6yr BS/MD programs...program director views?

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Hello. This is my first post.
I am in my second year of high school right now. I will be in high school for one more academic year as I will be graduating early due to AP courses (which I don't intend to use for college credit), excess credits every semester and summer school. I will be applying for admission to some 6 year combined BS/MD programs...perhaps all that are out there. So, I'll start the BS/MD track when I'm 17 and finish the MD at age 23.


I really don't want to do the whole undergrad thing, I just feel that getting a bachelors degree...even if it is in say a biology/biochemistry field...i'll be learning it in a way that is not applied to medicine...thus i would not enjoy it...thus may recieve a low GPA and then not get into medical school ever all together.

I am wondering if any medical school students here know of PD views of graduates of these programs? Are they taken less seriously because they lack the traditional four year bachelors degree?
 
Hello. This is my first post.
I am in my second year of high school right now. I will be in high school for one more academic year as I will be graduating early due to AP courses (which I don't intend to use for college credit), excess credits every semester and summer school. I will be applying for admission to some 6 year combined BS/MD programs...perhaps all that are out there. So, I'll start the BS/MD track when I'm 17 and finish the MD at age 23.


I really don't want to do the whole undergrad thing, I just feel that getting a bachelors degree...even if it is in say a biology/biochemistry field...i'll be learning it in a way that is not applied to medicine...thus i would not enjoy it...thus may recieve a low GPA and then not get into medical school ever all together.

I am wondering if any medical school students here know of PD views of graduates of these programs? Are they taken less seriously because they lack the traditional four year bachelors degree?

It's pretty clear based on the fact that these programs are fewer in number each year that the model is falling out of favor. The average age of med students is increasing each year, and med schools are putting more and more emphasis on maturity.

I personally would advise you to enjoy college, try lots of different things, and allow yourself to "season" a bit prior to putting yourself squarely on a med school track. You should not be making career decisions at 17 before trying your hands at different things. The statement that you feel getting a bachelors degree is not related enough to medicine for you to do well at it suggests you are far from the level of maturity required at this point, and that a few more years of broader education would actually do you a lot of good. You are going to have many years of coursework unrelated to your ultimate career, both in college and med school, and you are expected to excel at it all, not pick and choose what you are interested in enough to do well at.

I would suggest that if you are concerned about not getting a good enough GPA in a regular college track to get into med school, you should be concerned about getting good enough grades and test scores in med school (regardless of how you got in) to get you to your goal. It's not like doing well only matters until you get in. It actually is good to have a stronger foundation and track record of doing well at the college level before you attempt med school, or you may crash and burn and end up deciding between specialties you have less interest in. So there is some advantage to med schools forcing folks to get their share of As before matriculating; it sets them up for future success. The folks who get in with their 3.5+/31+ know that in the adcom's opinion they have proven their ability to thrive in med school. Folks who get in right out of high school don't have that seal of approval, and that could create some angst.

Medicine is a service industry, and folks with broader and more diverse backgrounds are regarded by adcoms as actually bringing more to the table than someone who focuses in on premed/med school courses from the get go. For this reason nontrads and non-science majors are the two groups whose admissions numbers have been increasing the most over the last few years. Being of broad background is now the ideal, and being narrow in focus exclusively to things that will help in medicine is a flaw schools are trying to get away from. I think you are not doing yourself any favors with these accelerated programs.

Additionally, you have to ask yourself why you are in such a rush to be in med school. Life doesn't get better in med school. If anything college is where you will have the most freedom, the most social life opportunities, the fewest obligations. Most people consider this one of the best times in their lives. By contrast once you start the medical school part of your program, your 20s are over. You will have the least free time, the most regimented schedule and a ton of obligations, only to be followed by residency which steps things up a notch. It benefits you to push this off for 4 years of liberal arts education if you have the opportunity. It will always be there and is better faced when you are more mature anyhow. All too frequently these abbreviated programs appeal to those who would most benefit from those who are least mature in their decision making. If you are doing it to get through med school quicker, or because you are afraid of the competition when applying the normal way, you need the seasoning that college provides. You need to step back, learn what college has to offer, broaden your perspectives, and if medicine is still of interest, then proceed. Rushing toward some nebulous goal with the desire to do nothing else along the way is precisely the lack of maturity that is causing schools to rethink these programs.
 
