A Boring Applicant

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Avicenna

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http://www.studentdoctor.net/2014/03/how-to-not-get-into-medical-school/

What do you make of this article? Specifically, number 5? I realize that I am the epitome of the 'mold' the author talks about. My GPA is good, I hope my MCAT will be acceptable, have a science related major, a minor, I do research, am on academic scholarship, have already accrued some leadership positions in 2 student organizations volunteer in both medical and non medical settings and shadow, but I've not done anything fantastically interesting in my life. Am I doing it wrong? How bad of a detriment is a 'boring application'?

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I didn't really care for that article. I don't understand this idea that we must do something "amazing" in order to stand out. Do what interests you and do it very well. When you excel at something you are passionate about, you will stand out.
 
That's dumb. As if they'd take someone who wrote a novel over someone who did research. How much time do they think students have?
 
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http://www.studentdoctor.net/2014/03/how-to-not-get-into-medical-school/

What do you make of this article? Specifically, number 5? I realize that I am the epitome of the 'mold' the author talks about. My GPA is good, I hope my MCAT will be acceptable, have a science related major, a minor, I do research, am on academic scholarship, have already accrued some leadership positions in 2 student organizations volunteer in both medical and non medical settings and shadow, but I've not done anything fantastically interesting in my life. Am I doing it wrong? How bad of a detriment is a 'boring application'?

Most medical students are boring. The only reason that paragraph is in the piece is to work in a #humblebrag about being an Ironman.
 
http://www.studentdoctor.net/2014/03/how-to-not-get-into-medical-school/

What do you make of this article? Specifically, number 5? I realize that I am the epitome of the 'mold' the author talks about. My GPA is good, I hope my MCAT will be acceptable, have a science related major, a minor, I do research, am on academic scholarship, have already accrued some leadership positions in 2 student organizations volunteer in both medical and non medical settings and shadow, but I've not done anything fantastically interesting in my life. Am I doing it wrong? How bad of a detriment is a 'boring application'?
I think the article tries to make a distinction between great applicants and "outstanding" applicants. The latter are people who did something like write a novel, though I'm sure there are many (and probably easier) ways to be unique in college's 4+ years
 
http://www.studentdoctor.net/2014/03/how-to-not-get-into-medical-school/

What do you make of this article? Specifically, number 5? I realize that I am the epitome of the 'mold' the author talks about. My GPA is good, I hope my MCAT will be acceptable, have a science related major, a minor, I do research, am on academic scholarship, have already accrued some leadership positions in 2 student organizations volunteer in both medical and non medical settings and shadow, but I've not done anything fantastically interesting in my life. Am I doing it wrong? How bad of a detriment is a 'boring application'?
But no you're not doing it wrong.
 
I think the article tries to make a distinction between great applicants and "outstanding" applicants. The latter are people who did something like write a novel, though I'm sure there are many (and probably easier) ways to be unique in college's 4+ years

Like writing 5 novels?
 
http://www.studentdoctor.net/2014/03/how-to-not-get-into-medical-school/

What do you make of this article? Specifically, number 5? I realize that I am the epitome of the 'mold' the author talks about. My GPA is good, I hope my MCAT will be acceptable, have a science related major, a minor, I do research, am on academic scholarship, have already accrued some leadership positions in 2 student organizations volunteer in both medical and non medical settings and shadow, but I've not done anything fantastically interesting in my life. Am I doing it wrong? How bad of a detriment is a 'boring application'?

I think the counterpoints to being "boring" that they offered are ridiculous (really, writing a novel?). Interesting things that you can include on your AMCAS are not necessarily impressive things but things that someone might be interested to talk about in your interview.

A huge segment of the applicant pool that looks the same -- if you put down that you raise fancy pigeons* in your ECs, it's not "impressive" but it's a sigh of relief for the person who (1) otherwise has to figure out how to have interesting conversation about your Bio major and ER scribing, (2) will help distinguish you from the masses of other people (nobody will get you confused with the other 3.7 GPA, 34 MCAT, Bio major if you're pigeon lady!), and (3) has some chance of earning warm fuzzies from an interviewer who raised pigeons as a kid or something. The point I would take away from the article is ideally not that you need to start doing such an activity, but that you need to identify the thing you do that you're not thinking is CV/AMCAS worthy.

