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a way around schools seeing where you applied

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - MD' started by drago, Jul 20, 2001.

  1. drago

    drago Member
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    in your envelope you can state which program you are applying for, eliminating the need for the list to confirm if you're EDP or whatever. Also, KINKO'S has this white out tape (comes off super easy) that can cover anything and be xeroxed. it doesn't look like you tampered with it whatsoever. bottom line, they have absolutely no need to know where else you are applying to other than to use it against you. if they need info like which program you are applying to, send them that info and that info only.
     
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  3. praying4MD

    praying4MD 2K Member
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    Even with the white out option though, the schools with still be able to gauge HOW MANY schools you have applied to. Also, all you have to do is turn the sheet of paper over to see clearly what schools you have designated. On another note, we should *definitely* get a refund for all the schools that are requesting this. Remind me again: what exactly am I paying AMCAS to do? :rolleyes: :confused:
     
  4. Amy B

    Amy B I miss my son so much
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    Just out of curiousity, why do you care if the other schools see where you applied?
     
  5. Popoy

    Popoy SDN Super Moderator
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    I would assume that sincerity of going to that particular school may become an issue....
     
  6. 8675309

    8675309 Member
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    the schools are asking for your AMCAS application, the list of schools is NOT part of that it is for your records only, ergo you don't have to include it when you send your printed copy to them

    the problem is that it's a double-edged sword, if you send a list of the schools your applying to there might be a bias against you for whatever reason, if you don't send it in they might get mad about that

    I say don't send it in, Im not and if they have a problem with that, tough
     
  7. Smoke This

    Smoke This Sweet cuppin' cakes!
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    Word.

    I applied to 30 AMCAS schools myslef. I have preferences, of course, but in this situation you take what you can get. I can think of convincing reasons to apply to every school on my list, and I would attend any of the schools on my list if it came down to it. But all the same, no way in he11 I'm sending the list along with my paper copy!
     
  8. drago

    drago Member
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    ahh, i already thought of this. just white out tape AFTER the school that wants those pages sent. for school x comes in the middle of my list, then school x will get a list of it plus all the schools before it. if yale does this (being last in the list) have no fear. if you applied to as many schools as i did yale doesn't show up on the second page of the list. only send them this page. we must be creative.
     
  9. md2be06

    md2be06 Senior Member
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    damn Smoke This, 30 schools? That's like 1K for the primary app alone. Hope you have deep pockets cause those secondary fees aren't exactly cheap. Well, I'm not sending in the page with all my designated schools. Simply write a generic letter for all the schools stating that you are either applying to their MD program of their MD/PHD program. That should suffice. As for the section that follows the list of schools with questions regarding institutional action, felony convictions, previous matriculations, etc, these are usually asked in the secondary applications anyway. that's my opinion. med schools have never known where applicants were applying in the past, and they don't need to know this year.
     
  10. sandflea

    sandflea Senior Member
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    haven't tried to do this but here's an idea...

    is it possible to delete every school from your list *except* the one that you are printing the app out for, and just not save your changes when you exit (or go back and add all the schools back in before you exit). if i remember correctly the app didn't have to be 'completed' in order to be printed. you'll have to print out the app several times that way and make a whole bunch of changes, plus it will make it look like you're only applying to one school (actually that might work in your favor), but at least it would solve the question of whether you're applying to MD or MD/PHD programs or whatever.

    just a thought...
     
  11. TwoSteveSquared

    TwoSteveSquared Senior Member
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    If you want to get sneaky, you could always manipulate this section to your favor.

    For example, you are applying to U of Chicago, so you remove Yale, Harvard, and UCSF, leave Chicago Med, throw in a couple state schools, walla, now U of Chicago might think they are your first choice. Of course this is highly unethical and about as cool as faking URM status, but, hey, drastic times call for drastic mearsures.

    Oh, before a bunch of people slam me for this, don't worry I'm not really gonna do it, just had a naughty thought. ;)
     
  12. Denilson

    Denilson Senior Member
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    they know we apply to any schools, and they know it's none of their business unless they ask us directly...
     
  13. meikalulu

    meikalulu Junior Member

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    that sounds like a lot of work for nothing--i was asked in EVERY interview where else i applied---it's hard to come up with a good way of avoiding answering the question since its usually prefaced with--"well i know that you don't have to share this information with us, but out of curiosity, where else did you apply/have you been accepted". i was truly shocked at how many interviewers asked this (every one) and i pretty much just answered by listing one or two other schools and then restating why school x was my top choice and a perfect fit for me! no one asked how many schools i applied to.
     
  14. gower

    gower 1K Member
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    The medical schools do not know, and have never known, where else you apply to. AMCAS does not give them that information and never has.

    If you are asked that question at an interview it is only because of the curiosity of the interviewer, who actually doesn't know and is usually advised against asking. THAT is why the interviewer said "you don't have to tell me."

