5 year break between medical school and residency to start a family / raise kids

[aklark]

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Hi, I have scoured the internet for one case of something close to what I'm about to propose and I haven't found anything!

Does anyone have any specific thoughts/advice on taking a five year "break" to be a stay at home mom between medical school and applying successfully to residency/ internship? Has anyone done something like this? I have read about people taking one year off and the rate of acceptance into programs drops to 40%. So does this mean a five year break is basically a death sentence?

Re-entering the workforce after a long period of unemployment, even as a parent, is never easy. As people pointed out above, medicine probably has one of the steepest climbs back into the saddle due to the immense amount of information and constant need to stay current.

I would also offer that most people who are relatively happy and successful in the Type A pre-med and medical school environment will not be happy as a SAHM. It's boring and tedious.

You can take a year off during medical school with few repercussions and you can even do a part-time residency, but a 5 year hiatus is too long.

 

[DokterMom]

I would also offer that most people who are relatively happy and successful in the Type A pre-med and medical school environment will not be happy as a SAHM. It's boring and tedious..

Amen, Sister!

 

[Espadaleader]

Taking a five-year gap between medical school and residency as a US Medical Graduate (AMG) is unheard of and for all intents and purposes is not possible if you want to practice medicine in the US. There are part-time residencies available and you could find accommodations during residency training.

 

[Leslie_Knope]

Amen, Sister!

+1 I am doing the SAHM thing now and it is so hard. Boring. I love my son but I do not love being home with him all day.

 

[DermViser]

Probably. It's not my problem if they can't discriminate between facts and personal beliefs.

👍

 

[switch17]

I'm not applying until next cycle, so I don't know how much "weight" my advice holds, but from what I have gathered, I think that would be a bad move if you truly want to become a physician. However, no matter how much time/money you've spent on med school, if being home with babies is more important to you, walk away from medicine and live the life that YOU want. I married really young and wanted a family. It was really important to me to be home with my babies until school, but I didn't want to waste 6 years that I needed to invest in my career. I majored in Psychology and had 2 kids 2 years apart while in school. I only had to be away 2 days a week and had all summers, weekends, holidays, etc with them. I wouldn't trade it for anything! So I understand your desire. We have a family doctor who works at a clinic and we see another doc anytime he is on vacation or what have you and the ped we saw once was fresh out of residency and pregnant. She took off for a little while when she had her baby. None of the doctors there work 5 days a week. If you find the right practice, you can have a more family friendly career with more flexible hours.

 

[kyamh]

My mom "took" a 10 year gap between finishing medical school in a foreign country and entering a US residency. Frankly, her Step scores weren't that great but she matched on her first try n =1

It's definitely possible, but there are better ways to plan your family...ways that don't mess with your education. Why don't you visit some forums out there, Google motherhood and medicine or something similar, and read about other women's experiences.

You have to remember that planning your family is never simple. You may think now that you want to take 5 years off. Is that because you want to raise 1 child to the age of 5? How many kids do you want? How do you know you will actually want this many? What if you have triplets? What if you have trouble conceiving? What if you (like many, many women) have a miscarriage? What if you have a child that is born with special needs? What if you are unable to have children, for whatever reason, and have to wait 1+ years to be matched with an adoptive child? What you if don't feel "ready" when the "right" year comes. What if your partner loses his or her job?

 

[DermViser]

I'm not saying your passion is facetious or that your post makes you a hypocrite in anyway. I'm just saying for you to personally attack somebody asking for advice (originally not in pre-allo) is something that seems to be quite common in this forum amongst some of the hopeful (and possibly bitter if they're re-applying) pre-meds, which is the main reason that I don't view/post in this forum. The only reason I'm doing so now is because I keep getting alerts, but I originally replied to this in a different forum.

👍. It's the modus operandi here. It's probably why very few people from Allopathic and other forums come to Pre-Allopathic to help those with real questions bc 9 times out of 10, they just really want a parroting of their opinion or preconceived notions they already have. There are some notable exceptions who aren't that way though.

