525 MCAT and NO A’s.

[BlatantPlatitude]

Sorry for clickbaitey title I just wanted to get some advice.

Current Cycle: 29 primary | 29 secondary | 5 II, 20 pre-II R, 5 post-II R, ghosted by 2 lol |
LM 81 525 MCAT 3.79 cGPA

I have strong ECs with success in research and 3 CNS pubs and 3 others in lower impact journals but higher impact author spots. 3000+ hours working as an MA and Scribe hybrid. Volunteering but not super meaningful and hours were limited. Was in fraternity leadership role. White male.

Here is my school list for starters:

UCSF

Stanford

Duke

Columbia*

Harvard

NYU*

Johns Hopkins

WUSL

Yale

Cornell

Mayo Alix

U Pennsylvania*

U Chicago

Northwestern

Vanderbilt*

UW

Emory

Pitt

UVA*

Sinai

Albert Einstein

University of Michigan

University of Colorado

Dartmouth

Boston Medical School

University of Wisconsin

University of Miami

Case Western

Hofstra****

IIs from Duke, UW, Yale, Penn, Hofstra. Then radio silence after October and just a steady drumbeat of pre-II Rs.

All interviews ended with rejections after (except for Hofstra, which WLd me but after the interview I didn’t really like their program and opportunities after and saw their match list and wasn’t impressed.

UW was weird one bc they told me “im sure you got plenty of interviews at amazing schools and you’ll go where is right for you” which was like a big middle finger and super weird. Because here I am with no A’s.

I am reapplying. Here is one of my main questions. Should I go for early decision at any school next cycle to increase my chances or should I choose one that interviewed me last cycle to show commitment? Also anyone have any advice on really crafting a good “pitch”/narrative and if any posts or examples of PSs helped you in particular?

Im ultimately stunned and at a loss that I didn’t get in anywhere and I can promise you im not a freak sociopath or weird I know how to hold a good conversation and I felt I interviewed good, not great though.

---

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[MrPuff]

Just an observation, '...I felt I interviewed good, not great though.' I am so sorry you didn't get in this cycle - with your stats you should have gotten in somewhere.

That said, I'd do some soul searching on why you felt you didn't interview 'great' and drill down on that. Get some help/practice from/with your premed advisor or some of the faculty if you can. Best of luck this upcoming cycle! we are pulling for you!!!

 

[Idkwhattocallit]

I am so sorry to hear this - you have amazing stats, amazing clinical and research experiences. Did you show your PS/secondary essays to a premed advisor or have it edited by your college? Also how are your Letter of Rec's?

 

[RuggedShark]

I had a 525 and UW told me the exact same thing! WL by them.

 

[c0der]

Hopefully you get off the waitlist from Hofstra, so you don't have to go through reapplication but def start prepping yourself.

You have good stats which make me think you didn't strongly convey yourself in your writing, unfocused theme in your essays and maybe you should diversify your list a little more. I have a friend who has a similar profile as you and applied to 40 schools only to get 1 acceptance so it's def brutal out here.

Regardless, keep your chin up, roll with the punches and one way or another, everything will work out. Good luck!

 

[BlatantPlatitude]

I am so sorry to hear this - you have amazing stats, amazing clinical and research experiences. Did you show your PS/secondary essays to a premed advisor or have it edited by your college? Also how are your Letter of Rec's?

I think I erred in having it reviewed by four different people but none of them were like in medicine or applied before. Definitely an L. Idk why I shot myself in the foot like that.

 

[Idkwhattocallit]

Just took a quick look at Hofstra's match list and it looks amazing in my humble opinion. I hope you got off the WL there - maybe send a letter of intent showing why you're a good fit, updating them with recent activities, etc.?

 

[johnr42700]

From just your writing in this post, I have a decent guess as to why you might not have gotten an acceptance. A lot of how you write comes across rather entitled - even your Hofstra interview (which you are still on the WL for) you snub because "you weren't impressed" by them. Most in a similar situation would be hoping with everything they had that it converts to an acceptance so they can follow their dream - it sounds like you're not even considering it, and are throwing it away before a final decision for another cycle.

It might be hard to hear, but most interviewers have little final say over who gets finally accepted. I was told by 2 interviewers at schools you would likely be quite "impressed" by that: "I really hope you choose to come here" and "I'm looking forward to seeing you in a few months, please reach out when you're on campus." Neither panned out.

I think there can be some more intrapersonal reflection moving forward, especially if your demeanor here reflects in person. Good luck!

 

[RunnerDad]

Did you apply to your home state school(s)? (Couldn't tell where you're a resident from the school list.) If you aren't a WA, AK, MT, or ID resident, then applying to UW is an incredible longshot irrespective of stats; their median MCAT is like 512 or 514 or something, so if you were an Out-of-Region (OOR) applicant with a 525 MCAT, you would have had to make a compelling case why UW was a tremendous fit for you notwithstanding your different profile from their typical student. It may be either your writing, or interviews, or both, focused on why you were the right candidate for a school and not why the school was the right place for you.

