80+ hour salary

[biophysics]

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I'm currently between 1st/2nd year of med school. Psych is the specialty I'm interested in and I don't see this changing through med school too much.

Money however is a concern with my student loans and family situation.

1) when salary surveys such as http://www.cejkasearch.com/compensation/amga_physician_compensation_survey.htm
list salaries, are these take home salaries? or is this before malpractice, taxes etc.

2) There are examples of psychs making 500k/1milliion. mostly in NYC.
I'm willing to put in neurosurgery hours but I believe this should only be done in a field one enjoys. How realistic is it to make 500k+ in psych if one works 80+ hours. is it realistic to simple increase the salary proportionally from 50 hours to 80 hours

3) I would like to ask the same question (salary after 80+ hours) for opthalmology and ER as these also interest me.

cheers, your replies are appreciated🙂

 

[abcxyz0123]

who do you know that makes 500k-1million?

 

[kugel]

An acquaintance working for a private group in Long Beach, CA is making at least $500k/yr net (probably more) doing primarily inpt psych. He works probably 60hrs/wk and takes off an avg of 1 week q 2 months. "work hard and play hard" I'm sure he could make more if he wasn't so committed to excellent patient care.

Public (government) Psych ER/ Inpt in southern CA can expect $150k-250k / yr with decent benefits and no overhead. Outpatient, a bit less, but straight 40 hrs/week.

Hope that helps some.

 

[whopper]

I recently landed a moonlighting gig for fellowship that pays a decent amount. The pay is to the point where if I did work 80 hrs/week, I would earn about $475K/year. On top of that, its in the Cincinnati area where the cost of living is about 1/2 of that in NYC.

I of course will not work those many hours because I will be doing fellowship, but its certainly a place to consider after fellowship ends.

 

[abcxyz0123]

I recently landed a moonlighting gig for fellowship that pays a decent amount. The pay is to the point where if I did work 80 hrs/week, I would earn about $475K/year. On top of that, its in the Cincinnati area where the cost of living is about 1/2 of that in NYC.

I of course will not work those many hours because I will be doing fellowship, but its certainly a place to consider after fellowship ends.

The amount you get for moonlighting right now; do they pay you an attending level moonlighting wage (since i assume u completed 4 years of psych residency and could have been an attending right now)...or is it the same wage that u get moonlighting as a resident?

If the moonlighting wage is an attending level wage...how comparable is it to attending level salaries? Pretty much the same, except they go by the hour? Or do they pay u alot less per hour than they would have if u were a full time attending, since u are in a fellowship?

I hope all of this made sense.

 

[whopper]

The amount you get for moonlighting right now; do they pay you an attending level moonlighting wage (since i assume u completed 4 years of psych residency and could have been an attending right now)...or is it the same wage that u get moonlighting as a resident?

If I worked as a full time attending at that place, I'd get paid the same wage--$115/hr.

If the moonlighting wage is an attending level wage...how comparable is it to attending level salaries? Pretty much the same, except they go by the hour? Or do they pay u alot less per hour than they would have if u were a full time attending, since u are in a fellowship?
I hope all of this made sense.

Yep--several places will pay attendings & resident moonlighters the same, although some will differ. It depends on the place.

Not directly linked to the issue, but IMHO, going for the moolah immediately is not a good thing. I mentioned this in a few other posts, but I just wrapped up my last day today in a state run facility. The salary was lower than several other jobs that I could've taken, however I think I've gained several things I could not in other areas.

The best psychiatrists I've seen didn't go for the money as if it was the sole end of the deal. They stayed associated with an institution of learning, kept on top of their journal reading, did a few jobs (not just 1) so they could learn the ins & outs of that job. By the time they've done a few, they had a much broader view of psychiatry.

I could've taken a few jobs that paid higher than my last job, but I felt I learned so much more on that last one than I would've on the others. I can honestly say that I've had some cases far more challenging than some of my teachers in residency ever had. I remember asking some of the attendings--"what would you do if you were in this situation", and I'd get a -hope & pray- type answer. I've been in those undesirable situation several times so far, and came out alright--thanks to being in an institution where my superiors were willing to guide me.

(that is with full & complete acknowledgement that this last job was extremely difficult, and I would not choose to work at it long term.)

If you really want to rake in the moolah, practice in an extremely underserved state & have a suboxone clinic. If you did that right out of residency, I don't know how good of a psychiatrist you will be. Trust me, there's plenty to learn even after residency. You may possibly master the cases you'd see in your residency, but psychiatry is much more than just 1 location. Different areas, and different clinical settings bring in far different types of cases. Open up your private practice immediately, & I bet you'll get a tough case you won't know how to hanlde, and you might not have much support.

IMHO, balancing your training goals in addition to monetary will lead to greater long term success, even if you calculate that on a monetary scale.

 

[Faebinder]

Agree with Whopper. You can make $450k a year... but you will have to put about 80 hours of work a week. How long are you going to maintain that?