For the love of God enjoy undergrad.
 
The statement that you feel getting a bachelors degree is not related enough to medicine for you to do well at it suggests you are far from the level of maturity required at this point

haha i don't know if i would automatically question someone's maturity for considering a bachelor's a waste of time, but i agree with you in principle. For what it's worth to the OP, the first 2 years of med school are really not needed either.
 
For the love of God enjoy undergrad.

👍

FFS, don't rush some of the best years you'll have in your life for a while. Besides, once you get to undergrad, you may find a passion for something else other than medicine. Every semi-smart person I knew in high school said they wanted to go to medical school, but of course, that changed fast after the 1st year of college.
 
haha i don't know if i would automatically question someone's maturity for considering a bachelor's a waste of time, but i agree with you in principle. For what it's worth to the OP, the first 2 years of med school are really not needed either.
Lol...I was kinda exactly the opposite. I came into undergrad ready to drag it out for a looong time, but I just got so bored with the coursework that I graduated in 2.5. don't get me wrong - college life was awesome. It was having to take the courses that was a drag 😛.
 
don't go to one of these programs. you are a much different person at 23-25 compared to 17. traditionally people that go to these programs never match well. go to undergrad, major in something non-science, and rock out the medical school interviews. seriously. life is not a race!

this is coming from someone who was in your position 9-10 years ago and turned down going to BA/MD programs in order to go to a regular 4 yr undergrad. I AM SO HAPPY I DID THIS. not only do i go to a way better medical school than i would have gone to compared to the ba/md program, i'm much more well-rounded and have done alot of cool different things.

being a doctor is great but not all its cracked up to be.... definitely diversify your life and you will be a happier doctor.

my 2 cents.
 
plus i think for some people (not all) it would be hard to socialize in residency with a 23 year old if the rest of the residents are 27-29 year olds. not always the case, but it definitely can be a little isolating i would imagine.

what law2doc is saying is right. the model is really falling out of favor.
 
i only wish i could go back to undergrad... looking back, i had fun but i would have made it so i had a lot more fun! now life is all responsibility and residency stuff and being serious. don't grow up too fast! you'll wonder where all the time went
 
i also graduated from high school at 17 and am currently in a BS/MD program. I came in thinking I was going to be in and out quickly since I also thought undergrad was a waste of time. Now, I'm in the end of my second year, and my opinion has completely changed. There is so much to do in college: study abroad, volunteer broad, etc. This BS/MD program is also worthless since it's advisable to also apply to more schools and in the end as long as you gave a good GPA and MCAT score, you're bound to get into any other school, and probably one much better than the one part of the BS/MD program. If you have any questions, you can private message me and we can talk further.
 
Hello. This is my first post.
I am in my second year of high school right now. I will be in high school for one more academic year as I will be graduating early due to AP courses (which I don't intend to use for college credit), excess credits every semester and summer school. I will be applying for admission to some 6 year combined BS/MD programs...perhaps all that are out there. So, I'll start the BS/MD track when I'm 17 and finish the MD at age 23.


I really don't want to do the whole undergrad thing, I just feel that getting a bachelors degree...even if it is in say a biology/biochemistry field...i'll be learning it in a way that is not applied to medicine...thus i would not enjoy it...thus may recieve a low GPA and then not get into medical school ever all together.

I am wondering if any medical school students here know of PD views of graduates of these programs? Are they taken less seriously because they lack the traditional four year bachelors degree?

It doesn't make a difference. No matter what you're applying for, PD's will look at board scores (esp Step 1), clinical grades, pre-clinical grades, LORs, course evaluations, research, school ranking, and all the way at the very bottom...your age. Maybe.

