40 on the mcat: hardwork of natural intellect?

[AlanG]

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So, what does everyone think about achieving a 40+ score on the mcat. Is this something you can study your way to, or is it alll natural ability?

 

[FuSoYa]

I'd say that a very small percentage of MCAT success is based on natural ability. There are the occasional stories of people who barely study and do exceptionally well, but those are rare and not always true. For the rest of us mere mortals, finding succes only comes with tireless effort. However, a 40+ score does involve a bit of luck as well.

 

[Yope]

It's a waste of time to think about who can achieve 40+ (besides, why bother asking us? It's not as if we know any better). To get a high score, do the following:

1) Assume 45 is achievable by hard work.

2) Work hard.

 

[yousafob]

A combination of both, but once you start scoring in the 38+ range the difference between a 38/39 39/40 40/41 41/42 etc. is only a difference of answering 1-2 questions correctly.

 

[physics junkie]

Of the people I know...

40 - One guy, very brilliant, not that much hard work. Met him in my 400 level physics classes that he was auditing for fun. He was always on the ball and said you didn't need to know 50% of the bio to get >13...just needed reasoning skills.

39 - Studied all day except 2 hours for 5 months. Took 60+ practice tests. Was scoring 41-43 on his practice tests. Started with 20s.

38 - My cousin. 4 weeks of semi-casual studying.

 

[luxaeterna]

I would say that getting above a 37 on the real thing almost always involves a little luck.

 

[Vihsadas]

It's a waste of time to think about who can achieve 40+ (besides, why bother asking us? It's not as if we know any better). To get a high score, do the following:

1) Assume 45 is achievable by hard work.

2) Work hard.

word

I would say that getting above a 37 on the real thing almost always involves a little luck.

If I was just starting to study for the MCAT, I would have probably agreed with you, but knowing what I know now, I think that scoring in the 38-45 range is skillfull, while achieving a specific score involves a bit of luck. i.e. So what you're saying is true in the sense that there are only a few questions difference between say a 43 and a 40, and since everyone makes a dumb mistake every now and again it could drop your score a scaled point or two. But I wouldn't say that scoring in the 37+ range always necessarily involves a bit of luck. I only say this because to my surprise when my scores started to improve, there was a string of practice tests at the end where I scored between 39-44 (I think it was 5 tests). So then I really felt like I could have scored above 37+ consistently on every exam I took from that point forward.
Don't get me wrong: To the original question of this thread: I worked my ever-loving butt off studying for the MCAT.
So I vote hardwork.

 

[JazzOne]

It has to be a combination of both. It takes a strong intellect to score a 40; of that there is no doubt. So what of the chap who doesn't study and seems to rip off a 40 without working hard? I suspect those individuals had to work hard at some point to acquire the skills of thinking and reasoning effectively.

 

[BlueElmo]

It's different for people. I never worked so hard in my life for a test and I only managed mid-30s.
My former roommate only used that Kaplan MCAT book that's available in bookstores, and he scored a 41. I don't think he even studied that much, he's always watching those infernal Japanese manga. But he also happens to be one of the most brilliant people I ever met.

Up to a certain point hard work matters. But after that point, I would say it's a combination of natural intelligence and luck.

 

[drizzt3117]

I think knowledge will take you a good way towards getting a good score, but luck and test taking skills will play a role. If you've studied hard, you'll likely get to a point where you have a lot of questions answered to your satisfaction and a certain number of questions eliminated to two answer choices. At that point, you need to make a decision on how to answer them and those questions will likely determine your score. If the questions you answered correctly take you to the mid 30s, these 50/50 questions will determine whether you score there or much higher. That said, getting these questions right isn't luck unless they are very subjective questions (i.e. verbal)

 

[229141]

It's different for people. I never worked so hard in my life for a test and I only managed mid-30s.
My former roommate only used that Kaplan MCAT book that's available in bookstores, and he scored a 41. I don't think he even studied that much, he's always watching those infernal Japanese manga. But he also happens to be one of the most brilliant people I ever met.

