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8 spots for 2007 or 2008?

Discussion in 'Radiation Oncology' started by CNphair, Mar 12, 2007.

  1. CNphair

    CNphair Senior Member
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    Congrats to everyone! I think I was a little intoxicated this time last year...enjoy match day!

    Am also stunned at 8 spots not being filled...that has to be a record in recent years.
     
  2. MIKECALIMD

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    Do you guys know where these unfiiled spots are?
    name of programs?
    thanks!


     
  3. mp2006

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    okay..maybe not for 2007...but 2008...that would be good news...
     
  4. Roche

    Roche New Member
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    why would spots for 2007 PGY-2 positions be available now in the scramble? Are you sure these arn't categorical 2007 spots.
     
  5. MIKECALIMD

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    I am sure it's for PGY-2 in 2008. Does anyone know which programs have these unfilled spots? Or will we not find out until tomorrow?
    Thanks.



     
  6. Adawaal

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    I just took a look at the Rad Onc figures. There are indeed 8 unfilled spots (PGY-2 for 2008). The NRMP breaks the country down into four distinct geographic regions, and you can find the map on their website. Unfilled Rad Onc spots from each region this year:

    North/Midwest - 0

    West - 1

    South - 3

    East/New England - 4

    Total - 8
     
  7. blueMD

    blueMD Junior Member
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    i cant believe this many unmatched spots...
    has there been this many before?
    and do you know which programs?
     
  8. Adawaal

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    Oh, and because I didn't care I didn't look too closely, but I do think I remember seeing 1 or 2 categorical spots that went unfilled as well.
     
  9. gas2007

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    Are you sure these spots are not programs that were listed on ERAS, but were not taking positions this year? I know Allegheny, UPITT, EVM, South Carolina were all listed and apparently not taking applicants for 2008.
     
  10. Adawaal

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    Could be, gas. I seem to recall one of the "unfilled" positions being a nonexistent one at Wake a few years back. Hopefully they're real for those who didn't match. Hate to be those programs who have to go through the hell of weeding through dozens of CVs and refilling fax machine toner tomorrow though.... *ugh*
     
  11. phil the thrill

    phil the thrill Veteran
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    I believe, respectively, that you are completely wrong on this one. 8 pgy-2 spots did not fill. All these spots should be available for the scramble unless a program decides not to take someone and take an extra one next year which some may do.

    Its unbelievable that in a specialty as competitive as rad onc that that many spots can go unfilled. I think the reason this happened was because programs were all interviewing the same group of applicants. I know many applicants who went on 15+ interviews. If someone has that many interviews odds are they are a strong candidate and will match high on their list. If a malignant or not as well known program only interviews the best applicants then they may not fill. It will be interesting to see which programs these were.
     
  12. mp2006

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    yeah, I think you are right...my school called the nrmp and confirmed it, there are 8 unfilled positions for 2008...my bad...now the question is this? will the scramble be harder to get a spot than the regular match??? How are programs going to choose people...no interview or anything?!
     
  13. Soze

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    My understanding is that the statistics provided by the NRMP are based on programs participating in the match, and therefore would not include the programs you have listed.

    Regardless, we'll see who's not filled tomorrow at noon.
     
  14. stephew

    stephew SDN Super Moderator
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    my guess is programs didn't rank low enough on their list. we'll see who is was soon enough.
    there were more than enough applciants.
     
  15. Adawaal

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    Every program handles this a little differently, but it does tend to be a bit like the Wild West. The key is to be in your Dean's office plenty early before contacts to unfilled programs are allowed to be made. Make sure you have everything in hand: CV, Dean's letter, LORs, grades, USMLE scores, etc. The faxes start humming along for a couple hours after contacts can be made. You should probably clear out your afternoon, as PDs who have unfilled spots may want to talk to you that day. I don't know about Rad Onc, but in other specialties offers are made via the phone that afternoon. If the Rad Onc PD or Chair at your school likes you, you may be able to have them make calls on your behalf.

    Best of luck snagging one of these spots for those of you in the running!
     
  16. SimulD

    SimulD Senior Member
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    Do not let your phone calls go like this (a recap of my misery):

    SadSimul: "Hello, my name is SadSimul. I did not match in internship/radiation oncology and I see you have an unfilled position. I would like to be considered for that position."

    HappySecretary: "Sorry for your luck. Just fax everything over and also re-submit on ERAS, and we'll be in touch."

    Then SadSimul waits for hours ... to no avail ...

    I'd suggest you be extremely assertive in trying to talk to a program director or have your advisor do it for you. You've already spent $5,000 and your dignity this fall/winter, don't worry about sounding desperate - you are. This is your career, fight a little bit. Don't let the secretary leave you hanging with "send the papers over, and we'll call you". I couldn't even get a prelim spot until my dean took over and started calling people. He got me a spot without me even talking to that program.

