45 (MCAT) or 4.0 (GPA)

[Jkim]

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Which would you wrather have?

45 and 3.3

4.0 and 33

 

[U4iA]

Which would you wrather have?

no doubt, 45 MCAT.. MCAT scores that high are much less common than GPAs that high..

you edited the post.. but I would still take the 45 mcat..

 

[dave613]

Which would you wrather have?

45 and 3.3

4.0 and 33

why are you asking this question?

 

[Jkim]

it's just a fun little question, no real meaning behind. it. 😀 😎 🙄 😛 🙂 😳 😉

 

[RayhanS1282]

I'll play the fantasy game since I won't have either...I'd take the 45 MCAT, that way I can explain my sucky GPA by saying that I am so smart that I got bored with my classes.

 

[drguy22]

33 and 4.0

y??? because it shows i have a life...if u can get a 45 on the MCAT....seriously..someone needs to get u a life!!!!!

 

[hmgcoa]

lets just say...that your 3.3 was BECAUSE you had a life..(ie. went out and got annihilated with the college buddies...slept-in...etc)..

but then...for 2 months, gave all that up and used that time as a way to destroy the mcat...

i'd say the 4.0 would be more reflective of not having a life...than a 45, which...if you think about it...can be accomplished by not having a life for a few months rather than an entire college career....

 

[Doctor Bagel]

45 on the mcat. no matter how hard you study, most people could not achieve that score without being pretty smart. if it's not a fluke, it's an indication that you're very, very intelligent. a 4.0 is much easier to come by.

 

[DieselPetrolGrl]

no way
33 and 4.0
bc anything over 30 with that gpa is cake
whereas on the other hand it looks very fraud-ish to have a 45 and a 3.3
what do u say.."i didnt apply myself...bc i didnt feel like it"

 

[willthatsall]

A 4.0 isn't nearly as impressive as a 45. I would take the 45 without a doubt.

 

[Phil Anthropist]

Which would you wrather have?
45 and 3.3
4.0 and 33

I'd be happy to have either. But your shot would be better at most schools with the latter:

43 MCAT, 3.25 gpa
http://www.mdapplicants.com/viewprofile.php?id=426

33 MCAT, 4.00 gpa
http://www.mdapplicants.com/viewprofile.php?id=953
http://www.mdapplicants.com/viewprofile.php?id=2175

No one scored a 44 or 45 in 2003:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=1661766&postcount=1

But even if you were able to accomplish such a monumental feat, it's nothing more than bragging rights. Sure it'd be pretty cool to think, "I had the highest score possible on the MCAT and beat everyone in the nation," but I'm willing to bet you would have more opportunities with a 4.0 and a 33. And once you're in medical school, no one will care what you got on your MCAT.

Phil

Edit: But I WOULD be more impressed with a 45 😳

 

[Medikit]

I'd rather have a 3.3 and a 45, but for getting into medical school it's better to have a 4.0 and a 33.

 

[tank you]

I would definately have a 45 and 3.3 because you will definately stand out with that big fat 45. Even though a 4.0 is extremely hard to achieve, different schools have different levels of difficulty for the same classes whereas the MCAT is supposedly standardized so everyone's score is relative.

 

[hmgcoa]

the initial question was....which would you rather have.

i guess, it boils down to what you want...me personally? haha. i'd want the 45 and the 3.3.

a 3.3 is not a horrible GPA. in fact, at some schools (such as mine if you were an engineering major) a 3.3 is amazing. (avg is like a 2.6 or so). the point is. gpa can vary between school to school. and while the 33 4.0 combo would definitely be the safe bet when it comes to getting into A medical school, try seeing if it helps one get into lets say a WashU where the avg. is above 36 now...!

a 4.0 could be earned anywhere. my 4.0 could be much more difficult to get than yours...(you see where this can go?)

however, a 45 on the mcat pretty much speaks for itself.

post bac work and extra classes can help one boost the 3.3 to a more "respectable" number. however, the 45 in the mcat is like a lottery ticket waiting to be cashed in. there is no room for improvement here...(nor is it easily done in the first place).

i dunno...tough call. but id pick 45, 3.3. =)

 

[aug14]

I think anyone who picks 4.0 and 30 MCAT is crazy. A 30 MCAT will not get you into many schools, even if you have a 4.0 from Yale or Harvard. I bet a perfect MCAT score would make you competitive to almost any school, even with a 3.3 from a state school.

