7,000 nurses on strike- Mount Sinai, NY

[HemeOncHopeful19]

I think admin will go down with the ship. I haven’t seen or even heard of massive reduction in administrative numbers. Quite the opposite, it seems very common for systems to create new admin positions every year.

Yeah that was kinda my point. I’ve never heard of a layoff in healthcare administration - I guess at best you might say when they close down a hospital perhaps not EVERYONE ends up getting hired somewhere else but that misses the mark IMO

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[nimbus]

Is there any precedent for a massive reduction in C-suite/bureaucracy in any industry in our country?

I do think it would be good for the country/system. Many of these administrators are former bedside nurses and even those who aren’t probably have the intellect/capability to be a bedside nurse if that’s where the jobs were. Not to mention it would probably be resisted by that same nursing profession because it provides an alternative career path to leave the bedside.

I just don’t really see a realistic path in that direction.

Hospital and health systems' dire finances are spurring layoffs—here are 35 examples from 2022

Updated on Nov. 21 at 11:00 a.m. | Despite an industrywide labor shortage, provider organizations say rising expenses and pandemic disruptions are to blame for service cuts, shutdowns and layoffs.

www.fiercehealthcare.com

 

[Southpaw]

Hospital and health systems' dire finances are spurring layoffs—here are 35 examples from 2022

Updated on Nov. 21 at 11:00 a.m. | Despite an industrywide labor shortage, provider organizations say rising expenses and pandemic disruptions are to blame for service cuts, shutdowns and layoffs.

www.fiercehealthcare.com

There’s a disconnect though between that article and what others of us experience in our systems. I see admin just plop new people into new spots every year. They just create new positions. Systems get so large, and there appear to be so many buckets of money, that it gives an appearance of no one being overall accountable for what goes on. In my opinion it’s a system that desperately needs to change, and for that to occur it may mean the system failing.

What I see is physicians getting more and more burned out while a select few ‘providers’ get plopped into sweet admin gigs where all of the sudden they just ‘meeting’ all day and are now minimally caring for patients. Well guess what, now another physician has to be hired to take the now admin physicians role as the patients are still out there and need care. Effectively the system gained the expense of a new admin just so they can meeting all day and push around some blocks. But no additional income stream was added to that equation. It’s still the same number of patients being seen overall.

 

[vm26]

they'll be cutting pay to physicians to pay for this 20% raise and staffing ratio mandates probably. where else would the $ come from

Of course...I know this is field dependent but our next contract negogiation with our HC system should be interesting. They are hemorrhaging money (in part by paying techs outrageous locum's rates, I heard that a CT tech is making $150/hr) so they will likely with tight with money. However they going to have to continue if not up their subsidization if they want to maintain 24/7 radiological services. Guess we will see.

 

[Gasworks]

I was under the impression that hospitals carry strike insurance. We had a nursing strike at a large teaching hospital where I worked and the hospital was fully insured for all strike related losses.

 

[ambiturner]

Of course...I know this is field dependent but our next contract negogiation with our HC system should be interesting. They are hemorrhaging money (in part by paying techs outrageous locum's rates, I heard that a CT tech is making $150/hr) so they will likely with tight with money. However they going to have to continue if not up their subsidization if they want to maintain 24/7 radiological services. Guess we will see.

Both our fields are in a bit of a lurch at this point because so few groups can survive on clinical billing alone. So while the hospital’s labor headaches may not have concerned us in the past, many are now fighting for the same pieces of the pie that go to the nurses, techs, etc. I think it will require an adjustment in mindset to that of hourly employees to make this transition and protect income, but will the loss of professional autonomy be worth it?

Things like 24/7 radiology and anesthesia trauma coverage absolutely need to be subsidized and need to represent market rates.

 

[NicMouse64]

The sales pitch that Epic makes is that it will pay for itself by capturing more charges. Cancer centers are usually pitched as money makers too.

Epic is just better in general for inpatient work anyways.

 

[coffeebythelake]

Things like 24/7 radiology and anesthesia trauma coverage absolutely need to be subsidized and need to represent market rates.