Up to a certain point hard work matters. But after that point, I would say it's a combination of natural intelligence and luck.

Haha I would say getting in the top 6-7% of all students taking it is pretty damn good man....

 

[ORELL]

i would say its more luck than intelligence for people who score in the high forty.

 

[aevea]

40+: deliberate effort. Here's how I see the formula.

1. Intensive study
   • Learning science facts
   • Integrating science concepts
   • Applying science knowledge
   • Reading skills
   • Test-taking skills
2. Repetitive practice
3. Analysis
   • Self-analysis
   • Section-analysis
   • Item-analysis
4. Pacing
5. Stamina
6. Luck

Natural ability in one or more of these areas might reduce the time it takes to get there, but the effort leads to the score.

 

[BlueElmo]

Haha I would say getting in the top 6-7% of all students taking it is pretty damn good man....

Oh yeah I forgot about that. I mean, everywhere I look in SDN, mid-30's seem the norm. I forgot for a moment that SND represents only a fraction of the pre-med population.🙂

 

[emno]

40+: deliberate effort. Here's how I see the formula.

1. Intensive study
   • Learning science facts
   • Integrating science concepts
   • Applying science knowledge
   • Reading skills
   • Test-taking skills
2. Repetitive practice
3. Analysis
   • Self-analysis
   • Section-analysis
   • Item-analysis
4. Pacing
5. Stamina
6. Luck

Natural ability in one or more of these areas might reduce the time it takes to get there, but the effort leads to the score.

aevea,
You have said it very well.

 

[physics junkie]

Haha I would say getting in the top 6-7% of all students taking it is pretty damn good man....

Ya but the bottom 70%ile of scores have to retake to get an acceptance anyways so they don't count.

 

[runie46]

Combination of natural intellect and studying. The most important thing for the MCAT is actually common sense and reading skills.. thats what helped me the most.
But I know of super smart people who studied for months straight and only got low 30's.

 

[AlanG]

hahah wow like 1000 people viewed this. pretty ridiculous. anyway, i'm at least happy to see that people are at least saying that there is a hard work component to attempting to get a score of 40 on the mcat. i was actually expecting more people to say it's all luck or natural brilliance. hard work i can do. anyway, for those of you who got a 40, i'm just curious about what your diagnostic scores were?

 

[mcat45]

interesting thread.....bump

 

[wait4me]

BOTH.... I dont think its possible to get a 40 without hard work and lots of practice but i do think it comes more naturally for some.

I think some people pick up on things quicker than others (and are better at conceptualizing things).....meaning they dont have to spend as much time studying the same thing/practicing the same problems over and over in order to get it

 

[tennisball80]

Even it does depend to natural ability, the only way left for me is to work hard.

 

[planktonelement]

For most people, it's hard work that'll get you in the 39-45 range. However, it's a lot easier if you've already developed the mental tools necessary to get to that range. I've also seen some people who have studied extremely hard for the MCAT and they haven't been able to get close to the mid-30s. (BTW good luck to anyone taking the test soon!)

 

[CaliforniaKid]

It's a waste of time to think about who can achieve 40+ (besides, why bother asking us? It's not as if we know any better). To get a high score, do the following:

1) Assume 45 is achievable by hard work.

2) Work hard.

what a pimp.

 

[ChemEngSoonMD]

So, what does everyone think about achieving a 40+ score on the mcat. Is this something you can study your way to, or is it alll natural ability?

Both.

1. a ****** will never score 40.
2. a genius who never opened an MCAT book will never score 40

this is the only logical conclusion.

 

[DrDre2001]

Both.

1. a ****** will never score 40.
2. a genius who never opened an MCAT book will never score 40

this is the only logical conclusion.

I agree.

Many MCAT questions require both: 1. that you have some background knowledge 2. that you can apply that knowledge to a new situation



Also, look at the retake stats.