 

[MoosePilot]

Yeah, I think that 4.0 and 33 is very competitive, but the 45 makes you literally "one of a kind". What school doesn't want to have the one guy who made a perfect score on the MCAT at their school?

 

[futuremsfdoc]

i'd take the 45 and 3.3 so that way i would get into washu with a full-ride.

 

[themadchemist]

i'd take the 45 and 3.3 so that way i would get into washu with a full-ride.

how do you figure that would get you a full-ride at the number 2 med school in the country?

 

[Hercules]

I just happened to see this subject and thought I'd throw in my $0.02. I can promise you that you would rather have a 45 on the MCAT if you're applying. You can always explain away a lower GPA with higher standardized scores, the reverse is not true however. Adcomms like standardized tests b/c they give them an absolute way to compare students. A lot of students don't like it, but if you're going into medicine you better get used to it.

 

[Tiddly of Winks]

I would only take the 45/3.3 on one condition: I really wanted to go to Washu over any other school. Those statsluts would look right past the 3.3 and slobber all over my 45.

 

[themadchemist]

I would only take the 45/3.3 on one condition: I really wanted to go to Washu over any other school. Those statsluts would look right past the 3.3 and slobber all over my 45.

I don't know if that's all that well-founded, considering Wash U's average undergraduate GPA of 3.82.

 

[Tiddly of Winks]

Tongue in cheek

 

[themadchemist]

Tongue in cheek

ok, sorry, I'm tired. sarcasm surpasses my current faculties.

 

[Tiddly of Winks]

My bad, sometimes it's hard to tell...

Though seriously, I think I would rather play it safe: a 33/4.0 is nothing to balk at, right? If people start looking at your record, as was mentioned before, I think they'll want to see what looks "nice".

There are so many factors that contribute to this, and the nature of these criteria (and how they are weighted relative to one another) are unknown to most--including me.

With a 33/4.0, I would sleep better at night in my little gunner house in my little gunner bed knowing that adcoms would give me a fair shot. With that 45/3.3, there are simply too many questions raised for me to be comfortable: will I be automatically eliminated because of the GPA? blahblahblah and other such overachiever concerns.

🙄

 

[thegenius]

lets just say...that your 3.3 was BECAUSE you had a life..(ie. went out and got annihilated with the college buddies...slept-in...etc)..

but then...for 2 months, gave all that up and used that time as a way to destroy the mcat...

i'd say the 4.0 would be more reflective of not having a life...than a 45, which...if you think about it...can be accomplished by not having a life for a few months rather than an entire college career....

4.0 without a doubt.

Grades are accumulated over 4 years - it is quite an accomplishment. A 45 on the MCAT is also quite an accomplishment, but is less significant. There is no distinction between those who get a 40 - 45, but it is significant to have a 4.0 vs. a 3.8.

Plus, medical schools weigh your GPA more than your MCAT for those same reasons.

 

[thegenius]

I think anyone who picks 4.0 and 30 MCAT is crazy. A 30 MCAT will not get you into many schools, even if you have a 4.0 from Yale or Harvard. I bet a perfect MCAT score would make you competitive to almost any school, even with a 3.3 from a state school.

You guys put too much weight on the MCAT. GPA is better indicator of overall applicant strength.

The kicker here is it's impossible to get a 45. Nobody scored a 45 in the last two years. So you would certainly stick out in the crowd. It's hard to dispute a 4.0 - that is incredibly hard to achieve.

Here is an analogy:

Would you rather have the single-season highest batting average in baseball (assuming 500+ plate appearances), or the highest lifetime batting average?

I would take the latter, WITHOUT A DOUBT. That is way more impressive.

 

[DieselPetrolGrl]

I think anyone who picks 4.0 and 30 MCAT is crazy. A 30 MCAT will not get you into many schools, even if you have a 4.0 from Yale or Harvard. I bet a perfect MCAT score would make you competitive to almost any school, even with a 3.3 from a state school.

NO
YE ARE CRAZY
walk de plank!
school wasnt specified..walk the plank..walk the plank!

 

[Assembler]

I'd take the 4.0/33, under the condition that you come from a good school, and that your major is not in basket-weaving. If that's the case, then it shows 4 years of very solid dedication in pulling that off. What does the MCAT show? It might show some inherent intelligence, it might show that you take standardized tests well, but most of all it shows that you probably studied at most for a year (which is still somewhat crazy). A 33 is really competitive anyway.