*I do not raise pigeons, but I did put something similarly inane on my med school and residency apps and I have been asked about it far more than anything else in my CV at essentially every single interview I've done in my life.
 
I didn't really care for that article. I don't understand this idea that we must do something "amazing" in order to stand out. Do what interests you and do it very well. When you excel at something you are passionate about, you will stand out.
I agree with you on the bold, but I do think that's what he was trying to say in the article. I think the author was just trying to say, think about what makes you unique/stands out and emphasize that. Doesn't have to be amazing. It could be anything that you're passionate about/defines you. I think that's good advice. Maybe poorly worded though.
 
Benjamin Wright said:
5. Be Boring
So you’re a biology/chemistry/biochemistry major from __________ University? You volunteered at some clinics and hospitals, did some research in undergrad, and shadowed a neurosurgeon/heart surgeon/ER doc? You’ve also got a minor or two, some fun hobbies, and were involved in six different charities during college? EMT? On academic scholarships? Get in line!

Yeah don't do any of that stuff! Don't volunteer, do research, shadow, minor in anything, have hobbies, or be involved in charity. People get accepted to medical school all the time with those activities. Snoresville! 🙄
 
*I do not raise pigeons, but I did put something similarly inane on my med school and residency apps and I have been asked about it far more than anything else in my CV at essentially every single interview I've done in my life.

When applying for computer programming jobs, I had a section on my resume titled something like, "Special Skill and Activities" where among other things I devoted 3 lines to saying, "Lucid Dreaming: / -Flying / -Shooting fireballs." I had a similar experience to yours and was asked about this more than anything else in my interviews.

I suppose it's company dependent as to whether interviewers will see that as unprofessional, or if it makes you stand out in a positive way as a smart but quirky person. Probably not a good idea if you're applying for a finance job, but I had a lot of success with this tactic. It gave me a chance to speak intelligently and passionately about something, and it's a topic that a lot of people are interested in but maybe don't know a whole lot about or have trouble doing it.

I don't think I would/will put that on my med school application, as professionalism is valued very highly in the medical field and especially so for physicians. Then again, being human and an interesting person is also important... I dunno.
 
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Boring can be more lethal if, at interviews, you lack passion or are too laid lack (yes, there is such a thing!)

So find something you're really passionate bout and excel in it. Go read to children at the library. Visit nursing homes. Work at a hospice. Think outside the box. Your local houses of worship can provide plenty of volunteer opportunities.


http://www.studentdoctor.net/2014/03/how-to-not-get-into-medical-school/

What do you make of this article? Specifically, number 5? I realize that I am the epitome of the 'mold' the author talks about. My GPA is good, I hope my MCAT will be acceptable, have a science related major, a minor, I do research, am on academic scholarship, have already accrued some leadership positions in 2 student organizations volunteer in both medical and non medical settings and shadow, but I've not done anything fantastically interesting in my life. Am I doing it wrong? How bad of a detriment is a 'boring application'?
 
Student researchers are not merely a dime dozen, they're a penny a gross. A published novelist would definitely catch the eye of an Admissions Dean. It's up to you to maximize your time. You're the master of your destiny.

That's dumb. As if they'd take someone who wrote a novel over someone who did research. How much time do they think students have?
 
Be proud of what you have accomplished! You have worked so hard. A bad attitude can make an application boring.
 
I think the counterpoints to being "boring" that they offered are ridiculous (really, writing a novel?). Interesting things that you can include on your AMCAS are not necessarily impressive things but things that someone might be interested to talk about in your interview.