We can assume that someone taking the test a second time knows more of the content the second time around. And we can assume that his natural ability is the same as when he took the test the first time.

Predictions:

1. If the MCAT is more about natural ability, then a retaker should score about the same on his second attempt as his first attempt.

2. If the MCAT is more about knowing the content, then a retaker should score higher on his second attempt.


Results:

If you look at the actual retake stats (if anyone has the link, let us know what it is), retakers do not score much higher the second (or third) time around. So, this fits with number 1 above.

 

[JayX]

Verbal is the most "naturally inclined" section of the test. The average verbal nation wide is "10". Yet, the average for every top school in the nation is only an 11. For those individuals scoring 36+ they must be scoring well in this section. For those with 40+ they must be doing excellent in this section; meaning only 1,2, or 3 questions incorrect.

From my personal experience, and extensive study, i found that i was able to attain 13's and 14's in the science sections because i mastered the content.
But verbal, no matter how many passages i did, or how many different approaches i took, i was unable to score much better than the national average.

In the end, what matters is that you can master the science tested. This may take some a month, while others a couple years. Nevertheless, the verbal section is where alot of the "natural points" come from.

In fact, i believe this is bull****. I don't think there would be much difference between someone who got a 12 11 12 35 and someone who got a 12 13 12 37, in regards to their capacity to become a physician.

 

[Schemp]

There is definitely some natural ability involved. Obviously it's not everything, but when you have some people who work their asses off and can't break thirty, and others who only study a moderate amount and score mid-thirties consistently, and certainly can get into the 40s if they get lucky.

There is almost no one who can score in the 40s consistently though. It's just too easy to only miss a few in each section, and there you are at 39 or lower.

 

[Aljazera]

I'm a ******, and I take offense.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

There is definitely some natural ability involved. Obviously it's not everything, but when you have some people who work their asses off and can't break thirty, and others who only study a moderate amount and score mid-thirties consistently, and certainly can get into the 40s if they get lucky.

There is almost no one who can score in the 40s consistently though. It's just too easy to only miss a few in each section, and there you are at 39 or lower.

i would guess that most people who end up in the 40s did so consistently in practice.

 

[schrizto]

i would guess that most people who end up in the 40s did so consistently in practice.

most of the time the people I hear that get 40+ usually score in the high 30s on practice tests and are pleasantly surprised by their 40+. Consistently scoring in the 40s would be unreal, I don't think I've seen anyone ever go into the MCAT with that much confidence.

of course bleargh, you would probably know more than me since you got a 41 or something?

 

[GoodmanBrown]

I think I disagree with most posters. I think it's largely natural ability. You certainly need to study up, but without the natural quick-wittedness it takes to get through all the sections with some time to review harder questions, you won't get a 40+. The MCAT isn't about hardness per se (at least I didn't feel that way after practice tests and the actual one). It's more about being able to quickly understand how to do a problem and do it.

For instance, my first question on the MCAT was a simple "find the density of this star" question. But, they don't just give you the volume and mass. They give you a variety of other info that lets you extrapolate. It's not hard math or hard concepts. It just how fast you can do them?

The material isn't all that hard to understand. It's just how fast you can run through it while being timed in a high-stress environment. That's all nature.

 

[Crash88]

I'd say it depends on what section you are looking at. BS and PS can easily be raised by studying concepts and understanding formulas. VR, on the other hand, seems to seriously hit some diminishing returns after about 11.

But anyway- anything is possible through hardwork. My diagnostic was 30 when I started, and at the end I was hitting consistently in the 38 range for AAMC and averaging 40 on Kaplan. And that's exactly where my scores lay. Although, I agree there is some luck involved after 40.

 

[BennieBlanco]

So, what does everyone think about achieving a 40+ score on the mcat. Is this something you can study your way to, or is it alll natural ability?

Pro sports: hard work or natural ability?

go.

 

[BennieBlanco]

Both.

