519 is the new “36”

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Not to be a Debbie downer - but a 519 converted to a 36 last year as well.
 
So what? A 36 and a 519 are both excellent scores that won't bar you from admission to any school.

High school teachers are sorely needed, however.
 
Its pretty crazy how the standards have changed. The median now is a ~31.5. So a 519 places you marginally above that mark. Crazy that a 519 a couple years ago meant you really killed the mcat.
 
vrazzles said:
So what? A 36 and a 519 are both excellent scores that won't bar you from admission to any school.

High school teachers are sorely needed, however.
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1) You missed the point

2) Not for teaching biology
 
TheBiologist said:
actually high school teachers are needed especially in the sciences, because if you are good at science why would you become a high school teacher (the pay is not good) when you can go into engineering or something
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It's possible to be a decent high school science teacher and yet not excel at science to the level necessary to be an MD or PhD. High school science is pretty basic, even at the AP level. The best science teacher I had (AP Chem) got a 26 on the MCAT.
 
LoveBeingHuman:) said:
It's possible to be a decent high school science teacher and yet not excel at science to the level necessary to be an MD or PhD. High school science is pretty basic, even at the AP level. The best science teacher I had (AP Chem) got a 26 on the MCAT.
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I definitely agree it is possible to be an excellent teacher as you say, what I'm saying is that it's becoming harder and harder for high schools to find science teachers because people are choosing not to become teachers

also, an MCAT score says nothing about your aptitude in science considering all of the factors that go into studying for it
 
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Am I the only one that thinks having a dynamic scale for score conversions that changes based on percentile is stupid?

Eventually a 527 is going to be the new 39.

If you took the exam in 2015 and made a 508, which was a 30.5, then you made a 30.5 in my eyes. Not the 27 that your 508 is going to be in a decade. I get the underlying idea, but a 508 is worth less now than it was in the past because 30s just don't mean as much anymore, not because this score is somehow intrinsically worse than it was previously. If you earned a 508, you still got a higher percentage of questions correct than someone with a 27 (probably? probably).
 
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LoveBeingHuman:) said:
It's possible to be a decent high school science teacher and yet not excel at science to the level necessary to be an MD or PhD. High school science is pretty basic, even at the AP level. The best science teacher I had (AP Chem) got a 26 on the MCAT.
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The best doctor I know got a 26.
 
7331poas said:
Its pretty crazy how the standards have changed. The median now is a ~31.5. So a 519 places you marginally above that mark. Crazy that a 519 a couple years ago meant you really killed the mcat.
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a 519 is not marginally above a 31.5...It's like >15 percentage points higher. A massive difference. A 519 is still a really good score. In fact, given that '520' appears to be the new target median for the number ******, the bar for having a top-echelon score has been very slightly lowered. The only insanity is that there can be schools that care about the difference between being in the top 5% vs. the top 2% of scorers.
 
Lucca said:
a 519 is not marginally above a 31.5...It's like >15 percentage points higher. A massive difference. A 519 is still a really good score. In fact, given that '520' appears to be the new target median for the number ******, the bar for having a top-echelon score has been very slightly lowered. The only insanity is that there can be schools that care about the difference between being in the top 5% vs. the top 2% of scorers.
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And yet schools are continuously moving that direction. Its easy to say that they don't care about top 2% versus top 5% when just a few years ago the question was top 10% versus top 5% and so forth.
 
7331poas said:
And yet schools are continuously moving that direction. Its easy to say that they don't care about top 2% versus top 5% when just a few years ago the question was top 10% versus top 5% and so forth.
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There was a very sudden jump about 12 years ago or so (@efle has looked at this more carefully than me) that led to the current stats arms race. Before that 33 was the bar to clear, it jumped suddenly to 36 and it has stayed relatively stable at 36 over the years. The matriculant average has slowly creeped upward but dipped again with the introduction of the new exam. Until there is a much more robust, holistic way to categorize applicants this is the trend that will dominate, unfortunately.
 