Also, with maybe a couple exceptions you more or less applied only to Top 30 schools. That's a gamble even for a high MCAT applicant. For crafting a compelling personal narrative, consider using SDN's resources - a number of people here have years of experience as physicians, adcoms, etc., and they specifically offer resources in reviewing personal statements.

Best of luck in your journey. Consider this the beginning and not the end!

 

[Mr.Smile12]

WAMC

WAMC: 3.79, 525

Focus: Need Help with School List Any suggestions with schools to remove or add. Have tried to apply broadly but also scared of too many "safety" schools as I have been told with my stats lower tier schools will actually reject me for yield-protection. cGPA/ sGPA: 3.85, 3.90 MCAT: 525...

forums.studentdoctor.net

 

[Med Ed]

have strong ECs with success in research and 3 CNS pubs and 3 others in lower impact journals but higher impact author spots. 3000+ hours working as an MA and Scribe hybrid. Volunteering but not super meaningful and hours were limited.

If your volunteering lacks both hours and meaning then your EC profile isn't as strong as you think it is.

I see this pattern a lot in reapplicants: high stats/strong research/strong clinical/weak volunteering. So often, in fact, that I call it The Mistake (TM). Medicine is fundamentally a service profession. If you want to be competitive at places like Stanford, Harvard, Yale, and Hopkins, then you have to be the total package. That means stats, research, clinical, and service.

Also anyone have any advice on really crafting a good “pitch”/narrative and if any posts or examples of PSs helped you in particular?

Crafting a good narrative involves a measure of introspection; combing through your life experiences, exploring your motivations, and understanding why you have made the choices you've made. I would start there to see what raw material you have to work with.

 

[Reanox24]

I don't think that I have seen any of the other comments say this, but if you got 4 post-II R's and a WL from Hofstra (which ought to have been a near-certain A given your stats and the fact that they are a stat-*****), there is a deficiency with your interviewing. You have great stats, you have good EC's, and your writing was good enough to get you those II's. However, your ability to convert those II's at least in the WL's was not there. I would work on interviewing skills as well

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Also anyone have any advice on really crafting a good “pitch”/narrative and if any posts or examples of PSs helped you in particular?

We offer

Becoming a Student Doctor - SDN

The Student Doctor Network provides free tools, resources, and advising services to help students become health professionals.

www.studentdoctor.net

Also it seems the problem isn't your PS. Five post-interview rejections shows me you had a strong narrative to be interviewed.

 

[BlatantPlatitude]

We offer

Becoming a Student Doctor - SDN

The Student Doctor Network provides free tools, resources, and advising services to help students become health professionals.

www.studentdoctor.net

Also it seems the problem isn't your PS. Five post-interview rejections shows me you had a strong narrative to be interviewed.

Im sure that it was ok enough to get 5 IIs out of 29, but certainly I can improve it. I understand what you are saying is clearly there is weakness at interview stage, but also 3/5 of my interviews are at longshot schools anyways and the recency makes me feel that luck certainly played a role. I have to focus on what I can change and control tho, which is interview prep.

 

[BlatantPlatitude]

If your volunteering lacks both hours and meaning then your EC profile isn't as strong as you think it is.

I see this pattern a lot in reapplicants: high stats/strong research/strong clinical/weak volunteering. So often, in fact, that I call it The Mistake (TM). Medicine is fundamentally a service profession. If you want to be competitive at places like Stanford, Harvard, Yale, and Hopkins, then you have to be the total package. That means stats, research, clinical, and service.


Crafting a good narrative involves a measure of introspection; combing through your life experiences, exploring your motivations, and understanding why you have made the choices you've made. I would start there to see what raw material you have to work with.

Do you know about applying ED and if it makes sense to choose one school that interviewed me this cycle for when I apply again?

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Do you know about applying ED and if it makes sense to choose one school that interviewed me this cycle for when I apply again?

That's a bad strategy unless you have the green light from them after a conversation about it. Not everyone uses ED in the way you suggest. This isn't undergrad.

Applying Earlier? Health Professions Admissions through Early Assurance - SDN

The Student Doctor Network provides free tools, resources, and advising services to help students become health professionals.

www.studentdoctor.net

 

[wysdoc]

If your volunteering lacks both hours and meaning then your EC profile isn't as strong as you think it is.

I see this pattern a lot in reapplicants: high stats/strong research/strong clinical/weak volunteering. So often, in fact, that I call it The Mistake (TM). Medicine is fundamentally a service profession. If you want to be competitive at places like Stanford, Harvard, Yale, and Hopkins, then you have to be the total package. That means stats, research, clinical, and service.


