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I understand that, however WHAT are the chances of making it to Harvard being from a WHITE blue collar family? I don't play sports, so I can't make the school any money being a collegiate athlete and boosting ticket sales, etc. It's all about money.... I sat down with a Princeton admissions person once with my IB counselor and they explained all of this to me, however she said that students are typically picked upon their FAFSA b/c they won't have to give X amount of money to so many people.... greedy greedy system.

There's scholarships okay, but not always are they given to the less fortunate like me. There are others way below me, I understand so they'll see the money first, however I have yet to see a dime from one of these "whoa as you scholarships". All mine are Academic Based- Honors Scholarship (>3.5 GPA), being a young student- EGSG Grant, and my Pell Grant pays the rest of my tuition/books/etc. (That's for CC though). However if I went to a REAL (public- there's no way I could attend a private) university, it'd probably be difficult because I'd need to take out a loan to cover tuition, books... and I'm not even talking board. And there are typically stipulations w/ scholarships that you've needed to take X amount of credits @ the university before you can apply with the hundreds of others. The only way I could REALLY go to a university is by completing the honors program @ my CC and getting a full ride to one of my state universities for their honors program (that doesn't include board though)......grr

Sorry my example was a bit off what I'm trying to say is many schools disregard IB credit for whatever reason. So kids who spent 4 yrs doing these programs aren't receiving the same benefit for taking the tests... yet IB is supposed to be "international level" so you'ld think b/c international standards are SO high they'd be accepted. 😕

No one is talking about sports here. There is such a thing as a MERIT scholarship! That depends SOLEY on your ACADEMIC abilities. It's always funny to see people make excuses on WHY they can't get into Harvard or any nice colleges by using the excuse of being poor.🙄 Money has nothing to do with it...If you do well in school you will succeed and get into the best colleges. That goes with anyone...no excuses.

Passion4Sci went to Stanford and his family was middle class...he got a full merit scholarship. So money has nothing to do with it. Everyone is born with an opportunity to do well in high school, it depends soley on that PERSON as to whether or not they do well. There really are no excuses.
 
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No one is talking about sports here. There is such a thing as a MERIT scholarship! That depends SOLEY on your ACADEMIC abilities. It's always funny to see people make excuses on WHY they can't get into Harvard or any nice colleges by using the excuse of being poor.🙄 Money has nothing to do with it...If you do well in school you will succeed and get into the best colleges. That goes with anyone...no excuses.
Why are your posts so rude? You feel the need to be incessantly rude b/c you're "better" than everyone else. You dropped out of dental school to become a pharmacist? And you feel the need to comment on how I'm making excuses? Weren't you the one who never even WANTED to go to pharm school and be a pharmaceutical sales rep???? You've come a long way eh?

I'm by no means making excuses.... Never have never will, I KNOW my chances of getting into a Harvard Yale ,etc are very slim. I did good in high school but not exceedingly well (i.e. 4.0 top 1% of my class). I never took the SAT/ ACT ... I don't blame anyone BUT myself for not doing these standardized tests or getting A's in all my courses. I take full responsibility to the fact everything I've earned academically was by my own means and I've made the decision to continue my post secondary education somewhere I knew I could afford without hassle. I knew where my place in society was and I wasn't trying to impress anyone by being accepted into these schools. I could care less if my degree is from a brand name school or not. I'm getting an education, that's what matters to me. It's evident, if you're not GREAT at everything chances are very slim. I've never been one to be the best at everything let alone one thing I try. I will admit I'm above average on academics, but that doesn't show for much when I'm not getting an exact 4.0. I work very hard to maintain my grades, but that's about it. I don't have the option to play sports, be extremely involved with the community, etc. I have duties at home to help my mom w/ raising my brother and being here for him when need be because SHE can't be here. When I was younger, my mom was never there when I received academic achievements because she HAD to work. That's the only way we could survive. And that continues to be the way it is. She has to work in order for us to a. have a place to live and b. have the ability to go to school by providing means of transportation. So don't give me the line that I'm making excuses. I didn't decide to be born into a single parent household with one person, one income under 25k raising both my brother and I. You don't know my life, you never will. So go live in your glass house Ms. 4.0 dental school dropout.
 
