A few questions about DOs?

[tryin2suxede]

I was just having a discussion with a friend of mine a few days ago. We were talking about MDs and DOs (NOT debating which one is better) and he told me that one of the advantages of DOs is that they have better "chances" at residencies because they are able to compete for their own DO residencies as well as MD residencies if they choose to do so. Is this right?
He is an MD student who just started his third year, so I don't think he was trying to undermine the MD path, but I have never heard of this. Can anyone elaborate?

Also, I have also heard that DOs don't have a lot of opportunities outside of the Midwest (That is where I live) and so If I choose to do DO, then I can't really "leave" the midwest (which is what I want to do). Are they actually that limited?

I am not starting a DO vs MD thread, so no sassing the two sides please.

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[chiddler]

They can apply to D.O only residencies, yes. But because they are limited in number, many D.O's must apply to M.D residencies as well. These residencies prefer M.D applicants and therefore are more difficult for D.O's to be accepted to.

I'm pretty sure I remember reading a chart that listed D.O's by state. This chart included states all over the country from california to florida. I think I remember california being 10-20% D.O. I hope this illustrates how limited D.O's are.

 

[Barley426]

Technically that is correct, they have more potential residency slots to apply to.

That being said they don't necessarily have an "advantage" per se, since MDs vastly outnumber DOs at allopathic residencies, especially the more competitive ones. This is arguably due to the fact that some DO students went DO route because they don't do as well on standardized tests (starting with the MCAT), and thus may have lower USMLE numbers. This isn't always the case but has been stated before as a potential reason.

Another reason could be actual "discrimination" of a DO applicant who is otherwise as qualified as an MD applicant, but merely not chosen because of their outdated predisposition on the part of the allopathic program admins toward osteopathic graduates. This one would be difficult to prove and is just conjecture.

The take home point is that DOs having their own residencies is less of an "advantage" more of a "ailment" to an otherwise un-level playing field they would be subjected to if their only option was to compete for allopathic residencies. As the DOs come to gain more and more acceptance in the eyes of allopathic residency programs and in the medical field in general (certainly getting there), it may just turn into an advantage, who knows.

Hope that makes sense.

 

[jrporte3]

The DO match happens before the MD match does. The DO match is in Feb, and the MD match is in March. I believe that if you match DO you are automatically pulled from the MD match. So you could apply to both, but if you match to DO first, you are cant match MD...

 

[HM3]

MDs are generally better looking than DOs and thus; they do better in the Match.

 

[cabinbuilder]

You can practice in any of the 50 states as a DO. You are not limited or trapped in any one part of the country.

 

[toxicwombat]

Technically that is correct, they have more potential residency slots to apply to.

That being said they don't necessarily have an "advantage" per se, since MDs vastly outnumber DOs at allopathic residencies, especially the more competitive ones. This is arguably due to the fact that some DO students went DO route because they don't do as well on standardized tests (starting with the MCAT), and thus may have lower USMLE numbers. This isn't always the case but has been stated before as a potential reason.

Another reason could be actual "discrimination" of a DO applicant who is otherwise as qualified as an MD applicant, but merely not chosen because of their outdated predisposition on the part of the allopathic program admins toward osteopathic graduates. This one would be difficult to prove and is just conjecture.

The take home point is that DOs having their own residencies is less of an "advantage" more of a "ailment" to an otherwise un-level playing field they would be subjected to if their only option was to compete for allopathic residencies. As the DOs come to gain more and more acceptance in the eyes of allopathic residency programs and in the medical field in general (certainly getting there), it may just turn into an advantage, who knows.

Hope that makes sense.

Well said.

 

[AlongWay]

.

Another reason could be actual "discrimination" of a DO applicant who is otherwise as qualified as an MD applicant, but merely not chosen because of their outdated predisposition on the part of the allopathic program admins toward osteopathic graduates. This one would be difficult to prove and is just conjecture.

That's not conjecture. That's the truth. If you want a residency at the top places, forget DO. If you want a residency at the best programs then forget DO. If your looking for a low level MD residency then you may have a shot, a mid tier residency if your exceptionally brilliant. Truth is getting a good residency as a DO is very difficult since MDs are more widespread/respected. It's the way the world works. I'm sure there are a couple of exceptions but ultimately beggars can't be choosers.

