3x Reapplicant help

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ThirdTimesTheCharm

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Hello all,

So I have begun my application for a third time, even though I am still waitlisted at a school currently from last cycle. My first application was 2020-2021 and I received 3 interviews, 1 waitlist and 0 acceptances. This past year I had 2 interviews, one of which was super late in the cycle (the school that I am currently waitlisted at). I identified my short comings, 3.46 cGPA, 512 MCAT, only shadowing with 1 type of physician and tried to work on some of that stuff. I've been taking some online courses, added some shadowing, and got a job as a medical assistant. I know I should apply to DO schools as well but have 0 shadowing of a DO physician and obviously no recommendation letter from one. I'm a little confused as to what to do, and on top of it all my pre-medical advisor who I had known for the past 5 years left abruptly.

School list last year (will have a fair number of repeats this year:
Albany
ECU
Rosalind Franklin
Cooper Medical school of Rowan University
Drexel
EVMS
Emory
Quinnipiac
Geisinger
Buffalo
Temple
MUSC
NYMC
Stony Brook
Penn State
Vermont
Rush
Sidney Kimmel
SUNY Upstate and Downstate
Tufts
Tulane
USU
Miami
UNC-Chapel Hill
USC-Columbia
USC-Greenville
Virginia Tech
Wake Forest

To anyone who can offer any advice thank you so much!
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We will see about your WL but you need to think about your next app. You should have thought about DO as a safeguard to your last application, but that's water under the bridge now.

You don't always need a DO letter but you should talk to one so you understand what that training entails. We have a lot of DO's here you can talk to.

Please note which schools you have had interviews previously.
 
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Okay great, I will look into finding someone to talk to and prepare my DO application

My first year I interviewed at UNC, Geisinger Commonwealth and Penn State (Very late in the cycle, March).
This past year I had an interview at ECU and Rosalind Franklin (also very late in the cycle and I am on the waitlist currently).
 
For DO schools, they are fine with you providing an MD letter of rec to satisfy that requirement. You have several schools that take few OOS students, especially with your stats.

Please include information about your clinical experience, non-clinical volunteering (both completed hours and what it was for), research etc as according to the below template:

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*~*~*~*IMPORTANT: How to Format Your WAMC Thread for Optimal Results and More!!*~*~*~*

Hello, and welcome to the What Are My Chances (WAMC) forum. The purpose of this forum is to Post threads about your chances of acceptance to MD and/or DO schools Have your school list critiqued and modified by other members of SDN Determine how to strengthen your current application General...
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Clinical experience:
full-time pediatric medical assistant since October 2021 (1000 hours)
Some clinical experience through previous position as research assistant - limited due to COVID.
CHOA summer camp counselor - with kids with Spina Bifida and Epilepsy 2 weeks of sleep away camps.
Emory clinic volunteer - (150 hours, mostly guest services work.)
Shadowing - 88 hours shadowing private plastic surgeon, including time in the OR. 15 hours shadowing public ED physician. (100 hours total)

Non-clinical volunteering:
Youth basketball coach for underprivileged kids in NYC - about 50 hours so far, continuing currently. Program focuses on giving opportunity to participate in organized sports for those who can't afford it. Particularly the Asian-American community in NYC. (50 hours)

Research:
Research assistant in a neuropsychology lab focusing on post surgical outcomes in epilepsy patients. Mostly data management and organization. No publications to report. Also assisted in grant writing for a translational education grant. (2000 hours)
Independent study with a professor - editing the text and creating review questions for his new textbook prior to publication. 1 semester (40 hours)

Others:
Varsity basketball - 2 years of college basketball. Served as team captain the second year. 2x GCAA-First team honors, 3x GCAA player of the week, Defensive MVP, All GCAA Defensive team, Academic All-American.
1000 hours.


Yeah, I am editing that list currently although some of the schools I was thinking of keeping. I know SUNY Upstate and Downstate favor in-state students but I have been living in New York City for almost a year now, not planning on changing my residency though.
 
