6th year: Intern year queries

[mai83]

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Hey everyone! I'm new to SDN forums and am really glad I joined. These threads are so helpful in my decision making.

Before I throw down 4000 euro to Trinity, I wanted to make sure I have all the facts right.

My primary concerns are about the 6th intern year. Does this essentially make our program a 6 year program disguised as a five? If not, why is 5 years better than a 4 year program? What kind of fees can one expect to pay during this year? Is it possible to get paid? Is the intern year required to graduate?

I am still a little clueless with the process of becoming a full out doctor, so please don't mind my ignorance. At what point do students start their residences? 6th, 7th year? What kind of tests are required to go back to Canada?

Clearly I have lots of questions unanwered. Please feel free to add anything that may help someone in the same clueless predicament.

 

[med2UCC]

Hey there, the intern year is only required if you want to register and practice medicine in Ireland. If you are heading back to Canada after you graduate, you write the MCCEE in your final year (you can't write it until you are within 9 months of graduating) and then apply on the match. Under current rules you can apply to a variety of programs on the 1st round in all provinces except 2 of the prairie ones (Alberta and Saskachewan, off the top of my head) and anything left on the 2nd round. Some return of service applies for the 1st round ones, some of the second round ones don't have return of service. Check out the CaRMS website and the Medical Council of Canada website for more info on both of those.
Intern year pays, just like 1st year of residence back home. They don't do residence programs as such here, it is a totally different and much lengthier training system. After intern year you become a Senior House Officer (SHO) and can apply for training schemes in a discipline that appeals to you. Once you complete training and write some exams you become a registrar in some area of medicine, and after several more years of training you can write more exams and become a specialist Reg and then wait for someone to die or retire so you can become a consultant. There are many SHO's and regs, fewer specialist regs and even fewer consultants (9 neurosurgery consultants in the whole country). Since only the consultants run their own teams, the waiting lists for some specialties are epic (I've waited 18 months to see a neurologist - in Nova Scotia, which is very short of doctors even in Canadian terms, it took 1 month). The whole process, from intern to consultant, can take 10-14 years, so going home to train after graduation is very appealing. For example, family medicine here is a 3 year program after the intern year, and they are upping it to 4 years soon (so 5 years total) - as compared to the 2 years total you would do in Canada to come out at the end with the same qualification. And you have to wait until the end of your intern year to apply for the program, and many people don't get in the 1st or 2nd or even 3rd time they apply, so you could be in a holding pattern for several years just trying to get into a GP training scheme (working as an SHO and getting nothing except older).
Hope this clarifies. Cheers,
M

 

[mai83]

wow, thanks for all that. Your hands must hurt from all the typing! Doing my intern year in Ireland doesn't sound appealing whatsoever. With what you have heard from fellow Canadians (I'm assuming you are one), how likely is it to do an intern year in Canada? Is an intern year in Canada equivalent to a year of residency?

 

[Coccinelle]

From what i understand, there is no such thing as an intern year in Canada as you simply go straight into residency following med school.

 

[pattycanuck]

For clarification of med2ucc's point, interns can earn a lot and use it to pay off Canadian loans if saved wisely: I earned >70,000EUR in my intern year (>C$110,000) - and that is obviously much more than the measly $45,000 we earn here as R1/PGY1/first year residents, Your cost of living is much more expensive, but you should still have loads to pay some stuff off. I paid off EUR35,000 off (approx$55,000 of my loan off) in one year with my intern jobs. In general in Ireland, you are paid for overtime (usually 1.5T over 39-60h/week and 2T for all over and Sundays/bank holidays). In Ontario now they have just introduced some "overtime" of $50-100 FOR A WHOLE OVERNIGHT SHIFT if worked (pittance to what was earned in Ireland for a shift at night - ie 15 hours at over EUR20/hour as an intern ...). This is definitely a bonus for working in Ireland if money is an issue and that spots are open to you as non-EUs by the time you graduate.

Not sure how the EWTD will change all of that if implemented soon (even though they said that they would implement that when I was a student - (search EWTD on this website - explaining it gets me riled up).

Intern year in Canada/ the US is for all practical purposes equivalent to the intern year in Ireland - ie you are licenced to prescribe; the basic difference between residents/Irish postgrads and students/clerks. To point this out more stoichly, some of my staff/attendings/consultants still introduce me as an intern (even the younger ones).

 

[mai83]

Thanks! Sounds like if you can stay in Ireland you really should! After doing the intern year in Ireland, what are they steps than, to return to NA? Is this advisable given the money earning potential since you have secured a spot? Would you have to start all over if you return to NA?

 

[leorl]

No no, don't get the idea that you Should stay here for intern year. Yeah you can earn a lot of money but you will be required to repeat an intern year back home and "delaying" your career track. This isn't so much a point for younger students, but some older students might mind this...especially with family back home. It's simple..you just apply for the match at the same time as doing the intern year...but you may run into problems with arranging times for interviews if you can't get time off work.

It is going to be increasingly harder to get an internship post in Ireland for non-EUs. This became a real problem this year and a major source of grief. Do not pin hopes on internship here, and do what you can to go back after final year - it'll save you some grief and stress during final year. Yeah, the money's nice...but there are other things that are nicer... At the moment, EUWTD isn't really being enforced but this could really change in the near future, thus limiting earning potential.

 

[Sage880]

From what i understand, there is no such thing as an intern year in Canada as you simply go straight into residency following med school.

Your first year of residency is your intern year.

 

[Coccinelle]

Thanks for the clarification Sage!