4 year PM and S residencies

[JEWmongous]

Hey all,
I'm just curious how many 4 year PM and S residencies exist in the United States? I heard of St. Barnabas, UPenn Presby, Temple, and one more (forgot the name).

Besides the Upenn residency, do you think the others will become a 3 year program or keep the length to 4 years?


Thanks

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[dpmgrad]

Hey all,
I'm just curious how many 4 year PM and S residencies exist in the United States? I heard of St. Barnabas, UPenn Presby, Temple, and one more (forgot the name).

Besides the Upenn residency, do you think the others will become a 3 year program or keep the length to 4 years?


Thanks

The other 4 year program is Wyckoff Heights Medical Center PM&S-36 program. Out of curiosity, which St. Barnabas program (Livingston, NJ or Bronx, NY) is the 4 year program?

I know that Temple have been looking into converting the 4 year program into a 3 year program with 1 year of fellowship format. However, I am not sure if a decision has been made at Temple about this or not. Temple just increased their first year position from 2 to 3 positions per year. There is a rumor that they might even increase the number of positions to 4 per year in the near future.

 

[Ezj391]

Wycoff has just switched back to PM&S 36 in 3-years due to low demand.

 

[dpmgrad]

Wycoff has just switched back to PM&S 36 in 3-years due to low demand.

Thanks for the update.

 

[krabmas]

st. barnabas in the bronx is 4 years. rumor has it that this is to keep more hands for patient care.

 

[MJ Ella]

I was wondering if there was a place where I could get a listing of podiatry residency programs? Or will our school just provide it when it's time?

 

[PODonny]

www.casprcrip.org is a website associated with the American Association of College of Podiatric Medicine that provides all the participating programs. It's currently being updated for 2008. The residencies are listed by state and each has a link listing the available rotations, affilated hospitals, program emphasis, even benefits in some cases. Lots of info.

 

[krabmas]

I was wondering if there was a place where I could get a listing of podiatry residency programs? Or will our school just provide it when it's time?

It would be nice if you could just trust the school to provide things when it is time. I would not trust them to do this. Try to start searching for things on your own so that you will be used to self teaching. Later on when you are interviewing for residency and then taking the boards and getting a liscense you will need these self educating skills. It is always OK to ask for help but do not wait for the school to help you. Just some life advice.

 

[Arwana]

I've been looking through the list of residency programs...but have a few questions...
Is it a good idea to avoid 24 mo. residencies and just plan on a 3 year residency? Pros/Cons?
Is there any ranking system to the residency programs themselves (i.e. which residencies are the best ones to get into if possible) or is it simply by word of mouth that you discover which residency is the best?
Along the same lines, are there certain area of emphasis in the residency that absolutely SHOULD be there as an indication of the quality of residency? (I noticed that some do not have family practice/plastic surgery/rheumatology etc. as part of the "curriculum" for their residents.)

Is there any benefit to the few 4 year residency programs...or is that reserved for the "naughty students" who get to be the hospital slaves for an additional year?!


I'm a class of 2011 "youngster" looking at the LONG-TERM...but I'm curious about how the residency side of things works. Any help = much appreciated!

 

[dpmgrad]

I've been looking through the list of residency programs...but have a few questions...
Is it a good idea to avoid 24 mo. residencies and just plan on a 3 year residency? Pros/Cons?
Is there any ranking system to the residency programs themselves (i.e. which residencies are the best ones to get into if possible) or is it simply by word of mouth that you discover which residency is the best?
Along the same lines, are there certain area of emphasis in the residency that absolutely SHOULD be there as an indication of the quality of residency? (I noticed that some do not have family practice/plastic surgery/rheumatology etc. as part of the "curriculum" for their residents.)

Is there any benefit to the few 4 year residency programs...or is that reserved for the "naughty students" who get to be the hospital slaves for an additional year?!


I'm a class of 2011 "youngster" looking at the LONG-TERM...but I'm curious about how the residency side of things works. Any help = much appreciated!

I would recommend that you do a quick search in the Podiatry forums for topics on residency. Many of your questions have been addressed in previous threads. Here are some link to some of the older threads for you to help you get started:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=383270
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=306230
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=335993
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=370399
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=368575

Along the same lines, are there certain area of emphasis in the residency that absolutely SHOULD be there as an indication of the quality of residency? (I noticed that some do not have family practice/plastic surgery/rheumatology etc. as part of the "curriculum" for their residents.)

All approved PM&S-24 and PM&S-36 programs have all of the necessary rotations to meet the standards created by CPME (Council on Podiatric Medical Education) for the respective programs. Just because a residency program does not have a rotation in Plastic Surgery, it does not mean that the residency program is not a quality program. Beyond the residency model standards, many programs add additional rotatiions to make their program more unique from other programs. If there are specific areas that you are interested in, you should find residency programs that offer rotations in your area of interest. For example, some programs are stronger in trauma, wound care, diabetic / limb salvage, pediatrics, etc...

It is good to see that you are making an effort to learn more about residency training. As you begin to visit residency programs and extern at different residency programs, you will begin to develop a list of things that you are looking for in a residency program. Remember, the number one residency program in the country may not necessary be the best program for you to train in. If you have any additional questions, feel free to ask.

 

[Arwana]

Thanks for the help...I'm still trying to learn all the "in's & outs" to maximize my use of this website...

 

[JEWmongous]

Just wondering...anyone extern or consider one of the 4 year pod residencies?

