A redundant word of advice from a current DPT grad

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Go to the cheaper school if you can. The loans you accrue will feel like a noose around your neck for years to come. I wish someone had stressed this more to me at the time that I was applying and choosing which school to attend, so I just wanted to stress it to anyone in this forum!
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Member7127 said:
Go to the cheaper school if you can. The loans you accrue will feel like a noose around your neck for years to come. I wish someone had stressed this more to me at the time that I was applying and choosing which school to attend, so I just wanted to stress it to anyone in this forum!
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Thank you for the advise.
Would you mind sharing what amount the loans are that feel like a noose? Also, as a recent grad, could you comment on what pay rate/offers were available to you from jobs?

Thanks
 
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I just glanced at your previous posts and back in January of this year, you were waiting to hear back from schools...
By "recent DPT grad" do you mean that you have already graduated?
 
VIllaHJF said:
I just glanced at your previous posts and back in January of this year, you were waiting to hear back from schools...
By "recent DPT grad" do you mean that you have already graduated?
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Yes. My husband will be attending pt school this fall and we've both used this account. Sorry for the confusion. Luckily he's going to a cheap one! (relatively)
 
Member7127 said:
Go to the cheaper school if you can. The loans you accrue will feel like a noose around your neck for years to come. I wish someone had stressed this more to me at the time that I was applying and choosing which school to attend, so I just wanted to stress it to anyone in this forum!
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What school did you recently graduate from?
 
Member7127 said:
Go to the cheaper school if you can. The loans you accrue will feel like a noose around your neck for years to come. I wish someone had stressed this more to me at the time that I was applying and choosing which school to attend, so I just wanted to stress it to anyone in this forum!
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If you don't me asking and sharing in public, how much total debt did you accrue and how long will it take you to pay it off? Thanks!
 
Yea. I have a question. I have an interview for st aug San Marcos. Tuition is 89k and they don't do the grad plus loan. Should I even bother with this school? And yes please inform us of you debt. :)


Sent from my iPhone using SDN Mobile app I will accept any pt school at this point. I cannot sleep
 
Member7127 said:
Go to the cheaper school if you can. The loans you accrue will feel like a noose around your neck for years to come. I wish someone had stressed this more to me at the time that I was applying and choosing which school to attend, so I just wanted to stress it to anyone in this forum!
Click to expand...

Oh yeah, and do you plan to get any type of loan forgiveness, such as working for nonprofit full-time for 10 years?
 
Good topic and good questions, hope Member7127 doesn't leave us hanging like that figurative noose around her neck.
 
No need to be rude, guys. I haven't been on here in a while. Loans = 125k. Salary=65k in California, which isn't stellar. However, I love my job (outpatient ortho) and wouldn't quit for a higher paying one or nonprofit (though I have many friends who've taken that route and are pretty happy). I posted this on a day I made a loan payment, and wasn't in the best of moods. Sorry for those who've been waiting for a response.
 
I understand. I too am about to have to make the decision of attending San Marcos. Did you just start out? That's a good salary starting out. But yea the cost of living there :(


Sent from my iPhone using SDN Mobile app I will accept any pt school at this point. I cannot sleep
 
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Member7127, sorry i was not trying to be rude. I was just trying to be funny. Thanks for answering. That's a lot in loans. I'm expecting to spend $60,000 to $80,000 in DPT school. I haven't checked average costs of DPT schools in a while but I remember reading around $70,000.
 
Member7127 said:
No need to be rude, guys. I haven't been on here in a while. Loans = 125k. Salary=65k in California, which isn't stellar. However, I love my job (outpatient ortho) and wouldn't quit for a higher paying one or nonprofit (though I have many friends who've taken that route and are pretty happy). I posted this on a day I made a loan payment, and wasn't in the best of moods. Sorry for those who've been waiting for a response.
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Sorry if you felt disrespected. How long will it take you to pay off the 125k? Also, since when doing non-profit gets you paid more?
 
Oh wow, I'm expecting double most everyone else. Probably about 180k with undergrad, grad, and now DPT. The plan is to have a plan, lol. I will be commissioning and then working in nonprofit or government facilities like the VA. If things don't work out I'll move to an Indian reservation, :D.
 