A huge segment of the applicant pool that looks the same -- if you put down that you raise fancy pigeons* in your ECs, it's not "impressive" but it's a sigh of relief for the person who (1) otherwise has to figure out how to have interesting conversation about your Bio major and ER scribing, (2) will help distinguish you from the masses of other people (nobody will get you confused with the other 3.7 GPA, 34 MCAT, Bio major if you're pigeon lady!), and (3) has some chance of earning warm fuzzies from an interviewer who raised pigeons as a kid or something. The point I would take away from the article is ideally not that you need to start doing such an activity, but that you need to identify the thing you do that you're not thinking is CV/AMCAS worthy.

*I do not raise pigeons, but I did put something similarly inane on my med school and residency apps and I have been asked about it far more than anything else in my CV at essentially every single interview I've done in my life.


Completely agree with all of the above. I also had a completely non medically related EC that was pretty unique (also not pigeons lol!) and I can't think of a single interviewer out of 8 (spread over four schools) that didn't ask about it! I don't think it got me into said schools by any means but it did show I had some serious determination and made my app stand out... It's just a hobby though, nothing in any way related to medicine or something I did with any job resume/med school application in mind.
 
I think the counterpoints to being "boring" that they offered are ridiculous (really, writing a novel?). Interesting things that you can include on your AMCAS are not necessarily impressive things but things that someone might be interested to talk about in your interview.
Note that it says "write a novel" not "publish a novel." Writing a novel is easy (There's National Novel Writing Month each November when you're supposed to write 50k words all in one month), and it's certainly something that would be asked about in interviews. I did NaNoWriMo a couple years ago and not only is it something I am sure they would ask me about, but due to the subject matter of my book, it could certainly lead to a lot of other questions that would actually be relevant to a med school adcom. It's sci-fi about advanced robots and delves a lot into related ethics. One of the main characters is actually a robot doctor, so there's a lot to be talked about - like the role technology will have in the future of medicine, etc...

(full disclosure: I'm not a pre-med so I'm not trying to pretend my application is stronger for having written a novel, because I'm not even applying - I'm just here as my SO's representative because he's not into the message boards. I wish he'd written a book though! 😛)

ETA: Of course, being published would be MUCH more impressive. All I mean to say is that I think writing for pleasure will be at least as impressive as any other random hobby that you do for your own enjoyment (such as pigeon training), and furthermore, that writing is actually probably way more impressive than it is difficult. Every time someone hears I wrote a novel it blows his mind even though all it really took was a medium-size time commitment - no special skills or anything like that.
 
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On the topic of things to make you stand out... Can you include interests as well as hobbies? I mean things that you can research/study/debate/ponder, but can't really *do*, like world religion or philosophy or something like that? How would you put that on an application so it doesn't look completely like fluff?
 
That article made me really nervous and feel like I may as well give up now haha. I guess I'm already different than the average applicant since my undergrad degree is in English/communications. However, aside from that and my near perfect GPA, there's nothing that makes me stand out at all. I would love to invest time into making myself exemplary, but I don't exactly have much time left after all of the other hoops I'm required to jump through as a pre-med.
Don't take the article too seriously. Think about things that make you unique as a person: ideas, beliefs, etc. Are there any ways in which you could express that uniqueness? How would you talk or write about it? A lot more than your hobbies can express your individuality.
 
Student researchers are not merely a dime dozen, they're a penny a gross. A published novelist would definitely catch the eye of an Admissions Dean. It's up to you to maximize your time. You're the master of your destiny.
What about a published student researcher? (Journal)
 
This is a great accomplishment, and always puts one in a good position for schools that are research powerhouses.
Yes! Thank you for the input. I'm praying so hard that my PI let's me be first author on my independent project. I've been running the whole thing and am analyzing all the samples and making my own conclusion and writing. So in any case I'll have that by the end of this year but definitely before I apply by may 2015 along with a senior honors thesis. The last thing I need is a grad student coming into my project and hogging it...............
 
At some point, wehn you discuss authorship with the PI, it wil be good to mention that this will make you very attractive to medical schools, and as such, this is very important to you. Good luck!

Yes! Thank you for the input. I'm praying so hard that my PI let's me be first author on my independent project. I've been running the whole thing and am analyzing all the samples and making my own conclusion and writing. So in any case I'll have that by the end of this year but definitely before I apply by may 2015 along with a senior honors thesis. The last thing I need is a grad student coming into my project and hogging it...............
 