The same can be said for most emergency departments

 

[2Fast2Des]

Epic is just better in general for inpatient work anyways.

I'm thankful for Epic here because now we can actually read legible notes instead of trying to decipher the squiggly lines on paper. I don't know how any billing person even codes those notes when it's all illegible. So I would imagine the money saved is from being able to actually bill level 5 if all the necessary things are noted. And for anesthesia I have everything on macros so it's great to make notes done very quickly with everything prefilled to what I want

 

[coffeebythelake]

Tentative deal reached and the strike is over

 

[coffeebythelake]

I'm thankful for Epic here because now we can actually read legible notes instead of trying to decipher the squiggly lines on paper. I don't know how any billing person even codes those notes when it's all illegible. So I would imagine the money saved is from being able to actually bill level 5 if all the necessary things are noted. And for anesthesia I have everything on macros so it's great to make notes done very quickly with everything prefilled to what I want

Yes I am also a fan of epic.
Their smart phone app is very useful

 

[anbuitachi]

We demand enforced ratios, right? Would you take a job where you could be supervising 3 rooms or 10 rooms on any given day? What happens if your employer said it’s been so busy that you sometimes have to flex to 1:6 or even 1:10 supervision ratios? Would you say “sure thing boss, anything for the company” or would you demand some cap on supervision ratios and ask for a raise?

There is some truth to their rhetoric that this is a patient safety issue, but the reality is when these nurses have high ratios, it’s a damn sh*tty job and probably no amount of money would make it worth it.

you cant compare physicians to nurses. our jobs are different. we are the ones liable not them. they can have 5 patients instead of 3, if theres a difficult IV? call MD. difficult patient? call MD. difficult anything? call MD. cant draw blood? call MD.

just put in note, MD aware. or write, MD paged, did not respond.

 

[anbuitachi]

Changes will never be made from inside the system, as there are simply too many incumbent interests to resist anything that may take away their oversized piece of the pie. But when the macroeconomics of the country and world no longer support the system then changes will happen regardless of any opposition.

As they say, you can ignore reality but you can’t ignore the consequences of ignoring reality. And when the can has been kicked this far down the road, there’s really only one outcome which is outright collapse.

The scenario I see playing out and the one that is actively playing out (and will continue to play out) is that hospitals will go under one by one until critical threshold is reached. As a whole healthcare can’t survive when overhead costs skyrocket because revenues are largely fixed. And with the higher interest rates a lot of these organizations can’t just dip into the capital markets at 1-2% rates to bail themselves out. The gov will have to step in and socialize it all.

this is what i tell everyone too. at this rate, hospitals will go under 1 at a time. im debating if its such a good idea to be contributing to my 457... dont know if hospital will be around in 30 years

but there is actually still a lot of room for them to cut physician pay. the public still think we are paid too much, and we have a lot of foreign trained doctors who are willing to work here. when critical threshold is reached, i imagine physician pay will already be around same as RN pay, but with way more responsibilities. many physicians also realize this and want out asap

 

[abolt18]

this is what i tell everyone too. at this rate, hospitals will go under 1 at a time. im debating if its such a good idea to be contributing to my 457... dont know if hospital will be around in 30 years

but there is actually still a lot of room for them to cut physician pay. the public still think we are paid too much, and we have a lot of foreign trained doctors who are willing to work here. when critical threshold is reached, i imagine physician pay will already be around same as RN pay, but with way more responsibilities. many physicians also realize this and want out asap

Is it a governmental 457?

 

[coffeebythelake]

this is what i tell everyone too. at this rate, hospitals will go under 1 at a time. im debating if its such a good idea to be contributing to my 457... dont know if hospital will be around in 30 years

but there is actually still a lot of room for them to cut physician pay. the public still think we are paid too much, and we have a lot of foreign trained doctors who are willing to work here. when critical threshold is reached, i imagine physician pay will already be around same as RN pay, but with way more responsibilities. many physicians also realize this and want out asap

Nurses getting paid more than some doctors already.

