A new low? PsyD programs recruiting 1st year faculty to be directors

[DynamicDidactic]

This was mentioned in the LIU-Post thread and then I saw an add for La Salle University, both schools have recruited new hires at assistant professor level to be the directors of their PsyD programs.

Assistant Professor and Director of the Psy.D. Program - HigherEdJobs

Jobs in higher education. Faculty and administrative positions at colleges and universities. Updated daily. Free to job seekers.

www.higheredjobs.com

Essential Duties
Oversees all aspects of the Psy.D. Program.

Teaches four course per year.

I cannot imagine being a first year faculty (technically, they don't have to be but none of these ads mention anything about it), having to prep grad courses for the first time, taking on advising, and having to run a program from scratch.

As a faculty applicant, I would definitely stay away. As a student in the program, I would be very cautious. This is asking for faculty to fail.

thoughts?

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Members don't see this ad.

 

[Fan_of_Meehl]

This was mentioned in the LIU-Post thread and then I saw an add for La Salle University, both schools have recruited new hires at assistant professor level to be the directors of their PsyD programs.

Assistant Professor and Director of the Psy.D. Program - HigherEdJobs

Jobs in higher education. Faculty and administrative positions at colleges and universities. Updated daily. Free to job seekers.

www.higheredjobs.com

I cannot imagine being a first year faculty (technically, they don't have to be but none of these ads mention anything about it), having to prep grad courses for the first time, taking on advising, and having to run a program from scratch.

As a faculty applicant, I would definitely stay away. As a student in the program, I would be very cautious. This is asking for faculty to fail.

thoughts?

I think that the perverse economic incentives that involve maximizing number of students being overcharged tuition to attend a program staffed by minimal numbers of faculty are starting to catch up with some of these programs.

 

[Sanman]

The preferred qualifications on that job posting are pathetic. Could they not find a few dollars in their coffers to hire an experienced faculty member?

 

[MiniLop]

I have been hearing through the grapevine that La Salle's program is pure chaos right now, so this is sadly not surprising.

 

[summerbabe]

As a student in the program, I would be very cautious. This is asking for faculty to fail.

Just on the internship front, my DoT worked really hard to help my cohort of 6 navigate the process successfully (we were all very happy with our placements) and they had nearly a decade of experience in that role so the ~20 or so LaSalle students hoping to secure internships next year are likely going to be at a significant disadvantage, which is shameful.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

What a dumpster fire.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Wow. Having served in a training director's role, I can't imagine doing so as a newly-graduated psychologist. Heck, I struggled at times even with a few years of experience, including multiple years as training faculty, under my belt.

 

[DynamicDidactic]

I have been hearing through the grapevine that La Salle's program is pure chaos right now, so this is sadly not surprising.

That would parallel LIU-Post.

 

[DynamicDidactic]

I think that the perverse economic incentives that involve maximizing number of students being overcharged tuition to attend a program staffed by minimal numbers of faculty are starting to catch up with some of these programs.

I do not blame the students, they may not know better. I do not blame the administration, they are doing their jobs to increase enrollments and cut overhead. I do blame the faculty within the program. They are the only ones that are informed enough, have enough power, and can fight against the administration. It may be risky but to sit back and let it happen is potentially unethical.

Of course, perhaps we are missing some information and the job would be easier than we think (though, I doubt it).

 

[futureapppsy2]

This was mentioned in the LIU-Post thread and then I saw an add for La Salle University, both schools have recruited new hires at assistant professor level to be the directors of their PsyD programs.

Assistant Professor and Director of the Psy.D. Program - HigherEdJobs

Jobs in higher education. Faculty and administrative positions at colleges and universities. Updated daily. Free to job seekers.

www.higheredjobs.com

I cannot imagine being a first year faculty (technically, they don't have to be but none of these ads mention anything about it), having to prep grad courses for the first time, taking on advising, and having to run a program from scratch.

As a faculty applicant, I would definitely stay away. As a student in the program, I would be very cautious. This is asking for faculty to fail.

thoughts?

Anecdotally, I've seen a fair amount of junior faculty serve as DCT at university-based PhD programs, but not first-year faculty (sometimes 2nd or 3rd, though). At the masters-level state u where I was a VAP, we definitely saw 1st and 2nd year faculty being tasked with leading entire master's program themselves, so I could see this happening at a more resource-poor doctoral program.