 

[DermViser]

Amen, Sister!

Is that you in your avatar?

 

[DermViser]

My mom "took" a 10 year gap between finishing medical school in a foreign country and entering a US residency. Frankly, her Step scores weren't that great but she matched on her first try n =1

It's definitely possible, but there are better ways to plan your family...ways that don't mess with your education. Why don't you visit some forums out there, Google motherhood and medicine or something similar, and read about other women's experiences.

You have to remember that planning your family is never simple. You may think now that you want to take 5 years off. Is that because you want to raise 1 child to the age of 5? How many kids do you want? How do you know you will actually want this many? What if you have triplets? What if you have trouble conceiving? What if you (like many, many women) have a miscarriage? What if you have a child that is born with special needs? What if you are unable to have children, for whatever reason, and have to wait 1+ years to be matched with an adoptive child? What you if don't feel "ready" when the "right" year comes. What if your partner loses his or her job?

When did she enter residency though?

 

[DermViser]

Taking a five-year gap between medical school and residency as a US Medical Graduate (AMG) is unheard of and for all intents and purposes is not possible if you want to practice medicine in the US. There are part-time residencies available and you could find accommodations during residency training.

I'm curious where these are?

 

[UImom]

Has nothing to do with biological clocks. All the data and research support this. Women are MUCH more likely to work "part-time".

Usually I am solidly with you but this is SO wrong. Your definitions of work and priorities need to be re-evaluated. I know several successful medical women 35-62 with no significant other and no children. And 2 using in vitro because they've waited so long. As I influence a daughter, hopefully one day the mother of my grandchildren, which job do you think I hold more dear? If a person bails on their parenting no career achievements will make up for that loss. A balanced life is NOT working part time unless measured by men.

 

[DermViser]

Usually I am solidly with you but this is SO wrong. Your definitions of work and priorities need to be re-evaluated. I know several successful medical women 35-62 with no significant other and no children. And 2 using in vitro because they've waited so long. As I influence a daughter, hopefully one day the mother of my grandchildren, which job do you think I hold more dear? If a person bails on their parenting no career achievements will make up for that loss. A balanced life is NOT working part time unless measured by men.

Um, what are you talking about? Females in medicine doing in vitro due to waiting too long makes for great anecdotes but isn't the rule.

 

[aklark]

I'm curious where these are?

Here's a couple that offer reduced schedules after intern year:

http://www.psych.med.umich.edu/education/general_psychiatry/

http://pediatrics.iu.edu/residency/frequently-asked-questions/

This article says ~25% of pedatrics residencies offer this option:
http://www.newsweek.com/health-matters-get-life-doc-85045

 

[Aerus]

Usually I am solidly with you but this is SO wrong. Your definitions of work and priorities need to be re-evaluated. I know several successful medical women 35-62 with no significant other and no children. And 2 using in vitro because they've waited so long. As I influence a daughter, hopefully one day the mother of my grandchildren, which job do you think I hold more dear? If a person bails on their parenting no career achievements will make up for that loss. A balanced life is NOT working part time unless measured by men.

The sample you see in your own life isn't necessarily representative of the population. The truth is that, on average, women are more likely to work less hours than men, work part-time, and retire earlier. It's not a sexist opinion, but a sociological trend supported by ample statistical evidence. Reasons behind this trend are most likely related to the culture and society in which we live in.

 

[UImom]

T

Um, what are you talking about? Females in medicine doing in vitro due to waiting too long makes for great anecdotes but isn't the rule.

Hopefully not but really there are no rules. There are people making decisions based on competition and short term realities. Women need to be aware, when choosing a specialty that may take all their focus that at the same time they are asked to give their all there may be another greater pull for their attention and energy so they can plan accordingly.
Women are making up a greater percentage of medical students than before and the stats will be in flux for a while.
My point was that women aren't working part-time when they parent and work in their field. It's really more like time and a half - just not recognized by people who see their own work as what counts.