SeanW said:
Hello all,

So I have begun my application for a third time, even though I am still waitlisted at a school currently from last cycle. My first application was 2020-2021 and I received 3 interviews, 1 waitlist and 0 acceptances. This past year I had 2 interviews, one of which was super late in the cycle (the school that I am currently waitlisted at). I identified my short comings, 3.46 cGPA, 512 MCAT, only shadowing with 1 type of physician and tried to work on some of that stuff. I've been taking some online courses, added some shadowing, and got a job as a medical assistant. I know I should apply to DO schools as well but have 0 shadowing of a DO physician and obviously no recommendation letter from one. I'm a little confused as to what to do, and on top of it all my pre-medical advisor who I had known for the past 5 years left abruptly.

School list last year (will have a fair number of repeats this year:
Albany
ECU
Rosalind Franklin
Cooper Medical school of Rowan University
Drexel
EVMS
Emory
Quinnipiac
Geisinger
Buffalo
Temple
MUSC
NYMC
Stony Brook
Penn State
Vermont
Rush
Sidney Kimmel
SUNY Upstate and Downstate
Tufts
Tulane
USU
Miami
UNC-Chapel Hill
USC-Columbia
USC-Greenville
Virginia Tech
Wake Forest

To anyone who can offer any advice thank you so much!
Click to expand...
I was a third time applicant. You can shadow me; I’m a DO. I also know how to write a letter for someone who doesn’t shadow me because we have video calls.
 
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Work with someone to identify areas for improvement on your interview skills. Same with your essays.

Your non-clinical volunteering is severely lacking and is likely holding you back from several places.

As far as additional online coursework and/or working, your GPA is on the lower end and is probably what is holding you back from more options. Speaking from experience, you need a positive trend AND a good chunk of post-bacc work to make up for a lower GPA, and tbh your job may be holding you back from doing so. You probably don't need to do a full-blown SMP (although that is a good option), dabbling in a few courses isn't moving the needle if you post-bacc work isn't >30 hours. Read the post in my signature for my personal story on that regard.

You have some schools on this list you are just giving money away to, primarily Miami and Emory (even as an Emory grad, the sad truth is most med schools don't give a rat's ass if you went there for undergrad). As already stated, applying to OOS-unfriendly schools like SUNY is a no-no. Feel free to leave them on, but I know for experience Miami's application is unnecessarily brutal, and they favor high GPAs.

I'd suggest adding Colorado to your list, as they are OOS friendly, albeit possibly the most expensive OOS tuition in the nation.

Only apply to USU if you have a genuine interest in serving in the military. Utilizing it as a free option for medical school is not a financially sound decision, as has been shown in literature.
 
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Agreed with the advice above. There are many NY residents and the lack of significant non-clinical would likely hold you back at Downstate (as well as service-oriented schools in general). And Upstate might not care for the fact you live in NYC given that’s a different region of the state.

I suggest:

Albany
ECU
Rosalind Franklin
Drexel
Quinnipiac
Geisinger
Temple
NYMC
Penn State
Vermont
Sidney Kimmel
Tufts
UNC-Chapel Hill
Virginia Tech (only if you’re from the Appalachian part of NC)
Wake Forest
Hackensack
Nova MD
MCW
George Washington

Apply to DO schools. I suggest:

PCOM
Campbell
NYITCOM
Touro NY
KCU
DMU
 
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I'll add: your listed community service doesn't take you out of your comfort zone. I understand leveraging your basketball knowledge to underprivileged youth, but you have a larger network of community service organizations in NYC that you can leverage. Shelters, food pantry, job planning for Incarcerated, disability assistance...

I can credit your summer camp work, but what did you do?
 