 

[anbuitachi]

There’s a disconnect though between that article and what others of us experience in our systems. I see admin just plop new people into new spots every year. They just create new positions. Systems get so large, and there appear to be so many buckets of money, that it gives an appearance of no one being overall accountable for what goes on. In my opinion it’s a system that desperately needs to change, and for that to occur it may mean the system failing.

What I see is physicians getting more and more burned out while a select few ‘providers’ get plopped into sweet admin gigs where all of the sudden they just ‘meeting’ all day and are now minimally caring for patients. Well guess what, now another physician has to be hired to take the now admin physicians role as the patients are still out there and need care. Effectively the system gained the expense of a new admin just so they can meeting all day and push around some blocks. But no additional income stream was added to that equation. It’s still the same number of patients being seen overall.

absolutely. there are so many admin positions its insane. every so often i see another email welcoming another chief _____ officer, and my reaction is like really, do we really need that. im sure they'll manage their own staff too since they are chief. i cant imagine how much we are spending on all that stuff while frontline staff are suffering and burning out.

it feels like everytime i ask for something, the response is ok lets set up a meeting. even for teh smallest things. they just cant do anything without meeting after meetings

 

[anbuitachi]

Is it a governmental 457?

no, employer 457

 

[dannyboy1]

Changes will never be made from inside the system, as there are simply too many incumbent interests to resist anything that may take away their oversized piece of the pie. But when the macroeconomics of the country and world no longer support the system then changes will happen regardless of any opposition.

As they say, you can ignore reality but you can’t ignore the consequences of ignoring reality. And when the can has been kicked this far down the road, there’s really only one outcome which is outright collapse.

The scenario I see playing out and the one that is actively playing out (and will continue to play out) is that hospitals will go under one by one until critical threshold is reached. As a whole healthcare can’t survive when overhead costs skyrocket because revenues are largely fixed. And with the higher interest rates a lot of these organizations can’t just dip into the capital markets at 1-2% rates to bail themselves out. The gov will have to step in and socialize it all.

Cute that you think a government bailout = socialization. Certainly didn’t happen in 2008 with Wall Street banks. Easiest thing to do is for the government to do the usual money printing and business will go on as usual.

 

[bronx43]

Cute that you think a government bailout = socialization. Certainly didn’t happen in 2008 with Wall Street banks. Easiest thing to do is for the government to do the usual money printing and business will go on as usual.

Cute that you think government will just hand hospitals a blank check when the democrats have been after single payer for decades. Healthcare is too big for the government to continuously fund, as it would require not just capitalizing the banking system with reserves.

 

[Hoya11]

absolutely. there are so many admin positions its insane. every so often i see another email welcoming another chief _____ officer, and my reaction is like really, do we really need that. im sure they'll manage their own staff too since they are chief. i cant imagine how much we are spending on all that stuff while frontline staff are suffering and burning out.

it feels like everytime i ask for something, the response is ok lets set up a meeting. even for teh smallest things. they just cant do anything without meeting after meetings

That’s not going to change but the salaries can. Business people are going to do business people things. Let’s just cap their salaries at 300k. No need for the Wall Street salaries in healthcare admin. Total waste of money , buys nothing, and creates hard feeling for those in the trenches with more education and altruism..

 

[chessknt]

no, employer 457

Yea those can be risky in terms of default and you can't roll them over so you can get your ass kicked on taxes if you leave before retirement age and have to ake it as a taxable lump sum.

 

[coffeebythelake]

Yea those can be risky in terms of default and you can't roll them over so you can get your ass kicked on taxes if you leave before retirement age and have to ake it as a taxable lump sum.

If u change job u can't just keep them with your employer?

 

[anbuitachi]

nothing gonna change w admin, until maybe doctors get crushed way more. because admins are teh ones who make the rules. and they arent going to put themselves in a position like that

 

[abolt18]

If u change job u can't just keep them with your employer?

No. Not a non-governmental 457. It is considered "deferred compensation" and so if you leave your employer you have to take that money as a distribution. Your specific plan will specify the terms of that distribution, but they could make you take it in a lump sum (ouch!) Or let you spread it out over 3, 5, and maybe even 10 years.