Why are your posts so rude? You feel the need to be incessantly rude b/c you're "better" than everyone else. You dropped out of dental school to become a pharmacist? And you feel the need to comment on how I'm making excuses? Weren't you the one who never even WANTED to go to pharm school and be a pharmaceutical sales rep???? You've come a long way eh?

I'm by no means making excuses.... Never have never will, I KNOW my chances of getting into a Harvard Yale ,etc are very slim. I did good in high school but not exceedingly well (i.e. 4.0 top 1% of my class). I never took the SAT/ ACT ... I don't blame anyone BUT myself for not doing these standardized tests. I knew where my place in society was and I wasn't trying to impress anyone by being accepted into these schools. I could care less if my degree is from a brand name school or not. I'm getting an education, that's what matters to me. It's evident, if you're not GREAT at everything chances are very slim. I've never been one to be the best at everything let alone one thing I try. I will admit I'm above average on academics, but that doesn't show for much when I'm not getting an exact 4.0. I work very hard to maintain my grades, but that's about it. I don't have the option to play sports, be extremely involved with the community, etc. I have duties at home to help my mom w/ raising my brother and being here for him when need be because SHE can't be here. She has to work in order for us to a. have a place to live and b. have the ability to go to school by providing means of transportation. So don't give me the line that I'm making excuses. You don't know my life, you never will. Go live in your glass house Ms. 4.0 dental school dropout.

You are saying something that is completely FALSE so I have to chime in and correct you. You said only rich people or privilege people can attend nice schools. You also said a 4 year degree is a waste of money...not worth the print on paper...Now who is being rude here? :laugh: 🙄 You also mention sports as the only way to get a scholarship....which is FALSE too... I am just saying NO...you are wrong here. Average middle class people get merit scholarships all the time to nice colleges. Passion4Sci being one of them. Princeton and Harvard will give you a full ride if your family income is below 80K a year which is very generous.

Oh and Columbia dental didn't have a GPA system...they were p/f. Most ivy league medical schools are. LOL...
 
You are saying something that is completely FALSE so I have to chime in and correct you. You said only rich people or privilege people can attend nice schools. You also said a 4 year degree is a waste of money...not worth the print on paper...Now who is being rude here? :laugh: 🙄 You also mention sports as the only way to get a scholarship....which is FALSE too... I am just saying NO...you are wrong here. Average middle class people get merit scholarships all the time to nice colleges. Passion4Sci being one of them. Princeton and Harvard will give you a full ride if your family income is below 80K a year which is very generous.

Oh and Columbia dental didn't have a GPA system...they were p/f. Most ivy league medical schools are. LOL...
Blanket statement. You're assuming. My posts below said:

nicolemsm said:
There's scholarships okay, but not always are they given to the less fortunate like me.

I'm not saying a 4 degree is a waste. I've implied SOME 4 yr degrees are. Even others have said degrees in PSY especially are worthless. I've been one that always agrees any engineering degree is not worthless. So that's another falsity.


Sports were GIVEN as an example, I never once implied it was the ONLY way. I am ON a merit scholarship, so I know that you get awards for MERIT..... Yes I understand that.

Also, Princeton and Harvard will pay, BUT you're missing a point, MY CHANCES OF GETTING IN (I've repeated this but you beg to ignore that I've continually said it) GETTING IN...... I repeated it again ARE SLIM. I did not have a steallar HS GPA (3.53) and chances of transferring from my CC to a Harvard, Yale are slim as well seeing as transfer student rates are quite low. MY CHANCES ARE VIRTUALLY none. Correct me if I'm wrong w/ stats and all.