 

[DermViser]

T
Hopefully not but really there are no rules. There are people making decisions based on competition and short term realities. Women need to be aware, when choosing a specialty that may take all their focus that at the same time they are asked to give their all there may be another greater pull for their attention and energy so they can plan accordingly.
Women are making up a greater percentage of medical students than before and the stats will be in flux for a while.
My point was that women aren't working part-time when they parent and work in their field. It's really more like time and a half - just not recognized by people who see their own work as what counts.

Seriously, I have no idea what you are talking about. I never said raising a child is not work.

 

[UImom]

Seriously, I have no idea what you are talking about. I never said raising a child is not work.

I apologize for any antagonism. Knee jerk reaction that women (and men) need to feel comfortable making parenting decisions and can't afford to let other people's priorities diminish that. Show me a stat about women working less hours than men and I see a life behind it. My character flaw and issue, not yours.

I really do enjoy your contributions here and thank you.

 

[Winged Scapula]

I apologize for any antagonism. Knee jerk reaction that women (and men) need to feel comfortable making parenting decisions and can't afford to let other people's priorities diminish that. Show me a stat about women working less hours than men and I see a life behind it. My character flaw and issue, not yours.

I really do enjoy your contributions here and thank you.

I think its fair to clarify that when we're talking about "work" here, we are referring to professional paid employment as a physician. So when I say that women work fewer hours and retire earlier, I'm talking about from their work as a physician.

Now if you want to include childrearing, housework, volunteering, x, y and z as "work", that's fine, and I agree, women do work more hours than men. Data to support that as well. But that's a whole separate issue that I don't think anyone was arguing here.

 

[DokterMom]

Is that you in your avatar?

Right back at ya --

 

[DermViser]

I apologize for any antagonism. Knee jerk reaction that women (and men) need to feel comfortable making parenting decisions and can't afford to let other people's priorities diminish that. Show me a stat about women working less hours than men and I see a life behind it. My character flaw and issue, not yours.

I really do enjoy your contributions here and thank you.

No problem. Thanks for apologizing. I was referring to actual professional paid employment, as Winged Scapula mentioned below. This isn't a moral judgement on my part, at all. I think women should be feel free to be employed as an attending part time, if they are able to find it, and not feel guilty for the decisions that they make in that regard. Physicians are not society's indentured servants any more than dentists, pharmacists, optometrists, etc.

 

[DermViser]

Right back at ya --

LOL! No, it isn't. Just thinking how cool it would be to have the person in your avatar as my doctor. The one in my avatar has trouble getting a complete history and circling the right billing code. Have to talk to her about that.

 

[mehc012]

The above is a very contentious thought but its a real concern: as nearly 50% of some medical schools being comprised of women, are we facing a generation of physicians who work part time or leave medicine after a few years? I can't help but think that is going to create havoc for our society.

Not all women want to be stay-at-home moms. Or even moms at all.
I know what you mean, but this sentiment always bothers me.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Not all women want to be stay-at-home moms. Or even moms at all.
I know what you mean, but this sentiment always bothers me.

What sentiment is that (and are you ascribing it to me)?

As someone who is childless by choice, I think it's fairly clear what I think about the issue in regards to me.

 

[Great White Buffalo]

Residency with kids is pretty common now. My dad is at an academic med center, and lots of his residents/fellows (and even faculty members) are having kids, and the University is pretty supportive. Wouldn't recommend you take time off between med school and residency, just pick a residency program where you see lots of folks with kids, and you'll know they are supportive.

 

[DokterMom]

Balancing challenging professional work with kids is tough -- really tough. (Of course, balancing poorly-paid non-professional work with kids is also tough.)
But it's not until we stop framing it as a 'women's issue' that society will do anything about it. It's an issue that affects everyone -- that needs to affect everyone.