Alternatively, if you have a governmental 457 at "state school university", this can be rolled into most other retirement accounts.

Comparison of Tax-Exempt 457(b) Plans and Governmental 457(b) Plans | Internal Revenue Service

Comparison of Tax-Exempt 457(b) Plans and Governmental 457(b) Plans

www.irs.gov

 

[narcotics999]

this is what i tell everyone too. at this rate, hospitals will go under 1 at a time. im debating if its such a good idea to be contributing to my 457... dont know if hospital will be around in 30 years

but there is actually still a lot of room for them to cut physician pay. the public still think we are paid too much, and we have a lot of foreign trained doctors who are willing to work here. when critical threshold is reached, i imagine physician pay will already be around same as RN pay, but with way more responsibilities. many physicians also realize this and want out asap

Take a new job, transfer your 457 to IRA, 401k. Your job sucks anyway.

 

[anbuitachi]

Take a new job, transfer your 457 to IRA, 401k. Your job sucks anyway.

i have one of teh best jobs in the region apparently. not moving anytime soon =(

 

[GravelRider]

you cant compare physicians to nurses. our jobs are different. we are the ones liable not them. they can have 5 patients instead of 3, if theres a difficult IV? call MD. difficult patient? call MD. difficult anything? call MD. cant draw blood? call MD.

just put in note, MD aware. or write, MD paged, did not respond.

Tell that to the nurse charged with homicide for giving the wrong medication.

 

[anbuitachi]

Tell that to the nurse charged with homicide for giving the wrong medication.

thats a crime... not malpractice

 

[coffeebythelake]

No. Not a non-governmental 457. It is considered "deferred compensation" and so if you leave your employer you have to take that money as a distribution. Your specific plan will specify the terms of that distribution, but they could make you take it in a lump sum (ouch!) Or let you spread it out over 3, 5, and maybe even 10 years.

Alternatively, if you have a governmental 457 at "state school university", this can be rolled into most other retirement accounts.

Comparison of Tax-Exempt 457(b) Plans and Governmental 457(b) Plans | Internal Revenue Service

Comparison of Tax-Exempt 457(b) Plans and Governmental 457(b) Plans

www.irs.gov

Damn I need to look into it more. If I end up leaving my workplace maybe I do it at the beginning of the year and then take a nice vacation so I don't make too much income that year and be taxed to death

 

[abolt18]

Take a new job, transfer your 457 to IRA, 401k. Your job sucks anyway.

He can't. It's a non-governmental 457. Cannot transfer/rollover. Requires distribution of the entire thing upon leaving the employer (as above, potentially immediate or drawn out over x amount of years).

 

[vm26]

Both our fields are in a bit of a lurch at this point because so few groups can survive on clinical billing alone. So while the hospital’s labor headaches may not have concerned us in the past, many are now fighting for the same pieces of the pie that go to the nurses, techs, etc. I think it will require an adjustment in mindset to that of hourly employees to make this transition and protect income, but will the loss of professional autonomy be worth it?

Things like 24/7 radiology and anesthesia trauma coverage absolutely need to be subsidized and need to represent market rates.

The current PP model for radiology is that groups keep the pro-fee and hospitals take the much higher tech-fee since they own the scanners. There has been a trend for more subsidization for call coverage, particularly for IR after hour coverage. Pro-fee alone for radiology has worked in the past (though variable based on payor-mix), however given rad shortage and competition against PE (who have been forced to offer exceedingly high starting compensation in order to recruit), more and more groups are going to ask for higher subsidization from hospitals to remain competitive for recruiting/retainment. Who knows what happens if/when hospitals balk. Any semi-competent diagnostic rad can get a decent job in a day or two doing 100% tele work without moving. Recruiting IR/breast imager (boots on the ground) is also going to be extremely expensive. It's going to get messy.

 

[kb1900]

Nurses getting paid more than some doctors already.

some? MSH starting salary prior to the strike for 3x12s for nurses is 114700. They have negotiated a compounding 19.1% compounding raise for a net gain of 51k over 3 years. So...we're talking 160k for 3x12s. Lets not forget the OT and benefits.

edit: spelling

 

[coffeebythelake]

some? MSH starting salary prior to the strike for 3x12s for nurses is 114700. They have negotiated a compounding 19.1% yearly raise for a net gain of 51k over 3 years. So...we're talking 160k for 3x12s. Lets not forget the OT and benefits.