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nicolemsm said:
Typically you're receiving the same education @ varied prices..... oh ya and anyone who says community college is for idiots... whatever.... I know some pretty damn smart people who'd much rather get a free education vs. 80k in UNDERGRAD debt for a stupid degree even more worthless than the paper it's printed on.
In this quote I insinuated that 80k in debt for an undergrad isn't worth the paper it's printed on. Seriously, why waste 80k on undergrad? That could have been interpreted incorrectly. I'm solidifying it's meaning now.
 
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I'm by no means making excuses.... Never have never will, I KNOW my chances of getting into a Harvard Yale ,etc are very slim. I did good in high school but not exceedingly well (i.e. 4.0 top 1% of my class). I never took the SAT/ ACT ... I don't blame anyone BUT myself for not doing these standardized tests or getting A's in all my courses. I take full responsibility to the fact everything I've earned academically was by my own means and I've made the decision to continue my post secondary education somewhere I knew I could afford without hassle. I knew where my place in society was and I wasn't trying to impress anyone by being accepted into these schools. I could care less if my degree is from a brand name school or not. I'm getting an education, that's what matters to me. It's evident, if you're not GREAT at everything chances are very slim. I've never been one to be the best at everything let alone one thing I try. I will admit I'm above average on academics, but that doesn't show for much when I'm not getting an exact 4.0. I work very hard to maintain my grades, but that's about it. I don't have the option to play sports, be extremely involved with the community, etc. I have duties at home to help my mom w/ raising my brother and being here for him when need be because SHE can't be here. When I was younger, my mom was never there when I received academic achievements because she HAD to work. That's the only way we could survive. And that continues to be the way it is. She has to work in order for us to a. have a place to live and b. have the ability to go to school by providing means of transportation. So don't give me the line that I'm making excuses. I didn't decide to be born into a single parent household with one person, one income under 25k raising both my brother and I. You don't know my life, you never will. So go live in your glass house Ms. 4.0 dental school dropout.

As much as I can understand your anger by your story, you're not being objective in your opinions about class as well as education. In essence, you're creating a double standard in your projection of anger by saying that the hardworking blue collar families never get cut any breaks, but you were also the one who put yourself under the glass ceiling by not taking the standardized exams to try to get into Princeton. Ironically, I know for a fact admissions committees look for kids who struggled to get their grades in the middle of family problems and money. They find that resilience worth just as much as any private school lacross recruit that they would find at Phillips Exeter Academy. You decided that you weren't worthy and assigned yourself your place in society even before you gave yourself those opportunities. It's possible you could have gone to Princeton for free. I don't blame you for thinking the way you do, but recognize how it's incendiary/defensive in tone.
 
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I understand that, however WHAT are the chances of making it to Harvard being from a WHITE blue collar family? I don't play sports, so I can't make the school any money being a collegiate athlete and boosting ticket sales, etc. It's all about money.... I sat down with a Princeton admissions person once with my IB counselor and they explained all of this to me, however she said that students are typically picked upon their FAFSA b/c they won't have to give X amount of money to so many people.... greedy greedy system.

You can make it in on good GPA, good test scores, strong personal statements and strong LORs. Schools aren't so discriminatory that they would rule you out based on you being white; there is no 'quota' at most schools. Hell, one of UCLA's recent entering classes was only 2.7% black with only a 15 something % acceptance rate of black applicants.

There's no auto-reject button because you were born [blank] (whatever that might be). There is also no auto-accept button either ... you make it happen with your own blood, sweat, and tears... that's what I've learned over the course of my higher education lifetime. Sure, there have been times in the past when I feel slightly neglected that some scholarships are off limits to me because I'm not a/an 'URM'. I've learned to just work hard and not let that political blathering get in the way of my performance. There are many corporate scholarships out there based strictly on performance and not how/where you were born. There are scholarships out there for first gen college students.