A 45 and a 3.3 raises some concerns about the applicant. It's a very huge deviation. Maybe if you come from a really deflated school this would be excusable, but anyone who could manage a 45, I don't see why they wouldn't be able to manage at least a 3.7.

With a 4.0/33, you are basically guaranteed you will get a fair shot at every school. I'm sure this would also be the case with a 45, but the 3.3 might show some lack of work-ethic (assuming you come from a not necessarily unbearable school).

In the end...who really cares. I would take either. I'm not greedy.

All it takes is one school; that's my motto.

 

[tom_jones]

You guys put too much weight on the MCAT. GPA is better indicator of overall applicant strength.

No its not. The thing you have to see is that if getting a 4.0 is so impressive, the person should have no problem doing well on the MCAT. But you see so many people with 3.8 and above getting mid-20's on their MCAT. It just shows you don't have to be that smart to get a 4.0

 

[thegenius]

No its not. The thing you have to see is that if getting a 4.0 is so impressive, the person should have no problem doing well on the MCAT. But you see so many people with 3.8 and above getting mid-20's on their MCAT. It just shows you don't have to be that smart to get a 4.0

There are a few things wrong with your logic.

1) GPA is not tightly coupled with the MCAT (or any other standardized test.) That's the reason why the have standardized tests! If they were tightly correlated, then one could accurately predict your MCAT score from your GPA. e.g. 4.0 = 45, 3.9 = 42, 3.8 = 39, etc.

This is ostensibly not the case.

2) You do have to be "smart" to get a 4.0, if you achieve that 4.0 legitimately and you achieved it at an established collegiate university. I would argue that getting a 4.0 at the top 200 undergraduate institutions is incredibly difficult. Empirically that is true.

Overall GPA and the MCAT test different things, but both are important. I think the big reason why medical schools require the MCAT is it's probably a good (or better) indicator of how well you will do on your boards (USMLE). If there were no standardized testing after medical school, then I think the MCAT relevance is greatly mitigated.

 

[aug14]

I think the big reason why medical schools require the MCAT is it's probably a good (or better) indicator of how well you will do on your boards (USMLE). If there were no standardized testing after medical school, then I think the MCAT relevance is greatly mitigated.

I strongly disagree with that. The MCAT is intended to provide a common measuring stick that can be used to compare applicants from different universities, different course selections, and different course loads. Not that it?s truly capable of this, but that?s the goal.

The MCAT is needed because GPA is dependent on so many factors: how much study time was available (did you have a job?), did you take 4, 5, or 6 courses per semester, how did your professor scale the grades (what percent of the class got an A?).

Is an A in basic algebra-based physics better then a B+ in an intro physics class using multi-variable calculus? What if the person taking multi-variable physics only had 4 courses that semester while the other was taking 6? But what if the person taking 6 didn?t have a job while the one taking 4 worked 30 hours a week? Your best hope of making any type of accurate comparison would be to check MCAT scores.

 

[tom_jones]

You do have to be "smart" to get a 4.0, if you achieve that 4.0 legitimately and you achieved it at an established collegiate university. I would argue that getting a 4.0 at the top 200 undergraduate institutions is incredibly difficult. Empirically that is true.

You have no idea how hard or easy it is to get a 4.0 at 200 different universities. You may know how it is at 1 university, but the fact is it is easy at some universities and it it is harder at others. And you can also do things like take easy electives, and take harder classes in the summer, when the grading is easier. That is why they have a standardized test, to see if the student really learned anything with their precious 4.0. And if they don't break 30, the amswer is no.

 

[thegenius]

I strongly disagree with that. The MCAT is intended to provide a common measuring stick that can be used to compare applicants from different universities, different course selections, and different course loads. Not that it?s truly capable of this, but that?s the goal.

Can you provide me evidence that this is the charter for the MCAT?

The MCAT is needed because GPA is dependent on so many factors: how much study time was available (did you have a job?), did you take 4, 5, or 6 courses per semester, how did your professor scale the grades (what percent of the class got an A?).

Is an A in basic algebra-based physics better then a B+ in an intro physics class using multi-variable calculus? What if the person taking multi-variable physics only had 4 courses that semester while the other was taking 6? But what if the person taking 6 didn?t have a job while the one taking 4 worked 30 hours a week? Your best hope of making any type of accurate comparison would be to check MCAT scores.