You age is pretty much the only thing that will give away the fact that you're a BA/MD student unless you opt to engrave your CV with that information.

Regarding the whole "Should you actually enroll into one or not?", I won't be as harsh as the other posters. Quite simply, pre-med sucks. Traveling abroad, volunteering, enjoying the good college life. These are all things that many if not all pre-meds miss out on. You can usually find them miserably studying in the campus library.

If you think that medicine is really the right field for you, go ahead and skip 2 years college.
 
The responses above highlight common misconceptions and truths regarding BA/MD programs. I am currently in medical school in a BA/MD program.

From my experience, there is a mix of jealousy and difference of opinion and ignorance which leads to some of the misconceptions regarding these programs; and these misconceptions are:
1) BA/MD applicants don't match as well - not sure where "lalalala" got that one from
- At my school and from students I know others, a decent number of the top AOA candidates entered in as BA/MD students
- In addition, everyone in my particular program had a 1500+ on their SAT, several got into Harvard, Yale, and UPENN (including myself) and we all turned them down
2) You cannot diversify your interests and be "well-rounded"
- Go to a 7- and not 6-year program and most programs will encourage you to study abroad, pick a humanities major, etc. if that is what you are into
3) The programs are decreasing in number per year (as per Law2Doc)
- Last time I checked, they had increased nearly 600% since the late 90's in terms of the number of students accepted directly into medical school out of high school

The good things about 7-year programs
1) You don't have to deal with gaming - the art of applying, bull****ing, interviewing, and dealing with the capricious nature of medical school admissions
2) You have the freedom to learn what you want in undergrad
- If anything, you are more free to take risks, study abroad, take random classes because you are already in medical school
3) You distinguish yourself from the "premedical students"
- At my program, I was taking graduate courses in my freshmen year and was already doing research at the NIH
- People are impressed; generally the stats of a BA/MD student kill any other applicant to even Ivy league institutions

Advice:
1) Don't go to a state BA/MD program or a 6-year, those are in decline and are restrictive of what you can do.
2) Go to a private 7- or 8-year BA/MD program that lets you major in whatever and study abroad
3) Make sure you explore programs that provide scholarships.
- My program carries with it substantial scholarship money which again makes it better than the typical "premedical student" applicant route
4) Don't go to a BA/MD program unless you are committed, hard-working, self-motivated, driven and the like
- It is not an option for the lazy to duck out of the MCATs, it is something that is a blessing those who know they want to be a physician but don't want to put up with medical school admissions garbage.


Finally, it is true that most BA/MD students if they went through regular undergrad and then applied could probably go to a better medical school. But, I have saved an inordinate amount of stress, money, wasted time, and grief by not having to apply to medical school. I have had the chance to take classes I never would have as a premed for fear of getting a bad grade (Ancient Greek, Fiction Writing, graduate courses in Forensic Pathology, Tropical Medicine, etc.).

In short, if you fit the personality and know you are suited for medicine and can commit now, go for it.
 
I don't see problem with embarking on a BA/BS/MD program. I will be applying to 7 year ones. If I choose not to become a physician, I'll just work towards the bachelors degree (considering non science as well!). This is nothing new. British/Irish schools follow a straight out of high school MBBS program.

I really don't want to spend a fourth year at my high school if I don't have to. I go to a boarding school and absolutely hate living on campus here/dorming and all. Perhaps it will be better in college...im considering getting an apartment with close friends instead.
 
3) The programs are decreasing in number per year (as per Law2Doc)
- Last time I checked, they had increased nearly 600% since the late 90's in terms of the number of students accepted directly into medical school out of high school...
Advice:
1) Don't go to a state BA/MD program or a 6-year, those are in decline and are restrictive of what you can do.

Um, are you disagreeing with me or agreeing? We are talking about 6 year programs -- see the title of the thread. These ARE being phased out, whatever you believe.
 
In short, if you fit the personality and know you are suited for medicine and can commit now, go for it.

I think everyone's point is that you are less likely to actually "know" this at age 17 as well as you might a few years later. There is no good reason to push the decision point earlier.
 
