree surgeons are better than single degree, but there are some patients that have this mistaken conception.

I actually really enjoyed my OB/GYN rotation. OB more than the GYN, however. Delivering babies was one of the most incredible experiences of my life. Thinking that I was the first person in the world to touch this little kid...really cool. Not much impact on OMS, but it did help me a week ago when my wife (who's 6 months pregnant) was having some issues and I was able to feel comfortable and determine what to do. I can say the same of a lot of other rotations. I happen to really enjoy learning medicine/surgery, not just stuff pertaining to OMS. I guess if you're like me you'll enjoy a 6 year program. Heck, I even dug psychiatry. For me, med school is an opportunity to learn things and do things that nobody else gets to do/see/learn. Some of it is really horrific (like when I was doing my autopsy rotation), but it's always memorable and makes for great stories.

Anyhow, an MD is definitely not necessary to be a great OMS. And yes, debt is a bummer (but if you moonlight you may not have any more debt). There are some differences in total months spent on the OMS service when you compare a 4yr to a 6yr program. But, you can't say that 4yr programs get more OMS training. It's really program specific.

The 'intern year' of many 6 year programs can be a complete waste of time, almost like nothing more than a year-long extension of your OMFS rotation in dental school.

I gotta disagree with this. Although I haven't started g.surg yet...still have 3 more months...I know it is not like a dental school OMS rotation. A lot of the time you are like a clerk for the service. However, I think you end up learning how to manage a wide range of peri-operative complications and medical issues.

 

[senpai]

I gotta disagree with this. Although I haven't started g.surg yet...still have 3 more months...I know it is not like a dental school OMS rotation. A lot of the time you are like a clerk for the service. However, I think you end up learning how to manage a wide range of peri-operative complications and medical issues.

This is good to hear as my top choice program does the traditional intern year then kick you off to medical school 🙂
Just for clarification, my comment above was referring to a conversation I had with a good friend of mine who just finished his intern year and is now starting medical school. He felt that at his particular program that the attitude was "you're going to be in medical school in a few months anyway and be gone for a few years....we'll teach you how to be a surgeon when you get back". That was his experience, however, it is comforting to hear that that has not been your experience and I pray that my intern year will be a good experience as well (if I match lol)

Also, interesting perspective on med school. I think that's a good attitude towards it...

 

[CanuckDDS]

One last thought...The 'intern year' of many 6 year programs can be a complete waste of time, almost like nothing more than a year-long extension of your OMFS rotation in dental school.

I completely disagree with this sentiment. That is not the way it was where I train. The first year resident (we don't call them interns here- they are a member of the team and treat them as such) has an incredible amount of learning, responsibility, and operating (they run the clinic) to do and it is nice to get a good base before going to med school. That way you can take call and operate during you med school years and be confident that you know what you are doing.

First year is not for the faint of heart but if you can do it you are laughing.

There is no such thing as a "waste of time" when you talk of off service rotations- I think this misses the point of learning to be a physician, not just a "drill hole,place implant" surgeon.

I guess there are lots of programs out there that don't provide equal training and that is too bad...

If you want to learn a ton do a 6 year programme, or do a good 4 year programme and learn a ton- it is a personal choice. I would look at each programme individually irrespective of whether or not they provide an MD. I chose to do an MD programme b/c I am too dense to learn everything for boards in 4 years- 😉

 

[drhobie7]

Ah, I think I was confused by senpai's post. I thought you were talking about general surgery internship, which does tend to bum a lot of residents out. In a 6 year program you are an "intern" twice. Once at the beginning of the program and once for general surgery towards the middle. My experience (UCLA) was terrific as an OMS intern. I got to do tons of IV seds, thirds, orthognathic (mostly retracting but got to cut a few le forts and fewer BSSOs), trauma (bunch of gnarly lacs, mandibles, le forts, orbital floors, ZMCs, and the occasional frontal sinus), and actually got a decent amount of operating experience as there were some times the chiefs were not available to do a case and it was me and the attending. Generally, the intern's job in the OR is pre and post-op paperwork, facilitating the start of the case, retracting, suctioning, and as a reward you get to suture at the end.

Sooooooooo, I would say OMS intern year is terrific. This is when you make huge leaps in your knowledge as the learning curve is so dang steep. General surgery intern year probably will feel like more of a grind because you may not operate as much (program specific) and have tons of floor work to do.