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The GPA-MCAT grid shows that you have a ~50% chance for a MD acceptance. so far, you are in the 50% group that is not accepted. You should definitely be applying broadly to DO schools and most DO schools do not require a DO LOR. I suggest these DO schools with your stats:
CUSOM
VCOM (all schools except Monroe)
ACOM
WCU-COM
UIWSOM
TUNCOM
KCU-COM
ATSU-KCOM
DMU-COM
MU-COM
PCOM (all schools)
LECOM (all schools)
NYIT (both schools)
Touro-NY
For MD schools I suggest these:
UNC
East Carolina
Wake Forest
Virginia Commonwealth
Eastern Virginia
NOVA MD
Tulane
TCU-UNT
Creighton
Loyola
Rosalind Franklin
Rush
Medical College Wisconsin
Western Michigan
Oakland Beaumont
Wayne State
George Washington
Drexel
Temple
Jefferson
Penn State
Geisinger
Hackensack
New York Medical College
Albany
Vermont
Quinnipiac
The 1,000 hours as a medical assistant that you will have this year will help your chances at the service oriented schools.
 
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Mr.Smile12 said:
I'll add: your listed community service doesn't take you out of your comfort zone. I understand leveraging your basketball knowledge to underprivileged youth, but you have a larger network of community service organizations in NYC that you can leverage. Shelters, food pantry, job planning for Incarcerated, disability assistance...

I can credit your summer camp work, but what did you do?
Click to expand...
Okay, I will look into something else volunteering wise in addition. I had looked into some homeless outreach programs previously so maybe something along those lines. At the summer camp I was a camp counselor. My groups were epilepsy and spina bifida so we helped them through activities like swimming, a rope course, various games and such. There was also some very basic medical care like managing a seizure until the nurse got there or one child required help with basic things like showering and such. I tried to frame it as clinical volunteering because of the population and I thought that section of activities would be favored. But, if my non-clinical volunteering is something thats holding me back then maybe I shouldn't have done that.
 
Darrow O'Lykos said:
Work with someone to identify areas for improvement on your interview skills. Same with your essays.

Your non-clinical volunteering is severely lacking and is likely holding you back from several places.

As far as additional online coursework and/or working, your GPA is on the lower end and is probably what is holding you back from more options. Speaking from experience, you need a positive trend AND a good chunk of post-bacc work to make up for a lower GPA, and tbh your job may be holding you back from doing so. You probably don't need to do a full-blown SMP (although that is a good option), dabbling in a few courses isn't moving the needle if you post-bacc work isn't >30 hours. Read the post in my signature for my personal story on that regard.

You have some schools on this list you are just giving money away to, primarily Miami and Emory (even as an Emory grad, the sad truth is most med schools don't give a rat's ass if you went there for undergrad). As already stated, applying to OOS-unfriendly schools like SUNY is a no-no. Feel free to leave them on, but I know for experience Miami's application is unnecessarily brutal, and they favor high GPAs.

I'd suggest adding Colorado to your list, as they are OOS friendly, albeit possibly the most expensive OOS tuition in the nation.

Only apply to USU if you have a genuine interest in serving in the military. Utilizing it as a free option for medical school is not a financially sound decision, as has been shown in literature.
Click to expand...
I had a pretty good relationship with my advisor from Emory but he recently left so I haven't had that resource like I did previously.

Yeah I know my GPA is definitely limiting my chances, I had look into masters programs and post-baccs but couldn't make it work financially. I thought the course I'm in currently could help, even if just a little bit to get me over the hump since I've had multiple interviews and waitlists. It's only 9 credit hours in total unfortunately and I'm about to finish up the first half of it tomorrow. If it isn't helping much should I still finish it? The next semester will cost about $3,000 which I don't want to spend for no reason.

I removed Miami (the secondary was brutal, only Stony Brook could give it a run for its money) from my list this time around as well as USU.