I read an interesting article the other day talking about 'pre-pregnancy agreements'. Similar to a pre-nup, a pre-preg would outline the expected 'Who will do what' expectations before a couple commits to having children. Will one partner stay home? Work part-time? Will both work full-time? Will someone's career be 'primary' and the other 'the designated one to suffer' when the child's needs interfere? Or will the parents take turns? Do they envision having a nanny? Middle-of-the-night feedings? Sick kids? If one parent becomes a stay-at-home caretaker, is that a permanent or time-limited decision? And what is the financial responsibility of the 'primary career' spouse to the SAH spouse in the event of a divorce?

Big issues. And I would not consider procreating with anyone who was not willing to discuss them clearly up-front and agree on a plan.
Of course, life laughs at such plans, but they're good to have in any case...

 

[Leslie_Knope]

Balancing challenging professional work with kids is tough -- really tough. (Of course, balancing poorly-paid non-professional work with kids is also tough.)
But it's not until we stop framing it as a 'women's issue' that society will do anything about it. It's an issue that affects everyone -- that needs to affect everyone.

I read an interesting article the other day talking about 'pre-pregnancy agreements'. Similar to a pre-nup, a pre-preg would outline the expected 'Who will do what' expectations before a couple commits to having children. Will one partner stay home? Work part-time? Will both work full-time? Will someone's career be 'primary' and the other 'the designated one to suffer' when the child's needs interfere? Or will the parents take turns? Do they envision having a nanny? Middle-of-the-night feedings? Sick kids? If one parent becomes a stay-at-home caretaker, is that a permanent or time-limited decision? And what is the financial responsibility of the 'primary career' spouse to the SAH spouse in the event of a divorce?

Big issues. And I would not consider procreating with anyone who was not willing to discuss them clearly up-front and agree on a plan.
Of course, life laughs at such plans, but they're good to have in any case...

Very interesting! It's true much of family life cannot be planned. But it is so important to talk about these things before bringing another family member into the world. I do wonder if OP has her partner yet or not. Medical school graduation is over four years away. She may likely feel differently at the end of things.

 

[ridethecliche]

If you knew me in real life, you would know that I am very vocal about feminist issues and gender equality, but I disagree with this. There's a lot of evidence that show that women are more likely to work less than their male counterparts. It's not an "assumption on female motives because of their biological clocks"; it's a statistical trend.

Now, how much this has to do with social norms and the lack of institutionalized paternity leave is another story.
Child rearing responsibilities still fall unequally on women, even if they are in a heterosexual partnership. This is changing, but that's the norm.

Sure there's a trend, but that can often have less to do with 'being a women' than it does with society's expectations of both mothers and fathers.

 

[Aerus]

Now, how much this has to do with social norms and the lack of institutionalized paternity leave is another story.
Child rearing responsibilities still fall unequally on women, even if they are in a heterosexual partnership. This is changing, but that's the norm.

Sure there's a trend, but that can often have less to do with 'being a women' than it does with society's expectations of both mothers and fathers.

Agreed. As I said above, culture is a huge culprit to this sociological trend.

 

[mehc012]

What sentiment is that (and are you ascribing it to me)?

As someone who is childless by choice, I think it's fairly clear what I think about the issue in regards to me.

Just the whole "the workforce is going to be ruined because 99% of women just want to work part time so they can have kids" thing. Regardless of whether you apply it to yourself, you've brought up that concern multiple times.

 

[evilbooyaa]

Just the whole "the workforce is going to be ruined because 99% of women just want to work part time so they can have kids" thing. Regardless of whether you apply it to yourself, you've brought up that concern multiple times.

I think you're over-reacting to what WS said. In the past, medical schools were not even close to 50% female, so even if 99% of females eventually became stay at home moms or worked part-time, it wouldn't matter as much as it would today (where females are ~50%), even if the percentage of females who transition to SAH mom or part-time is like 75%.