 

[ClinicalABA]

From other related threads, it does seem like the old formula for predicting number of acceptances per number of offers may not have been so applicable in the times of COVID, resulting in a much larger than expected cohort. This presents a bit of a conundrum- do you staff this level of students as the "new normal", or do you piecemeal it and see if acceptance rates return to "normal"? Sounds like they are in a tough position, not necessarily one they could have predicted. Students are in a similar boat- many may have put things off for a year and don't want to delay things even further by turning down the offer based on the new cohort size.

In regards to new faculty as DOT- I'm not heavily involved in the academic side of things, but I can say that every bad DOT I have encountered was a more senior faculty member.

 

[Shannon2022]

I have been hearing through the grapevine that La Salle's program is pure chaos right now, so this is sadly not surprising.

This is good to know

 

[Spaghettie]

Navigating how to apply to grad school as a first gen and thinking La Salle looked good. Finding this thread is making me reconsider... How does one learn the details on which programs are currently a ****show?

 

[futureapppsy2]

Navigating how to apply to grad school as a first gen and thinking La Salle looked good. Finding this thread is making me reconsider... How does one learn the details on which programs are currently a ****show?

Post about them here and ask! We tend to be a pretty knowledgable group.

 

[summerbabe]

Navigating how to apply to grad school as a first gen and thinking La Salle looked good. Finding this thread is making me reconsider... How does one learn the details on which programs are currently a ****show?

Social media and networking might help gathering initial info.

But the best bet is probably attending interviews and especially any social events (virtual or in person) put on by current students. My program always hosted a pre-interview social at somebody's house and a post-interview meal at a local restaurant that was students only and we would answer any and all questions and share pros/cons about our program.

If the program doesn't offer this, make sure to attend any student panels/Q&As during the interview day and ask for people's email addresses to follow up. If a program doesn't allow contact with current students, that would be a major red flag for me. Good luck!

 

[Spaghettie]

Social media and networking might help gathering initial info.

But the best bet is probably attending interviews and especially any social events (virtual or in person) put on by current students. My program always hosted a pre-interview social at somebody's house and a post-interview meal at a local restaurant that was students only and we would answer any and all questions and share pros/cons about our program.

If the program doesn't offer this, make sure to attend any student panels/Q&As during the interview day and ask for people's email addresses to follow up. If a program doesn't allow contact with current students, that would be a major red flag for me. Good luck!

Thank you for the advice. Perusing the WAMC thread made me realize I am not even remotely competitive for doctorate programs...So I will hold off on meet and greets. I'm a foolish 1st year PsyD at Alliant realizing my mistake (I know I'm sorry I only just found this forum). I'm bailing out before the sunken cost traps me. Would love to have yall bonk me on the head and get me in the right direction to be a more competitive applicant.
Graduated in 2019 with BA in Psych with 3.29 GPA but hear me out. My major GPA is 3.9. My minor in wildlife conservation is what sank my GPA. Spent 1 year as an RA at a Personality Assessment lab but no publications/posters. Spent 3 summers catching frogs lol (again wildlife stuff).
Currently reaching out to research labs seeing if I can get a volunteer/RA position. No clinical experience. Started volunteering for a crisis text line. Dropping out of my PsyD program at the end of this spring semester so I can at least gain some experience from practicum.
Very interested in doing therapy and not afraid of doing research. Just didn't know better as an undergrad. Would love to get into a funded PhD program that is not a hot mess. I'll kindly take all roasting and widsom. 🐸

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Thank you for the advice. Perusing the WAMC thread made me realize I am not even remotely competitive for doctorate programs...So I will hold off on meet and greets. I'm a foolish 1st year PsyD at Alliant realizing my mistake (I know I'm sorry I only just found this forum). I'm bailing out before the sunken cost traps me. Would love to have yall bonk me on the head and get me in the right direction to be a more competitive applicant.
Graduated in 2019 with BA in Psych with 3.29 GPA but hear me out. My major GPA is 3.9. My minor in wildlife conservation is what sank my GPA. Spent 1 year as an RA at a Personality Assessment lab but no publications/posters. Spent 3 summers catching frogs lol (again wildlife stuff).
Currently reaching out to research labs seeing if I can get a volunteer/RA position. No clinical experience. Started volunteering for a crisis text line. Dropping out of my PsyD program at the end of this spring semester so I can at least gain some experience from practicum.
Very interested in doing therapy and not afraid of doing research. Just didn't know better as an undergrad. Would love to get into a funded PhD program that is not a hot mess. I'll kindly take all roasting and widsom. 🐸

As a short answer, you might consider a research-focused masters degree that would 1) help you "make up" for the lower undergrad GPA with a high grad school GPA, and 2) get you some more research experience with a decent change for some kind of output.