My updated school list:
UNC (interview first cycle)
ECU (interview second cycle)
Emory
Wake Forest
NYMC
Penn State (interview first cycle)
Rosalind Franklin (still waitlisted, guaranteed interview this coming cycle)
Geisinger Commonwealth (interviewed first cycle)
Albert Einstein
Rush
Sidney Kimmel
Jacobs - Buffalo
EVMS
VCU
Colorado (from your suggestion)
Albany
Indiana

Schools I am considering:
Loyola
USF
Toledo
Michigan State
NYU- Long Island (I know its essentially a donation)
Rochester
Tufts
George Washington
Temple
Stony Brook
Georgetown
 
Faha said:
The GPA-MCAT grid shows that you have a ~50% chance for a MD acceptance. so far, you are in the 50% group that is not accepted. You should definitely be applying broadly to DO schools and most DO schools do not require a DO LOR. I suggest these DO schools with your stats:
CUSOM
VCOM (all schools except Monroe)
ACOM
WCU-COM
UIWSOM
TUNCOM
KCU-COM
ATSU-KCOM
DMU-COM
MU-COM
PCOM (all schools)
LECOM (all schools)
NYIT (both schools)
Touro-NY
For MD schools I suggest these:
UNC
East Carolina
Wake Forest
Virginia Commonwealth
Eastern Virginia
NOVA MD
Tulane
TCU-UNT
Creighton
Loyola
Rosalind Franklin
Rush
Medical College Wisconsin
Western Michigan
Oakland Beaumont
Wayne State
George Washington
Drexel
Temple
Jefferson
Penn State
Geisinger
Hackensack
New York Medical College
Albany
Vermont
Quinnipiac
The 1,000 hours as a medical assistant that you will have this year will help your chances at the service oriented schools.
Click to expand...
Thank you very much for the feedback!

Would you still include TCU even though I have no ties to Texas? Also, I had applied to a few of these schools twice already because I thought that they were pretty good targets with my stats but never received any interest from any of them, should I apply again still? The schools are: Tulane, Western Michigan, Wayne State, Drexel, Albany, NYMC, Vermont and Quinnipiac. If I apply to this many schools I am going to have to really look into putting off my second semester of that online course because this will deplete all of my savings.
 
I also applied to the South Carolina schools last time as my father lives there and I spent a lot of time in SC growing up and still to this day. It doesn't seem like that was a strong enough tie to the state though as I got pre-II rejections for all of them each time.
 
SeanW said:
Thank you very much for the feedback!

Would you still include TCU even though I have no ties to Texas? Also, I had applied to a few of these schools twice already because I thought that they were pretty good targets with my stats but never received any interest from any of them, should I apply again still? The schools are: Tulane, Western Michigan, Wayne State, Drexel, Albany, NYMC, Vermont and Quinnipiac. If I apply to this many schools I am going to have to really look into putting off my second semester of that online course because this will deplete all of my savings.
Click to expand...
TCU-UNT does not have an instate preference. Apply to those schools again since you have 1,000 new hours as a medical assistant that you did not have before when you applied.
 
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SeanW said:
I had a pretty good relationship with my advisor from Emory but he recently left so I haven't had that resource like I did previously.

Yeah I know my GPA is definitely limiting my chances, I had look into masters programs and post-baccs but couldn't make it work financially. I thought the course I'm in currently could help, even if just a little bit to get me over the hump since I've had multiple interviews and waitlists. It's only 9 credit hours in total unfortunately and I'm about to finish up the first half of it tomorrow. If it isn't helping much should I still finish it? The next semester will cost about $3,000 which I don't want to spend for no reason.

I removed Miami (the secondary was brutal, only Stony Brook could give it a run for its money) from my list this time around as well as USU.

My updated school list:
UNC (interview first cycle)
ECU (interview second cycle)
Emory
Wake Forest
NYMC
Penn State (interview first cycle)
Rosalind Franklin (still waitlisted, guaranteed interview this coming cycle)
Geisinger Commonwealth (interviewed first cycle)
Albert Einstein
Rush
Sidney Kimmel
Jacobs - Buffalo
EVMS
VCU
Colorado (from your suggestion)
Albany
Indiana