Isoval said:
Am I the only one that thinks having a dynamic scale for score conversions that changes based on percentile is stupid?

Eventually a 527 is going to be the new 39.

If you took the exam in 2015 and made a 508, which was a 30.5, then you made a 30.5 in my eyes. Not the 27 that your 508 is going to be in a decade. I get the underlying idea, but a 508 is worth less now than it was in the past because 30s just don't mean as much anymore, not because this score is somehow intrinsically worse than it was previously. If you earned a 508, you still got a higher percentage of questions correct than someone with a 27 (probably? probably).
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In a decade it won't matter. Your MCAT score stops mattering the second you start med school.
 
Lucca said:
There was a very sudden jump about 12 years ago or so (@efle has looked at this more carefully than me) that led to the current stats arms race. Before that 33 was the bar to clear, it jumped suddenly to 36 and it has stayed relatively stable at 36 over the years. The matriculant average has slowly creeped upward but dipped again with the introduction of the new exam. Until there is a much more robust, holistic way to categorize applicants this is the trend that will dominate, unfortunately.
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The trend might flatten or reverse slightly if the number of applicants declines further in future years. I don't really know if that's expected to happen but it did dip a little (from about 52,000 to 50,000 I think) from 2016-2017 to 2017-2018 for the first time in years.
 
7331poas said:
Its pretty crazy how the standards have changed. The median now is a ~31.5. So a 519 places you marginally above that mark. Crazy that a 519 a couple years ago meant you really killed the mcat.
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A 519 still means you really killed the MCAT!
 
stickgirl390 said:
I’m a high school teacher, got a 505, got an MD acceptance, AND my parents are super impressed. Can you say #winning?
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thats-what-winning.jpg
 
It's just weird that a 519 is equivalent to a 36 and that's the median for a good majority of T20 schools. But you have to get a 130 on every section section, which is 2 points below perfect.
 
LoveBeingHuman:) said:
It's just weird that a 519 is equivalent to a 36 and that's the median for a good majority of T20 schools. But you have to get a 130 on every section section, which is 2 points below perfect.
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It makes sense though. Medicine is becoming a more lucrative field and the competition is increasing. A 519 is still top 96% or whatever. The median is increasing at these schools because more competitive people are applying. I cannot imagine what the stats of some of these schools will be like ten years from now!
 
thegrind33 said:
It makes sense though. Medicine is becoming a more lucrative field and the competition is increasing. A 519 is still top 96% or whatever. The median is increasing at these schools because more competitive people are applying. I cannot imagine what the stats of some of these schools will be like ten years from now!
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The problem is that AAMC is increasing percentage of candidates getting top scores. A 518 went from being in the 97 percentile to being in the 96 percentile, which means that 4% of test takes have a 518 rather than 3%. So med schools are increasing medians, sure. But I also think that more top scores are being given out.
 
LoveBeingHuman:) said:
The problem is that AAMC is increasing percentage of candidates getting top scores. A 518 went from being in the 97 percentile to being in the 96 percentile, which means that 4% of test takes have a 518 rather than 3%. So med schools are increasing medians, sure. But I also think that more top scores are being given out.
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I think the updated MSAR gave more problematic news than the percentile decreases did, lol.
 
altblue said:
I think the updated MSAR gave more problematic news to most people than the percentile decreases, lol.
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THIS. One of my top schools I have been aiming for had an old mcat median of 31, their new median is a 513 (old 33 I guess?), so the stats are for sure going up.
 
thegrind33 said:
THIS. One of my top schools I have been aiming for had an old mcat median of 31, their new median is a 513 (old 33 I guess?), so the stats are for sure going up.
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Yeah it's at least recently getting more stats-heavy at the top. Only Wash U had a 38/521 for the past few years... now Yale, NYU, Vandy have it too
 
LoveBeingHuman:) said:
The problem is that AAMC is increasing percentage of candidates getting top scores. A 518 went from being in the 97 percentile to being in the 96 percentile, which means that 4% of test takes have a 518 rather than 3%. So med schools are increasing medians, sure. But I also think that more top scores are being given out.
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I think there are also a ton more resources available these days to do well, especially for disadvantaged status. So naturally there should be more students doing well. All you need now a days is an internet connection. Done, you have everything you really need for the MCAT, except AAMC material which is not that expensive.

