A lot to consider

[Orthodoc40]

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As a few of you know, I am gettin' up there in the age of students attending medical school now (42). I put this thread in the non trads mainly because I think older students can understand the dilemmas I'm facing in deciding what to do this summer.

Basically, I'm lucky enough to have gotten in to 3 schools this year, my 2nd time around. 2 of them are DO schools, 1 is an MD school - so right there, I'm sure, some division will come out of it. (The schools are Des Moines University, UMDNJ-SOM, and Michigan State.) I am from MA.

I'm fine with DO school - in fact, I suspect I would fit in more, for some reason. But with my interest in surgery as it currently stands (and I know that could very likely change while I'm there) most of my current advisors (MD's) are telling me to 'go to the MD school because it will just be an easier path to the specialty you're after', plus you won't have to take both licensing exams, you'll have an easier time getting electives you want... There's been at least 1 DO graduate that has echoed that sentiment to me, too.

Catch #1, is that one of the DO schools (UMDNJ) I got into is $30k/year cheaper than the MD school (MSU) these people are telling me to go to! Yikes! They have also been very supportive of me for the last 5.5 weeks and my mother's situation (to follow...)

Catch #2, is that my mother unexpectedly died last Tuesday. She had an allergic reaction to contrast dye for a CT scan, went into shock, and fought multi-organ failure for 5 and a half weeks in the ICU. Aside from the pain of losing her, it shakes my confidence in medicine entirely, to be honest.
Can I leave my dad, home, and start school in another state 2.5 months from now? Will I be able to focus, and do well, with this so large & recent a loss? How will I know?

One solution is that if I defer a year, I can be instate at the MD school and the tuition becomes about the same. But that's another year older when I'm done, again making things possibly tougher later, but for different reasons. It seems like I should maybe defer, get the instate tuition, have time to grieve and adjust. And yet, there's another year I could be closer to finishing school.

So the questions are which school, and when?

DMU - liked it the most, have great match list in all specialties, farthest from home, most likely have to move again for 3rd & 4th year
UMDNJ - closest to home, cheapest if I go this year, starts soonest, very supportive through my mom's ordeal
MSU - MD option, most expensive if I go this year, starts latest, might make it easier for me to do my residency back in Boston or nearby

(Right now, I'm leaning toward UMDNJ or MSU)

It's a lot to think about, and not a lot of time to decide. No one can decide for me, that's not what this is for. It's to elicit some other helpful viewpoints that may not have occurred to me through all of this.

 

[RisingSun]

Orthodoc

I'm sorry to hear about your mother. This must be a hard time for you to have to make such a difficult decision.

I actually voted twice, once for attending MSU this year and once for attending it next year after gaining in-state tuition. I have heard good things about the school (my children's PCP is a MSU grad - she loved it there). And it will make whatever specialty you choose in the future that much easier to attain (easier to schedule electives, don't have to worry about the required DO internship in some states if you decided that you wanted to practice there and did something other than surgery, etc. - you've obviously done your homework and know the issues). I was accepted to a DO school (AZCOM) as well but have also been accepted to MD schools as well and never looked back, even though I thought that AZCOM would have been a fine place to study medicine.

I think that you need to weigh in how important it is for you to be close to family right now. Does your dad need your support?

Anyway, I'm sorry that you have to make such a difficult decision right now. Go with what feels right to you in your gut so that you don't look back and regret the decision that you made. That being said, I'd choose one of the options that includes MSU.

 

[apnea]

i'm sorry about your mom. What a fluke, that's absolutely terrible 🙁

And i'm sure it did shake your confidence quite a bit. But i hate to sound insensitive, and i'm sorry if i do...but when you fall off of a horse, the best thing to do is get back on.

Based on your point by point synopsis of each school...i'd say go DO if you're going to go this year. Deferral maybe would be good for you, and you'd have to be the one to decide that, but if you want to go soon, DO schools seem to be a much better fit for a lot of non-trads. You said you liked DMU the best, but it was farthest from home, but UMDNJ was supportive (you'll need that) and close to home...unless you really just didn't like it there, i'd say the latter is probably the one i'd choose.

i'm so sorry you had to/are going through this. Pretty crap timing, and that's one of the least concerns. If you want to talk, most everyone here is genuinely decent as a human being and overwhelmingly supportive.