Schools I am considering:
Loyola
USF
Toledo
Michigan State
NYU- Long Island (I know its essentially a donation)
Rochester
Tufts
George Washington
Temple
Stony Brook
Georgetown
Click to expand...
You are not competitive for Emory, Rush (most accepted students have many more non-clinical hours), Buffalo, IU, USF, Toledo, Michigan State, Stony Brook, or Rochester. I wouldn’t include Colorado either as they target higher MCAT scorers and your GPA is also too low for them. It would not be wise to have so many schools on your list where you have little chance of acceptance on your third cycle attempt.
 
chilly_md said:
You are not competitive for Emory, Rush (most accepted students have many more non-clinical hours), Buffalo, IU, USF, Toledo, Michigan State, Stony Brook, or Rochester. I wouldn’t include Colorado either as they target higher MCAT scorers and your GPA is also too low for them. It would not be wise to have so many schools on your list where you have little chance of acceptance on your third cycle attempt.
Click to expand...
Okay thanks for the input, I will take most of them off. My advisor previously said schools with more than 10,000 applicants or below a 5% interview rate should be considered "reaches". So that would remove tufts, George Washington, Georgetown, and Sydney Kimmel. Do you think thats fair to say?
 
SeanW said:
Okay thanks for the input, I will take most of them off. My advisor previously said schools with more than 10,000 applicants or below a 5% interview rate should be considered "reaches". So that would remove tufts, George Washington, Georgetown, and Sydney Kimmel. Do you think thats fair to say?
Click to expand...
I would remove Georgetown, keep the others. If you need to save money in order to submit DO apps, then you can remove them.
 
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Would it be a red flag if I did not have a LOR from one of the providers at my office currently? I have a committee letter as well as an additional letter so I would have to pick and choose which to send to certain schools if they have a limit. I could surely have one of the providers here write one but my application just finished processing and was hoping to turn everything around quickly.
 
My updated school list as it stands now:

Already applied when I originally sent in my primary:
UNC
ECU
Emory
Rosalind Franklin
Penn State
Rush
Geisinger
I know @chilly_md said I am not competitive at Emory and Rush but I had already sent my applications at that point. I also removed the other schools you had said except for Buffalo as I was relatively close on their numbers. However, it could be removed in order to save money for my other applications.

Schools I will probably add:
Wake Forest
NYMC
Jacobs
EVMS
Albany
Loyola
TCU
Tufts
Quinnipiac
Tulane
Wright State
Vermont
Drexel
Medical College of Wisconsin
Hackensack

Schools I am considering:
Georgetown
George Washington (I like both of these schools a lot)
Temple
Nova Southeastern

I am concerned about the financial toll of this but am having trouble reducing my list anymore. Additionally, I am concerned about the quality of my secondaries having this many schools to turn around. I will also have multiple DO schools added to this list.
 
SeanW said:
Would it be a red flag if I did not have a LOR from one of the providers at my office currently? I have a committee letter as well as an additional letter so I would have to pick and choose which to send to certain schools if they have a limit. I could surely have one of the providers here write one but my application just finished processing and was hoping to turn everything around quickly.
Click to expand...
No, it’s fine. Do get a physician letter for DO schools though. The cycle runs longer so if you do not already have one, you can still get it.

SeanW said:
My updated school list as it stands now:

Already applied when I originally sent in my primary:
UNC
ECU
Emory
Rosalind Franklin
Penn State
Rush
Geisinger
I know @chilly_md said I am not competitive at Emory and Rush but I had already sent my applications at that point. I also removed the other schools you had said except for Buffalo as I was relatively close on their numbers. However, it could be removed in order to save money for my other applications.

Schools I will probably add:
Wake Forest
NYMC
Jacobs
EVMS
Albany
Loyola
TCU
Tufts
Quinnipiac
Tulane
Wright State
Vermont
Drexel
Medical College of Wisconsin
Hackensack

Schools I am considering:
Georgetown
George Washington (I like both of these schools a lot)
Temple
Nova Southeastern

I am concerned about the financial toll of this but am having trouble reducing my list anymore. Additionally, I am concerned about the quality of my secondaries having this many schools to turn around. I will also have multiple DO schools added to this list.
Click to expand...
Skip Emory’s secondary, you’ll save $100 there. Skip Buffalo as well. In the Post-II data sheet, it seems they offered only 131 total interviews to OOS students in 2020. In comparison, Vermont offered 563 and accepted many more students. It’s up to you if you would like to do the secondary for Rush. You have a lot of clinical hours but they are the school that expects the most in service to the underserved.