1. a ****** will never score 40.
2. a genius who never opened an MCAT book will never score 40

this is the only logical conclusion.

exactly. This original question is problematic. Although I volunteer with a organization that helps mentally disabled people, and since then I made an effort to quit saying ******.

 

[Schemp]

I'd say it depends on what section you are looking at. BS and PS can easily be raised by studying concepts and understanding formulas. VR, on the other hand, seems to seriously hit some diminishing returns after about 11.

But anyway- anything is possible through hardwork. My diagnostic was 30 when I started, and at the end I was hitting consistently in the 38 range for AAMC and averaging 40 on Kaplan. And that's exactly where my scores lay. Although, I agree there is some luck involved after 40.

See, what you're overlooking is the fact that getting a 30 on the diagnostic is very high compared to most people (assuming it was before you'd done much studying). Some people genuinely struggle to get a 30 AFTER all their studying is done.

Those people may not have the same natural intellect, at least not the type the MCAT requires, but I also don't believe most doctors need to be 40+ capable people, either.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

See, what you're overlooking is the fact that getting a 30 on the diagnostic is very high compared to most people (assuming it was before you'd done much studying). Some people genuinely struggle to get a 30 AFTER all their studying is done.

Those people may not have the same natural intellect, at least not the type the MCAT requires, but I also don't believe most doctors need to be 40+ capable people, either.

i personally think more of a factor is the lifetime of learning/studying/critical thinking built over a person's ENTIRE educational career that makes the difference.

 

[Schemp]

i personally think more of a factor is the lifetime of learning/studying/critical thinking built over a person's ENTIRE educational career that makes the difference.

you might me right about that, but at that point it's really tough to differentiate nature from nurture.

 

[DrDre2001]

Verbal is the most "naturally inclined" section of the test. The average verbal nation wide is "10". Yet, the average for every top school in the nation is only an 11. For those individuals scoring 36+ they must be scoring well in this section. For those with 40+ they must be doing excellent in this section; meaning only 1,2, or 3 questions incorrect.

From my personal experience, and extensive study, i found that i was able to attain 13's and 14's in the science sections because i mastered the content.
But verbal, no matter how many passages i did, or how many different approaches i took, i was unable to score much better than the national average.

In the end, what matters is that you can master the science tested. This may take some a month, while others a couple years. Nevertheless, the verbal section is where alot of the "natural points" come from.

In fact, i believe this is bull****. I don't think there would be much difference between someone who got a 12 11 12 35 and someone who got a 12 13 12 37, in regards to their capacity to become a physician.

Wait what? There is no possible way that a 10 is the national average for verbal. I'm pretty sure it is an 8 or slightly above an 8, like 8.2 or something.

 

[DrDre2001]

How about this for an experiment...Take a practice test with your EK/Kaplan/TPR content review books in front of you. I bet that you won't score too much higher than what you would get without these books in front of you.

Furthermore, just think about things from the AAMC's perspective. Why would they make a test that just tests our memorization skills? That would be pointless.

 

[BennieBlanco]

See, what you're overlooking is the fact that getting a 30 on the diagnostic is very high compared to most people (assuming it was before you'd done much studying). Some people genuinely struggle to get a 30 AFTER all their studying is done.

Those people may not have the same natural intellect, at least not the type the MCAT requires, but I also don't believe most doctors need to be 40+ capable people, either.

Most doctors aren't capable of 40+, if we take into account reality. Which is 1% of scores or so?

 

[BennieBlanco]

This question can put one's focus on the wrong thing.

The correct answer is it doesn't matter.

Do your best.

 

[SuperSaiyan3]

I think you left something out on the thread.

I'm sure there has been people who have reach 40+ by cheating off other people's screens.

 

[ChemEngSoonMD]

I think you left something out on the thread.

I'm sure there has been people who have reach 40+ by cheating off other people's screens.

You can just as likely copy the wrong answers.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

I think you left something out on the thread.