    If you are a really strong candidate it is in your best interest to let the interviewer know; some interviews are, after a few perfunctory questions, actually recruiting interviews. Let them know they have competition for you to attend their medical school.

    Even if a medical school were to know that you have already been accepted elsewhere, and that happens later in the application cycle, if they want to make you an offer, they will and leave it to you to decide where you want to go.

    The only word to describe what so many applicants worry about, such as medical schools knowing where else they applied, is paranoia, resulting from fear and having no knowledge or insight into the whole process.

    For the record, and for those who wonder why I can be so forthright with some of my answers, I am not and have never been a premedical student. I am, however, an insider.
     
  15. Smoke This

    Smoke This Sweet cuppin' cakes!
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    The natural follow-up question to this is, Who are you, then?

    Are you an AMCAS operative in deep cover? :rolleyes:
     
  16. kris

    kris Senior Member
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    Uh oh, Gower, I think you may have misunderstood.

    You realize the question arose because of the end-around applicants can use to apply to some schools, namely, sending to the med school a home-printed AMCAS form.

    Unfortunately the home-printed version has the list of schools on pages with other pertinent AMCAS application info.

    So I think these guys realize that whenever AMCAS finally gets around to transmitting, those AMCAS-transmitted apps won't divulge their list of schools; however, in using the end-around that information is just right there on the printout.
     
  17. grasshopper

    grasshopper Senior Member
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    Regardless of who you are, I'm wondering why you say to emphasize to interviewers that you're applying to many other schools if you think you're competitive at their school. It would seem to me that that fact would be obvious to them (look how many schools we're all applying to!), and it would be more important to show them that you're generally interested in their school specifically, lest they decide not to accept you because you're likely to turn them down. But I *am* just a pre-med, rather than an "insider" like yourself, so I really have no clue. :) :)
     
  18. kris

    kris Senior Member
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    As for being asked about other schools, I went ahead and mentioned a few. In my case I agree that they were scoping out the competition.

    I remember when I answered that question at my first choice school, my interviewer mumbled a couple of times, "That's a really good school. That's a really good school."

    But I didn't panic :), and I got accepted.

    People choose 'lower ranked' schools, like I did, for a number of personal reasons. I don't think the interviewers assume you'll choose a school just based on the numbers. And naturally, we all hope they don't choose applicants just based on the numbers. ;)
     
  19. Barton

    Barton Senior Member
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    No one has yet answered the question "why do you care"? The schools can ask if they want. What are you going to do, refuse to answer? I'm pretty sure that no school thinks you're only applying there. They've all seen it before. Also, why risk jeopardizing your chances by trying to be sneaky? For the record, I sent my full list to the two schools that have requested my AMCAS app. I say if you're going to omit the list, you should call or email the school to confirm that it's kosher, or else openly state that you omitted it in an attached letter. Just my $.02.
     
  20. Luminox

    Luminox Member
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    Because right below the felony action part it says "The list of medical schools is provided here for your information. The schools to which you apply do not receive such a list of all schools you have designated..." So i figure leaving it out would be the same thing as them getting the app. without the schools. Is my thinking wrong here?

    Lumi


     
  21. praying4MD

    praying4MD 2K Member
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    When you go to print, couldn't you just highlight everything you want to appear (exclude the med school list) go to print options and then choose to print "selection only"? I think it'll work.
     
  22. Vader

    Vader Dark Lord of the Sith
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    This is a particularly silly discussion. The schools all know that you aren't only applying to their school. Remember, they go through rounds of admissions each year, so they have seen all this before. Sometimes you have to just stop and put yourself in their shoes. Why might an interviewer like to know? Maybe he/she is trying to assess the relative quality of schools you are applying to (and at which you are getting interviews), and by deduction the quality of applicant you are. It is usually in your best interest as an applicant to be honest. I was asked the question frequently at interviews and it didn't bother me to tell them where else I applied. In fact, it probably made me look like a more competitive applicant. I got into some lower ranked schools even though they had asked where else I was applying. Look at it this way: why would med schools shoot themselves in the foot by NOT trying to admit and recruit the best applicants?

    To make a long story short: it does not matter if you tell them where else you are applying. However, I will say that I recommend NOT altering/omitting information on your AMCAS, as that violates the authenticity of the document and thus jeopardizes your application. I know it's hard not to get somewhat paranoid while going through this stressful admissions process. But try to take a step back and look at things objectively. Believe me, it tests your sanity, but you'll be glad you saved it in the end! :D
     
  23. gower

    gower 1K Member
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    For SmokeThis and others who are curious, I am a recently retired Professor of Biology, and was a premed advisor for 32 years, before AMCAS was even born. Like many advisors, I attended professional meetings with admissions officers, not only from medical schools but the other doctoral health professions schools. I know many admissions deans personally and I have often called on behalf of my students, as have other advisors. Advisors are privy to information that is unknown to others except admissions personnel.