You'll make it. And when you graduate, i'll buy you this: http://images.google.com/imgres?img...2&start=198&gbv=2&ndsp=18&svnum=10&hl=en&sa=N

 

[ana]

As a few of you know, I am gettin' up there in the age of students attending medical school now (42). I put this thread in the non trads mainly because I think older students can understand the dilemmas I'm facing in deciding what to do this summer.

Basically, I'm lucky enough to have gotten in to 3 schools this year, my 2nd time around. 2 of them are DO schools, 1 is an MD school - so right there, I'm sure, some division will come out of it. (The schools are Des Moines University, UMDNJ-SOM, and Michigan State.) I am from MA.

I'm fine with DO school - in fact, I suspect I would fit in more, for some reason. But with my interest in surgery as it currently stands (and I know that could very likely change while I'm there) most of my current advisors (MD's) are telling me to 'go to the MD school because it will just be an easier path to the specialty you're after', plus you won't have to take both licensing exams, you'll have an easier time getting electives you want... There's been at least 1 DO graduate that has echoed that sentiment to me, too.

Catch #1, is that one of the DO schools (UMDNJ) I got into is $30k/year cheaper than the MD school (MSU) these people are telling me to go to! Yikes! They have also been very supportive of me for the last 5.5 weeks and my mother's situation (to follow...)

Catch #2, is that my mother unexpectedly died last Tuesday. She had an allergic reaction to contrast dye for a CT scan, went into shock, and fought multi-organ failure for 5 and a half weeks in the ICU. Aside from the pain of losing her, it shakes my confidence in medicine entirely, to be honest.
Can I leave my dad, home, and start school in another state 2.5 months from now? Will I be able to focus, and do well, with this so large & recent a loss? How will I know?

One solution is that if I defer a year, I can be instate at the MD school and the tuition becomes about the same. But that's another year older when I'm done, again making things possibly tougher later, but for different reasons. It seems like I should maybe defer, get the instate tuition, have time to grieve and adjust. And yet, there's another year I could be closer to finishing school.

So the questions are which school, and when?

DMU - liked it the most, have great match list in all specialties, farthest from home, most likely have to move again for 3rd & 4th year
UMDNJ - closest to home, cheapest if I go this year, starts soonest, very supportive through my mom's ordeal
MSU - MD option, most expensive if I go this year, starts latest, might make it easier for me to do my residency back in Boston or nearby

(Right now, I'm leaning toward UMDNJ or MSU)

It's a lot to think about, and not a lot of time to decide. No one can decide for me, that's not what this is for. It's to elicit some other helpful viewpoints that may not have occurred to me through all of this.

I would choose MSU either now or next year. Your father may need you even more in 4 years when he is even older, and you want to have the greatest flexibility when it comes to choosing a residency.

MSU will understand if you have to defer one year because of your recent and profound loss. Do not worry about taking one year to grieve and take care of your father. Does it really matter if you graduate at 46 or 47? Do not worry about how the physicians who helped your family will feel. They are grown ups. They will understand.

If you decide to attend DMU instead, consider deferring them one year also. It's tough to study when you have a lot on your mind, especially taking care of a grieving elder parent when you yourself are in mourning. Although DO's are fine physicians, they do have a tougher time getting into more competitive residencies. You need to get very good grades and do well on board exams.

I need to ask some questions regarding your father:
1. How old is he? Is he retired and able to live independently?
2. How are your father's finances? If he is not able to live by himself, can he move to an assisted living community?

I don't mean to sound callous. Even if you attended the nearby school, you cannot take care of an elderly parent and do well academically. Even if you didin't attend class, you still need to invest time in studying.

I am so sorry for your loss.