I'm not saying any of this is going to happen, but it's a matter of relative (percentage of women who will go part time will likely decrease) vs absolute (total # of women in medicine increasing)

 

[mehc012]

I think you're over-reacting to what WS said. In the past, medical schools were not even close to 50% female, so even if 99% of females eventually became stay at home moms or worked part-time, it wouldn't matter as much as it would today (where females are ~50%), even if the percentage of females who transition to SAH mom or part-time is like 75%.

I'm not saying any of this is going to happen, but it's a matter of relative (percentage of women who will go part time will likely decrease) vs absolute (total # of women in medicine increasing)

I...didn't react that strongly? I merely commented that I dislike the sentiment that more women in the workforce is a problem because so many of them will go part time to be moms. I don't like your version of it any better. It opens a lot of doors I'm leery of.

 

[DarknightX]

OP's original post is ridiculous.

People want to have their cake and eat it, too. You can't have everything in life. You have to choose what is most important to you.

Taking any time off in between med school and residency is an absolutely horrible idea.

 

[DarknightX]

So why doesn't society wake up and do something about it! Great (and affordable) child care is a priority for many countries -- most of northern Europe and Australia in particular -- as is parental leave for fathers, both of which free up more productive time for women to contribute their talents to society while knowing their children are being well cared for.

Certainly, on a physician's salary, good childcare will be affordable for you, whether that means a private nanny, high quality daycare, in-home care, or stay-at-home spouse.
But a physician's career is not one that can be half-a$$ed, any more than raising children can.

Why should society be responsible for raising other people's children?

And on that note, I can't understand why people have children and have other people raise them. The residents I work with who have had children take a few weeks of maternity leave, then pay some nanny to raise their kids for them. They maybe spend a couple hours a week with their kids at best. Usually dad/mom also has a full time career. Honestly, what's the point??

 

[mehc012]

Why should society be responsible for raising other people's children?

And on that note, I can't understand why people have children and have other people raise them. The residents I work with who have had children take a few weeks of maternity leave, then pay some nanny to raise their kids for them. They maybe spend a couple hours a week with their kids at best. Usually dad/mom also has a full time career. Honestly, what's the point??

I guess you still get to decide how the child is raised, broad-strokes-wise.

Personally, as someone who doesn't plan to have kids, I have no problem supporting/raising other people's children. Kids are the future. I think of it this way: I want driven, successful people to be able to reproduce and instill their values on another generation. Society needs more cut from that cloth. However, for that to happen, we need to have an environment conducive to balancing both roles.

 

[Instatewaiter]

Agreed. I am quite confident that there are some pre-meds who consider you sexist towards women, WS, for making comments like this.

And IIRC, WS is a woman. And as everyone knows, women can't be sexist.

Um, what are you talking about? Females in medicine doing in vitro due to waiting too long makes for great anecdotes but isn't the rule.

Strongly agreed. I can think of multiple female co-residents who had kids during residency, the natural way. There are ways to get it done during the end of med school (4th year is a good time) or residency.

Another option for the OP is
1) to have kids and then go to med school
2) do a clinical psychology degree and work part time after

 

[DokterMom]

Why should society be responsible for raising other people's children?

And on that note, I can't understand why people have children and have other people raise them. The residents I work with who have had children take a few weeks of maternity leave, then pay some nanny to raise their kids for them. They maybe spend a couple hours a week with their kids at best. Usually dad/mom also has a full time career. Honestly, what's the point??

I don't expect you will understand, but I can't let this ignorant comment go unanswered...

Society is not and should not be "responsible for raising other people's children". What a civilized society should be is supportive of families raising their own. What that means is having and/or putting policies and structures into place that allow people to both raise happy and healthy children and pursue meaningful professional lives. This means being supportive of well-trained childcare providers who are paid a living wage and treated with a modicum of respect. Governments provide schools to educate older children; why not subsidize high-quality childcare centers to help educate younger children? (It works very well in the countries that do this -- again, most of northern Europe and Australia.) It's also a great social equalizer, providing better pre-literacy and socialization opportunities (and long-term upward SES mobility) for the children of lower SES families.