Well my around $70,000 estimate was just for DPT school alone. I did not include the cost spent in undergraduate school. I'm sure if I did, it would be as high as $180,000. Yeah having a plan is very important. I have one and it's working for me.
 
It'll take me 15-20 years to pay them off because I also have other loans I'm dealing with. It makes the prospect of having a family harder to imagine. I might just be bitter because I feel as if the trade-off of going to a 2-year DPT school for a huge amount of money and less education (primarily less clinical education) vs. a 3-year for 50K less and much more clinical education, wasn't worthwhile for me. Everyone's different though. Again, I love my job. It's just looking back at my schooling that makes me a tad regretful (and the loans, of course).
 
Member7127 said:
It'll take me 15-20 years to pay them off because I also have other loans I'm dealing with. It makes the prospect of having a family harder to imagine. I might just be bitter because I feel as if the trade-off of going to a 2-year DPT school for a huge amount of money and less education (primarily less clinical education) vs. a 3-year for 50K less and much more clinical education, wasn't worthwhile for me. Everyone's different though. Again, I love my job. It's just looking back at my schooling that makes me a tad regretful (and the loans, of course).
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So I'm guessing you went to UOP??
 
Sorry I've been asking a ton of questions. I'm trying to decide if I should go to USC (#1 program, crazy prestige, Trojan network/family, etc., ultimately looking at ~120k in debt) or CSUN (looking at around 70k in debt after). Pretty sure you will tell me to go to CSUN and sacrifice all prestige.
 
Yes UOP. I won't tell you anything! USC has an awesome program, as does CSUN. It's just a matter of deciding if the prestige is worth the money, and for most people it is. I'm just trying to give advice I never got, so that you can at least take it into account regarding your decisions.
 
Prestige won't guarantee you a higher salary or more attractive job versus someone from a cheaper state school like CSUN. Ask any working DPT if they would pay $50k more for a prestige upgrade. The only people who'll tell you it's worth it are the ones who're trying to justify their own expense.

TL;DR: Go to the cheaper school and work hard. You'll come out just fine and have more savings.
 
USC is 140k in tuition and fees alone. Every PT i've talked to said go to the cheaper school, because it really doesn't matter in the end where you go. And I've heard that that poll that ranked USC #1 is biased and isn't a true measure of quality of PT education. USC probably markets themselves as one of the best because they have the funds to do so, while other schools do not spend the time and money to show how good they are (just my opinion).

You can count on all of the CSUs having an increase in prices because of the state budget crisis, which isn't going away any time soon :(
 
Thanks for all the advice everyone! It's just been really hard for me to decide. I work with some USC PTs who are also faculty at the PT program, and I've gotten close to many of them. I think it would be awesome to have them as teachers in the program, and it would be a unique experience for me since I would know them on a more personal level than the other students (I would call them by their first names and joke around with them in and out of class, haha). Also, I've worked with USC PT students and have talked with some others at the USC open houses and receptions. Pretty much all of them love the program. The USC health science campus is also 10 mins from my place. CSUN would be a 30 to 40 minute commute (and longer in traffic) and may end up annoying me later on. I wouldn't look forward to the drive after an all-nighter.

Before, the USC class size of 90+ used to really bother me compared to CSUN's 32. However, I've been looking at it as a pro instead of a con lately. I look at it as I'll meet more people and have a larger network. And damn it, it's USC we're talking about!! I'd be so proud to say I graduated from SC!!!!

In the end though, USC really is a lot of money. I used some online loan calculators and found out that if I were to use the Stafford Direct and Grad Plus loans, I would end up paying around 900 bucks a month for the next 25 years. At CSUN, I could use the Stafford Direct loan only, and I could end up paying around 700 a month for 10 years (much better!). And I've heard from many people that CSUN is a great program as well.

So this is my dilemma. I'll keep thinking about it.
 
joeyjukebox said:
Thanks for all the advice everyone! It's just been really hard for me to decide. I work with some USC PTs who are also faculty at the PT program, and I've gotten close to many of them. I think it would be awesome to have them as teachers in the program, and it would be a unique experience for me since I would know them on a more personal level than the other students (I would call them by their first names and joke around with them in and out of class, haha). Also, I've worked with USC PT students and have talked with some others at the USC open houses and receptions. Pretty much all of them love the program. The USC health science campus is also 10 mins from my place. CSUN would be a 30 to 40 minute commute (and longer in traffic) and may end up annoying me later on. I wouldn't look forward to the drive after an all-nighter.