    Congrats to everyone else!
    -S
     
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  17. carrigallen

    carrigallen 16th centry dutch painter
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    I would hate to be standing next to one of their fax machines right now..you would be floundering in paper in about 5 minutes! :D
     
  18. Adawaal

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    I can only imagine the pain. It's days like this that PDs really earn their worth!
     
  19. gas2007

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    Most of the PD probably did this to themselves by not ranking enough folks, so I dont feel sorry for them at all.

    good luck scramblers, go get them.
     
  20. RLMD

    RLMD blah
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    So, anyone know which programs didnt fill? Just curious.
     
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  21. MIKECALIMD

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    i believe kaiser in LA... not sure about any other programs...
     
  22. RLMD

    RLMD blah
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    Interesting. Well, I guess I matched at one of my top 8 then, since I ranked them #9. :)
     
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  23. CaptainXRT

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    Do you think PDs routinely omit people they interviewed from the rank list, or just the REALLY repulsively obnoxious ones? (in other words, is it safe to assume you've matched above one that didn't fill). I didn't think I was THAT obnoxious :p
     
  24. Stanky

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    Anyone know of any other programs besides Kaiser that didn't fill? 4 in the NE and 3 in the SE. Should be interesting. Congrats everybody. I was pulling for you Napolean.
     
  25. irfanmd1

    irfanmd1 Junior Member
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    I didn't match., and so far no luck with the scramble either.:( Will try again this year, with more focus on research.

    The NRMp listed 8 unfilled positions in 5 places. However, two of the places which I contacted said that they didn't have aposition at all, and it was an error by the NRMP!!

    Unfilled
    1. Kaiser Permanente-So CA region 1

    2. Einstein/ Montefiore med ctr- NY 1

    3. SUNY upstate med university 2 (they said they never had positions)

    4. Allegheny Gen Hospital 1 (again a mistake by nrmp - no positions)

    5. Virginia commonwealth U Hlth System 3 (yes, three!)

    Thus a total of 8, in reality there were 5 true unfilled positions.

    Hope this helps get a better idea.

    -Irfan
     
  26. RLMD

    RLMD blah
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    VCU had 3 unfilled positions? Thats crazy. Did they rank anyone at all? They must have forgotten to certify their list on time or something
     
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  27. napoleondynamite

    napoleondynamite Keepin' it real yo
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    The rumor I heard about VCU (again-this is rumor, so I hesitate to say it but I will to generate discussion) is that the interviewees at that school were all strongly encouraged NOT to even rank the program by a group of very unhappy residents at the dinner part of the interview day.

    Perhaps someone who actually interviewed there could confirm if this is true.
     
  28. phil the thrill

    phil the thrill Veteran
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    Yes Napoleon its true. There were two residents one female one male who basically told everyone not to go there. I personally liked the program a lot and feel like they offer excellent clinical training, have good research opportunites, and some well respected attendings. My feelings about these residents was that they were simply unhappy people and probably would have said bad things about any program they were at. I also heard there was an incident between one of the attendings and a female resident that is very hush hush but led to a lot of this negativity. I personally feel bad for them that they did not fill. I liked their PD a lot and most of the faculty seemed like nice people to work with. They had good facilities and Richmond is not the worst place to live. Hopefully they found some good residents in the scramble. They are the best program which did not fill and should be able to find some highly qualified candidates amongst the unlucky ones who did not match. So if you are a scrambler I would try to go there. I think in the end you will be glad you did.
     
  29. mp2006

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    so today in the scramble was crazy...basically you called the places and they took your name and number and said they would call you back. They took VCU off of the NRMP website pretty early even though I heard they have not made a decision and would take a few days because they have so many applicants (I heard rumored between 50-70 today)...will see. So I wonder how many people tried to scramble there today that had previously interviewed there?

    scramble is not pleasant...unfortunately I did my rol wrong and did not rank prelims separately (guess that certifies me as crazy)...still beating myself up over that one...I still don't have a prelim spot...may have to do a categorical for a year, anyway...be glad if you are not in this position.

    Did anyone get a scramble spot today for rad onc?!
    mp
     
  30. Adawaal

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    OMG! I can understand why one would not rank a program because of hearing lots of bad things about it; I did the same thing. That being said.... Can you imagine how a PD will look at an applicant who interviewed there and didn't rank it (essentially saying, "I'd rather not match than go to VCU!"), now calling up and asking to scramble into that position? :laugh:

    There are so many good people who didn't match, if I were the PD, I'd politely tell those who didn't rank my program after interviewing where they can stuff their career intentions. :eek:
     
  31. Wakemonkey

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    I can only relay my experience, but I foundout monday that I did match into the feild of radiation oncology. I ranked VCU number one, so when I read that VCU didn't match anybody, and I confirmed that to be the case, it tells me that VCU didn't even rank me at all. How arrogant have these PD become these days. All I have to say is that it serves them right. Now I'm just going to have to cross my fingers and hope my number two program, UCSF works out for me.