Why do they "pay some nanny?" Because really great childcare is hard to find (see above), and they judge this to be the best option. In some situations, it can be. Having a uterus doesn't automatically mean that a woman is temperamentally well-suited to staying home and raising babies. I was not. (But the nanny I hired was.) Turns out I was a much better mother 14 hours a day than 24, and my children are the better for it. So is my career, my marriage, and certainly, my family's financial security.

"Honestly, what's the point?" The point of having children? The point of having a demanding and rewarding career? Or the point of not doing it your way...?

 

[DarknightX]

I don't expect you will understand, but I can't let this ignorant comment go unanswered...

Society is not and should not be "responsible for raising other people's children". What a civilized society should be is supportive of families raising their own. What that means is having and/or putting policies and structures into place that allow people to both raise happy and healthy children and pursue meaningful professional lives. This means being supportive of well-trained childcare providers who are paid a living wage and treated with a modicum of respect. Governments provide schools to educate older children; why not subsidize high-quality childcare centers to help educate younger children? (It works very well in the countries that do this -- again, most of northern Europe and Australia.) It's also a great social equalizer, providing better pre-literacy and socialization opportunities (and long-term upward SES mobility) for the children of lower SES families.

Only ignorant because you're in disagreement. There's a difference between paying for schools and having my tax dollars pay for your nanny. I don't think anyone can argue against the fact that civilized society should be supportive of families, but if you can't afford to pay for your nanny, then perhaps you shouldn't have children. Our tax money already goes into enough stupidity. Also spare me about how great the European countries are...their model of social economic spending is hardly one to be desired.

Why do they "pay some nanny?" Because really great childcare is hard to find (see above), and they judge this to be the best option. In some situations, it can be. Having a uterus doesn't automatically mean that a woman is temperamentally well-suited to staying home and raising babies. I was not. (But the nanny I hired was.) Turns out I was a much better mother 14 hours a day than 24, and my children are the better for it. So is my career, my marriage, and certainly, my family's financial security.

So you're admittedly not good at being a mom, so you have children, and then pay someone else to raise them. Makes perfect logical sense to me.

"Honestly, what's the point?" The point of having children? The point of having a demanding and rewarding career? Or the point of not doing it your way...?

I believe the point of having children is to pass on your knowledge, morals, and beliefs to the next generation within a family setting. Not sure how much people are teaching or influencing their kids if the nanny/daycare/tv is doing all the teaching. Maybe the fact that people's children are being raised by other people is contributing to the increasing lack of morality that we see in society?? I'm sure I'm going to get destroyed on here, but how much are you teaching your kids (not you specifically) if you barely spend any time with them?

I'll now patiently wait to get flamed by all the women here.

 

[DarknightX]

I guess you still get to decide how the child is raised, broad-strokes-wise.

Personally, as someone who doesn't plan to have kids, I have no problem supporting/raising other people's children. Kids are the future. I think of it this way: I want driven, successful people to be able to reproduce and instill their values on another generation. Society needs more cut from that cloth. However, for that to happen, we need to have an environment conducive to balancing both roles.

Sure. I have no problem raising other people's children either. There are plenty of foster children that need a good home. I'd much rather pay my tax money to helping those children in need than subsidizing some yuppie couple's nanny.

 

[DokterMom]

What makes you think the government is subsidizing anyone's nanny?
Or is that how including contraceptive coverage in health insurance became "paying women to have sex"?

 

[nlax30]

DarknightX: Did your parents work?

And I'm assuming you don't have kids. You're more than welcome to your opinion but I don't think you're being a little ridiculous in some of your reasoning there.

So it's either all or nothing? So if I'm not home full time with my kids I'm not "passing on my morals and knowledge"? This is even forgetting that once they hit school age they'll be spending a good chunk of their time in school anyway, so really we're just talking about the first few years here.

My wife and I both work full time and pay for child care. Yet I am more than confident that we are passing along our morals, knowledge, character and work ethic to our children.