Crafting a good narrative involves a measure of introspection; combing through your life experiences, exploring your motivations, and understanding why you have made the choices you've made. I would start there to see what raw material you have to work with.

@BlatantPlatitude the answer of @Med Ed gets straight to the heart of it.
I know it's really crushing to be turned down and have to reapply.
The kind of writing schools are looking for on the application essays is so different than what you have needed to write for college lit courses or scientific papers. The number of words you have available is quite limited, and you have to make them count as well as include your insight and thoughts on each experience you choose to describe as leading you to your career in medicine.

Volunteering (or working) in clinics, hospitals, hospices, community charities is now a big part of the application that shows you know what you're getting into in this doctor life, and that you can find the needs in your own community. High stat applicants whose activities are almost all in the lab or on campus often find themselves in your predicament, but this is something you can work on starting now to build up some hours before you reapply.

Applying early decision is something I seldom recommend because it is not at all like the college ED process. If you apply ED you may only apply to one school, and until they either admit you or release you (tell you you are not admitted) you may not send your AMCAS application to any other schools. When do they have to give you a decision? Sometimes not until October. That would put you really late to send out more apps, and you run the chance of the ED school turning you down because, same reason, you haven't shown community engagement.

 

[GotToGetThatGPAUp]

Just wanted to add, if you do get off the WL at Hofstra if you're able to continue the performance that got you your premed marks in med school you'll be able to match anywhere you'd want in most specialties so don't feel like you're settling for less.

I'm at a lower tier med school than Hofstra and we have a couple handfuls of people with 525+ MCAT. It happens, but these people typically wind up matching super well.

 

[Goro]

Sorry for clickbaitey title I just wanted to get some advice.

Current Cycle: 29 primary | 29 secondary | 5 II, 20 pre-II R, 5 post-II R, ghosted by 2 lol |
LM 81 525 MCAT 3.79 cGPA

I have strong ECs with success in research and 3 CNS pubs and 3 others in lower impact journals but higher impact author spots. 3000+ hours working as an MA and Scribe hybrid. Volunteering but not super meaningful and hours were limited. Was in fraternity leadership role. White male.

Here is my school list for starters:

UCSF

Stanford

Duke

Columbia*

Harvard

NYU*

Johns Hopkins

WUSL

Yale

Cornell

Mayo Alix

U Pennsylvania*

U Chicago

Northwestern

Vanderbilt*

UW

Emory

Pitt

UVA*

Sinai

Albert Einstein

University of Michigan

University of Colorado

Dartmouth

Boston Medical School

University of Wisconsin

University of Miami

Case Western

Hofstra****

IIs from Duke, UW, Yale, Penn, Hofstra. Then radio silence after October and just a steady drumbeat of pre-II Rs.

All interviews ended with rejections after (except for Hofstra, which WLd me but after the interview I didn’t really like their program and opportunities after and saw their match list and wasn’t impressed.

UW was weird one bc they told me “im sure you got plenty of interviews at amazing schools and you’ll go where is right for you” which was like a big middle finger and super weird. Because here I am with no A’s.

I am reapplying. Here is one of my main questions. Should I go for early decision at any school next cycle to increase my chances or should I choose one that interviewed me last cycle to show commitment? Also anyone have any advice on really crafting a good “pitch”/narrative and if any posts or examples of PSs helped you in particular?

Im ultimately stunned and at a loss that I didn’t get in anywhere and I can promise you im not a freak sociopath or weird I know how to hold a good conversation and I felt I interviewed good, not great though.

I suspect your interview skills need a lot of work

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Im sure that it was ok enough to get 5 IIs out of 29, but certainly I can improve it. I understand what you are saying is clearly there is weakness at interview stage, but also 3/5 of my interviews are at longshot schools anyways and the recency makes me feel that luck certainly played a role. I have to focus on what I can change and control tho, which is interview prep.

Not that internet posts are accurate reflections of one's personality, but a few posters are picking up on a lack of humility or receptiveness to learn ("Commitment to learning and growth") in their comments. This one also shows a lack of understanding of the process (it doesn't behave the way anyone expects unless you are in charge of a process... and sometimes that surprises us).

Yes, you can always improve your application and your interview skills, but your mindset that you "deserve" more interviews or offers is misguided and toxic. Your value as a future physician or a person is not related to your "school count" (or "body count" if that's the current parlance). Your strategy and school choice got you five interviews in a process where most people are lucky to get one or two. Among the schools on your list, I recognize Duke as one that has the most rigorous secondary (in my opinion) and an MMI, so their evaluation is thorough. @Reanox24 pointed out Hofstra's tendencies to like high-stats applicants and is not considered that much of a reach with your profile.