I think that being less "boring" is something that really helps non-traditional students stand out during the application process. I had a lot of success this cycle with a good GPA and an average MCAT score with minimal shadowing and research, and I am 100% sure it was because I worked in a non-medical field for a few years and have plenty of non-science related hobbies and interests. Bringing something different to the table helps make a medical school class more diverse, which schools are of course looking for.
 
Yeah don't do any of that stuff! Don't volunteer, do research, shadow, minor in anything, have hobbies, or be involved in charity. People get accepted to medical school all the time with those activities. Snoresville! 🙄

If I were an ADCOM, I would seriously be impressed with an applicant who openly refused to jump through the hoops, and is open and honest about it. It takes a lot of guts to not be a conformist, and in my opinion, not conforming to put on a dog and pony show (if you weren't going to do it in the first place) is "unique" in my book.

If you take ECs like volunteering, and look at their true meaning beyond unlisted requirements, you see that it's actually helping people. Now replace "volunteering" with "helping people." It sounds insulting when people say how you were helping people is boring, or how one's helping people is superior to your helping people, and that you should work on beefing up your helping people to make it more unique/look better. 😵
 
http://www.studentdoctor.net/2014/03/how-to-not-get-into-medical-school/

What do you make of this article? Specifically, number 5? I realize that I am the epitome of the 'mold' the author talks about. My GPA is good, I hope my MCAT will be acceptable, have a science related major, a minor, I do research, am on academic scholarship, have already accrued some leadership positions in 2 student organizations volunteer in both medical and non medical settings and shadow, but I've not done anything fantastically interesting in my life. Am I doing it wrong? How bad of a detriment is a 'boring application'?

The research is good. The scholarship is probably meaningless (since the GPA & MCAT are already being used to evaluate your academics). The leadership positions are only important in terms of what you did with them. Being boring puts you in the big pool of "second picks." It makes you just 1 random kid in a sea of 5,000-15,000 applications the school must evaluate. When the top 25% of those 10,000 applications look virtually identical pre-interview, your chances of being one of the 500-1,000 students a school interviews is a bit weak. Therefore, you are better off taking advantage of the fact that you are human. From the school's perspective, they want human beings for medical students and physicians, not smart robots.

5. Be Boring
So you’re a biology/chemistry/biochemistry major from __________ University? You volunteered at some clinics and hospitals, did some research in undergrad, and shadowed a neurosurgeon/heart surgeon/ER doc? You’ve also got a minor or two, some fun hobbies, and were involved in six different charities during college? EMT? On academic scholarships? Get in line! Ok, so I’m joking a little bit, but that is a stereotypical mold for medical students. Why? Personally, I think it’s a self fulfilling cycle. Medical schools accept those students because a majority of good applicants fit that mold, so the next cycle of good applicants also fits that mold, so medical schools accept more of the same kind……..repeating over and over again. Otherwise, I have no idea. The point of this is to try to do something interesting, so that you stand out a little bit more. I don’t mean doing another thousand hours of volunteer work, I just mean whatever it is that makes you unique is what you need to capitalize on. Make sure they understand that you also started a business, wrote a book, lived in another country for a few years, etc. I’m the only Ironman triathlete in my class. I don’t know if that helped my application, but I bet it didn’t hurt.

Those things may sound super rare, but we actually have quite a few people who fit in those categories in my class as well as the ones before and after me. Those are the sorts of people Admissions is seeking and they are far more common than you might imagine. I don't have stats in hand for my class, but I can immediately think of several former TFAers; a couple of people with multiple marathons under their belt; a former JD student; a heck of a lot of people who did research at the NIH or CDC; a student who skipped high school; a student who founded an international charity organization that provides support to orphanages in a couple of internationally forgotten countries; and many more. You can bet those people were remembered as "something" by their reviewers and interviewer. You want to be known as "the [something]" and you want that "something" to be good (although even neutral is still probably better than just disappearing into the void as a nameless applicant).

