4.0 gpa vs avg/below avg gpa

[Bimmer boy]

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Hey guys, so I recently spoke with one of my friends who is now a 2nd year dental student. We were discussing a lot of stuff and he mentioned how one of his interviewers favored students with an average gpa over someone who has a 4.0. This was really surprising to me and I asked him why? Basically the interviewer told him that someone who struggled in the beginning of their undergrad years shows that they've been through it all whether its personal issues or lack of determination. However someone with a 4.0 gpa was most likely determined from the start and spent most of their time studying. I asked my friend so what's wrong with that? He said that its much harder for someone to clean up the mess they've made as opposed to someone who has never experienced such failures and maintained a high gpa throughout their whole undergrad career. I though this was an interesting perspective and would like to share with everyone specifically applicants with average to below average stats. It definitely gave me hope and I hope it helps you guys out too.

Do you guys agree with this perspective?

 

[Koalafied]

Hey guys, so I recently spoke with one of my friends who is now a 2nd year dental student. We were discussing a lot of stuff and he mentioned how one of his interviewers favored students with an average gpa over someone who has a 4.0. This was really surprising to me and I asked him why? Basically the interviewer told him that someone who struggled in the beginning of their undergrad years shows that they've been through it all whether its personal issues or lack of determination. However someone with a 4.0 gpa was most likely determined from the start and spent most of their time studying. I asked my friend so what's wrong with that? He said that its much harder for someone to clean up the mess they've made as opposed to someone who has never experienced such failures and maintained a high gpa throughout their whole undergrad career. I though this was an interesting perspective and would like to share with everyone specifically applicants with average to below average stats. It definitely gave me hope and I hope it helps you guys out too.

Do you guys agree with this perspective?

Let me ask you this question, OP: What would you rather be comfortable driving: a salvaged-titled Bimmer that runs perfectly fine or a pristine-brand-new Bimmer fresh from the plant?

 

[yggdrasila]

Well while this also gives me hope since I'm hoping to upward trend this sucker I feel like it's kinda unfair? Some people are just determined and the get 4.0's I mean they shouldn't really be knocked for it. At the same time if they have experienced any failures or hardships that should be all over their PS. Maybe if they had a 4.0 weird EC's and a shallow PS I would favor the average GPA applicant with a more rounded package in other areas.

hehe rounded package

oh cmon Koalafied people aren't cars and it's called a vintage car hh.

Also I was gonna add that as we have often heard dental school is multiple times harder than under grad so maybe the adcom thinks that someone who has a 4.0 either 1 has always enjoyed success and doesn't know how to rise up to occasion or 2 studies too much and isn't rounded in social experience. Still weirdly biased tho. I'd probably take a 4.0er most the time. Maybe he always got his **** kicked by 4.0's and holds a grudge?

 

[Hellokioo]

Hey guys, so I recently spoke with one of my friends who is now a 2nd year dental student. We were discussing a lot of stuff and he mentioned how one of his interviewers favored students with an average gpa over someone who has a 4.0. This was really surprising to me and I asked him why? Basically the interviewer told him that someone who struggled in the beginning of their undergrad years shows that they've been through it all whether its personal issues or lack of determination. However someone with a 4.0 gpa was most likely determined from the start and spent most of their time studying. I asked my friend so what's wrong with that? He said that its much harder for someone to clean up the mess they've made as opposed to someone who has never experienced such failures and maintained a high gpa throughout their whole undergrad career. I though this was an interesting perspective and would like to share with everyone specifically applicants with average to below average stats. It definitely gave me hope and I hope it helps you guys out too.

Do you guys agree with this perspective?

Honestly I don't. I have a 3.7+ oGPA and sGPA and have never gotten lower than B as an undergrad. I had to work all my undergrad years, took more then 15 credits every semester, did research, was active in school, did community work, plus shadowing. My life was completely full but I still managed to be determined and do my best. I know my GPA is not 4.0 but it's still kinda competitive. Anyways, my point is that they don't really know what other obstacles a person with high GPA faces while still maintaining their high GPA. As oppose to someone who has a low GPA who probably didn't take school so serious the first years. I feel like you don't need to hit rock bottom in other to understand what it's like to be in a "mess". It's more about finding ways to manage your life properly when it starts getting messy.