Sure, medical school admissions have elements of chance, but (pick one)

https://www.brainyquote.com/photos_tr/en/b/branchrickey/377079/branchrickey4-2x.jpg

 

[Cornfed101]

Did you apply to your home state school(s)? (Couldn't tell where you're a resident from the school list.) If you aren't a WA, AK, MT, or ID resident, then applying to UW is an incredible longshot irrespective of stats; their median MCAT is like 512 or 514 or something, so if you were an Out-of-Region (OOR) applicant with a 525 MCAT, you would have had to make a compelling case why UW was a tremendous fit for you notwithstanding your different profile from their typical student. It may be either your writing, or interviews, or both, focused on why you were the right candidate for a school and not why the school was the right place for you.

Also, with maybe a couple exceptions you more or less applied only to Top 30 schools. That's a gamble even for a high MCAT applicant. For crafting a compelling personal narrative, consider using SDN's resources - a number of people here have years of experience as physicians, adcoms, etc., and they specifically offer resources in reviewing personal statements.

Best of luck in your journey. Consider this the beginning and not the end!

Wrong UW. OP said U of Wisconsin not Washington

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Wrong UW. OP said U of Wisconsin not Washington

Both UW and UWisconsin were listed on the school list (after Vanderbilt and Boston Medical School [sic]). UW apparently gave an II.

 

[Cornfed101]

Both UW and UWisconsin were listed on the school list (after Vanderbilt and Boston Medical School [sic]). UW apparently gave an II.

Ah missed that. Good catch

 

[Hollow Knight]

If your volunteering lacks both hours and meaning then your EC profile isn't as strong as you think it is.

I see this pattern a lot in reapplicants: high stats/strong research/strong clinical/weak volunteering. So often, in fact, that I call it The Mistake (TM). Medicine is fundamentally a service profession. If you want to be competitive at places like Stanford, Harvard, Yale, and Hopkins, then you have to be the total package. That means stats, research, clinical, and service.


Crafting a good narrative involves a measure of introspection; combing through your life experiences, exploring your motivations, and understanding why you have made the choices you've made. I would start there to see what raw material you have to work with.

Just to reiterate this point for any premeds reading: I was reviewing an app in January that was utterly perfect on paper (excellent research, 520+ MCAT, 4.0 GPA, etc). However, this man had only a small amount of volunteering they started in like May the year they applied.

What that told me about that individual was that they realized "Oh crap, I'm applying to medical school, I should go help people!"

I wrote in my evaluation something along the lines of "Since this applicant both A) doesn't seem that interested in serving others and B) doesn't even have the social awareness to pretend that they do for their app, I recommend we do not admit them to our medical school. Let them go get a PhD."

Even if you don't care about community service, at least have the self-awareness to pretend that you do. Go to a soup kitchen for like an hour a week your sophomore/junior year of college and until you apply.

 

[Hollow Knight]

@BlatantPlatitude

-Did you apply to your in-state MD schools? Any DO? If not, this was your biggest mistake. I had a similar application to yours (520+, 4.0, etc), and I got interviews at NYU, Vandy, etc, but at the end of the day, I got into my in-state low-tier MD. Which is fine, but admissions now is a lot more competitive than most people realize. And I'm great at writing/interviewing, a T20 just wasn't in the cards for me.

-Are you sure your writing doesn't suck? I'm happy to read your personal statement for content. DM me.

-Are you sure your interviewing doesn't suck? If you applied to low-tier schools and DO (it doesn't look like you did), and your app was written well, this is basically the only remaining explanation.

Edit: also, your story MUST make sense. I read in your WAMC thread that you were considering working in a healthcare system/business perspective even though you had no experiences to back that up. If you EVER do something like this, ANYWHERE, your app is dead in the water.

Example: I know people lying about wanting to do rural primary care is a meme, but adcoms aren't stupid. If you grew up in NYC and have no experience serving rural/disadvantaged populations, and you tell me you want to do rural primary care in Montana specifically, I'm going to smile at you, nod, and then after the interview, tell my colleagues you're a liar and trash your app.

 

[BlatantPlatitude]

Not that internet posts are accurate reflections of one's personality, but a few posters are picking up on a lack of humility or receptiveness to learn ("Commitment to learning and growth") in their comments. This one also shows a lack of understanding of the process (it doesn't behave the way anyone expects unless you are in charge of a process... and sometimes that surprises us).

Yes, you can always improve your application and your interview skills, but your mindset that you "deserve" more interviews or offers is misguided and toxic. Your value as a future physician or a person is not related to your "school count" (or "body count" if that's the current parlance). Your strategy and school choice got you five interviews in a process where most people are lucky to get one or two. Among the schools on your list, I recognize Duke as one that has the most rigorous secondary (in my opinion) and an MMI, so their evaluation is thorough. @Reanox24 pointed out Hofstra's tendencies to like high-stats applicants and is not considered that much of a reach with your profile.