Harvard isn't exactly known for their athletics.. and the sports they do enjoy aren't really west coast sports. Fencing, sailing, crew, lacrosse, etc. Preppy east coast ivy league stuff. You don't need to be a crazy HS athlete to join those, my long time friend, neighbor, and teammate was part of their crew team for 3 or 4 years. She wasn't recruited by anyone for her athletics; she was accepted strictly on the strength of her academic history and application.

As for the FAFSA issue. What she said was true. The financial aid office use your FAFSA EFC calculations to determine how much money to pull from 'need-based' grants and endowment funds to meet your needs.


Sorry my example was a bit off what I'm trying to say is many schools disregard IB credit for whatever reason. So kids who spent 4 yrs doing these programs aren't receiving the same benefit for taking the tests... yet IB is supposed to be "international level" so you'ld think b/c international standards are SO high they'd be accepted. 😕

I'm sorry to hear that. I would also be annoyed and confused if I learned that AP credits weren't accepted anywhere. 👎mad: (retake the classes anyways, the experience is worth it!).


And to go back along the lines of the OP's question... University X at 3.5 is probably looked upon more favorbly than Cal at 3.0. The difference between a 3.5 GPA and a 3.0 GPA is, on a 128 unit degree program, a 64 grade points difference. That's 12.5% of the total grade points you could possibly earn, a fairly significant value... on average 8 grade points lower per semester over the period of four years. To put this into perspective, in an equivalant exchange the Cal student would earn roughly 2 C's for every 2 of University X's B's or 2 B's for every 2 A's for every semester in a four year span. Strictly GPA-wise, I believe the X numbers trump the Cal numbers. Name/prestige probably does carry some weight between equal candidates but loses its relevancy when discrepencies in GPAs are this large.
 
holy cow~ There's a whole second page to this thing, time to sit this one out :corny:
 
My magnet high school was "harder" than college, so my grades were lower than had I gone to the easier local hs. I didn't get accepted into many schools even though my standardized test scores were higher than average at schools like UCLA/UCSD/UCB. On paper, my attending a harder high school didn't really get adjusted in the eyes of the admissions people.

I think the same principles still apply for pharmacy schools. Like mentioned before: on paper, a 3.5 GPA from another UC > 3.0 GPA from CAL.
 
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1. Many four year degrees are useless
2. There is some discrimination against white people getting into certain schools right now and in the most recent years
3. The college application process can be confusing and tedious for someone who has never had anybody in their family go to college and/or who has poor advising (i.e. inner city school)
4. West coast sports are not real sports. The "preppy ivy league" sports are real sports 🙂🙂🙂 and they don't usually teach those in the inner city west coast schools...correct me if I am wrong!
5. It costs a lot to go to an ivy league school and there are only so many "merit scholarships" out there-- and how many of those "merit scholarships" consider minority status?
 
That's exactly what I disagree about, there isn't some magical inflation that says because you went to a prestigious school your low GPA is suddenly worth more than it should be. A low GPA is what it is, a low GPA, be from Harvard, Berkeley or San Jose State .

A 3.5 from Berkeley is maybe worth more than 3.5 from Sac State, but it's not worth more than the 4.0 from a State School. Strong applicants from a mediocre school have a waaaaay better chance IMO than an average applicant from a prestigious school. Adcoms members here aren't blind (some are probably graduates of the Cal State system themselves given how we have some faculty from Cal State system) and know that UC and Berkeley professors tend to teach at State schools part time.

As for UCSF: SCH I respect you and like you a lot, but you seem to have sooo many misconceptions about the school. They don't look for numbers here ! They look for community service and heavily involved individuals. They want humanitarians with accomplishments. That's why even with 3.0 OP still could have a chance, granted the rest of his application is extraordinary.

From my experience, I may have to disagree a little bit. Growing up in Sacramento, I've taken courses at the local CC as well as Sac State since high school and I'm also a Cal alum myself. In my opinion, it's not the professor that makes a class hard or easy but moreso the competition level of the class since everything is curve. I've gotten A's at Sac State in the core class (engineering calculus, general chem) when I was still in high school school, yet I worked my butt off and could barely pulled off A- in the very same course at Berkeley.