 

[Bimmer boy]

Let me ask you this question, OP: What would you rather be comfortable driving: a salvaged-titled Bimmer that runs perfectly fine or a pristine-brand-new Bimmer fresh from the plant?

I totally agree with you which is why I was just as shocked when I heard this I guess it just depends on whose interviewing you but it's something interesting to think about.. Of course someone with a 4.0 gpa will stand out way more in my opinion and I'm sure most everyone's opinion as well.

 

[Bimmer boy]

Honestly I don't. I have a 3.7+ oGPA and sGPA and have never gotten lower than B as an undergrad. I had to work all my undergrad years, took more then 15 credits every semester, did research, was active in school, did community work, plus shadowing. My life was completely full but I still managed to be determined and do my best. I know my GPA is not 4.0 but it's still kinda competitive. Anyways, my point is that they don't really know what other obstacles a person with high GPA faces while still maintaining their high GPA. As oppose to someone who has a low GPA who probably didn't take school so serious the first years. I feel like you don't need to hit rock bottom in other to understand what it's like to be in a "mess". It's more about finding ways to manage your life properly when it starts getting messy.

I also agree with you... I just wanted to share this with you guys because I thought it was an interesting perspective especially since it was from someone who interviewed dental school applicants

 

[supergenius310]

People with 4.0s who haven't experienced "failures" aren't necessarily stress free people. They work hard for their grades from the beginning because they know that their future depends on their grades now. I see people with very below average GPAs try to get their GPAs up because they "screwed up" their first 2 years. This doesn't show any work ethic...but just a late realization and an irresponsibility on their part. People with higher GPAs/sub-par GPAs deserve more respect, because maintaining such a high average is of a thing of its own and requires discipline, which a lot of people don't have.

 

[Bimmer boy]

Well while this also gives me hope since I'm hoping to upward trend this sucker I feel like it's kinda unfair? Some people are just determined and the get 4.0's I mean they shouldn't really be knocked for it. At the same time if they have experienced any failures or hardships that should be all over their PS. Maybe if they had a 4.0 weird EC's and a shallow PS I would favor the average GPA applicant with a more rounded package in other areas.

hehe rounded package

oh cmon Koalafied people aren't cars and it's called a vintage car hh.

Also I was gonna add that as we have often heard dental school is multiple times harder than under grad so maybe the adcom thinks that someone who has a 4.0 either 1 has always enjoyed success and doesn't know how to rise up to occasion or 2 studies too much and isn't rounded in social experience. Still weirdly biased tho. I'd probably take a 4.0er most the time. Maybe he always got his **** kicked by 4.0's and holds a grudge?

Haha also very true, I agree with everyone's comments.. I just found it be interesting since I never thought of it like that.. Either way it's extremely hard to maintain a 4.0 and it's also very hard to fix a mess you've made. In my opinion getting accepted also has a lot to do with luck rather than just stats.

 

[supergenius310]

Haha also very true, I agree with everyone's comments.. I just found it be interesting since I never thought of it like that.. Either way it's extremely hard to maintain a 4.0 and it's also very hard to fix a mess you've made. In my opinion getting accepted also has a lot to do with luck rather than just stats.

Doc toothache posted something a while back showing that around 84% of people with GPAs of 3.75+ get into a dental school. Not much luck there my friend. There is only luck for people that have passion, but are unable to maintain a certain GPA. Those people deserve to be in dental school. Other people who "screw up" and suddenly realize they should probably start getting As....welp that's their fault.

 

[yggdrasila]

People with 4.0s who haven't experienced "failures" aren't necessarily stress free people. They work hard for their grades from the beginning because they know that their future depends on their grades now. I see people with very below average GPAs try to get their GPAs up because they "screwed up" their first 2 years. This doesn't show any work ethic...but just a late realization and an irresponsibility on their part. People with higher GPAs/sub-par GPAs deserve more respect, because maintaining such a high average is of a thing of its own and requires discipline, which a lot of people don't have.

I agree that having a 4.0 is hard as hell. At the same time I hope you don't think that of everyone because **** happens and there are plenty of low GPA non trad students that I give way more respect to than some of the elitist nerd 4.0ers. Just my 2 cents tho I'm gonna need all the luck and charm I can get lol.