That's dumb. As if they'd take someone who wrote a novel over someone who did research. How much time do they think students have?

Clearly, you missed that entire thread you started the other day. Or you just don't get it.
 
I wonder...

would it be appropriate to put a hobby that might spark a political debate on your application? I would hate to have a bad interview because the interviewer thought guns are evil (I like to shoot).

Hm.
 
I wonder...

would it be appropriate to put a hobby that might spark a political debate on your application? I would hate to have a bad interview because the interviewer thought guns are evil (I like to shoot).

Hm.

Probably depends how you frame it:

Good: "I grew up out West, where my dad taught me to hunt deer and elk. I really enjoy going out and hunting game in season because it helps me understand the delicate balance of nature... [bla bla bla]"

Good: "I grew up in the rural midwest, where I learned to hunt. However, because I love animals, I became a vegetarian but still enjoy shotgun sports. I am now an Olympic skeet shooter... [bla bla bla]"

Bad: "I grew up in the rural midwest, where I learned to hunt... [bla bla bla]. I really enjoy hunting for sport."

Basically, if it's something non-destructive, it should be fine. If it's something where you're killing animals unnecessarily (i.e., wrecklessly), then of course people are likely to be taken aback. Use common sense and you should be fine.
 
Probably depends how you frame it:

Good: "I grew up out West, where my dad taught me to hunt deer and elk. I really enjoy going out and hunting game in season because it helps me understand the delicate balance of nature... [bla bla bla]"

Good: "I grew up in the rural midwest, where I learned to hunt. However, because I love animals, I became a vegetarian but still enjoy shotgun sports. I am now an Olympic skeet shooter... [bla bla bla]"

Bad: "I grew up in the rural midwest, where I learned to hunt... [bla bla bla]. I really enjoy hunting for sport."

Basically, if it's something non-destructive, it should be fine. If it's something where you're killing animals unnecessarily (i.e., wrecklessly), then of course people are likely to be taken aback. Use common sense and you should be fine.


I wasn't really thinking along those lines...

Some people disagree with being able to own firearms, period. I'm more worried about getting looked at in a negative light just because I own firearms and like to shoot.
 
I wasn't really thinking along those lines...

Some people disagree with being able to own firearms, period. I'm more worried about getting looked at in a negative light just because I own firearms and like to shoot.

If it's something that legitimately interests you, and you can articulate why, then talk about it. I got accepted to a top 15 school after spending 25min of my interview talking about SxS vs O/U double barrels for shooting clays.
 
I wasn't really thinking along those lines...

Some people disagree with being able to own firearms, period. I'm more worried about getting looked at in a negative light just because I own firearms and like to shoot.

Some people disagree with driving instead of walking too (more pollution, more obesity, more "di-a-beet-us"). Honestly, I wouldn't worry too much about the politics of it. The fact is there are other adcom members who will be evaluating you as well as your interviewer. Definitely "read" your interviewer to get an idea of whether or not it's a topic you should delve into, but in terms of the application essays and whatnot, I wouldn't worry too much about listing it as long as you explain your interest appropriately.
 
I wasn't really thinking along those lines...

Some people disagree with being able to own firearms, period. I'm more worried about getting looked at in a negative light just because I own firearms and like to shoot.

I personally don't like firearms and would prefer it if they weren't around but if I was an interviewer I wouldn't look at it negatively. This might only hurt you if you got a petulant child for an interviewer or someone that can't stand other people having other opinions. I imagine that's rare.

If you hunt I would anticipate a question about the ethics of killing things conflicting with medicine but you would probably only get that from a vegetarian/vegan/animal rights activist.
 
One of my friends wrote and published a book in college solely to put on his medical school application. I think being impressed by something like that is a little premature and shallow. To me it's just a hobby and it takes a little digging to see if it is actually something to be impressed by as a person trying to become a doctor. I don't think the title of an activity or an experience is what determines if it is "boring" or "exceptional". It's more about what you learned from it and how it changed you and how you can show that you learned something that will come in handy as a doctor.
 