Sure, medical school admissions have elements of chance, but (pick one)
View attachment 383770

https://www.brainyquote.com/photos_tr/en/b/branchrickey/377079/branchrickey4-2x.jpg

Its difficult when you know in your heart that you have a passion to do one thing and serve others and know 100% that you are capable of that and succeeding and a chance is not given to you. Maybe that's because I did a very poor job at translating my abilities and desire into words for a PS and interview, but still it feels wrong to be shafted on something I worked so hard for and felt like I did the requisite things to be allowed into at least one school. Yes, rank is mostly bs, but being given interviews at incredible schools who routinely deny amazing candidates and getting Pre-II R from a bunch of other schools maybe because of yield protection is not fun.

 

[Goro]

@BlatantPlatitude

-Did you apply to your in-state MD schools? Any DO? If not, this was your biggest mistake. I had a similar application to yours (520+, 4.0, etc), and I got interviews at NYU, Vandy, etc, but at the end of the day, I got into my in-state low-tier MD. Which is fine, but admissions now is a lot more competitive than most people realize. And I'm great at writing/interviewing, a T20 just wasn't in the cards for me.

-Are you sure your writing doesn't suck? I'm happy to read your personal statement for content. DM me.

I suspect that writing was not an issue, given the numbers of IIs OP got.

Example: I know people lying about wanting to do rural primary care is a meme, but adcoms aren't stupid. If you grew up in NYC and have no experience serving rural/disadvantaged populations, and you tell me you want to do rural primary care in Montana specifically, I'm going to smile at you, nod, and then after the interview, tell my colleagues you're a liar and trash your app.

Yeah, on this score, Adcoms want to see people walk the walk, not merely talk the talk.

 

[AnonymousDoctorGuyPerson]

Just to reiterate this point for any premeds reading: I was reviewing an app in January that was utterly perfect on paper (excellent research, 520+ MCAT, 4.0 GPA, etc). However, this man had only a small amount of volunteering they started in like May the year they applied.

What that told me about that individual was that they realized "Oh crap, I'm applying to medical school, I should go help people!"

I wrote in my evaluation something along the lines of "Since this applicant both A) doesn't seem that interested in serving others and B) doesn't even have the social awareness to pretend that they do for their app, I recommend we do not admit them to our medical school. Let them go get a PhD."

Even if you don't care about community service, at least have the self-awareness to pretend that you do. Go to a soup kitchen for like an hour a week your sophomore/junior year of college and until you apply.

Ditto. Not going to comment on whether this is OP's situation or not, but we outright reject plenty of 520s because of this.

It's also balanced based off resources. If you're an individual who had to work full-time throughout undergrad, yeah we aren't going to expect much volunteering/shadowing from you. But if you have physician parents (and thus resources/connections) and zero jobs, we expect there will be ample volunteering/shadowing or that spot is going to go to someone who got an equally great and qualifying score even if it is lower who met these requirements.

 

[Goro]

Its difficult when you know in your heart that you have a passion to do one thing and serve others and know 100% that you are capable of that and succeeding and a chance is not given to you. Maybe that's because I did a very poor job at translating my abilities and desire into words for a PS and interview, but still it feels wrong to be shafted on something I worked so hard for and felt like I did the requisite things to be allowed into at least one school. Yes, rank is mostly bs, but being given interviews at incredible schools who routinely deny amazing candidates and getting Pre-II R from a bunch of other schools maybe because of yield protection is not fun.

Ahh, there's more evidence of the problem you have, and I'll bet that it came through in your interviews.

Admission to medical school, and a career in Medicine, is a privilege, not a right. It is not a reward for being a good student or having high grades + GPA. You wanna be a doctor? Earn it.

I suggest that you take a gap year and immerse yourself in service to others less fortunate than yourself. Medicine is a service profession.

 

[BlatantPlatitude]

@BlatantPlatitude

-Did you apply to your in-state MD schools? Any DO? If not, this was your biggest mistake. I had a similar application to yours (520+, 4.0, etc), and I got interviews at NYU, Vandy, etc, but at the end of the day, I got into my in-state low-tier MD. Which is fine, but admissions now is a lot more competitive than most people realize. And I'm great at writing/interviewing, a T20 just wasn't in the cards for me.

-Are you sure your writing doesn't suck? I'm happy to read your personal statement for content. DM me.

-Are you sure your interviewing doesn't suck? If you applied to low-tier schools and DO (it doesn't look like you did), and your app was written well, this is basically the only remaining explanation.

Edit: also, your story MUST make sense. I read in your WAMC thread that you were considering working in a healthcare system/business perspective even though you had no experiences to back that up. If you EVER do something like this, ANYWHERE, your app is dead in the water.

Example: I know people lying about wanting to do rural primary care is a meme, but adcoms aren't stupid. If you grew up in NYC and have no experience serving rural/disadvantaged populations, and you tell me you want to do rural primary care in Montana specifically, I'm going to smile at you, nod, and then after the interview, tell my colleagues you're a liar and trash your app.