    LOL
     
  32. XRTmonster

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    I think it was more a function of VCU not ranking enough applicants than the other way around and ended up with the match equivalent of the golden sombrero. Anyone know how many they interviewed for 3 spots?

    I mean its more than likely that most of the applicants scrambling right now did not have many interviews-probably less then 10. Can't imagine why one with a few precious interviews would not rank a program. I think its unlikely. Methinks this is all on VCU.
     
  33. stephew

    stephew SDN Super Moderator
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    folks, vulgar langauge isnt permitted. please keep it clean.after all, youre a radiation oncologist now.
     
  34. napoleondynamite

    napoleondynamite Keepin' it real yo
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    But why on Earth would VCU choose to not rank anyone with THREE open spots? Are they the mysterious "imploding program" referred to by a resident in another thread?

    BTW - what gripes did the unhappy residents have about the place..? I realize some programs are better than others, some more malignant than others..but I just can't fathom ANY radonc program being completely miserable.
     
  35. Thaiger75

    Thaiger75 Senior Member
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    How would a program know which programs you ranked and which you didn't? I would say the majority of the people that are scrambling for VCU did not interview or was not ranked by them.
     
  36. Thaiger75

    Thaiger75 Senior Member
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    I think unfilled spots are a product of 2 things.

    1. Not ranking enough candidates
    2. Interviewing too many candidates that are "out of their league" that most likely will match elsewhere. If you're a middle tier program, you can't be interviewing just people with MD/PhD and all-star candidates. Just like applicants who have "back-up" programs, programs should do the same. I've seen it many times.

    These 2 go hand in hand
     
  37. stephew

    stephew SDN Super Moderator
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    are you confusing it with MCV? i thought you ranked mcv number one.
     
  38. nod

    nod Nod
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    I do not recall which is the newer name and which is the older (I think VCU is the now correct name), but they are one and the same.
     
  39. Adawaal

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    I have no doubt that's the case. However, if they didn't match anyone (!), and if it's true that many interviewees did not rank VCU b/c of what the residents told them, there will likely be applicants who (1) did not match in Rad Onc, (2) interviewed at VCU, (3) did not rank VCU, (4) were indeed on the VCU ROL, and (5) still need a position. I was simply commenting that it would take some massive cojones to not rank VCU then try to scramble there.
     
  40. achybrachy

    achybrachy DysMember
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    My question as one of the applicants for next year is what are the implications of this whole scramble snafu for my application? Do you think VCU in particular will learn from all this and be more likely to interview me? Should I be more wary of going there? I can think of arguments both ways.
     
  41. stephew

    stephew SDN Super Moderator
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    my bad.
     
  42. phil the thrill

    phil the thrill Veteran
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    That is completely ridiculous. They completely messed up their match and are paying for it now. I wonder if they ranked me either?
     
  43. Doctor&Geek

    Doctor&Geek 25 > 5 / 15 < 8
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    Some program forgot to turn in their rank list.:eek: :D
     
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  44. 3dtp

    3dtp Senior Member
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    Or a third: Deliberately not ranking enough to avoid the match, reserving the spot for someone else of their chosing. That way, you don't violate the match when you sign the guy you really wanted outside the match.

     
  45. SimulD

    SimulD Senior Member
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    Good point. That's evil, man.
    -S
     
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  46. Roche

    Roche New Member
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    With the competitive state of Rad Onc today, I don't think any program would chose to go this route. Several people on this forum have admitted to only interviewing at their home institution, either by choice or due to lack of interviews and still matching. If a programs wants you, they interview you and rank you high enough to match. It's that simple.
     
  47. mp2006

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    fyi- got an e-mail from albert e. saying they decided not to fill the position this year...
     
  48. napoleondynamite

    napoleondynamite Keepin' it real yo
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    Just curious if anyone knows of ANYBODY who has had luck scrambling into one of the 8 unfilled spots?? Sounds like the number of available spots was really lower than 8:

    -Albert Einstein decided not to fill this year lowering it to 7
    -I hear (rumor mill here) that Kaiser was actually an error with the match b/c they ranked a candidate #1 who also ranked them #1 but somehow it screwed up..anyway, word I heard is that they immediately took that person, lowering the number to 6
    -VCU, intentional or unintentional not to fill? Are they going to fill these spots in 08?
     
  49. blueMD

    blueMD Junior Member
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    thats crazy.. my sympathies to those who didn't match
    has anyone heard if anyone scrambled into VCU?
     
  50. Impressions

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    I received a phone call from VCU the day after the scramble, the PD stated they would make a decision within about two weeks regarding the open positions.
     

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