Some of what you say is true - getting a 4.0 is based on several classes. But what you fail to prove is this is the reason why the MCAT is designed. The key is that it's the university's decision to weigh the 4.0 GPA in the way they want. Maybe they will look at the GPA and see that all you took was Algebra and basic History and not harder classes. But that is NOT the decision of the the MCAT.

And since when does the MCAT prove whether your 4.0 if legitimate? That is complete non-sense? All the MCAT tries to do is see if you know basic science, biology and some English comprehension. One can study for 6 months, not have taken any of those courses in school, and do well on the exam. In fact, that is like me. I was in school from 1992 - 1996 and I just took the August 2004 MCAT. I forgot the vast majority of what I learned. And it is likely that I'll score above a 30.

Now that's not a 45 but it shows you that MCAT may not strongly correlate to your GPA, nor does it "validate" it.

 

[thegenius]

You have no idea how hard or easy it is to get a 4.0 at 200 different universities. You may know how it is at 1 university, but the fact is it is easy at some universities and it it is harder at others. And you can also do things like take easy electives, and take harder classes in the summer, when the grading is easier. That is why they have a standardized test, to see if the student really learned anything with their precious 4.0. And if they don't break 30, the amswer is no.

I used the top 200 universities because they are well known institutions by the medical schools. That's correct, I don't know how hard or easy it is to get a 4.0. But I know it's harder to get a 4.0 than a 3.9, or a 3.8. Actually, it's not easy getting a 4.0. Because if it was, then say 50% of all people who graduate from a university get a 4.0.

You provide no evidence that the grading in the summer is easier. So if one were to take all of their courses in the summer, then their GPA would be higher? Not a sound premise.

Again, the MCAT is not a tool to see if your 4.0 is legitimate. The MCAT aims to show whether the student knows basic science, biolog, and english comprenhension, and also is an indicator of how well the student will perform on their boards.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

With a 33/4.0, I would sleep better at night in my little gunner house in my little gunner bed knowing that adcoms would give me a fair shot. 🙄

\

hahaha love it!!

 

[aug14]

Can you provide me evidence that this is the charter for the MCAT?

you should talk to a pre-med advisor

But what you fail to prove is this is the reason why the MCAT is designed. The key is that it's the university's decision to weigh the 4.0 GPA in the way they want. Maybe they will look at the GPA and see that all you took was Algebra and basic History and not harder classes. But that is NOT the decision of the the MCAT.

Of course its up to the university on how to weigh the GPA and MCAT - and the MCAT is given more weight (again, talk to a pre-med advisor)

And since when does the MCAT prove whether your 4.0 if legitimate? That is complete non-sense? All the MCAT tries to do is see if you know basic science, biology and some English comprehension. One can study for 6 months, not have taken any of those courses in school, and do well on the exam. In fact, that is like me. I was in school from 1992 - 1996 and I just took the August 2004 MCAT. I forgot the vast majority of what I learned. And it is likely that I'll score above a 30.

Now that's not a 45 but it shows you that MCAT may not strongly correlate to your GPA, nor does it "validate" it.

I never said the MCAT validates a GPA, that was another poster. But I wouldn't expect many people to be impressed by an applicant that has a 4.0 and 29 MCAT.

The fact is the MCAT weights more then the GPA at most schools. Some schools will overlook a poor MCAT, and rightfully so, from an applicant of a disadvantaged background - but if you're white and from the suburbs there would be no reason to overlook such a thing.

 

[aug14]

You provide no evidence that the grading in the summer is easier. So if one were to take all of their courses in the summer, then their GPA would be higher?

Summer classes are easier, at least the ones I took the past 2 summers. Everyone I know who took summer courses would agree.

 

[Jkim]

Thx, everyone for playing alone. Thank god, I didn't post this on the Pre-Allopathic [MD] Forms.

I personally would take the 4.0 (GPA) 33(MCAT). B/c I would just worry less at night, plus my top choose is UCSF/STANFORD/ UCLA (out of state) . They care more about the GPA then the MCAT.

Every one Does make good points. In the end bought are grate stats and bought would get in to a medschool (state, no Cal) 😀 🙂 😛 😉 🙄 😎

 

[DrBeanie]

Just an example...

I attend a reputable university in Connecticut. My science GPA is a 4.0. My non-science GPA is a 3.997 (stupid Effective Communication course!!)... yet, my practice MCATs have been in the mid-20's.