I'm not sure where the idea that combined degree students don't match as well. I wouldn't say they match any better, but just yesterday at match day I saw combined degree "alumni" from our school match in integrated plastics, ortho, optho, derm, etc.

The debate about these combined degree programs is endless and seems to come up every few weeks. The only conclusion we can draw is that every person is different, and yes some people are not cut out for med school at age 20 or 21 but then there are others who are successful. There is way too much individual variation to make sweeping generalizations like we are seeing in this thread

My 2 cents.
 
I think everyone's point is that you are less likely to actually "know" this at age 17 as well as you might a few years later. There is no good reason to push the decision point earlier.

Again, individual variation comes into play. For the average person, yes, that is way too young but you will meet high schoolers much more mature than your average med student.
 
There is way too much individual variation to make sweeping generalizations like we are seeing in this thread

Individuals vary, but the average person doesn't. You can say programs are a bad idea for the average person. I think that's what most on this thread have done. And the reason these programs are being phased out.
 
Individuals vary, but the average person doesn't. You can say programs are a bad idea for the average person. I think that's what most on this thread have done. And the reason these programs are being phased out.

But that argument is fallacious. These programs were not originally designed for the average high schooler, and the average high schooler is not one who would apply and take an acceptance at one of these schools.

I don't agree on the phasing out of these programs but I do think that these programs need to be at least 7 years long, since many people wind up taking a 7th year anyways.
 
But that argument is fallacious. These programs were not originally designed for the average high schooler, and the average high schooler is not one who would apply and take an acceptance at one of these schools.

The regular med school selection process does a good job of picking out exceptional college grads, after observing their college track record over 4 years or more. When you select people right out of high school you don't have that track record. So sure, while these programs advertise that they are for "exceptional" high schoolers, the folks may or may not pan out, as compared to their college counterparts who jumped through more hurdles. But my point is less about their raw academic abilities though and more about their decision making abilities, which is something that does change over the course of a few years. It's not whether they can do the work (generally they can), but whether they are able to make as good decisions at 17 as they can at 21. If they are making decisions based on the goal of getting to med school sooner, or of avoiding the MCAT or application process, they simply aren't focusing on the right things in terms of a career decision. And so these people are perfect examples of folks who would actually benefit from a few years of liberal arts college and not being on a set track. This is a path of lifetime learning, lifetime tests, hard work. It also is a field where you deal with heavy subjects such as death and disease. It is not for everyone, and requires a lot of soul searching before you launch into it. So spending more time with the regular college path and the "why medicine?" questions is always a good thing.
 
Here's my $0.02.

I was also in your position. I was accepted out of high school to an BS/MD program and was very excited about the opportunity to get on the "fast track" to med school. The university wasn't my favorite of all that I had visited, but I figured opportunities like this don't happen very often.

During the summer I remembered what a faculty member from a different university told me during a scholarship interview; he recommended that I only do this program if I felt that it offered me everything I wanted to get out of college. He also told me that I would have no problems getting into med school (barring some huge screw-up during college) and should really enjoy the undergraduate experience. I decided to start at this other university instead and drop the BS/MD program.

I also came into college with a lot of AP credits. I chose a non-science major (and LOVED every minute of it), took all the classes that I wanted to, studied abroad (which was probably one of the best experiences of my life), had lots of fun, met SO many people, developed as a person, and won a scholarship post-graduation to live and study in another country for a year.

After all of this I realized that I still want to go to med school, but I didn't do the traditional route. I'll be doing a post-bac program this upcoming year to get all my pre-reqs done, and I'm actually quite glad I didn't do them in undergrad. Every pre-med I knew in undergrad was constantly stressing about an upcoming test, doing well on the MCATS, volunteering enough, getting the right LORs, and so much more. I, on the other hand, chose to do what interested me. Despite my non-science major I still did some research related to medicine, and I will eventually go to med school But I can honestly say that having the opportunities to live abroad, learn what interested me, and have the experiences I've had without the stress of being a pre-med student (or even a BS/MD) has made me so much more ready to be a doctor than had I just entered the program right out of high school.