I'm sure there has been people who have reach 40+ by cheating off other people's screens.

having taken the mcat i'd expect you to know better.

 

[Hemichordate]

You can just as likely copy the wrong answers.

I think that was a joke.

 

[schrizto]

I'd say it depends on what section you are looking at. BS and PS can easily be raised by studying concepts and understanding formulas. VR, on the other hand, seems to seriously hit some diminishing returns after about 11.

But anyway- anything is possible through hardwork. My diagnostic was 30 when I started, and at the end I was hitting consistently in the 38 range for AAMC and averaging 40 on Kaplan. And that's exactly where my scores lay. Although, I agree there is some luck involved after 40.

I just saw your MDapps... you have ridiculous stats.

 

[pick8]

The way I see it, anybody can memorize. Work hard enough, and for enough time, and you'll at least be able to master the content necessary for the test.

Unfortunately, the MCAT is meant to test critical thinking as well as knowledge gained through rote-memorization. That's where I think natural ability *might* come into play. You have to learn how to *think* about this test. Sometimes I feel people don't fully understand this. I remember reading this board right after the 7/17 test, and people were absolutely flipping out because the material in some passages wasn't what they had studied. Admit to yourself right now that it's going to happen. Expect it. I'd be willing to bet that it's supposed to happen. The MCAT is a test that requires lots of background knowledge, but in the end it's a test that's supposed to examine your critical thinking and analysis skills. The key is to realize that even when the passage material looks totally foreign, you can't let yourself panic and think you won't be able to answer anything. Most of the time you can answer the questions based on what they give you, but you have to examine the passage critically and figure out both what's being asked, and how you can get that information. Does it help to "naturally" be a good critical thinker ("naturally" in quotes because "natural talent" is probably more the result of years and years of education and refined thought processes)? Sure. But take lots of practice tests, and you'll get a good idea of how the test makers want you to attack these passages.

In the end though, getting a 40+ is probably as much luck as it is skill. Getting a "high score" (maybe 38+) is skill. But within that range, 1 point is probably 2-3 questions, and once you get above 40, only 1-2 questions. During any MCAT you're going to have a bunch of 50-50 problems that you're not sure of, and getting a few of them right or a few of them wrong can pretty drastically affect your scaled score at the high end.

And finally, at the risk of making everything I just said moot, I think the question being asked is kind of destructive. Regardless of the answer, are you going to study any harder or less hard? I hope not. I think Yope hit the nail on the head in this regard.

 

[Mattabet]

Yeah, I got a 40T, the way I see it it's hardwork, intellect, and luck. All three.

I've studied with and helped plenty of hard workers. Their applications are full of great EC's, and they work hard for their good grades. They can set out with an organized study plan and work for months and just barely break 30.

I know plenty of people that are really intelligent. I consider myself to be a reasonably smart guy as well, but this clearly isn't enough. My friend (an intelligent guy) just got a 250 on Step I of the boards (two standard deviations above the mean) with diligent preparation. He took the MCAT without much prep and scored in the 20s. Likewise, my first diagnostic was a 26. It took about three months to get up to 40. It takes months for even 'intelligent' people to get up to the top few percentiles on these big tests.

And lastly, there's luck. In the last 10 days before my MCAT my practice tests were falling between 38-41, and I wasn't doing appreciably better or worse. They were all in that range, but it was up to the test exactly where I ended up. That's why adcoms (correctly) don't care much where your score falls once it gets up high enough - your score loses meaning ~40.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

there's luck only up to a certain degree, i feel. it's up to you to minimize it, and i believe it's possible to minimize it in such a way that its effect on your score is essentially zero, through hard work or lack thereof. that is to say, this goes for both very high schores and very low scores - luck doesn't play much of a factor when you're scoring single digit composites. there are some that score very highly based partly on luck. there are others who score that highly regardless of any individual test related factor. i'm a firm believer it's ALL on you.

 

[BennieBlanco]

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