Before, the USC class size of 90+ used to really bother me compared to CSUN's 32. However, I've been looking at it as a pro instead of a con lately. I look at it as I'll meet more people and have a larger network. And damn it, it's USC we're talking about!! I'd be so proud to say I graduated from SC!!!!

In the end though, USC really is a lot of money. I used some online loan calculators and found out that if I were to use the Stafford Direct and Grad Plus loans, I would end up paying around 900 bucks a month for the next 25 years. At CSUN, I could use the Stafford Direct loan only, and I could end up paying around 700 a month for 10 years (much better!). And I've heard from many people that CSUN is a great program as well.

So this is my dilemma. I'll keep thinking about it.
Click to expand...

What is USC tuition ? It can't be more than USA San Marcos


Sent from my iPhone using SDN Mobile app I will accept any pt school at this point. I cannot sleep
 
amaprez said:
prestige won't guarantee you a higher salary or more attractive job versus someone from a cheaper state school like csun. Ask any working dpt if they would pay $50k more for a prestige upgrade. The only people who'll tell you it's worth it are the ones who're trying to justify their own expense.

Tl;dr: Go to the cheaper school and work hard. You'll come out just fine and have more savings.
Click to expand...

+100000
 
joeyjukebox said:
Thanks for all the advice everyone! It's just been really hard for me to decide. I work with some USC PTs who are also faculty at the PT program, and I've gotten close to many of them. I think it would be awesome to have them as teachers in the program, and it would be a unique experience for me since I would know them on a more personal level than the other students (I would call them by their first names and joke around with them in and out of class, haha). Also, I've worked with USC PT students and have talked with some others at the USC open houses and receptions. Pretty much all of them love the program. The USC health science campus is also 10 mins from my place. CSUN would be a 30 to 40 minute commute (and longer in traffic) and may end up annoying me later on. I wouldn't look forward to the drive after an all-nighter.

Before, the USC class size of 90+ used to really bother me compared to CSUN's 32. However, I've been looking at it as a pro instead of a con lately. I look at it as I'll meet more people and have a larger network. And damn it, it's USC we're talking about!! I'd be so proud to say I graduated from SC!!!!

In the end though, USC really is a lot of money. I used some online loan calculators and found out that if I were to use the Stafford Direct and Grad Plus loans, I would end up paying around 900 bucks a month for the next 25 years. At CSUN, I could use the Stafford Direct loan only, and I could end up paying around 700 a month for 10 years (much better!). And I've heard from many people that CSUN is a great program as well.

So this is my dilemma. I'll keep thinking about it.
Click to expand...

You're talking to the wrong people. Try talking to USC grads who have been out 4-5 years. Ask them questions like:
1. Did the debt you incurred make it difficult for you to afford the apartment/condo/home you wanted?
2. Did you have to compromise/delay having a family when you wanted due to your debt?
3. Do you find yourself unable to do the things you wanted to do after graduation (travel, etc.) due to your debt?

USC's tuition is crazy. My opinion - people who pay it for more "prestige" (which probably only matters in southern Californai) are crazy.
 
jesspt said:
You're talking to the wrong people. Try talking to USC grads who have been out 4-5 years. Ask them questions like:
1. Did the debt you incurred make it difficult for you to afford the apartment/condo/home you wanted?
2. Did you have to compromise/delay having a family when you wanted due to your debt?
3. Do you find yourself unable to do the things you wanted to do after graduation (travel, etc.) due to your debt?

USC's tuition is crazy. My opinion - people who pay it for more "prestige" (which probably only matters in southern Californai) are crazy.
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Jesspt
What if the tuition difference is not as great a difference ie 23,000 and when you talk to the grads you know from there they tell you that the quality of education is so much better ...........
I have that dilemma between UF ( University of Florida) and UNF ( North Florida)
UF is about 23,000 more expensive , but a great environment affiliated with a Medical School and teaching hospital UNF tuition and class is smaller but the faculty are transitioning , ( 3 left to go to Va to start a program,) UNF new director is great but not as sure about the other faculty..........UF grads tell me ther is no comparison.......Forum says to pick cheapest schools ......Jess pt do you believe all programs that are accredited are equal in preparing you?
 