I'm biased, but I think a UC education will pretty much prepare you for anything you will face in higher academia. I've attended top 20 graduate program in the science and I have to say while the higher you go up in education; it will be more challenging, but it wont be anything too out of the normal you'll find in undergraduate.
 
From my experience, I may have to disagree a little bit. Growing up in Sacramento, I've taken courses at the local CC as well as Sac State since high school and I'm also a Cal alum myself. In my opinion, it's not the professor that makes a class hard or easy but moreso the competition level of the class since everything is curve. I've gotten A's at Sac State in the core class (engineering calculus, general chem) when I was still in high school school, yet I worked my butt off and could barely pulled off A- in the very same course at Berkeley.

I'm biased, but I think a UC education will pretty much prepare you for anything you will face in higher academia. I've attended top 20 graduate program in the science and I have to say while the higher you go up in education; it will be more challenging, but it wont be anything too out of the normal you'll find in undergraduate.

Now that is something that should be disclosed on applications. I have never, ever had a class in college that was curved. That A I earned in microbiology? That's because I averaged 96 percent in the class, not because it was curved.

It makes me sick to think students got to have their O Chem curved (I've heard as low as 70 percent earned a B when I had straight 90-80-70-60 grading.
 
Now that is something that should be disclosed on applications. I have never, ever had a class in college that was curved. That A I earned in microbiology? That's because I averaged 96 percent in the class, not because it was curved.

It makes me sick to think students got to have their O Chem curved (I've heard as low as 70 percent earned a B when I had straight 90-80-70-60 grading.

It works both ways. A curve can foster a cut throat environment since A's are so limited and based on distribution of class statistics rather than "everyone can get an A".
 
Usually the curves are not that significant. But yeah, it sucks when you work that much harder to get a "real" A only to discover that students at other schools essentially bombed the course!
 
Now that is something that should be disclosed on applications. I have never, ever had a class in college that was curved. That A I earned in microbiology? That's because I averaged 96 percent in the class, not because it was curved.

It makes me sick to think students got to have their O Chem curved (I've heard as low as 70 percent earned a B when I had straight 90-80-70-60 grading.

Not sure where you go to school, but it's my impression that most undergraduate in the science (and especially more so in engineering courses) are curve in some way. When i took O-chem (years ago), my class consist of around 500 something students and I dont think anyone score more than 80%. The mean was usually around 50 to 60% and it was design this way. Most of the professor would gauge the difficulty level by having the exams taken ahead of time by their own graduate students.

I guess that could means we were a class full of idiots because we coudlnt even crack the 70%, but then alot of my friends that did well by that standard ended up going on to PhD programs at the likes of MIT and Stanford
 
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From my experience, I may have to disagree a little bit. Growing up in Sacramento, I've taken courses at the local CC as well as Sac State since high school and I'm also a Cal alum myself. In my opinion, it's not the professor that makes a class hard or easy but moreso the competition level of the class since everything is curve. I've gotten A's at Sac State in the core class (engineering calculus, general chem) when I was still in high school school, yet I worked my butt off and could barely pulled off A- in the very same course at Berkeley.

I'm biased, but I think a UC education will pretty much prepare you for anything you will face in higher academia. I've attended top 20 graduate program in the science and I have to say while the higher you go up in education; it will be more challenging, but it wont be anything too out of the normal you'll find in undergraduate.




I usually try not to come off harsh but:


You are biased, and most UC alumni are. Even OP somehow had the idea that his low UC GPA somehow will be valued more because it's a UC GPA - a typical thinking I encounter on the regular basis on these forums. Being in class where majority students are UC alumni and only a handful of us are State alumni, I can say that there is absolutely nothing special about the education UC system has imparted on them vs what Cal State system has imparted on me.

Education is what you make of it and the opportunities you take, not just the school you attend.