WOW...that's a long one! 🙂
 
everyone finds their niche in college. so dont worry if you think that college will just be an extension of high school. you will really enjoy undergrad.
 
don't go to one of these programs. you are a much different person at 23-25 compared to 17. traditionally people that go to these programs never match well. go to undergrad, major in something non-science, and rock out the medical school interviews. seriously. life is not a race!

this is coming from someone who was in your position 9-10 years ago and turned down going to BA/MD programs in order to go to a regular 4 yr undergrad. I AM SO HAPPY I DID THIS. not only do i go to a way better medical school than i would have gone to compared to the ba/md program, i'm much more well-rounded and have done alot of cool different things.

being a doctor is great but not all its cracked up to be.... definitely diversify your life and you will be a happier doctor.

my 2 cents.

I second this. Your decision about your career now may not be the same 4-5 years later especially how little your world is now (2nd year high school). In my high school group of 6 people, everyone was pre-med except for me. I was pre-pharm. We were very clear about our decision, and so we all took the bio route as undergrads. Now, I'm the one who is going to med school. The wannabe pediatrician is now going to law school, because he found criminal 101 class. Another one is going for her teaching credential. Others ... JD, DDS, PharmD. Only one person, my closest friend, stick with her med plan and will be applying next year.

The bottom line is that your undergrad years will not be a waste of time. More than anything, they will either help you find the right career path if med isn't what you thought it was or solidify and strengthen your desire to become a physician. So that by the time you graduate, you will know exactly who you are and exactly what you want to do in life.
 
I second this. Your decision about your career now may not be the same 4-5 years later especially how little your world is now (2nd year high school). In my high school group of 6 people, everyone was pre-med except for me. I was pre-pharm. We were very clear about our decision, and so we all took the bio route as undergrads. Now, I'm the one who is going to med school. The wannabe pediatrician is now going to law school, because he found criminal 101 class. Another one is going for her teaching credential. Others ... JD, DDS, PharmD. Only one person, my closest friend, stick with her med plan and will be applying next year.

The bottom line is that your undergrad years will not be a waste of time. More than anything, they will either help you find the right career path if med isn't what you thought it was or solidify and strengthen your desire to become a physician. So that by the time you graduate, you will know exactly who you are and exactly what you want to do in life.

OP: As related to this post, I'm an undergraduate senior. I'm 23, graduating summa cum laude come May, and always assumed I'd go into medicine (but without that slightly obnoxious save-the-world-come-hell-or-high-water idealist mentality you see with some people like that). That said, and despite the fact that I looked at college the wrong way for over half of my time in university, I think "tread carefully" is the best I could tell you about all this.

Your life will go by quickly regardless of whether you try to speed things along. For me, high school is one big blur. I barely remember classes I know I took and got As in here at college. My undergrad time itself flew by. Medical school will no doubt do the same in retrospect.

Maybe slowing down a bit and smelling the roses isn't such a bad idea.

But I digress.
 
I was just looking at all these posts and the thing that I have noticed is that nobody has regretted what they decided to do. Those who decided to do the BS/MD programs support their decision and so do the people who decided to do the full college and even taken time off. I know that as a dual degree student, I wouldn't have changed a thing (except taking a bullcrap business class my freshman year).

Go with what you are leaning towards and what YOU think will make you happy because both paths are good choices and will take you where you want to go in the end.
 
OP: As related to this post, I'm an undergraduate senior. I'm 23, graduating summa cum laude come May, and always assumed I'd go into medicine (but without that slightly obnoxious save-the-world-come-hell-or-high-water idealist mentality you see with some people like that). That said, and despite the fact that I looked at college the wrong way for over half of my time in university, I think "tread carefully" is the best I could tell you about all this.

Your life will go by quickly regardless of whether you try to speed things along. For me, high school is one big blur. I barely remember classes I know I took and got As in here at college. My undergrad time itself flew by. Medical school will no doubt do the same in retrospect.