 

[mehc012]

I don't expect you will understand, but I can't let this ignorant comment go unanswered...

Society is not and should not be "responsible for raising other people's children". What a civilized society should be is supportive of families raising their own. What that means is having and/or putting policies and structures into place that allow people to both raise happy and healthy children and pursue meaningful professional lives. This means being supportive of well-trained childcare providers who are paid a living wage and treated with a modicum of respect. Governments provide schools to educate older children; why not subsidize high-quality childcare centers to help educate younger children? (It works very well in the countries that do this -- again, most of northern Europe and Australia.) It's also a great social equalizer, providing better pre-literacy and socialization opportunities (and long-term upward SES mobility) for the children of lower SES families.

Why do they "pay some nanny?" Because really great childcare is hard to find (see above), and they judge this to be the best option. In some situations, it can be. Having a uterus doesn't automatically mean that a woman is temperamentally well-suited to staying home and raising babies. I was not. (But the nanny I hired was.) Turns out I was a much better mother 14 hours a day than 24, and my children are the better for it. So is my career, my marriage, and certainly, my family's financial security.

"Honestly, what's the point?" The point of having children? The point of having a demanding and rewarding career? Or the point of not doing it your way...?

I keep trying, but I cannot "Like" this enough.

 

[DarknightX]

DarknightX: Did your parents work?

And I'm assuming you don't have kids. You're more than welcome to your opinion but I don't think you're being a little ridiculous in some of your reasoning there.

So it's either all or nothing? So if I'm not home full time with my kids I'm not "passing on my morals and knowledge"? This is even forgetting that once they hit school age they'll be spending a good chunk of their time in school anyway, so really we're just talking about the first few years here.

My wife and I both work full time and pay for child care. Yet I am more than confident that we are passing along our morals, knowledge, character and work ethic to our children.

Single mom. She most definitely worked. We definitely would have came out better if someone had kept an eye on us...we did so much bad s*** as kids.

I'm just honestly wondering out loud and throwing it out there. I'm a surgery resident, so my viewpoint is a little extreme. When I see my colleagues who work and get home at 9 or 10 pm, and then come back in at 6 am and sprinkle in some call, how much quality time are you spending with the kid?

 

[DokterMom]

Single mom. She most definitely worked. We definitely would have came out better if someone had kept an eye on us...we did so much bad s*** as kids.

I'm just honestly wondering out loud and throwing it out there. I'm a surgery resident, so my viewpoint is a little extreme. When I see my colleagues who work and get home at 9 or 10 pm, and then come back in at 6 am and sprinkle in some call, how much quality time are you spending with the kid?

OK - So imagine that hospital were a more supportive environment. Imagine they had an on-site daycare there and that those surgical residents' kids could go there and be well cared for while their parent(s) worked those crazy hours. Imagine Mom or Dad could stop by the day care a few times a day during those rare quiet periods? Imagine the daycare center opened early and stayed open late? And that they had a special section for kids who were 'just a little bit sick'. Wouldn't that help the parents be better parents? Wouldn't that help the kids grow into better kids? This is a good thing! (I'm not suggesting that 12-hour a day day care is the world's best way to raise kids -- just that it's better than what many face now.)

 

[DarknightX]

OK - So imagine that hospital were a more supportive environment. Imagine they had an on-site daycare there and that those surgical residents' kids could go there and be well cared for while their parent(s) worked those crazy hours. Imagine Mom or Dad could stop by the day care a few times a day during those rare quiet periods? Imagine the daycare center opened early and stayed open late? And that they had a special section for kids who were 'just a little bit sick'. Wouldn't that help the parents be better parents? Wouldn't that help the kids grow into better kids? This is a good thing! (I'm not suggesting that 12-hour a day day care is the world's best way to raise kids -- just that it's better than what many face now.)

Good point. I see what you're trying to say. Well done, I agree.