This is excellent advice. Thanks for sharing your story. I think that I may have not been as focused with my intentions for what to do in medicine specifically, e.g "Oh yeah I could see myself doing MD/MBA or MD/MPS or even just doing research but not liking it enough to do MD/Ph.D, haha" but with no real experiences to back it up or anything. I think I may have come across as wishy-washy (to put it lightly) and without a very strong directional choice may have seemed like a bad person to interview for most of these schools .

 

[BlatantPlatitude]

Ahh, there's more evidence of the problem you have, and I'll bet that it came through in your interviews.

Admission to medical school, and a career in Medicine, is a privilege, not a right. It is not a reward for being a good student or having high grades + GPA. You wanna be a doctor? Earn it.

I suggest that you take a gap year and immerse yourself in service to others less fortunate than yourself. Medicine is a service profession.

I think you're reading into this too much. Most people who want to do medicine work so hard towards a singular goal in a highly restrictive field where there are not enough slots in schools for the amount of people who want to do this. Who are you to use one sentence of mine to say "you clearly don't understand the immense privilege and responsibility of being entrusted to take care of people's health: that which is most important to them". I believe that completely. This is not a fault of my philosophy or failure to work hard. I am in my third gap year, used one for research commitments, 1.5 for working as a scribe/MA, and I guess another one now where I am learning Spanish and helping out with underprivileged kids in schools.

I am commenting on a fault of the system and of my own for just being worse at expressing myself in words in a high-pressure interview setting. I was asking for advice about how to improve that with concrete steps or maybe even recommendations on how to practice, not being told I need an attitude adjustment.

 

[BlatantPlatitude]

Just wanted to add, if you do get off the WL at Hofstra if you're able to continue the performance that got you your premed marks in med school you'll be able to match anywhere you'd want in most specialties so don't feel like you're settling for less.

I'm at a lower tier med school than Hofstra and we have a couple handfuls of people with 525+ MCAT. It happens, but these people typically wind up matching super well.

Thank you for that. My hope is pretty much gone to get off of WL, and that movement could happen in July right, so that means I have to apply again anyway because of the Primary on June 1st. Ugh.

 

[pablo213]

Thank you for that. My hope is pretty much gone to get off of WL, and that movement could happen in July right, so that means I have to apply again anyway because of the Primary on June 1st. Ugh.

Yea, worst case scenario you could apply to a throwaway school to get your application verified while you wait out the waitlist.

 

[BlatantPlatitude]

Yea, worst case scenario you could apply to a throwaway school to get your application verified while you wait out the waitlist.

Wow 200 IQ strat bless

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I was asking for advice about how to improve that with concrete steps or maybe even recommendations on how to practice, not being told I need an attitude adjustment.

We have given comment previously to you.

WAMC: 3.79, 525

Focus: Need Help with School List Any suggestions with schools to remove or add. Have tried to apply broadly but also scared of too many "safety" schools as I have been told with my stats lower tier schools will actually reject me for yield-protection. cGPA/ sGPA: 3.85, 3.90 MCAT: 525...

forums.studentdoctor.net

Without your actual application materials, you won't get more concrete steps. Have you asked schools for feedback?

 

[Med Ed]

Do you know about applying ED and if it makes sense to choose one school that interviewed me this cycle for when I apply again?

ED is really intended for a particular type of applicant, one who has a strong reason to attend a particular school and is an exceptionally good fit. As a reapplication strategy it's difficult to recommend.

I would definitely reach out to the schools that interviewed you to try and get some feedback.

 

[johnr42700]

I think you're reading into this too much. Most people who want to do medicine work so hard towards a singular goal in a highly restrictive field where there are not enough slots in schools for the amount of people who want to do this. Who are you to use one sentence of mine to say "you clearly don't understand the immense privilege and responsibility of being entrusted to take care of people's health: that which is most important to them". I believe that completely. This is not a fault of my philosophy or failure to work hard. I am in my third gap year, used one for research commitments, 1.5 for working as a scribe/MA, and I guess another one now where I am learning Spanish and helping out with underprivileged kids in schools.

I am commenting on a fault of the system and of my own for just being worse at expressing myself in words in a high-pressure interview setting. I was asking for advice about how to improve that with concrete steps or maybe even recommendations on how to practice, not being told I need an attitude adjustment.

What we're saying is that your attitude adjustment (especially if your true demeanor here comes across in your interviews) is likely a solution to your problem.

It's very clear that you feel you deserve to be a medical student (and one at a school that reaches certain criteria to sufficiently "impresses" you), and that you're both disheartened and aggravated that you didn't get what you think you deserve.