Maybe slowing down a bit and smelling the roses isn't such a bad idea.

But I digress.

I can offer the alternate viewpoint. I'm 23 and one year away from graduating from med school (6 yr BA/MD)

High school was one tortuous drag for me. Putting up with ultracompetitive classmates for 4 years was something I could never do to myself again.

Conversely, my undergrad years, truncated as they were, were sublime. There was no competition because at the end of the day, all of us knew we were moving on. No need to spend hours locked in the library to bump that GPA up by decimal points. No need to spend months squeezing every last point out of an MCAT score. No need to spend thousands of dollars applying, interviewing, and facing the prospect of medical school rejection. No need to overload my schedule with science courses just to prove to something to an acceptance committee.

"Slowing down and smelling the roses" isn't a bad idea.

But there hasn't been a day where I've looked back and said, "Man...I wish I did it the hard way."
 
I really don't want to do the whole undergrad thing, I just feel that getting a bachelors degree...even if it is in say a biology/biochemistry field...i'll be learning it in a way that is not applied to medicine...thus i would not enjoy it...thus may recieve a low GPA and then not get into medical school ever all together.

Some things to consider -

  • Those 2 years of undergrad and first year of med school? You'll be learning the most boring things in a way that is not applied to medicine ANYWAY....

    If you will not enjoy it and foresee that you might receive a low GPA as a result, then that is also a problem - even those 6 year BS/MD programs have a mandatory GPA that you need to maintain. Or else you'll flunk out of MS1 - which is a REAL drag because you won't have a bachelor's degree at all....
  • How do you know that you won't like the whole "undergrad thing" if you haven't even tried it? Don't knock anything until you've done it!
I am wondering if any medical school students here know of PD views of graduates of these programs? Are they taken less seriously because they lack the traditional four year bachelors degree?

I've heard one or two PDs (in very competitive specialties) say flat out that they would not rank students from these 6 year programs - they feel that you're just not mature enough at 23 to be an intern. A lot of the students in these 6 year programs seem to match very, very well, though - so it probably wouldn't hold you back that much.

It isn't the lack of a bachelor's degree - it's the perceived level of maturity. Some of the people in the 6 year program ARE extremely immature and do the dumbest things you'd ever imagine. They have terrible social skills and have a lot of trouble on rotations. One guy in the 6 year program actually mouthed off to the chairman of a department....eeeeeek....

But many of the people in the 6 year program are wonderful, mature people who are great teammates and fantastic to work with. One of the people at my school who was in the 6 year program was an EMT for years, and helped raise 4 younger siblings. That person is more mature at the age of 24 than some 34 year olds that I know, and is going to be a very capable intern. So it's very dependent on the person.
 
ok, first off....get in, then worry. second, most of these people don't have a clue about what they're talking about.
i am a first year med student who went through a similar program and will be graduating from med school when i'm 23.
maturity comes from experience, which is not necessarily a derivative of age. thus, don't worry about being "too young". half of our student council, including the school's current vice president, is part of the program...we fit in very well...few know we're in the program, even fewer care...
as for residency, this year, one person in the program got into neurosurgery at UCSF, peds at Yale-New Haven Hosp., and a third received a derm residency at MGH. So....program directors don't really seem to care.
a few premeds here and in college fret a lot...so don't listen to them. many of them would damage you for no apparent reason appart from jealousy.
so chill out, do the program...if you like undergrad, then extend your time there (you always have the choice). Anyways, get in, then decide.
peace.
 
Hello. This is my first post.
I am in my second year of high school right now. I will be in high school for one more academic year as I will be graduating early due to AP courses (which I don't intend to use for college credit), excess credits every semester and summer school. I will be applying for admission to some 6 year combined BS/MD programs...perhaps all that are out there. So, I'll start the BS/MD track when I'm 17 and finish the MD at age 23.