I've never taken a summer course, so my high GPA is not due to taking easy courses during the summer.
I've never taken less than 17 credits per semester.
I am a Chemistry major, with a Biochem concentration. I've had to go well-beyond the basics of Chemistry and Biology, by taking subjects such as Analytical Chem, Physical Chem, Ecology, Genetics, and Instrumental Chemistry.

I'm not sure which MCAT/GPA option I'd rather have... but I sure know that one's MCAT and GPA can be highly variable. Like mine.

 

[liverotcod]

Just an example...

I attend a reputable university in Connecticut. My science GPA is a 4.0. My non-science GPA is a 3.997 (stupid Effective Communication course!!)... yet, my practice MCATs have been in the mid-20's.

Given your academic preparation, you really should be scoring 30+. Really.

So this makes me curious as to what's holding you back from above-average MCAT performance. What section of the MCAT is giving you the most trouble? Also, which practice tests are you citing - test-pred company or AMCAS?

 

[DrBeanie]

None of the sections in particular is giving me trouble. I score average on all of them. I'm also not sure what is holding me back from stellar scores.

I took both Kaplan and AAMC practice tests before the August 14th MCAT. I hope the real thing goes well! 😀

 

[TheFlash]

The MCAT is like a national GPA of sorts. 45 all the way. Besides, even if a 4.0 and a 45 were equivalent, there's a no way that a 3.3 is on par with a 33. That's skewed as hell.

 

[DoogieHowserMD]

i think the gpa has a bigger first impression than the mcat..

gpa is culmination of 4+ years of hardwork, whereas mcat is a few months of studying and a lucky/unlucky test day.

 

[MoosePilot]

i think the gpa has a bigger first impression than the mcat..

gpa is culmination of 4+ years of hardwork, whereas mcat is a few months of studying and a lucky/unlucky test day.

I don't think so, not among people "in the know".

For instance, I knew a med school applicant in my graduating class with a 4.0. There wasn't anyone in the nation with a 45. So the qualification that's more common is going to cause a bigger first impression? I don't think so

 

[aug14]

There wasn't anyone in the nation with a 45.

Has anyone ever scored a 45? If so, how many people?

 

[MoosePilot]

Has anyone ever scored a 45? If so, how many people?

I don't believe anyone. We only have confirmation that nobody scored one within a certain time period. That's from one of the MCAT staff from www.e-mcat.com and is quoted on some thread here.

 

[All-Star14]

This is a biased question. Of course people with higher GPAs are going to say that having a 4.0 is better and people with high MCATs will say that having high MCAT scores are better. So what the hell?




















































I give....my reply is MCAT.

 

[MoosePilot]

This is a biased question. Of course people with higher GPAs are going to say that having a 4.0 is better and people with high MCATs will say that having high MCAT scores are better. So what the hell?

I give....my reply is MCAT.

Ok, I still disagree. Let's just use a source. We've avoided getting that serious, but this is not a total opinion question.

Let's look at the MSAR Chart 5-H pp.29.

According to the chart, of 2003 applicants with 4.0 GPAs approximately 1800 were not accepted and 6200 were. That's about 23% of these miraculous 4.0 students not accepted.

Looking at the same chart, we can't evaluate applicants with 45 composite MCAT scores because there wasn't one. However, let's look at someone with say... 36. At that composite, about 500 applicants were accepted and about 100 weren't. That's roughly the same percentages as were were looking at with 4.0 students, right?

I think it's even funny to look at how many students achieved each measure. The pool of 4.0 students = 7000, while the pool of 36 composite MCAT scores = 600ish? Does that alone say anything?

Now someone glance at the graphs and see if you think I'm reading them wrong, because I can't believe there were that many folks with a 4.0, but that's what the graph seems to say. If those numbers are right, a 4.0 isn't all that special...

 

[tank you]

Also, a low GPA does not necessarily mean the person is not smart, there could be other factors that affect gpa, such as family emergency/death, emotional problems, or laziness during the early year(s).

 

[bella_dottoressa]

I don't know what premed advisors ya'll have who think GPA means more than MCAT. I mean, I know just as much as the next person but I think that's just false.

45 MCAT would definately be more stand-outish. But I don't know...4.0 with a 33 MCAT is REALLY competitive I think. I definately have no top ten med school aspirations, so I'd probably take that. Who I am, and what I would want admissions people to think of me, is definately more of a hard-working, well-rounded, articulate, thoughtful person...NOT a supersmart, genius, 45-mcat type person.