6 year PhDs anyone?

[echod]

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Assuming that one is trying to be productive, 60 hours a week = 3.5 to 4 year PhD graduation seems to be common from what I've heard and read. Then, I look at the other grad students in my lab who are all working 60 hours/week but not getting out until their 6th year. I'm starting to wonder if my MD/PhD is going to be a 9-10 year deal instead of 7-8. Do your PIs have a different (aka somewhat lower) expectation for MD/PhD students?

 

[ecoli]

I think the goal is to get the MD/PhD's out quicker. this is done differently depending on the school. Some have students take PhD classes during med school years, they waive TA requirements, etc.

My grad student mentor actually spent a year doing a project that didn't wind up going into his thesis work, pushing him back a year. He got a publication out of it, but I think he was always a little ticked that it took him 6 years (on top of the masters degree he already had).

 

[GWD]

Assuming that one is trying to be productive, 60 hours a week = 3.5 to 4 year PhD graduation seems to be common from what I've heard and read. Then, I look at the other grad students in my lab who are all working 60 hours/week but not getting out until their 6th year. I'm starting to wonder if my MD/PhD is going to be a 9-10 year deal instead of 7-8. Do your PIs have a different (aka somewhat lower) expectation for MD/PhD students?

I know some people are going to have fun trying to argue this, but yes.

And, it's not just limited to PIs either.

 

[redoc]

I think I'm looking at 6 years. Better yet, I look forward to 6 years. 🙂

 

[QofQuimica]

Assuming that one is trying to be productive, 60 hours a week = 3.5 to 4 year PhD graduation seems to be common from what I've heard and read. Then, I look at the other grad students in my lab who are all working 60 hours/week but not getting out until their 6th year. I'm starting to wonder if my MD/PhD is going to be a 9-10 year deal instead of 7-8. Do your PIs have a different (aka somewhat lower) expectation for MD/PhD students?

It's tough to answer this, because there are so many factors that play into the equation. Frankly, some grad students just don't put in the effort necessary to get out in a timely manner. That's an easy problem to fix if you're willing to put in 60 hours per week. Second, some people work hard and are unlucky. The best advice I can give you to avoid that is to work on 2-3 projects at any one time, of which one should be an almost sure thing and the other 1 or 2 should be more interesting and far-out ideas. Then there are the people who don't choose their labs wisely, and those are the most unlucky of all IMO. It's tough to overcome a PI whose best interest is keeping you in the lab for another year or two. That's why it's so important to check out the PI's grad record before you commit to a lab.

I think that if you are working in the lab 60 hours per week (especially with no classes, no teaching) for 3.5 to 4 years, it is very reasonable to finish your PhD in that time frame. Again, it helps if you have a few projects going at once so that when some don't pan out, you won't be stuck having totally wasted six months or a year. Best of to you. 🙂

 

[xanthines]

Q is on the money.

I have never EVER seen anyone graduate quickly that didn't work their tail off. Yeah, being lucky is good (whatever luck is), but working hard is a surefire way to increase your chances (luck?). That means 60-90 hours weeks, coming in on weekends, sweat, blood, tears, etc. On the other hand I know people (not just MSTP), that come in at 9am and leave at 4pm and wonder why they're taking so long. 🙄

Yes, some people are unlucky but I think that number is actually pretty low. Not being in the lab is a more likely explanation. Just my opinion...

-X

 

[gbwillner]

I agree with the last 2 posts. I will say that PIs and graduate departments do not as a rule let MD/PhDs out faster, but it is clear that at some institutions they do. They do so in different ways- sometimes thay pair you up with PIs known to let you out quick and "blackball" slow PIs. They can limit your rotations and coursework. They can also give you projects that are already established and you just "mop up". This last one seems to be very common in quick PhDs and I think it's troubling.

 

[Gyric]

6 years for me ... total

One other person in my program did it in 6, average was 7.5.

My advice?

Find a mentor that is results driven e.g. "a Ph.D. in my lab is 3 first author papers in ..... journals," then work hard ... like 80-100 hour weeks, keep multiple projects going, when one works stay with it till you have a figure. Write early and only show data to your committee that is accepted for publication or at least in final stages of peer review. Find this mentor (who will need to be well funded and hands off in the lab) in your first months of med school and devote at least 25% of yr1 and 2 to bench work. Do not join a lab where you have to work on other people's projects at first; you want the freedom to develop your own thesis from day one. Your mentor will have to like you, the only way to get a thesis committee to sign off on a short PhD is if you have the data AND your mentor pushes them.

With luck you can do it in 6, but even working this hard, best to plan on 7.

There are huge advantages to finishing early, not the least of which is the fact that your interests may change and every year counts in terms of flexibility to tailor future clinical and/or postdoctoral training.

 

[marctam86]

devote at least 25% of yr1 and 2 to bench work.

how? med school classes are (for me) 9-5 most days. and studying outside of class would presumably take up the remaining "free" time.

 

[Neuronix]

Classes are a waste of time. I'm saying this as someone who NEVER missed a class as an undergrad, except I missed two classes for mom's third wedding. Don't go to anything that's not required and study on your own. You'll see what I mean when you get to med school. Lectures tend not to be that useful and most schools have one of a note taking service or notes from the lecturer given to you.

It's much more time efficient to just study off those notes and books. If you don't go to class and do this I think it's pretty easy to get by, at least at my school. I probably did about 30 hours of med school a week and took a grad course at night my first year. It wasn't bad at all.

A tip of the hat to you Gyric. I wish I could keep up that level of production.

 

[BozoSparky]

6 years for me ... total

One other person in my program did it in 6, average was 7.5.

My advice?

Find a mentor that is results driven e.g. "a Ph.D. in my lab is 3 first author papers in ..... journals," then work hard ... like 80-100 hour weeks, keep multiple projects going, when one works stay with it till you have a figure. Write early and only show data to your committee that is accepted for publication or at least in final stages of peer review. Find this mentor (who will need to be well funded and hands off in the lab) in your first months of med school and devote at least 25% of yr1 and 2 to bench work. Do not join a lab where you have to work on other people's projects at first; you want the freedom to develop your own thesis from day one. Your mentor will have to like you, the only way to get a thesis committee to sign off on a short PhD is if you have the data AND your mentor pushes them.

With luck you can do it in 6, but even working this hard, best to plan on 7.

There are huge advantages to finishing early, not the least of which is the fact that your interests may change and every year counts in terms of flexibility to tailor future clinical and/or postdoctoral training.

6 years for me, too...worked in a new lab without established projects. I remember feeling like I should stay another year to try and pull off that final hero experiment...but I got out of there and went to med school instead.

 

[GWD]

6 years for me ... total

One other person in my program did it in 6, average was 7.5.

With luck you can do it in 6, but even working this hard, best to plan on 7.

You are talking about the ENTIRE MD/PhD program?

Wow.

 

[QofQuimica]

6 years for me, too...worked in a new lab without established projects. I remember feeling like I should stay another year to try and pull off that final hero experiment...but I got out of there and went to med school instead.

You don't count, dude. They're talking about finishing *both* the MD and PhD in six years, not just the PhD. 😛

How is med school? Are you a fourth year now?

 

[BozoSparky]

You don't count, dude. They're talking about finishing *both* the MD and PhD in six years, not just the PhD. 😛

How is med school? Are you a fourth year now?

haha...good lord, both in 6? sorry about that...
i'll write ya about med school! yeah, i'm a 4th year now

later Q!