angl88 said:
Jesspt
What if the tuition difference is not as great a difference ie 23,000 and when you talk to the grads you know from there they tell you that the quality of education is so much better ...........
I have that dilemma between UF ( University of Florida) and UNF ( North Florida)
UF is about 23,000 more expensive , but a great environment affiliated with a Medical School and teaching hospital UNF tuition and class is smaller but the faculty are transitioning , ( 3 left to go to Va to start a program,) UNF new director is great but not as sure about the other faculty..........UF grads tell me ther is no comparison.......Forum says to pick cheapest schools ......Jess pt do you believe all programs that are accredited are equal in preparing you?
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Most schools are pretty good at preparaing you to pass the NPTE. Don't kid yourself - that is what you are paying tuition for. IF the NPTE pass rates are very similar, and the total costs of attending the program, tuition, fees, cost of living, etc. is as large as $23,000 I would go with the cheaper school EVERY time.

As far as I can tell, you will need two qualities/skills to be a successful health care professional:

1. The ability to appraise relevant scientific literature. This will help you modify your practice patterns as new research comes to light, and will make sure that you aren't treating your patients with outdated interventions and/or following a dogmatic approach to treatment just because that is what your were taught in school. If you do'nt come out of school with this skill, your school has failed you, and you'll fail your patients.

2. The ability to critically reason. I think that generally you are either born with this or not, but there are some students I have had who have developed this with hard work.

Ultimately, it is up to you. If you think that UF can make you $23,000 better at literature appraisal or critical reasoning, go for it. My guess is they can't, and that you're just as likely to pass the NPTE having graduated from UNF as UF.
 
Recent grads at any "prestigious" school didn't attend any other schools but their own, so how can they compare the quality of their school to any other?
 
jesspt said:
Most schools are pretty good at preparaing you to pass the NPTE. Don't kid yourself - that is what you are paying tuition for. IF the NPTE pass rates are very similar, and the total costs of attending the program, tuition, fees, cost of living, etc. is as large as $23,000 I would go with the cheaper school EVERY time.

As far as I can tell, you will need two qualities/skills to be a successful health care professional:

1. The ability to appraise relevant scientific literature. This will help you modify your practice patterns as new research comes to light, and will make sure that you aren't treating your patients with outdated interventions and/or following a dogmatic approach to treatment just because that is what your were taught in school. If you do'nt come out of school with this skill, your school has failed you, and you'll fail your patients.

2. The ability to critically reason. I think that generally you are either born with this or not, but there are some students I have had who have developed this with hard work.

Ultimately, it is up to you. If you think that UF can make you $23,000 better at literature appraisal or critical reasoning, go for it. My guess is they can't, and that you're just as likely to pass the NPTE having graduated from UNF as UF.
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I'm in a huge dilemma as many are. I have an interview next Friday at USA San Marcos. My gut tells me it's pointless, because tuition is so damn expensive. I feel like I should bite the bullet and go BACK to undergrad and take some prereqs for 2 quarters and reapply to all the cheaper schools for 2013. I have zero doubts I would be better off. It's just going through the whole pain of going back to undergrad and doing another ptcas app and asking for LoR AGAIN that almost makes going to USA San Marcos worth it. I honestly believe cheaper schools are harder to get into. The upside to all this is I may get accepted to SBU which is $66k compared to $90+k at USA. I have developed a lot of wisdom about schools and I don't want to ruin my future with debt. If I wanted 200k in debt I would have done like my brother and gone to med school. Jesspt, I have a plan to go to the interview next week, get accepted, and kinda sorta use that as leverage to "bribe" the cheaper school I'm trying to get into. Is this unethical ?


Sent from my iPhone using SDN Mobile app I will accept any pt school at this point. I cannot sleep
 
jesspt said:
As far as I can tell, you will need two qualities/skills to be a successful health care professional:

1. The ability to appraise relevant scientific literature.

2. The ability to critically reason.
Click to expand...

Great post, jesspt. I think those are the required qualities to be successful in life in general, and not just in healthcare. May I add one more "C" to your first two (Curiosity, Critical Thinking) - and that would be Compassion.

To wjs010: you can try using SBU as leverage against USA San Marcos, but there is no guarantee that it'll work. Schools have only so much money to use for scholarships and grants, and when it has been all allocated for, it's gone. I just tried the exact same trick for my daughter who is entering college this fall. It did not work.
 