 

[DavetheMD]

This really isn't taking into account USMLE vs. COMLEX. For the most competitive Allopathic residencies you need a really good USMLE score.

 

[oms2]

That's not conjecture. That's the truth. If you want a residency at the top places, forget DO. If you want a residency at the best programs then forget DO. If your looking for a low level MD residency then you may have a shot, a mid tier residency if your exceptionally brilliant. Truth is getting a good residency as a DO is very difficult since MDs are more widespread/respected. It's the way the world works. I'm sure there are a couple of exceptions but ultimately beggars can't be choosers.

thus spake the south asian guy who failed 5 classes and is on academic probation, whose family hates do's

 

[Mbeas]

If you want a residency at the top places, forget DO.

1) That's certainly not true.
2) Might as well forget MD too, since as an MD, you probably won't be at a top tier program.

If you want a residency at the best programs then forget DO.

Again, might as well forget MD too.

Truth is getting a good residency as a DO is very difficult since MDs are more widespread/respected.

Where? I've worked at several hospitals and I've never noticed a difference in respect. Doctor=Doctor.

Stop spewing your pre-med nonsense.

thus spake the south asian guy who failed 5 classes and is on academic probation, whose family hates do's

lol

 

[Mbeas]

I'm pretty sure I remember reading a chart that listed D.O's by state. This chart included states all over the country from california to florida. I think I remember california being 10-20% D.O. I hope this illustrates how limited D.O's are.

This isn't a limitation. It's not because of "discrimination" or some physical barrier. It's a choice.

 

[qwerty2012]

Technically that is correct, they have more potential residency slots to apply to.

That being said they don't necessarily have an "advantage" per se, since MDs vastly outnumber DOs at allopathic residencies, especially the more competitive ones. This is arguably due to the fact that some DO students went DO route because they don't do as well on standardized tests (starting with the MCAT), and thus may have lower USMLE numbers. This isn't always the case but has been stated before as a potential reason.

Another reason could be actual "discrimination" of a DO applicant who is otherwise as qualified as an MD applicant, but merely not chosen because of their outdated predisposition on the part of the allopathic program admins toward osteopathic graduates. This one would be difficult to prove and is just conjecture.

The take home point is that DOs having their own residencies is less of an "advantage" more of a "ailment" to an otherwise un-level playing field they would be subjected to if their only option was to compete for allopathic residencies. As the DOs come to gain more and more acceptance in the eyes of allopathic residency programs and in the medical field in general (certainly getting there), it may just turn into an advantage, who knows.

Hope that makes sense.

Agree on most but the pt about "ailement" is too stretched, it really depends on the circumstance and the speciality you want in.

 

[dudeliness]

1) That's certainly not true.
2) Might as well forget MD too, since as an MD, you probably won't be at a top tier program.



Again, might as well forget MD too.



Where? I've worked at several hospitals and I've never noticed a difference in respect. Doctor=Doctor.

Stop spewing your pre-med nonsense.




lol

+1
Tell it like it is brother

 

[AlongWay]

1) That's certainly not true.
2) Might as well forget MD too, since as an MD, you probably won't be at a top tier program.



Again, might as well forget MD too.



Where? I've worked at several hospitals and I've never noticed a difference in respect. Doctor=Doctor.

Stop spewing your pre-med nonsense.




lol

By beggars can't be choosers I didn't mean DO < MD at all. I know they are equal as well. What I was trying to say was how there is still bias towards DOs which works against spots at top residencies. Even if you are as good/better than MD candidates. It is hard for MDs too, yes, but at least there is somewhat of a chance provided your excepitional in med school.

 

[angldrps]

That's not conjecture. That's the truth. If you want a residency at the top places, forget DO. If you want a residency at the best programs then forget DO. If your looking for a low level MD residency then you may have a shot, a mid tier residency if your exceptionally brilliant. Truth is getting a good residency as a DO is very difficult since MDs are more widespread/respected. It's the way the world works. I'm sure there are a couple of exceptions but ultimately beggars can't be choosers.