If that's not an option, just keep work on getting more research experience (clinical experience isn't particularly important, at least back when I was applying and reviewing apps) and apply broadly to advisors/labs/programs that match your interests.

 

[summerbabe]

Thank you for the advice. Perusing the WAMC thread made me realize I am not even remotely competitive for doctorate programs...So I will hold off on meet and greets. I'm a foolish 1st year PsyD at Alliant realizing my mistake (I know I'm sorry I only just found this forum). I'm bailing out before the sunken cost traps me. Would love to have yall bonk me on the head and get me in the right direction to be a more competitive applicant.
Graduated in 2019 with BA in Psych with 3.29 GPA but hear me out. My major GPA is 3.9. My minor in wildlife conservation is what sank my GPA. Spent 1 year as an RA at a Personality Assessment lab but no publications/posters. Spent 3 summers catching frogs lol (again wildlife stuff).
Currently reaching out to research labs seeing if I can get a volunteer/RA position. No clinical experience. Started volunteering for a crisis text line. Dropping out of my PsyD program at the end of this spring semester so I can at least gain some experience from practicum.
Very interested in doing therapy and not afraid of doing research. Just didn't know better as an undergrad. Would love to get into a funded PhD program that is not a hot mess. I'll kindly take all roasting and widsom. 🐸

Have you considered a clinical master's? If the primary goal is therapy, you could be practicing after 2 years instead of at least 5 years (plus whatever additional prep time is needed to be competitive for PhD admissions).

if I were in your shoes, I'd really consider the cost/benefit of a PhD versus licensable masters as you'd likely be quite competitive for the latter right now without any additional prep (versus the uncertainty that goes into funded PhD admissions, even if you gain additional experience to make yourself more competitive).

is there a fundamental difference to how a PhD/PsyD would positively impact your future career goals that a LCSW/LPC/MFT degree couldn't accomplish or come close to accomplishing?

If you're having trouble objectively answering this question, a MS degree might be a better option to consider and maybe pursue.

If you are able to answer that question very clearly, then I'd recommend developing a very clear and specific plan on how to achieve this goal and get some objective feedback on how realistic it might be so that you don't find yourself in a situation of putting in more time/effort/money without the desired result. Good luck!

 

[Spaghettie]

Thank you for taking the time to address my concerns. Right now I am reading the Insider's Guide to Graduate Programs to better educate myself on which pathways suit my interests.

I've done some reflection on what my goals will be. I'm concerned that a clinical master's, while allowing me to practice, is limiting in the long term and can prevent me from pivoting in the field if I wish. I often hear about burn out from therapy and clinicians using their higher degree to go into consulting, academia, supervising, etc.. A Ph.D. in Counseling/Clinical Psych. provides me with more flexibility in career options and gives me better training in the research/clinical realms.

I'm willing to spend the next 1-2 years throwing myself into research work to show programs I'm capable of graduate level work. Is it possible to simultaneously get a licensable Master's and gain enough research experience to be deemed "worthy" of PhD programs? I'm less concerned about time so much as being crushed by debt, hence my abandoning my PsyD in pursuit of a PhD (they're less expensive right? 😭)

 

[psycho1391]

I cannot imagine being a first year faculty (technically, they don't have to be but none of these ads mention anything about it), having to prep grad courses for the first time, taking on advising, and having to run a program from scratch.

One of my colleagues got hired straight out of postdoc to be director of a psyD program. They have since left since it was a mess of a program.

 

[R. Matey]

I've done some reflection on what my goals will be. I'm concerned that a clinical master's, while allowing me to practice, is limiting in the long term and can prevent me from pivoting in the field if I wish. I often hear about burn out from therapy and clinicians using their higher degree to go into consulting, academia, supervising, etc.. A Ph.D. in Counseling/Clinical Psych. provides me with more flexibility in career options and gives me better training in the research/clinical realms.

The insider's guide will give you this info, but there are a few programs that allow you to go from a clinical master's to a counseling psychology Ph.D. It will likely require moving multiple times because the numbers are dwindling. It's a longer (and perhaps more expensive) road, but it is an option if you want to try out the clinical master's first and decide later if you want a Ph.D. Other counseling psych programs will probably look favorably on a counseling degree and let you transfer some of the coursework. If you're dead set on clinical psych though, then a research master's is the way to go.

Also, no shame in making a mistake. You didn't know what you didn't know and you're correcting an error. My hat is off to you, good poster. Good luck.