Bottom line is while having perfect grades is great and awesome that shouldn't be the only thing looked at there's a reason why the buzzwords these last few years has been well rounded.

 

[Bimmer boy]

Doc toothache posted something a while back showing that around 84% of people with GPAs of 3.75+ get into a dental school. Not much luck there my friend. There is only luck for people that have passion, but are unable to maintain a certain GPA. Those people deserve to be in dental school. Other people who "screw up" and suddenly realize they should probably start getting As....welp that's their fault.

I didn't say it's strictly luck but a lot has to do with it for people with average or below average stats.. And I don't think anyone with a 3.75+ gpa needs luck because they worked hard for it and deserve it but then again if luck doesn't have to do with it are the other 16% that don't get accepted considered "unlucky" if so, then the 84% that do get accepted are considered "lucky", overall I just think it can go both ways. Like I said, even to me a 4.0 gpa would stand out way more.

 

[Bimmer boy]

I agree that having a 4.0 is hard as hell. At the same time I hope you don't think that of everyone because **** happens and there are plenty of low GPA non trad students that I give way more respect to than some of the elitist nerd 4.0ers. Just my 2 cents tho I'm gonna need all the luck and charm I can get lol.

Bottom line is while having perfect grades is great and awesome that shouldn't be the only thing looked at there's a reason why the buzzwords these last few years has been well rounded.

Thank you!!! Lol I didn't mean to offend anyone with a 4.0 but you took the words right out my mouth.

 

[ModifiedBass]

I agree that having a 4.0 is hard as hell. At the same time I hope you don't think that of everyone because **** happens and there are plenty of low GPA non trad students that I give way more respect to than some of the elitist nerd 4.0ers. Just my 2 cents tho I'm gonna need all the luck and charm I can get lol.

Bottom line is while having perfect grades is great and awesome that shouldn't be the only thing looked at there's a reason why the buzzwords these last few years has been well rounded.

Don't have to be an "elitist nerd" to have a 4.0. Just some drive to do well in everything you do.

 

[amfassz]

To people with 4.0s or near 4.0s, where do you attend school?

 

[squigloo]

That interviewer was definitely not representing what the majority would say. Having an upward trend is most likely better when having an average gpa, but will not come close to a 4.0.

 

[yggdrasila]

Don't have to be an "elitist nerd" to have a 4.0. Just some drive to do well in everything you do.

Did I say that? I don't think I did

 

[Illfavor]

There is a funny video somewhere of a comicrug refuting this argument. He asks "why do we applaud those who struggle and recover? The drug addicts and alcoholics. Why don't we applaud those who do their best all the time?" Clearly not everyone can do it.

What a ridiculous assumption OP's friend makes. Folks with great grades haven't struggled? Maybe they did struggle early in a semester, and fought back for that A. I have done that on numerous occasions. Also, you have to accept the reality that for some people, struggling in a difficult class can still result in an A. Sure, if you've had personal problems and had to work through that then you'll have a different perspective. But then you're admitting that you have a ridiculously unfair standard for admissions.

"XYZ Dental School seeking:
-3.5 GPA
-Proof of overcoming struggle
-4.0s need not apply"

 

[supergenius310]

There is a funny video somewhere of a comicrug refuting this argument. He asks "why do we applaud those who struggle and recover? The drug addicts and alcoholics. Why don't we applaud those who do their best all the time?" Clearly not everyone can do it.

What a ridiculous assumption OP's friend makes. Folks with great grades haven't struggled? Maybe they did struggle early in a semester, and fought back for that A. I have done that on numerous occasions. Also, you have to accept the reality that for some people, struggling in a difficult class can still result in an A. Sure, if you've had personal problems and had to work through that then you'll have a different perspective. But then you're admitting that you have a ridiculously unfair standard for admissions.

"XYZ Dental School seeking:
-3.5 GPA
-Proof of overcoming struggle
-4.0s need not apply"

Amen

 

[shiftparadigm]

To people with 4.0s or near 4.0s, where do you attend school?