I really don't want to do the whole undergrad thing, I just feel that getting a bachelors degree...even if it is in say a biology/biochemistry field...i'll be learning it in a way that is not applied to medicine...thus i would not enjoy it...thus may recieve a low GPA and then not get into medical school ever all together.

I am wondering if any medical school students here know of PD views of graduates of these programs? Are they taken less seriously because they lack the traditional four year bachelors degree?

I think if you polled all students who entered the 6 year BS/MD programs 6 years after starting, 20-40% percent would say that they made the right choice. For the 8 year programs, if you polled them all 8 years after entry, it would probably be something like 30-50%. From what I have seen, many students who enter will not complete the programs due to stringent requirements (programs vary in their requirements), changing their minds about medicine, wishing to pursue other interests, etc. There will also be students who excel in these programs and become exceptional physicians. But I would say the former outnumber the latter.

I was accepted to an 8 year program way back when, chose the normal route instead, and have no regrets; I have more friends who did not succeed in the 6 or 8 year programs than friends who succeeded in them.
 
It isn't the lack of a bachelor's degree - it's the perceived level of maturity. Some of the people in the 6 year program ARE extremely immature and do the dumbest things you'd ever imagine. They have terrible social skills and have a lot of trouble on rotations. One guy in the 6 year program actually mouthed off to the chairman of a department....eeeeeek....

I don't think 2 years of undergrad would fix those problems...
 
so don't listen to them. many of them would damage you for no apparent reason appart from jealousy.

I don't think there's much jealousy except in your own head. Most folks on this thread (including a few who were actually in programs such as you describe) are suggesting that doing the liberal arts college thing for 4 years is a positive thing, and something you are missing out on, and that making career decisions later is better. College is the best 4 years of your life (or should be) and so I'm not sure who should be jealous; you will never have that amount of freedom, that lack of obligation, and ability to try a broad variety of academic and pre-professional experiences ever again. But hey, if it makes you feel better about your decision to think the world is jealous of you, then whatever helps you get through the night is fine by me.:laugh:
 
Hello. This is my first post.
I am in my second year of high school right now. I will be in high school for one more academic year as I will be graduating early due to AP courses (which I don't intend to use for college credit), excess credits every semester and summer school. I will be applying for admission to some 6 year combined BS/MD programs...perhaps all that are out there. So, I'll start the BS/MD track when I'm 17 and finish the MD at age 23.


I really don't want to do the whole undergrad thing, I just feel that getting a bachelors degree...even if it is in say a biology/biochemistry field...i'll be learning it in a way that is not applied to medicine...thus i would not enjoy it...thus may recieve a low GPA and then not get into medical school ever all together.

I am wondering if any medical school students here know of PD views of graduates of these programs? Are they taken less seriously because they lack the traditional four year bachelors degree?

I suggest you spend some time in college first before you blow it off. It's not just about school work.
 
I don't think 2 years of undergrad would fix those problems...

No, but 2 additional years of undergrad, the stringent application process, a personal statement, and med school interviews would have helped weed some of them out.... I think the overall sentiment is that once you're in those BS/MD programs, the promise "guaranteed med school admission" doesn't do a lot to develop your maturity level.

I don't think there's much jealousy except in your own head.

:laugh:
 
One guy in the 6 year program actually mouthed off to the chairman of a department....eeeeeek....

In full view of other students? Was he/she on drugs?
 
No, but 2 additional years of undergrad, the stringent application process, a personal statement, and med school interviews would have helped weed some of them out.... I think the overall sentiment is that once you're in those BS/MD programs, the promise "guaranteed med school admission" doesn't do a lot to develop your maturity level.

:laugh:

Heck, I'll go one step even further. I don't think a guaranteed med school admission pushes you to do as well in college, and you will pay dearly for it in med school. I know there are plenty of times I could have gotten a B but fought like hell to get the A. It's times like those that make you a better student in the long run.
 
In full view of other students? Was he/she on drugs?

I don't know if he was on drugs - I kind of wish that he had been, because then at least that's sort of fixable....