Schools are having higher medians every year for GPA and MCAT. However, it'd be nice to see if applicants are also getting higher grades and MCAT. I'm getting a sense that these days, there are so many resources and opportunities to do exceedingly well, with the internet and all. Plus, grade inflation.
 
premstudent said:
I think there are also a ton more resources available these days to do well, especially for disadvantaged status. So naturally there should be more students doing well. All you need now a days is an internet connection. Done, you have everything you really need for the MCAT, except AAMC material which is not that expensive.

Schools are having higher medians every year for GPA and MCAT. However, it'd be nice to see if applicants are also getting higher grades and MCAT. I'm getting a sense that these days, there are so many resources and opportunities to do exceedingly well, with the internet and all. Plus, grade inflation.
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Agree on the rest of it

Not really, many of the most viable materials are still quite expensive (don't rely on Khan...) and only so many people can get need-based help from benefactors
 
altblue said:
Agree on the rest of it

Not really, many of the most viable materials are still quite expensive (don't rely on Khan...) and only so many people can get need-based help from benefactors
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Mmm IDK... if you do some searching there is so much online. YouTube videos, whole open courses for different subjects, WikiPremed, UWORLD has a free 90 day subscription. Then there is piracy where you can get tons of exams in someone's shared DropBox.

But yes, the 'traditional' methods are still very expensive. But if you are shrewd and persistent I feel you don't need to spend that much
 
altblue said:
Agree on the rest of it

Not really, many of the most viable materials are still quite expensive (don't rely on Khan...) and only so many people can get need-based help from benefactors
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Khan may not provide adequate practice. But virtually every corner of MCAT content is covered by Khan.

Low income students often get leftover financial aid and/or get to keep the money they have from their job because financial aid covers a lot.

I bought $268 MCAT bundle from AAMC, plus 2 ExamKrackers exams for $100 total, plus 3 ExamKrackers practice books for $150 total, roughly coming out to $500. Scored in the top 10%.
 
LoveBeingHuman:) said:
Khan may not provide adequate practice. But virtually every corner of MCAT content is covered by Khan.

Low income students often get leftover financial aid and/or get to keep the money they have from their job because financial aid covers a lot.

I bought $268 MCAT bundle from AAMC, plus 2 ExamKrackers exams for $100 total, plus 3 ExamKrackers practice books for $150 total, roughly coming out to $500.
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Yeah but not always. I will agree that this happens in many cases
 
altblue said:
Yeah but not always. I will agree that this happens in many cases
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Agreed. But my overall point is that for $500-$700 you can get top-quality MCAT preparation if you play your cards right. You don't need $1000+. And there are only few people who truly have difficulty coming up with $500 for something so important. And if that is the case than that person should have other things in mind rather than taking the MCAT.
 
you dont want med school applications to be competitive? the ppl going into med school today (20 year olds) will be more versed in everything health related than your general practitioner
 
I don’t really think there’s all that much going on with school ranges the past few years. The 2016/17 cycle was an anomaly for many reasons (grats to the people who got into UCLA when it’s median was a 508!) and things have merely returned to equilibrium. A few of us numberphiles on these boards long speculated that a nice round number like 520 would become the bar for the top rather than the AAMC’s brazenly pedestrian recommendation of 500 years before the 2015 version even officially came out lol.

All of the interesting things in the arms race happened after the early naughts. It’s a period that requires a lot more careful study as it also coincides with the meteoric rise in the cost of higher education.
 