 

[Orthodoc40]

Thanks everyone so far.
My dad is quite independent. He has run his own shop since he was 20 years old, and never misses a day of work. I'm sure in part, he'd like to take care of himself - the only thing I can really provide is someone nearby, and to help with cleaning, laundry, help with the dog, and just be around. I think another part of him doesn't want to deal with being all alone all of a sudden - the loss of my mother after just about 50 years of marriage must be huger than I can imagine. Then I'm gone, and maybe I have to take the doggie with me, too? I just picture him all alone every night in this big house, feeling very lonely and sad, and I worry.

BTW, I am not married, and have no kids - so these choices are not affecting anyone else, really.

 

[apnea]

how close is "close" exactly?

 

[Orthodoc40]

What's the context?
Schools close to home?

 

[ana]

Thanks everyone so far.
My dad is quite independent. He has run his own shop since he was 20 years old, and never misses a day of work. I'm sure in part, he'd like to take care of himself - the only thing I can really provide is someone nearby, and to help with cleaning, laundry, help with the dog, and just be around. I think another part of him doesn't want to deal with being all alone all of a sudden - the loss of my mother after just about 50 years of marriage must be huger than I can imagine. Then I'm gone, and maybe I have to take the doggie with me, too? I just picture him all alone every night in this big house, feeling very lonely and sad, and I worry.

BTW, I am not married, and have no kids - so these choices are not affecting anyone else, really.

I understand. I am close to someone in the same situation.

Your father's situation is very tough. No one, not even you, can fill the void of his wife's death. He will need a lot of time to heal.

You may need a year off. However, I think it is not just for your grief over your mother's death. It will also be so you can put your mind at ease with respect to your father. Frankly, I would worry about him more if he did not have an occupation. But if he is healthy and has a business that he cares about, that will be good medicine for him, especially if it is a business where he has daily contact with people. You may find that, after a period of time, he will do better than you expected.

When it comes time, however, you must go on with your life, and you cannot allow yourself to feel remorse or guilt for doing so. You cannot be a constant companon for your father at 42 years of age, especially when you have other ambitions. Your father probably would not want that anyway.

Also, if you have a close and healthy relationship with your father (I don't mean this as an insult. Many people on this forum have dysfunctional parent-child relationships), discuss it with him. Ask him for his advice. He may surprise you.

 

[tkim]

Sorry to read about your loss. Here's my algorithm:

1) Are you (and your father) ready for you to enter school this year?

a) Yes - matriculate to the school you felt the best fit with.
b) No - defer for a year and if you feel ready then, go to a)

Medical school will always be there. The time you need to sort through your loss will not. You owe it yourself to be the best prepared emotionally before entering school. You owe it to your mother to work through your feelings about her so that they do not conflict with what you want to accomplish.

Everything else - location, distance, cost, etc., while somwhat important, are really secondary. You like surgery. Fine. All of the schools listed are solid performers and should get you to where you want to go. Cost will normalize even for the most expensive school - MSU, after the first year - no?

One word of advice from someone who just graduated and did the interview trail. I'd stick to the coast that I'd eventually want to do residency in. Flying back and forth from CA to the East Coast was pretty fricking expensive, and you could save beaucoup bucks by settling on one coast versus the other early in life. Good luck.

 

[efex101]

Based on your future desire of doing surgery I would go to the allo school either now or defer for one year. I know a year seems like a lot to you NOW, but in the big scheme of things it is nothing. Sorry about your loss.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

I can't comment on the school selection, but my thoughts about the deferral are that you should only do it if you think it will be best for you emotionally. The money you'll save by instate tuition probably isn't worth the income loss of one year of income, especially orthopedic surgery income. So do if it feels right, but don't factor the money issue in there.

 

[apnea]

What's the context?
Schools close to home?

basically, within reasonable driving distance on the weekends, or during the week if he really needed you. because i'd pick that one.

 

[Orthodoc40]

basically, within reasonable driving distance on the weekends, or during the week if he really needed you. because i'd pick that one.

Ahh. Well none are really close enough to drive during the week. NJ is closest - a 1 hr plane ride out of Philly. It's about a 7 hr drive though.