If I were an ADCOM, I would seriously be impressed with an applicant who openly refused to jump through the hoops, and is open and honest about it. It takes a lot of guts to not be a conformist, and in my opinion, not conforming to put on a dog and pony show (if you weren't going to do it in the first place) is "unique" in my book.

If you take ECs like volunteering, and look at their true meaning beyond unlisted requirements, you see that it's actually helping people. Now replace "volunteering" with "helping people." It sounds insulting when people say how you were helping people is boring, or how one's helping people is superior to your helping people, and that you should work on beefing up your helping people to make it more unique/look better. 😵

Actually I think the main reason schools want to see volunteering is that it is a learning experience. Not necessarily that it shows you are compassionate (since, like you mentioned, everyone sees it as a requirement).
 
One of my friends wrote and published a book in college solely to put on his medical school application. I think being impressed by something like that is a little premature and shallow. To me it's just a hobby and it takes a little digging to see if it is actually something to be impressed by as a person trying to become a doctor. I don't think the title of an activity or an experience is what determines if it is "boring" or "exceptional". It's more about what you learned from it and how it changed you and how you can show that you learned something that will come in handy as a doctor.
Of course it's just a hobby. So is shooting, or gardening, or knitting, or whatever. She's just saying that you want something that makes you stand out from the thousands of other applicants who all have good grades, good MCAT, good ECs, research, etc... Something that makes you a person and not just a premed robot.
 
If I were an ADCOM, I would seriously be impressed with an applicant who openly refused to jump through the hoops, and is open and honest about it. It takes a lot of guts to not be a conformist, and in my opinion, not conforming to put on a dog and pony show (if you weren't going to do it in the first place) is "unique" in my book.

If you take ECs like volunteering, and look at their true meaning beyond unlisted requirements, you see that it's actually helping people. Now replace "volunteering" with "helping people." It sounds insulting when people say how you were helping people is boring, or how one's helping people is superior to your helping people, and that you should work on beefing up your helping people to make it more unique/look better. 😵
Oh God I hope I get committee members who also think like this. I've spent the majority of college doing the bare minimum of premed stuff and devoted myself to other things I'm not gonna have a chance to do later on.
 
I've spent the majority of college doing the bare minimum of premed stuff and devoted myself to other things I'm not gonna have a chance to do later on.

This obviously makes you a horrible person. Have you thought about dental school?



[/sarcasm]
 
Of course it's just a hobby. So is shooting, or gardening, or knitting, or whatever. She's just saying that you want something that makes you stand out from the thousands of other applicants who all have good grades, good MCAT, good ECs, research, etc... Something that makes you a person and not just a premed robot.

yes and I am disagreeing. I am saying that you shouldn't need a "unique" activity i.e. an activity with a title that few other people can say they have. Standing out comes from your own unique experiences with your "good ECs". Not all hospital volunteering is the same. Not all research is the same. Not all jobs are the same. A simple part-time hospital volunteering job could be more impressive, informative, and life-changing than the most prestigious research internship in the country depending on how it is approached by each person individually. Ideally, admissions workers would recognize this.
 
yes and I am disagreeing. I am saying that you shouldn't need a "unique" activity i.e. an activity with a title that few other people can say they have. Standing out comes from your own unique experiences with your "good ECs". Not all hospital volunteering is the same. Not all research is the same. Not all jobs are the same. A simple part-time hospital volunteering job could be more impressive, informative, and life-changing than the most prestigious research internship in the country depending on how it is approached by each person individually. Ideally, admissions workers would recognize this.
It's completely true that pre-med experiences will differ - sometimes (rarely) to a great degree. But the point is that they want you to be well-rounded. They want people who have more to them than just being a pre-med.
 
It's not about being able to rattle off unique activities and being that outlier (though that can definitely help), it's about your takeaways and passion for what you do! The point of academic activities in the application is to prove you can hang academically and the point of clinical activities is to demonstrate that you know what a doc does and your pursuit of medicine isn't simply some romantic notion. So what you can do to be unique is put in a bit of introspection and think about what you've gained from your experiences!
 
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