Wright State is like Toledo. They accept predominantly OH residents and students from MI and other Midwest states. This cycle is likely too late for Tulane as they have preferred early applicants in previous years. Loyola has a long secondary (with a heavy service focus), so if you want to save time for other schools’ secondaries, you can remove Loyola.
 
chilly_md said:
No, it’s fine. Do get a physician letter for DO schools though. The cycle runs longer so if you do not already have one, you can still get it.


Skip Emory’s secondary, you’ll save $100 there. Skip Buffalo as well. In the Post-II data sheet, it seems they offered only 131 total interviews to OOS students in 2020. In comparison, Vermont offered 563 and accepted many more students. It’s up to you if you would like to do the secondary for Rush. You have a lot of clinical hours but they are the school that expects the most in service to the underserved.

Wright State is like Toledo. They accept predominantly OH residents and students from MI and other Midwest states. This cycle is likely too late for Tulane as they have preferred early applicants in previous years. Loyola has a long secondary (with a heavy service focus), so if you want to save time for other schools’ secondaries, you can remove Loyola.
Click to expand...
Okay, thank you!
 
SeanW said:
Hello all,

So I have begun my application for a third time, even though I am still waitlisted at a school currently from last cycle. My first application was 2020-2021 and I received 3 interviews, 1 waitlist and 0 acceptances. This past year I had 2 interviews, one of which was super late in the cycle (the school that I am currently waitlisted at). I identified my short comings, 3.46 cGPA, 512 MCAT, only shadowing with 1 type of physician and tried to work on some of that stuff. I've been taking some online courses, added some shadowing, and got a job as a medical assistant. I know I should apply to DO schools as well but have 0 shadowing of a DO physician and obviously no recommendation letter from one. I'm a little confused as to what to do, and on top of it all my pre-medical advisor who I had known for the past 5 years left abruptly.

School list last year (will have a fair number of repeats this year:
Albany
ECU
Rosalind Franklin
Cooper Medical school of Rowan University
Drexel
EVMS
Emory
Quinnipiac
Geisinger
Buffalo
Temple
MUSC
NYMC
Stony Brook
Penn State
Vermont
Rush
Sidney Kimmel
SUNY Upstate and Downstate
Tufts
Tulane
USU
Miami
UNC-Chapel Hill
USC-Columbia
USC-Greenville
Virginia Tech
Wake Forest

To anyone who can offer any advice thank you so much!
Click to expand...
Call every DO in the area and try to inquire about shadowing them. Try to do some CC/state school classes to get a GPA over 3.5. Also, have you emailed any schools that denied you feedback on your application? A few schools did that for me. You got this!
 
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SeanW said:
Okay great, I will look into finding someone to talk to and prepare my DO application

My first year I interviewed at UNC, Geisinger Commonwealth and Penn State (Very late in the cycle, March).
This past year I had an interview at ECU and Rosalind Franklin (also very late in the cycle and I am on the waitlist currently).
Click to expand...
yeah you dont need a DO LOR only for ARCOM but they provide waivers
 
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Hello everyone,

Thanks to all who have replied before, your feedback is greatly appreciated. I had another question about this cycle. I applied to 18 MD schools and around 5 DO schools this time around, these past 2 weeks I have been moving into a new apartment and between that and work I haven’t been able to get in my secondaries for 4 of the MD schools. I received the secondaries on 8/10 for 3 of the schools and 8/16 for 1. I’m hoping to have them done by the end of the week but is it even worth submitting them at this point? I’m obviously very interested in their programs but I’m not in the financial state to be paying for programs that I have no shot at being admitted to. Only school did state they do not consider when your application is submitted, but rolling admissions so ya know. Anyways, any input would be great, thank you very much!
 
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