    I always suggest speaking to advisors, whether you like them personally or not. I also must say that many of my former colleagues do not share my philosophy of being proactive on behalf of students, but many others are like me. Other advisors get such little support from their colleges that they can't do th job properly. I learned that having high grades and high MCAT scores is not always the hallmark of someone who will become a top-flight physician. There are other signs, too many and too complex to detail here. Medical schools know this as well.

    Like any human, I make errors of judgement, understanding and prophecy. On the whole, I have been correct more often than not.

    It is not necessary to have a medical education to know how to deal with admission to medical school or any other health professions school. Many admissions people are not MDs.

    I am well aware of the opinion that students have of premedical advisors and sometimes it is justified. Would you make a blanket condemnation of all physicians because of the bad attitudes, misdeeds and errors of some? I don't.

    For many reasons, I have never been a premed and never had the slightest interest in being a physician. Beginning early in high school my interest was always biology, specifically genetics, systematics and evolution. I never did and still do not look down my nose at those who choose other professions. An outstanding characteristic of being human is diversity and understanding that one's own profession or occupation is not necessarily superior to, or suitable for, others. It takes all kinds, especially including non-scientists and physicians, to make a society work, and we should welcome that.

    I say this because I am tired of hearing that biology teachers teach only because they did not get into medical school. Premedical students ought to be thankful that there are all those dumb PhDs who became dumb professors and didn't compete for the available seats. And yet, many have contributed through research to what enables physicians to work their magic.

    I liked my students, even the ones most faculty heartily despised. There are a few physicians out there who think they were accepted to medical school because of their good looks, charm and brilliance. I know better. I also know that some of those who just squeaked into medical school became excellent physicians, often enough better than the science aces. The medical schools know that too.

    I regret having written so much but venting is always good as long as we move on after getting it out of our system.

    Follow the three Rs: Respect for self, respect for others, responsibility for all your actions. Take into account that great love and great achievements involve great risks. [I wish I could let you believe I said that, but it is among the aphorisms that the Dalai Lama offered on the arrival of the new millenium.] I also like his "Remember that not getting what you want is sometimes a wonderful stroke of luck." That is a lesson hard to appreciate when you are looking with high hopes to the future you have chosen.

    All of you, have a happy and satisfying life.
     
  24. Smoke This

    Smoke This Sweet cuppin' cakes!
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    Gower, thank you very much for your reply. I assumed already from the mature tone of your posts and from your obvious knowledge that you had to be at least a matriculant or even a physician. Now I learn that you have been a premedical advisor and professor of biology, which adds even more credence to your posts.

    Thank you for reminding all of us how crucial premedical advisors are. Their insight into the process and aid in all parts of preparation for medicine are truly indispensable. I hope everyone keeps your words in mind; you obviously have quite a lot of knowledge to impart to us yet.
     
  25. Jonny-5

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    Why not just "cut" out the entire Designated Schools list. If you send the school an application it is inherent in your action that you are applying there. This way avoids the perception that theirs is the sole school to which have applied.

    I haven't done any of these things yet. . .
    Just my $.02
    Thanks :)
     
  26. Luminox

    Luminox Member
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    Jon,
    you mean you deleted all of them EXCEPT that particular school, right? I didn't really think of this - i may just include a quick note on top saying "applicant to the MD program" or some schnat.

    lumi

     
  27. Jonny-5

    Jonny-5 Member
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    I didn't know about MCW's request. However, it still seems odd as most of the schools that have contacted me about bypassing AMCAS have an entirely different supplemental application for MD/PhD. With these schools you send in this MD/PhD app. with the supplemental for regular admission.

    Like I said before, have not taken any action yet as this whole mess is very confusing. I am sure that including just the school you are applying to and program type (MD/PhD - PhD categories etc) is fine and probably what I will do as well.

    Adios
     
  28. pillbug

    pillbug Senior Member
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    For all those concerned about schools showing up on the primary. I actually called Baylor and Einstein today and asked them about the designated school section. They are completely fine w/ a photocopy of the page so that only their school appears on that page.
     
  29. saffron

    saffron Senior Member
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    i just left out everything after the classes section

    since the classes went onto the top of a page and the designated schools started at the bottom, i cut that page, then glued the top half to a blank sheet of paper, then photocopied it, so it looks like a whole sheet of paper (not cut in half), but only my classes show.

    the only problem i can see with this is that it leaves out the small part about institutional action, felony convictions, etc. i think im just going to let this go for now. im sure the schools are requesting apps early so they can look at important stuff like grades, extracurrics, etc. and are not going to be too concerned with felony convictions on the printout we send them...once they get the official copy from AMCAS, i figure they can check and make sure im not a felon :)

    so that solves the problem...can anyone think of flaws in this system?
     

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