I know that admissions applications are scored and the scores are tabulated based on a number of criteria. I highly doubt that there is a category or some kind of equation that says:

Oh, well, this applicant went to Cal that means his low 3.0 GPA should be inflated by a number XYZ and now he is in the same category as the guy who went to Sac State with a straight 4.0. I just don't see that happening, especially knowing that adcoms are not some mysterious evil everpowerful force - they are regular people, graduates of all kinds of academic institutions - some are Cal State graduates and know that low GPA at Cal will not magically translate into incredulously high GPA everywhere else and most likely is a direct representation of student's academic abilities.
 
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I usually try not to come off harsh but:


You are biased, and most UC alumni are. Even OP somehow had the idea that his low UC GPA somehow will be valued more because it's a UC GPA - a typical thinking I encounter on the regular basis on these forums. Being in class where majority students are UC alumni and only a handful of us are State alumni, I can say that there is absolutely nothing special about the education UC system has imparted on them vs what Cal State system has imparted on me.

Education is what you make of it and the opportunities you take, not just the school you attend.

I know that admissions applications are scored and the scores are tabulated based on a number of criteria. I highly doubt that there is a category or some kind of equation that says:

Oh, well, this applicant went to Cal that means his low 3.0 GPA should be inflated by a number XYZ and now he is in the same category as the guy who went to Sac State with a straight 4.0. I just don't see that happening, especially knowing that adcoms are not some mysterious evil everpowerful force - they are regular people, graduates of all kinds of academic institutions - some are Cal State graduates and know that low GPA at Cal will not magically translate into incredulously high GPA everywhere else and most likely is a direct representation of student's academic abilities.

I maybe biased, but you plainly exxagerate to prove a point. Where did i say that a 3.0 at Berkeley is the same as 4.0 at Sac State? A 3.0 is fairly mediocre at anywhere. I can also tell you that from my experience on an admission committee, that school's reputation do play a fair role in acceptance.
 
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I maybe biased, but you plainly exxagerate to prove a point. Where did i say that a 3.0 at Berkeley is the same as 4.0 at Sac State? A 3.0 is fairly mediocre at anywhere. I can also tell you that from my experience on an admission committee, that school's reputation do play a fair role in acceptance.

A med. school admissions committee though, right?
 
I maybe biased, but you plainly exxagerate to prove a point. Where did i say that a 3.0 at Berkeley is the same as 4.0 at Sac State? A 3.0 is fairly mediocre at anywhere. I can also tell you that from my experience on an admission committee, that school's reputation do play a fair role in acceptance.

You didn't directly say it - but you disagreed with me and highlighted the portion of my post where I said that crappy GPA from a good school will not outweigh good GPA from an average school. By inference, I then logically concluded that since you think school reputation somehow heavily outweighs strong applications.

With all due respect, medical admissions process is different from pharmacy admissions process, so I wouldn't flash my adcom experience, especially since being pharm students we probably have more experience with pharm school admissions than yourself. 🙄
 
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You didn't directly say it - but you disagreed with me and highlighted the portion of my post where I said that crappy GPA from a good school will not outweigh good GPA from an average school. By inference, I then logically deducted that since you think school reputation somehow heavily outweighs strong applications.

With all due respect, medical admissions process is different from pharmacy admissions process, so I wouldn't flash my adcom experience, especially since being pharm students we probably have more experience with pharm school admissions than yourself. 🙄


Little do you know, he already has a Pharm.D and is going back for an M.D.!
 
Little do you know, he already has a Pharm.D and is going back for an M.D.!


Hahahahaha, then I might have made myself look like a giant jackass just now. :laugh:


Ever since our own medical students challenged us to a trivia tournament this Tuesday and said we should be prepared to loose, I've been little snappy with anyone med. :laugh:
 
Hahahahaha, then I might have made myself look like a giant jackass just now. :laugh:


Ever since our own medical students challenged us to a trivia tournament this Tuesday and said we should be prepared to loose, I've been little snappy with anyone med. :laugh:


Oh I'm sure he isn't an RPh also. 😛
 
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