It wasn't in full view of other students...it was in full view of his residents! 😱
 
Heck, I'll go one step even further. I don't think a guaranteed med school admission pushes you to do as well in college, and you will pay dearly for it in med school. I know there are plenty of times I could have gotten a B but fought like hell to get the A. It's times like those that make you a better student in the long run.

Yeah - I think the people who will do well in the 6 year BS/MD programs are people who are already pretty mature and academic self-starters. A lot of people who made AOA in my school were in the 6 year program, so they kind of don't need someone to push them.

But there are also a lot of people in the BS/MD programs who really probably should have gone through a traditional route - they need the extra push, and the extra time to mature. So it really depends on the individual.
 
I don't know if he was on drugs - I kind of wish that he had been, because then at least that's sort of fixable....

It wasn't in full view of other students...it was in full view of his residents! 😱

I would have loved to be a fly-on-the-wall when the chairman met with the attendings/residents for final evaluation feedback of this student

:laugh:
 
I don't know if he was on drugs - I kind of wish that he had been, because then at least that's sort of fixable....

It wasn't in full view of other students...it was in full view of his residents! 😱

That's not a maturity issue. That's a stupidity issue. 🙄
 
No, but 2 additional years of undergrad, the stringent application process, a personal statement, and med school interviews would have helped weed some of them out.... I think the overall sentiment is that once you're in those BS/MD programs, the promise "guaranteed med school admission" doesn't do a lot to develop your maturity level.

I'd argue the 2 additional years of undergrad, the stringent (and often demeaning) application process, a personal statement that's filled with flowery BS, and the same repetitive med school interviews would provide for an enhanced level of bitterness.

Not maturity.

Medical students who have the audacity to mouth off to their chairmen in full view of residents are never going to change. You could slap on anywhere from 2 to 20 additional years of college and it wouldn't make a difference.
 
I'd argue the 2 additional years of undergrad, the stringent (and often demeaning) application process, a personal statement that's filled with flowery BS, and the same repetitive med school interviews would provide for an enhanced level of bitterness.

It might not make them more mature, but I still believe that the process would have weeded some of them out. And, once they didn't get into med school the first time, they'd have to do something (get a job, etc.) that might increase their maturity level.
 
There are a few six year programs left. There are a few more seven year programs left. I see no reason to do it the traditional longer way if I am sure know what I want now. I have I have the grades to get it, I'll take that acceptance. Even if I don't choose to become physician, I can still continue towards a traditional bachelors. I see no reason to take any more general education classes if I've already done them at my school.

I absolutely hate living in dorms at my high school! I think undergraduate is an absolute waste of time. The british model i think is better. 6 years straight of high schoo.l

There are two undergraduate 6 year BS/BA/MD programs near family of mine...i suppose i'll just live with them...assuming i'll get accepted.
 
If you wanna start making money ASAP, obviously go with the 6-year BS/MD route.

If you want to "enjoy" your time in college (some pre-meds enjoy college, some pre-meds are stressed all of the time and time-strapped), then go the traditional route
 
Congratulations young man! Your parents should be proud of you. I just registered to ecourage you. Do not pay attention to all the compaining about how hard they work. If you can do it well, go for it.

You do not need to go through 4 years of premed/BS/more loans (I didn't). If you want to spend more time educationg yourself: do fellowships or get Masters/PhD. That will count.

PDs look at your scores and clerkship performance. If you ace both, guess what, you are better than your competitors... And if you are young at the same time - good for you. Age does not equal maturity. Dr. Kaplan who wrote Synopsis of Clinical Psychiatry graduated from med school at 21.

Best of luck!
 
pride alert. Being a young doctor doesn't put you above anyone in the profession. Missing out on undergrad also will make you yearn for something that comes around once. I hear it from people I know who did it your way.

If your interest in the world is only medicine, then you're already a crappy doctor. Don't do it because you think a 6yr program will make you "cooler" or "better" or "smarter" than everyone else. Go to undergrad, kick ass, travel abroad, go on a mission trip, get laid. Once you start medicine, there's no turning back until you retire.
 
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