These traits tend to come across in several ways when speaking to someone about their motivations, life goals, etc. in 1-on-1 settings. The ability to receive criticism - even when it's not packaged in the way you expect/want it to be, and even when you might disagree with its premise - is another critical skill to learn. If you're fighting people and blocking input before starting med school, how are you going to react when you're constantly being evaluated in classes and clerkships later? These are also qualities that can be teased out by a good interviewer.

 

[BlatantPlatitude]

What we're saying is that your attitude adjustment (especially if your true demeanor here comes across in your interviews) is likely a solution to your problem.

It's very clear that you feel you deserve to be a medical student (and one at a school that reaches certain criteria to sufficiently "impresses" you), and that you're both disheartened and aggravated that you didn't get what you think you deserve.

These traits tend to come across in several ways when speaking to someone about their motivations, life goals, etc. in 1-on-1 settings. The ability to receive criticism - even when it's not packaged in the way you expect/want it to be, and even when you might disagree with its premise - is another critical skill to learn. If you're fighting people and blocking input before starting med school, how are you going to react when you're constantly being evaluated in classes and clerkships later? These are also qualities that can be teased out by a good interviewer.

Ok fair point and criticism taken. Maybe i'm just in the anger transitioning to bargaining stage of my grief lol. I come across as entitled here likely for that reason. I think I didn't expect to be in this position and i'm not sure how you are supposed to package your dream up into a 2 minute "why medicine" speech when you talk to interviewers. I have no problem with constructive criticism I think.

 

[BlatantPlatitude]

We have given comment previously to you.

WAMC: 3.79, 525

Focus: Need Help with School List Any suggestions with schools to remove or add. Have tried to apply broadly but also scared of too many "safety" schools as I have been told with my stats lower tier schools will actually reject me for yield-protection. cGPA/ sGPA: 3.85, 3.90 MCAT: 525...

forums.studentdoctor.net

Without your actual application materials, you won't get more concrete steps. Have you asked schools for feedback?

I have asked schools for feedback actually. I will be able to get it from a few which I think will be invaluable. Also thanks for pointing out previous advice on that thread I forgot about that.

 

[Sandman23]

I have asked schools for feedback actually. I will be able to get it from a few which I think will be invaluable. Also thanks for pointing out previous advice on that thread I forgot about that.

Just curious because I haven't come across a school that does give feedback, except if you interviewed. Are you only asking for feedback at schools you interviewed at? Or, at least, are those the only ones willing to share feedback?

 

[wysdoc]

Just curious because I haven't come across a school that does give feedback, except if you interviewed. Are you only asking for feedback at schools you interviewed at? Or, at least, are those the only ones willing to share feedback?

The schools that are willing to have a feedback/ app review with an applicant will only do it if they have rejected you, and not while your current file with them is still active.

 

[Sandman23]

The schools that are willing to have a feedback/ app review with an applicant will only do it if they have rejected you, and not while your current file with them is still active.

Yea, I'm talking about schools that have handed out rejections - haven't come across one that gives personalized feedback

 

[Mr.Smile12]

UW was weird one bc they told me “im sure you got plenty of interviews at amazing schools and you’ll go where is right for you” which was like a big middle finger and super weird. Because here I am with no A’s.

UW is your in-state, right? While I always warn to take any feedback with a grain of mustard, this sounds like the interviewer feels you are not going to be happy if you attend UW. You didn't demonstrate your fit or enthusiasm with the school, and, despite your in-state status, you didn't get a high recommendation from the interviewer. Maybe the UW adcom doesn't want to play the bidding game that they feel you would play. Rejecting an in-state applicant is not an outcome I would expect.

 

[BlatantPlatitude]

UW is your in-state, right? While I always warn to take any feedback with a grain of mustard, this sounds like the interviewer feels you are not going to be happy if you attend UW. You didn't demonstrate your fit or enthusiasm with the school, and, despite your in-state status, you didn't get a high recommendation from the interviewer. Maybe the UW adcom doesn't want to play the bidding game that they feel you would play. Rejecting an in-state applicant is not an outcome I would expect.

yes UW is my in-state. I don't want to contradict you because you know way more about this process than me, but at least from what I can tell UW is very unique not just because of the WWAMI thing, but also because they reject in-state applicants who interview all the time. The joke all my friends who applied at UW is that you have to be the kind of person that wants to go into community/public health or be a rural medicine doctor in Alaska or something. Clearly an exaggeration, but also from insider knowledge of a friend who is an MS2 there right now. Everyone says they want to do primary care when they apply and then once they get in suddenly there's like 20 ortho bros. I'm sure you get my point. UW just emphasizes very specific things and I wasn't going to lie to them that my passion is public health when clearly nothing about my application backs that up and it would also just be dishonest. But I got this vibe from the start from that person they knew I wasn't going to be the right fit for the school I think even though I was enthusiastic in my interview.