 

[wholeheartedly]

Also worth noting, and someone (@Winged Scapula perhaps) correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't there rules about how much time can lapse between taking Step 1 and completing Step 3? or something like that? I'm not sure if it's that's at the state level or higher, but I'm pretty sure I remember something like that causing problems for people who willingly or had to take off extended periods of time.



edit * here found it: http://www.usmle.org/bulletin/eligibility/

The USMLE program recommends to medical licensing authorities that they:

• require that the dates of passing the Step 1, Step 2, and Step 3 examinations occur within a seven-year period; and
• allow no more than six attempts to pass each Step or Step Component without demonstration of additional educational experience acceptable to the medical licensing authority

So if you do Step 1 at the end of second year, and Step two at the end of fourth year that's two years used up. Then 5 years off and you've hit your 7 and you aren't eligible to take Step three until you've completed 1 year of residency. So you would be screwed for licensing.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Just the whole "the workforce is going to be ruined because 99% of women just want to work part time so they can have kids" thing. Regardless of whether you apply it to yourself, you've brought up that concern multiple times.

1) please show me where I've brought up that concern "multiple times"

ONCE, I said, in correcting another user, that women work fewer hours, for less years and retire earlier than men. This is not an opinion.

2) I said in reference to the above, that with a higher number of women in medical school, that presuming that those women will adhere to the above observed work pattern, that we may have problems down the line with health care coverage by physicians. This is not something I made up nor am I the first to express such a concern. Whether or not you believe there is currently a physician shortage vs a distribution problem, it will only get worse if a certain percentage (but higher than what currently exists) choose to work part time or not at all.

Note that never once did I state that women working or having children was ruining society or the work force.

2) please understand the difference between me stating a FACT that women work less hours than men and me having any sort of opinion about it which affects *you*.

Not that I have to defend myself, but I believe it a good thing to have women in medicine; one of the reasons I chose the residency program I did was because of its emphasis on increasing the number of women in surgery.

You are making unfounded assumptions and characterizing me as something and someone that I am not. I'll ask you kindly to refrain from doing so.

 

[nlax30]

Single mom. She most definitely worked. We definitely would have came out better if someone had kept an eye on us...we did so much bad s*** as kids.

I'm just honestly wondering out loud and throwing it out there. I'm a surgery resident, so my viewpoint is a little extreme. When I see my colleagues who work and get home at 9 or 10 pm, and then come back in at 6 am and sprinkle in some call, how much quality time are you spending with the kid?

I agree it's tough and I'm sure some people just can not stroke a balance and ultimately the kids and/or marriage/ family suffers.

I'm a fellow and I've had days and weeks where I've seen my kids for a few minutes at night or not all during the week. Fortunately this is only a temporary phase and my family realizes the reason is it provide for us.

 

[wholeheartedly]

I did get the impression that part of mehc012's concern is the perception or stereotype that can come along with those statistics.

I'm a strong advocate for both women and nontrads in medicine despite the arguments about quantity of time practiced, because I believe quality of care provided is extremely important. Better quality of care ultimately reduces the quantity of care needed, thus potentially balancing out the issue.

But as someone who most likely won't be having children, I am a little leery of having some future program director or boss think that I'm going to be a pain in the butt or not pull my weight or want to drop my hours just because I'm female and the tendency is for females to work less when that won't apply to me.

 

[Law2Doc]

I did get the impression that part of mehc012's concern is the perception or stereotype that can come along with those statistics.

I'm a strong advocate for both women and nontrads in medicine despite the arguments about quantity of time practiced, because I believe quality of care provided is extremely important. Better quality of care ultimately reduces the quantity of care needed, thus potentially balancing out the issue.

But as someone who most likely won't be having children, I am a little leery of having some future program director or boss think that I'm going to be a pain in the butt or not pull my weight or want to drop my hours just because I'm female and the tendency is for females to work less when that won't apply to me.

Most PDs don't think that way ( and it's illegal if they do). But on the flip side, in medicine, i think we've all experienced the female colleague who leaves for maternity leave and never comes back. We can't just pretend that never happens.