That's what I wonder too. People with 4.0s don't exist at my school 🙁

 

[Soleus715]

Now before I say anything I want to make it clear that I don't think anyone here got it easy or that a 4.0 doesn't mean as much. I completely respect people that worked their butt off for their 4.0 (supergenius 😛).

In my case, however, I had core bio courses where absolutely 0 people got an A.
My school always revealed the exam score distribution at the end of every exam and many times the average is a depressing 30% and the highest score is a B.

With the small curve that applied to all the bio courses at my school, the highest scoring student would end up with a B+ on that exam.

The big issue is that most of my bio courses were like this. The only thing that saved me was chemistry, physics, etc that wasn't as crazy as bio.

So although a 4.0 is extremely impressive, the fact that some schools deflate GPA like crazy should make it clear that the school each applicant came out of needs to be considered along with their GPA.

So if someone got a 4.0 at a GPA deflating school then I feel like they deserve more credit then someone who went to a much easier school and got a 4.0.

Sometimes, when I see people's scores and they have a very high GPA (3.8+) and a 16 AA on the DAT it just makes me facepalm. But when I see people with 4.0 and 20+ AA it makes perfect sense that they went to a good school and put in hard work.

 

[doc toothache]

With several hundred, if not thousands, of interviewers there is bound to be the entire spectrum of opinions; it could also be an interviewer who did not have too many ocassions to meet applicants with a 4.0.

 

[Bimmer boy]

With several hundred, if not thousands, of interviewers there is bound to be the entire spectrum of opinions; it could also be an interviewer who did not have too many ocassions to meet applicants with a 4.0.

Although very true, but I think the interview was at ucla so I'm pretty sure there were quite a few 4.0 applicants

 

[wowyourecool]

.

 

[JAWSSS]

Doc toothache posted something a while back showing that around 84% of people with GPAs of 3.75+ get into a dental school. Not much luck there my friend. There is only luck for people that have passion, but are unable to maintain a certain GPA. Those people deserve to be in dental school. Other people who "screw up" and suddenly realize they should probably start getting As....welp that's their fault.

A 4.0 at university A could be the equivalent of a 3.5-3.6 at university B. Plenty of dental schools say on their websites that they also judge applicants by rigor of "undergrad institution" not major.... or coursework.... But "institution."

So, some people with a 4.0 maybe didn't have to work as hard for it. They would never know because they have not experienced more difficult "institutions." I HAVE experienced how easy classes at one university were compared to another (both of which have the highest numbers of students getting accepted to dental school each year). Clearly, a 4.0 student at one school could be fighting for a B+ average at another.

There are schools that are known for grade inflating. There are also schools that are known for being more difficult. Some dental schools know which schools are which and will use this in their evaluations.

 

[jeffity]

With several hundred, if not thousands, of interviewers there is bound to be the entire spectrum of opinions; it could also be an interviewer who did not have too many ocassions to meet applicants with a 4.0.

I agree with this. These are just people too, after all. They have preferences and prejudices. Just opinions like the rest of us. This guy just feels that 4s alone don't have all he thinks is necessary. My dean favors DAT. Admissions favors GPA. One of my interviewers liked QR. You may even run into an interviewer who might judge you based on handshake or how you present yourself (70-year old military guy might not appreciate your modern vs traditions dress). So you just do your thing because you can't please them all.

 

[hitmans45]

Let me ask you this question, OP: What would you rather be comfortable driving: a salvaged-titled Bimmer that runs perfectly fine or a pristine-brand-new Bimmer fresh from the plant?

I understand what argument you're trying to make, but this statement is a fallacy. This analogy doesn't really work. A car doesn't learn from it's mistakes (accidents). A salvaged car, in general, can never be brought back up to par to its original state. But human beings have been known to learn, grow and not only return to their original state, but come out better than they were. But again I don't disagree with the OP, you or with the administrator; I just disagree with the way you argue.

 

[darknight]

Assuming a student have not experienced failure in his life because a 4.00 GPA, is one of the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

 

[ncamc]

Assuming a student have not experienced failure in his life because a 4.00 GPA, is one of the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

I agree. Believe it or not, there are people with high GPAs who have also overcome adversity. Just because you failed does not make you stronger. "Failing Forward" is a crock.