This is the stuff that should be on the news.
Not the b.s. nursing propaganda that "nurses live in poverty", that "doctors are rich" and "nurses care for the whole patient while doctors only care about the disease"

 

[kb1900]

This is the stuff that should be on the news.
Not the b.s. nursing propaganda that "nurses live in poverty", that "doctors are rich" and "nurses care for the whole patient while doctors only care about the disease"

Going to go on a rant here…


Not a single piece of news covering the strike mentioned the compensation base or hours worked by nurses. The entire week, residents and attendings picked up the pieces. Most travelers who were hired in anticipation didn’t show up Monday “in solidarity”. Also what was with the CRNAs and NPs also striking..


And after completing intern year doing up to 60-70% of labs, transporting patients, so so many lines, most vent management including routine care like suctioning, skin checks, wound care, all family questions etc. etc. while the nurses incessantly paged about non-issues and nonstop charted, “md aware” from the break room I’m pretty salty.


In all honesty, a pay raise and better staffing of ancillary staff like transporters, PCAs, respiratory techs would have probably improved things more than what was negotiated from the nursing strike.


It took a lot for me to not tell the reporters about my endless accounts of nurses putting the patient last. I’ll never forget my first code where I got someone to start compressions and no one knew where the code cart was and I got hit with “it’s not my patient” from one of the nurses in the break room 5 feet from the coding patient. I mean literally Monday morning this week they dipped out of our ICUs at 5am (report for them is at 7) while patients were on ECMO, CVVH etc. how the f is that not patient abandonment??


Having said that I stood by the nurses in the strike because the ratios are absolutely cruel, have been a known and ongoing isssue for over 10 years and only contributed to work being dumped on residents. And I will say our PACU, OR, ICU, and ED a nurses are a cut above the rest by a massive margin. The floor nurses are basura though and the hospital is greed asf. Would refuse to go on divert while we board 100+ in our ED and resus with no beds available upstairs. Nurses 1:20 down there. Daily we’d get emails from leadership saying to “work on discharges and barriers to discharge etc.” Countless times I went to find my new admit on medicine in the corner of the ED, no mental status, no IV, no labs for 24 hours, no monitors stuffed away in a corner. I regularly had a patient or two on vasopressors and an unprotected waiting-to-aspirate airway on the step down unit or floor. I’m not ashamed to say I snuck in purple stuff when I could. Some of this crap was traumatic as hell.


I tell all of this **** to any MS4 who looks to do residency in the city. You become self sufficient as hell and everyone who graduates from my program tells us that their first job is a relative cake walk (to a degree obviously, but everything is so much easier when you’re not fighting an entire system) but this comes at a heavy heavy cost. Every day I thank god I survived intern year and am now more than half way to leaving this place.

 

[abolt18]

Going to go on a rant here…


Not a single piece of news covering the strike mentioned the compensation base or hours worked by nurses. The entire week, residents and attendings picked up the pieces. Most travelers who were hired in anticipation didn’t show up Monday “in solidarity”. Also what was with the CRNAs and NPs also striking..


And after completing intern year doing up to 60-70% of labs, transporting patients, so so many lines, most vent management including routine care like suctioning, skin checks, wound care, all family questions etc. etc. while the nurses incessantly paged about non-issues and nonstop charted, “md aware” from the break room I’m pretty salty.


In all honesty, a pay raise and better staffing of ancillary staff like transporters, PCAs, respiratory techs would have probably improved things more than what was negotiated from the nursing strike.


It took a lot for me to not tell the reporters about my endless accounts of nurses putting the patient last. I’ll never forget my first code where I got someone to start compressions and no one knew where the code cart was and I got hit with “it’s not my patient” from one of the nurses in the break room 5 feet from the coding patient. I mean literally Monday morning this week they dipped out of our ICUs at 5am (report for them is at 7) while patients were on ECMO, CVVH etc. how the f is that not patient abandonment??