 

[apnea]

have you called them and asked about deferral options? that might help you make a better decision. if you decide that you can't defer...i'm still thinking go DO and go to the school closest to home.

how are you holding up btw?

 

[jace's mom]

I'm very sorry to hear about your mother. I voted UMDNJ this year...but only if you are the kind of person who needs work to help you get through grief. I have always used hard work to get me through difficult times, and so I would probably go on to school because that's how I cope. If you do decide to start school this year, I would locate the school's counseling center and use it as often as needed. UMDNJ because it's cheapest, closest, very supportive, and not impossible for a surgery match. Besides, you said DO makes you feel more comfortable, and if you're more comfortable you'll do better overall (which will reflect well in residency applications).

My most sincere best wishes to you...

 

[bottles999]

First, My condolences on your loss. Based on your response(s) sounds like you already made up your mind. I will say this though. I use to live in Detroit area and just moving to Boston to attend med school here. The drive is 13-14 hrs depending if you cut through Canada or a 1-2 hr flight. If you fly, your best choice is Northwestern out of Detroit, which still leaves you with 1-2 hr car ride back to Lansing, MSU territory.

Based on your interests listed, surgery, I would suspect MD is a better path than a DO. However, that is for you to decide. Might want to try a weighted average. Stack things against each other and weight them with importance with you. Money.. Training... etc.

Good Luck!

 

[Orthodoc40]

First, My condolences on your loss. Based on your response(s) sounds like you already made up your mind. I will say this though. I use to live in Detroit area and just moving to Boston to attend med school here. The drive is 13-14 hrs depending if you cut through Canada or a 1-2 hr flight. If you fly, your best choice is Northwestern out of Detroit, which still leaves you with 1-2 hr car ride back to Lansing, MSU territory.

Based on your interests listed, surgery, I would suspect MD is a better path than a DO. However, that is for you to decide. Might want to try a weighted average. Stack things against each other and weight them with importance with you. Money.. Training... etc.

Good Luck!

Thanks for the driving info - I didn't realize it was that 'short' a drive.
I haven't made up my mind yet, other than give up my seat at DMU. That was actually hard to do, since it was my favorite. There are just too many other compelling reasons for me to go to either UMDNJ or MSU, though.
And as it is looking right now anyway, I will start this summer. The fact that MSU will give me another month to get ready is handy, I'll admit.

 

[Orthodoc40]

Just thought I'd bump this up.

Also, someone sent me some info this week that UMDNJ may no longer allow such easy in state tuition breaks, and may even be allowed to collect from people that have gotten those breaks previously (can't IMAGINE they'd legally get away with that!!)

I have no idea if this is true or not, but it does leave me believing even more strongly that I should TRY to not make the $$ be the deciding factor in this. Tough to do, knowing that in my 50's I'll be carrying around so much debt!

 

[viostorm]

I am sorry to hear about your mother.

The *are you ready* to go emotionally is something I think only you can answer for yourself. Normal bereavement typically lasts 6 months to 1 year so this will overlap with med school if you choose to go now.

I think it is obviously a difficult decision with the finances. If you go this year, you will be 42 matriculating, 46 graduating, 51 if you do general surgery and potentially 14 years to work (65).

MD's have more career options (in general) then DO's especially in the surgical fields that are biased against DO's. Its not to say you can't be a surgeon as a DO, but you will have an easier time as an MD. Don't make things harder for yourself fighting the DO stigma, you already have enough to overcome with your age because there will likely be unspoken biases there as well.

4 years * 30k / year = 120k.

Most surgeons are making about 300k. So if you can handle making 180K and get one extra year of your working life then I'd do it.

Also you can make some deals to have tuition paid off for living in a rural area, et cetera.

We all have no idea what to expect if Hillary Clinton gets elected, we all may be making 50K working at a place the resembles the efficiency of the drivers license office.

My advice is get going ASAP, because medicine is a LONG road (provided you think you can handle the stress of school plus the loss of your parent). 42 is obviously later in life to begin the journey. Its a reality, the older you get the more likely you will have a health problem that may interfere with your ability to completely med school so I would consider that as well.