 

[BlatantPlatitude]

Yea, I'm talking about schools that have handed out rejections - haven't come across one that gives personalized feedback

I emailed all the schools that rejected me post-II and UW and duke were willing to do feedback for me which is nice.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

yes UW is my in-state. I don't want to contradict you because you know way more about this process than me, but at least from what I can tell UW is very unique not just because of the WWAMI thing, but also because they reject in-state applicants who interview all the time. The joke all my friends who applied at UW is that you have to be the kind of person that wants to go into community/public health or be a rural medicine doctor in Alaska or something. Clearly an exaggeration, but also from insider knowledge of a friend who is an MS2 there right now. Everyone says they want to do primary care when they apply and then once they get in suddenly there's like 20 ortho bros. I'm sure you get my point. UW just emphasizes very specific things and I wasn't going to lie to them that my passion is public health when clearly nothing about my application backs that up and it would also just be dishonest. But I got this vibe from the start from that person they knew I wasn't going to be the right fit for the school I think even though I was enthusiastic in my interview.

Well, I don't know that much more about UW's process, but they aren't hurting for good applicants. Your M2 insider is likely spot on describing the "hidden rules" for their admissions process. They also know WSU has way more seats for in-state applicants than they do, but I have the impression WSU is way more into community/public health than UW (my bias is from knowing about their medical school's research resources including the Hutch). That person may be on to something knowing that so many WWAMI students are interested in community health, and the faculty/admins don't want there to be a tiered social system of the Washington students as specialty gunners separate from the non-Washington community medicine students. As you point out, that patina wears off very quickly.

Glad to hear Duke will be willing to give you feedback. Also interested in what UW will say.

 

[LeaveNoTrace]

Given that you got five interviews from some very big-name schools, the paper part of your application wasn't the problem, or at worst was a little bit polarizing or questionable but otherwise very strong. The rule of thumb is "Interviews three, an MD you'll be"; with your failure to convert at least one of these interviews to an acceptance, it was probably your interview skills that sunk you. That might have been combined with the barely-sufficient volunteering you had.

1. Get more nonclinical volunteering between now and next application cycle.
2. Your application looks very much like you were born on second or third base and ran home. Nothing wrong with that - but unfortunately stereotyping is real. Interviewers may be wondering if the frat president with great grades and test scores is an arrogant hotshot that thinks he's God's gift to medicine. I'm by no means saying that this is who you are or how you come off, but I suspect that it is something people are looking for when they interview you.
3. If you have trouble connecting to people or are polarizing, talk to someone you trust and who knows you well about this. You might consider going after two birds with one stone and doing something like community theater for at-risk kids. Or working as a barista. Or even professional help...maybe a therapist, maybe something like an acting coach or similar.

On paper, you look very good indeed. Listen to the feedback you get from the schools that rejected you. Good luck!

 

[BlatantPlatitude]

Given that you got five interviews from some very big-name schools, the paper part of your application wasn't the problem, or at worst was a little bit polarizing or questionable but otherwise very strong. The rule of thumb is "Interviews three, an MD you'll be"; with your failure to convert at least one of these interviews to an acceptance, it was probably your interview skills that sunk you. That might have been combined with the barely-sufficient volunteering you had.

1. Get more nonclinical volunteering between now and next application cycle.
2. Your application looks very much like you were born on second or third base and ran home. Nothing wrong with that - but unfortunately stereotyping is real. Interviewers may be wondering if the frat president with great grades and test scores is an arrogant hotshot that thinks he's God's gift to medicine. I'm by no means saying that this is who you are or how you come off, but I suspect that it is something people are looking for when they interview you.
3. If you have trouble connecting to people or are polarizing, talk to someone you trust and who knows you well about this. You might consider going after two birds with one stone and doing something like community theater for at-risk kids. Or working as a barista. Or even professional help...maybe a therapist, maybe something like an acting coach or similar.

On paper, you look very good indeed. Listen to the feedback you get from the schools that rejected you. Good luck!

I appreciate your comments. I have neglected to mention some more volunteering I have listed in my activities section but I would say it is insufficient and quite long ago. I have already started to look for opportunities in my area working in underserved school districts doing after-school tutoring as teaching and helping kids is something I really like to do. As to your 2nd/3rd points, I actually have started to realize that I was not as much arrogant but more introverted and found it hard to enumerate and articulate my story, along with some themes in my PS and in my "why medicine" spiel during interviews that I think demonstrated some uncertainty. Thanks for your feedback.

 

[pablo213]

I have already started to look for opportunities in my area working in underserved school districts doing after-school tutoring as teaching and helping kids is something I really like to do.

I think this is a great activity, though I've heard some people say to pursue other activities outside of tutoring as it's counted as a separate category apart from volunteering

 

[BlatantPlatitude]

Oh interesting I hadn't heard that. I suppose I still would like to do something similar with underprivileged kids but if not after-school help then i'm not sure. Will have to look into it.