Having said that I stood by the nurses in the strike because the ratios are absolutely cruel, have been a known and ongoing isssue for over 10 years and only contributed to work being dumped on residents. And I will say our PACU, OR, ICU, and ED a nurses are a cut above the rest by a massive margin. The floor nurses are basura though and the hospital is greed asf. Would refuse to go on divert while we board 100+ in our ED and resus with no beds available upstairs. Nurses 1:20 down there. Daily we’d get emails from leadership saying to “work on discharges and barriers to discharge etc.” Countless times I went to find my new admit on medicine in the corner of the ED, no mental status, no IV, no labs for 24 hours, no monitors stuffed away in a corner. I regularly had a patient or two on vasopressors and an unprotected waiting-to-aspirate airway on the step down unit or floor. I’m not ashamed to say I snuck in purple stuff when I could. Some of this crap was traumatic as hell.


I tell all of this **** to any MS4 who looks to do residency in the city. You become self sufficient as hell and everyone who graduates from my program tells us that their first job is a relative cake walk (to a degree obviously, but everything is so much easier when you’re not fighting an entire system) but this comes at a heavy heavy cost. Every day I thank god I survived intern year and am now more than half way to leaving this place.

Purple stuff?

 

[Dawkter]

Blows my mind given how little ny nurses have to do. I wonder if the rest of the country knows they don't have to do difficult IVs, blood draws, NG tubes, remove lines/hold pressure, or transport patients anywhere. And god forbid the CNA is busy, they'd let a patient with a balloon pump and fem cordis sit in their own sh|t for 6 hrs.

This. NYC unionized nursing makes practicing there totally unsustainable. Most hospitals in NYC are a revolving door for physicians unless they have extremely strong ties holding them to that area.

 

[kidthor]

The entire week, residents and attendings picked up the pieces.

Unfortunately this is also part of the problem. The physicians should have refused to take on any nursing work (because it’s simply not their job) and forced the hospital to figure it out. Sadly physicians end up taking on extra work for free way too often. The nurses don’t, without eventually complaining or striking.

The nurses are much, much, MUCH better at organized bargaining. I don’t begrudge their tactics one bit personally.

 

[coffeebythelake]

The nurses are much, much, MUCH better at organized bargaining. I don’t begrudge their tactics one bit personally.

Nurses have strength in numbers and decades of finely crafted propaganda to push their $$$ agenda

 

[MirrorTodd]

Unfortunately this is also part of the problem. The physicians should have refused to take on any nursing work (because it’s simply not their job) and forced the hospital to figure it out. Sadly physicians end up taking on extra work for free way too often. The nurses don’t, without eventually complaining or striking.

The nurses are much, much, MUCH better at organized bargaining. I don’t begrudge their tactics one bit personally.

Or proved that a **** load of nursing work is utterly superfluous to what the patient actually needs.

 

[GassYous]

Or proved that a **** load of nursing work is utterly superfluous to what the patient actually needs.

As far as I can tell, 90% of their time is spent documenting bull**** no one looks at or cares about.

I remember a nurse on the ob floor who wouldn't get a pump or do anything useful but would sit at her computer station right outside the patient room and write 100 notes a shift. Every 2-3 minutes "patient passed flatus." "Obstetrician entered room to talk to patient for 2.5 minutes." "Patient requested a blanket because she is cold." It was insane.

 

[kb1900]

Purple stuff?

guess this is institution dependent but all our pressor labels are purple

 

[GravelRider]

thats a crime... not malpractice

Saying nurses have no liability is incorrect. It is also a false equivalency to compare a floor nurse’s situation to a physician’s situation. The fact that they make more money than you on an hourly basis is a you problem. If you feel like you are being unfairly compensated then you need to do something about it for yourself.