 

[Feli]

Just wondering...anyone extern or consider one of the 4 year pod residencies?

With the incresing availability of fellowships after a regular 3 year PMS-36, there are quite a few ways to get extensive training if you want it. Nonetheless, I definitely like the idea of the 4yr PMS-36 programs and the extensive exposure to external rotations which they seem to offer.

I'd like to check out Penn Presby, but, from everything I hear and read, the residency spots are absolutely dominated by Temple students year in and year out when match rolls around. It says on CASPR/CRIP that the Presby progam takes clerks and residents from all pod colleges, so I'm not sure if that's political or just random? The fact that all of the faculty are Temple grads hints to me that it might be fairly political.

 

[krabmas]

With the incresing availability of fellowships after a regular 3 year PMS-36, there are quite a few ways to get extensive training if you want it. Nonetheless, I definitely like the idea of the 4yr PMS-36 programs and the extensive exposure to external rotations which they seem to offer.

I'd like to check out Penn Presby, but, from everything I hear and read, the residency spots are absolutely dominated by Temple students year in and year out when match rolls around. It says on CASPR/CRIP that the Presby progam takes clerks and residents from all pod colleges, so I'm not sure if that's political or just random? The fact that all of the faculty are Temple grads hints to me that it might be fairly political.

I do not think that it is political. It is easier to stick to what you know and it is easier to teach new residents if you already know what they have learned and been exposed to. That being said, I'd rather go to a program with a large diversity of schools and programs represented to get a broad education.

 

[JEWmongous]

Didn't one of the 4 year Philly programs recently open up its residency spots to graduates from ALL of the pod schools? I think it was the Graduate Hospital residency sponsored by Temple University. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[krabmas]

Didn't one of the 4 year Philly programs recently open up its residency spots to graduates from ALL of the pod schools? I think it was the Graduate Hospital residency sponsored by Temple University. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Just because a program says that it takes students from all schools, this does not mean that they actually will.

 

[dpmgrad]

Didn't one of the 4 year Philly programs recently open up its residency spots to graduates from ALL of the pod schools? I think it was the Graduate Hospital residency sponsored by Temple University. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

No, the Graduate program, which was a PM&S-36 program) is no longer in existence. The only residency program program that Temple University sponsors is the residency program at Temple University Hospital, which is a 4 year residency program. Yes, Temple University Hospital residency program is actually open to students from all schools. The reason why you see TUSPM students getting the Temple or Penn Presby residency program is that the majority of the candidates are from TUSPM. Hence, increasing the odds of TUSPM student getting those spots. Penn Presby has taken a non TUSPM student a few years ago. As more students from other schools apply for these two residency program, you might see that there will be non TUSPM students at these two residency programs.

 

[PharmD/DPM]

I externed at UPenn-Presby a few months ago and really liked it. I know that it's tough to consider a 4 year residency in podiatry, but I'm definetely considering this one, even if I'm not a Temple student. The program is very academic, rigorous and demanding all 4 years. Also, by the time that you finish it, there won't be a question about your surgical and medicine skills. It has excellent attending and great residents to work with.

 

[shoes]

I just wanted to add that at UPENN we would prefer more students/residents from other schools. Our apparent loyalties to TUSPM is dictated by applicant interest. We actually have two residents from Scholl in our program now and both are entering their second year in July. Your qualifications and performance as an extern and in the interview not which school you attended will ultimately determine whether or not you are accepted. That being said, if it were possible to have two applicants who were identical in every way except one went to TUSPM and the other applicant attended another school, the TUSPM student would likely be at the disadvantage. We welcome externs (or is it clerks now?) from any school. We likely have space available this year (month specific)if any one still wants to come.

 

[whiskers]

In my opinion, solid academic programs will not do the academic incest thing.

 

[MaseratiGT]

Hey guys/gals!

I've been searching SDN, but I don't really have a solid answer to my question, but it has to do with this topic.

Is a residency a 3+ years because there are not enough cases to see within the usual 3 year period? Or, were they created to enhance the breadth of knowledge of the resident with the extra year?

 

[Feli]

...Is a residency a 3+ years because there are not enough cases to see within the usual 3 year period? Or, were they created to enhance the breadth of knowledge of the resident with the extra year?

The latter.

Having 4 years just gives you plenty of time for quality exposure to other specialties, surgical variety, and academics. You will really realize when you begin looking at residency programs that there are big differences in training philosophies, volume, and, most importantly, differences in available resources. Some programs might have 3 or 4 residents plus one or two attendings scrubbed in for just an Austin or simple I&D because they need the numbers. Other programs may have ankle fractures and flatfoot recons going uncovered by residents because volume is so great. In the end, numbers don't really tell the whole story. You don't get numbers for reading background literature, doing skills workshops, doing research, or practicing cadaver dissection the night before a case. All of those things still make you a better surgeon, though.

To my understanding from talking with residents and attendings of Temple and Presby, your CPME required surgical numbers are usually covered sometime before completion of the third year. The fourth year is typically more for teaching of junior residents in the OR and journal club, doing research, and selecting a good number of surgical cases of highest personal interest (and possible future subspecialty).

 

[Feli]

...also, does anyone know if UPMC-SS now a 4yr program, or was it just an error on the newest CPME 300 document?

http://www.apma.org/s_apma/bin.asp?CID=165&DID=17030&DOC=FILE.PDF (pg 13)