 

[panthera]

These are the 10 highest-paid psychologists and psychiatrists hired by the state to evaluate sex offenders in 2007:

Robert Owen, Central Coast, $1,540,225

Dawn Starr, Central Coast $1,153,057

Mohan Nair, Beverly Hills, $977,384


Jeremy Coles, Bay Area, $891,790

Shoba Sreenivasan, Los Angeles, $877,567

Michael Musacco, Bakersfield, $803,716

Mark Schwartz, Orange County, $748,517

Mark Miculian, Central Valley, $677,225

Craig Updegrove, Central Coast, $666,251

Nancy Rueschenberg, Central Coast, $658,265

*Includes payment for services and reimbursement for expenses

Source: California Department of Mental Health.

 

[scottresident]

wow, I want one of those jobs. how did you find these information?

 

[abcxyz0123]

those salaries were just an anomaly. They were due to Jessica's Law, which passed in california and some other states in around 2006, which made the states file an influx of sex offender evaluations for thousands each, which made these guys rich during that time this survey was put out. They are in the process of revising the laws and revising the amount they are going to pay out for these evals though. A lot of them are PhD's (i looked up the names) who just did a ton of these evals, not md's.

 

[whopper]

Factor in that this is California, where psychiatrists make tons more money than in other states (accompanied by an extremely higher cost of living). Factor that California's current economic status may cause paycuts to those being employed by the state. Psychiatrists there in the past few years enjoyed a dramatic pay increase, and I don't know what the status is with that & the current CA fiscal situation.

Also factor in that as mentioned above, these are psychologists not psychiatrists. Top forensic psychologists can make quite a bit of $$$.

 

[kugel]

In CA, things like Jessica's law and several big lawsuits involving prisoners forced the state to hire a lot more psychiatrists for prisons and state hospitals, and that drove up the salaries in the public sector (didn't affect $ in private much). The economic crisis here has forced the state and counties to cut back, in the form of things like reducing holidays or other compensation. In Riverside county ALL county managers (and that, by definition, includes all psychiatrists for some reason) are getting a 10% pay cut. State hosp psychiatrists are apparently getting some forced furlough days, just like DMV employees. Still, state hosp psychiatrists are in the range of $350k/yr for salary + benefits.

 

[panthera]

Also factor in that as mentioned above, these are psychologists not psychiatrists. Top forensic psychologists can make quite a bit of $$$.

Does the government & laywers seek forensic psychologist more than psychiatrist?

 

[panthera]

wow, I want one of those jobs. how did you find these information?

http://www.latimes.com/news/la-me-jessicatop10-link,2,5848837.story

 

[masterofmonkeys]

If you're interested in pulling down 400k plus I think there are probably smarter ways to go about it. Just pulling something out of my butt, but its a great time to get into rental properties if you're smart about it. And I think that'll be true for another couple years.

As Uncle Scrooge remarked, work smarter, not harder.

 

[billypilgrim37]

As Uncle Scrooge remarked, work smarter, not harder.

Should you really take financial advice from someone who kept hiring Launchpad McQuack despite sky-rocketing comprehensive insurance rates?

 

[OldPsychDoc]

Should you really take financial advice from someone who kept hiring Launchpad McQuack despite sky-rocketing comprehensive insurance rates?

...to say nothing of his refusal to wear pants around the office.

 

[masterofmonkeys]

We are talking about a duck who managed to become a multi-trillionaire. A duck. Coming from that level of a disadvantaged background, to do what he did, he's allowed to be eccentric.

 

[billypilgrim37]

A duck. Coming from that level of a disadvantaged background, to do what he did, he's allowed to be eccentric.

Two words.

Lucky dime.

 

[DocHolliday21]

Hahahahahahaha

 

[whopper]

Don't mess with McDuck.

This is coming from a fan of the original comics, and the show (well the first few seasons, the last few were terrible).

Does the government & laywers seek forensic psychologist more than psychiatrist?

As of this point I really don't know despite my year as a forensic attending, and starting forensic fellowship.

I can tell you that both can do some of the same things (evaluations, Not Guilty By Reason of Insanity Reports, diagnosis), but other things clearly one field should predominate over the other.


Forensic psychiatrists should be handling the psychotropic treatment of people in a forensic facility. They should also be called in as expert witnesses when it comes to issues where the medical/psychiatric aspects are called into play (e.g. blood alcohol levels, medications etc).

Forensic psychologists are better suited for psychometric testing such as the MMPI, SIRS, TOMMS to weed out malingerers, or with neuropsychological testing E.g. a Halstead Reitan Battery on those who have traumatic brain injury.

rental properties if you're smart about it

Instead of Renting, perhaps a REIT? A Real Estate Investment Trust? This way you get the profits from a good renting market, but you don't have to be a landlord, and dealing with some scumbag who isn't paying the rent.