LoveBeingHuman:) said:
Agreed. But my overall point is that for $500-$700 you can get top-quality MCAT preparation if you play your cards right. You don't need $1000+. And there are only few people who truly have difficulty coming up with $500 for something so important. And if that is the case than that person should have other things in mind rather than taking the MCAT.
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It’s more than a few, trust me. And it isn’t just $500 for prep materials. The MCAT cost money, each application does and so do secondaries and interviews. The FAP wouldn’t exist if there were so few people in dire need of assistance in paying for the medical school application process. Don’t be fooled by the vast majority of well off students in medical school. There are students every cycle that can’t take the MCAT or apply 100% due to financial reasons. I know several people that prepared for the MCAT using solely free resources and a couple that received a scholarship to do a prep course.

I don’t think it’s fair to say that a poor person shouldn’t be thinking about the MCAT. Poor folks are able to multitask and reach for their dreams as well as.
 
OchemOficionado said:
It’s more than a few, trust me. And it isn’t just $500 for prep materials. The MCAT cost money, each application does and so do secondaries and interviews. The FAP wouldn’t exist if there were so few people in dire need of assistance in paying for the medical school application process. Don’t be fooled by the vast majority of well off students in medical school. There are students every cycle that can’t take the MCAT or apply 100% due to financial reasons. I know several people that prepared for the MCAT using solely free resources and a couple that received a scholarship to do a prep course.

I don’t think it’s fair to say that a poor person shouldn’t be thinking about the MCAT. Poor folks are able to multitask and reach for their dreams as well as.
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And FAP doesn't come easy. In terms of income threshold it's harder to get than a Pell Grant, and there's more red-tape (or dumb documentation) than at my old UG, which gives poor students tens of thousands a year.

Let's not forget that poorer folks might have less background in the subject matters of the MCAT too, especially CARS. Since, you know, CARS might be easier if you have a stronger English or humanities background.
 
altblue said:
And FAP doesn't come easy. In terms of income threshold it's harder to get than a Pell Grant, and there's more red-tape (or dumb documentation) than at my old UG, which gives poor students tens of thousands a year.

Let's not forget that poorer folks might have less background in the subject matters of the MCAT too, especially CARS. Since, you know, CARS might be easier if you have a stronger English or humanities background.
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Exactly. I’m very surprised at the FAP criteria, but what can ya do? I’m one of the lucky ones because I have a credit card for this process. Not ideal, I’m so happy I have a shot at applying and I definitely don’t take it for granted.

Socioeconomic status can have such a big impact on quality of education. In general, it’s hard for someone from a poor background to catch up to their well off peers on the MCAT, in all subjects, when their educational foundation had holes in it since pre-k.

It’s alright though, there are poor folks that make it every cycle. Their journey may have been different, but it’s where you end that matters, not where you begin.
 
OchemOficionado said:
I don’t think it’s fair to say that a poor person shouldn’t be thinking about the MCAT. Poor folks are able to multitask and reach for their dreams as well as.
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Disagree. I know multiple people that weren't well off. They had the opportunity to take a job for a year, live at home, and save up some money for their future but they decided to not do that. Instead, they wanted to do everything quickly, and their application cycle and MCAT suffered because of it. Not to mention the fact that their parents had to take extra shifts.

They should have made better choices in the overall scheme of things.
 
How was the 2016/2017 cycle an anomaly? :O
 
LoveBeingHuman:) said:
Disagree. I know multiple people that weren't well off. They had the opportunity to take a job for a year, live at home, and save up some money for their future but they decided to not do that. Instead, they wanted to do everything quickly, and their application cycle and MCAT suffered because of it. Not to mention the fact that their parents had to take extra shifts.

They should have made better choices in the overall scheme of things.
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Well think of it this way:

Do people from privileged backgrounds often have to take extra time off, delaying their career and putting their lives in stasis, for the funds to apply?

Bruh, Kaplan and TPR make a killing off of the wealthy for their decided optional classes. Those people also don't have to worry about the funds to apply.

I'm so very thankful to receive assistance from outside sources. Applying would be much more challenging without it.
 
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