 

[anbuitachi]

Saying nurses have no liability is incorrect. It is also a false equivalency to compare a floor nurse’s situation to a physician’s situation. The fact that they make more money than you on an hourly basis is a you problem. If you feel like you are being unfairly compensated then you need to do something about it for yourself.

theres no need to pick over such tiny details. clearly i dont mean they have zero liability in life. if they use a knife and starts stabbing of course they have legal liability. do i really need to point this out

 

[anbuitachi]

Yeah, every physician here knows that in reality, the nurses in NYC are paid well for what is a fairly low to average skilled, albeit stressful job.

We're talking about a job with 100k+ starting pay, full health benefits at excellent healthcare systems, extremely flexible scheduling with massive overtime possibilities, that can be done with an associates degree (and pretty average grades) that can be earned in less than 3 years.

It's utterly shocking to me that culturally we have decided that nursing is "women's work" or somehow not meaningful, when so many people I know complain about not being able to get jobs in their fields doing accounting, sales, or whatever other BS. Getting an associates degree in nursing for almost nothing and working for over 100k and full benefits is a dream most people wish they could achieve in NYC, and yet many people who are struggling to find work aren't doing it. Something like 90% of nurses are women, and I know a ton of men whose chosen professions are not nearly as lucrative or respected in society, and these kind of people won't do nursing because of the stigma.

I get that the job is very stressful, patients are mean/impossible to deal with a lot, and expectations for documentation are absolutely out of control, but with minimal input you come out with infinite flexibility, a 3 day work week with overtime opportunity, and several options for higher level training if you get tired of it. I hate to be offensive to nurses, but what more is it that any given person could be looking for in a job that requires so little time investment to get? It pays those numbers because it is stressful, not for any other reason like skill or training difficulty.

I'd argue that working somewhere like on an oil rig or in a toxic materials processing job is much more stressful, and doesn't pay nearly as well, but we don't see them threatening to strike all the time. Just confuses me.

yea thats why i find it stupid that even though hospitals have chief diversity officers and equity departments. i have never seen them promoting or trying to hire men over women in nursing jobs. theres zero attempt to reach 50 50 or even anywhere close to it for nursing

 

[anbuitachi]

Unfortunately this is also part of the problem. The physicians should have refused to take on any nursing work (because it’s simply not their job) and forced the hospital to figure it out. Sadly physicians end up taking on extra work for free way too often. The nurses don’t, without eventually complaining or striking.

The nurses are much, much, MUCH better at organized bargaining. I don’t begrudge their tactics one bit personally.

physicians definitely suck at bargaining but that would not go well in court for the physician. nurses are taught to escalate when needed, so to them that means anything they cant do , they tell MD, who now is apparently responsible.

 

[anbuitachi]

Not mount sinai but probably sinais deal is similar. Looks amazing. 3 year deal. next strike will be 2025.

 

[GassYous]

As far as I can tell, 90% of their time is spent documenting bull**** no one looks at or cares about.

I remember a nurse on the ob floor who wouldn't get a pump or do anything useful but would sit at her computer station right outside the patient room and write 100 notes a shift. Every 2-3 minutes "patient passed flatus." "Obstetrician entered room to talk to patient for 2.5 minutes." "Patient requested a blanket because she is cold." It was insane.

Sent a patient to the ED recently. 5 nursing notes in 2 hours. "Tolerated ice chips." "Requesting water." "Wife is now going home." "Patient requesting jello."

???

 

[GravelRider]

theres no need to pick over such tiny details. clearly i dont mean they have zero liability in life. if they use a knife and starts stabbing of course they have legal liability. do i really need to point this out

What are you even talking about? Stabbing? Your reasoning for nurses to not fight for lower patient ratios is either a.) they have no liability, so they should stfu or b.) they make more money than you per hour. The first is not true and the second is a problem with you, not them.

 

[anbuitachi]

What are you even talking about? Stabbing? Your reasoning for nurses to not fight for lower patient ratios is either a.) they have no liability, so they should stfu or b.) they make more money than you per hour. The first is not true and the second is a problem with you, not them.

dood you are making stuff up. i have never said those things. its public. go read my post. you are the one saying our ratios are the same as nursing ratios. im just disagreeing . its different on MANY levels. billing, mandating. whatever.

also i have broken ratios for emergencies.