You are so ridiculously misinformed that I just read your posts for a good laugh now. You have been constantly corrected by posters who have much,much more knowledge and experience than you yet you still continue to be ignorant. Yes, DOs are at a slight disadvantage but not to the extend you think they are.

 

[timmaycakes]

That's not conjecture. That's the truth. If you want a residency at the top places, forget DO. If you want a residency at the best programs then forget DO. If your looking for a low level MD residency then you may have a shot, a mid tier residency if your exceptionally brilliant. Truth is getting a good residency as a DO is very difficult since MDs are more widespread/respected. It's the way the world works. I'm sure there are a couple of exceptions but ultimately beggars can't be choosers.

Wow. Not sure where to begin.

Medical school is medical school. Unless you're going to Yale, Stanford, Harvard, etc, you probably will not stand out from your colleagues solely on the basis of your school. I say "probably" because this is the general consensus of physicians that I've spoken to (and not a blanket statement that alongway seems to like making). Your competitiveness for residency will be based on many other factors such as boards, recommendations, research, etc. Also getting into an ultracompetitive residency is hard because of factors not exclusive to DO schools. I think your statement may apply more to IMGs. They are really the ones who have it hard. Their chances of residency are limited even if they have superior board scores and ECs.

Looking at match lists (from the Osteopathic Reference) it is obvious that DO schools have less students going into residencies at the "very best programs". I think this has very little to do with the nature of the degree being "DO", but everything to do with the general type of student that chooses to go D.O. Many DO students are non-traditional. Whether that means we are older, have families, or have other commitments, these priorities are placed first and foremost. Some students may choose residencies closer to family, or a specialty that requires less years of training. Traditional DO students also have their own reason for choosing the residencies they go to. I would strongly disagree with using that data to fit that into the conclusion of "DOs can't get top residencies". If you are doubtful, please check the Osteopathic Reference. Plenty of DOs have gotten into enviable residencies in spite of the small amount of discrimination they deal with.

Also Alongway, I have read some of your posts. I have been in your position before. Keep working toward your goal with as much positivity as possible and you will achieve your goals.

Just my .02 cents. If anyone feels they have a correction for my statement, feel free.

 

[Mbeas]

By beggars can't be choosers I didn't mean DO < MD at all. I know they are equal as well. What I was trying to say was how there is still bias towards DOs which works against spots at top residencies. Even if you are as good/better than MD candidates. It is hard for MDs too, yes, but at least there is somewhat of a chance provided your excepitional in med school.

Still not sure what your point is...

There is somewhat of a chance either way, albeit a greater chance for MD's (logically, considering MD residencies were made for MD's).

 

[zoner]

You can practice in any of the 50 states as a DO. You are not limited or trapped in any one part of the country.

while this is completely true, if you want to specialize in any competitive specialty, most likely you won't match into them in highly desirable areas like California.

look at any specialty match list of DO schools in the Western states, you will see that most of students matched into a competitive field outside of California either the midwest or the south mostly. I am not saying all, but mostly. Most, probably 95 % of match in California is in less competitive match like family or internal med.

 

[Mbeas]

while this is completely true, if you want to specialize in any competitive specialty, most likely you won't match into them in highly desirable areas like California.

look at any specialty match list of DO schools in the Western states, you will see that most of students matched into a competitive field outside of California either the midwest or the south mostly. I am not saying all, but mostly. Most, probably 95 % of match in California is in less competitive match like family or internal med.

So you don't do your residency in CA. Doesn't mean anything about practicing in CA.

 

[zoner]

So you don't do your residency in CA. Doesn't mean anything about practicing in CA.

but stats show that most docs practice near where they did their residency... also Cali is especially hard to break into specialty field

 

[MedBR]

but stats show that most docs practice near where they did their residency... also Cali is especially hard to break into specialty field

So? That's because a lot of people settle down and/or get comfortable. There is nothing preventing you from moving.

 

[zoner]

So? That's because a lot of people settle down and/or get comfortable. There is nothing preventing you from moving.

yes, there is. its called market for your skill and what and who you know. hence the reason why my sis had to start her practice somewhere else

 

[chiddler]

This isn't a limitation. It's not because of "discrimination" or some physical barrier. It's a choice.

I know. What I meant is that that statistic ought to demonstrate that they are not at all limited by any means but their own choice.