Last edited:
So yesterday I gave up my spot at USC. It was hard to do, but I am happy with my choice! I don't think I will regret going to CSUN since I felt comfortable at their info sessions and also because I will save a lot of money. They have an International PT elective that I really want to take, and it involves traveling to Vietnam and Guatemala. I am looking forward to all of this. Thank you guys for keeping me sane on SDN!!
 
jblil said:
Great post, jesspt. I think those are the required qualities to be successful in life in general, and not just in healthcare. May I add one more "C" to your first two (Curiosity, Critical Thinking) - and that would be Compassion.

To wjs010: you can try using SBU as leverage against USA San Marcos, but there is no guarantee that it'll work. Schools have only so much money to use for scholarships and grants, and when it has been all allocated for, it's gone. I just tried the exact same trick for my daughter who is entering college this fall. It did not work.
Click to expand...


You can add compassion if you want, but without the other two, you're still a bad clinician. I know a lot of compassionate PTs who I wouldn't let treat my worst enemy.
 
blewis15 said:
According to their website, USC's tuition is $138,753 for the entire 3 year program.
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Please tell me this includes cost of living too. Saint Augustine estimates it'll cost $140k for three years, but that includes COL on top of tuition ($11,000 per trimester). I cannot believe any program charges $50k a year.

Kevin
 
jesspt said:
You can add compassion if you want, but without the other two, you're still a bad clinician. I know a lot of compassionate PTs who I wouldn't let treat my worst enemy.
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Why are they so bad? Is is the school they went to or are they just disinterested? Thanks.

Kevin
 
NewTestament said:
Please tell me this includes cost of living too. Saint Augustine estimates it'll cost $140k for three years, but that includes COL on top of tuition ($11,000 per trimester). I cannot believe any program charges $50k a year.

Kevin
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Nope, that does not include cost of living. That is tuition alone for USC. And that doesn't include mandatory fees per semester, either. With all the mandatory fees, the cost of schooling alone ends up being around $144,000. Insane, huh? Check out this link:

http://pt.usc.edu/sublayout.aspx?menu_id=52&id=68&ekmensel=568fab5c_52_0_68_4
 
NewTestament said:
Why are they so bad? Is is the school they went to or are they just disinterested? Thanks.

Kevin
Click to expand...

Kevin,

They are bad because they cannot critically reason, and have a limited ability to comprehend and apply relevant research. But, they certainly are compassionate and empathize with their patients.

I think there is this misconception that PTs (and other rehab providers) NEED to be compassionate and empathetic caregivers first, and clinician scientists second - "I really just want to help people." Over the years I have been practicing, this is practically code for "I won't/haven't picked up a journal in over a year but my patients like me so I am doing a good job." Therapists and potential therapists for whom this is true tend to be driven by the reward of their patients feeling as though their therapist understands/empathizes with them. This doesn't drive the therapist to pursue a better way to treat patients, it drives them to be more compasionate/undertanding and empathetic, in order to "help" their patients.

I think the best clinicans are inherently good at critical reasoning and have a strong interest in pursuing further knowledge in the foundational sciences relevant to PT, i.e. nueroscience, anatomy, physiology, etc. It is this drive that sets them up to best deal with their patients' problems, which 99% of the time is pain. Treating the patient with a science-based approach best sets up the the clinican and the patient to achieve the paramount goal -reducing the patient's pain. The patient's gratitude (and feeling that you understand them/their condition and are empathetic) comes as a by-product of achieving the primary goal, and is not the end-goal in and of itself.

Do you understand the diffence, or have I not explained my self well?

And, sorry to hi-jack the thread a bit.
 
:xf:The patient's gratitude (and feeling that you understand them/their condition and are empathetic) comes as a by-product of achieving the primary goal, and is not the end-goal in and of itself.

Do you understand the diffence, or have I not explained my self well?

And, sorry to hi-jack the thread a bit.[/QUOTE]

Great Point and explained well............only difference is I think that providing evidenced based best practice is crucial to the best outcome ....but .empathy is not always a guaranteed by product I think that is an additional skill .........I have seen some of the best physicians, skilled surgeon but bedside manner did not exist .......and patients were afraid to ask questions or express a fear and I think if a patient does not feel able to speak up that can effect an outcome
 
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