A word to the wise

[NewNameForGoogleBot]

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I see alot of people on this board and at my school appying to 20+ schools (some even 30+). If you have yet to submit your application, do not make this mistake. It is a waste of money and you WILL regret it.

Pick no more than 10-12 schools that you actually want to go to. This is not so hard to do. Eliminate the ones in places you don't want to live. Look at the cost of each school carefully. Then pick a MAXIMUM 3-4 schools you might not get into, 3-4 you probably will, and 3-4 where you are almost 100%. Be realistic and force yourself to cut out schools instead of just throwing in a few more for good measure. You will end up more educated about the schools you apply to if you do some research before applying.

The only exception I see to this is someone who has below a 3.0 and/or very low DAT scores and is just hoping for a break. But even then I would reccomend applying to the 10 schools you think will give you the best chance and pocket the rest of the money. You'll need it for interviews (trust me, I just shelled out $400 for my ticket to NC).😱

 

[aphistis]

Once again, just for emphasis, unless you have spectacular GPA and DAT scores, there's no such thing as a "100% chance of admission school." Otherwise, I agree with jaap completely.

 

[TCB]

I was going to apply to 15 schools myself, because my grades aren't that good. However, last night I took off three schools from my list. The first school because I don't have their average GPA as for now, second school because they only take 18% out- of -state students and the third one because there is no way I would enjoyed living in Iowa...

I am left to 12 schools, I might take off two other schools from my list, depending on how well I do this semester .

 

[vishal_k32801]

Thats a very practical thinking..Well said Mr. Jaap

 

[mcataz]

Honestly, if you have below a 3.0 and low DAT scores, we are limited to a certain number of schools anyway. If you have stats like this, you might as well not apply to any public school that you aren't a state resident of. That's alone eliminates a lot of potential schools. And there aren't that many private schools. I think I applied to every private school with the exception of maybe 5 of them and I still ended up only applying to 14 schools. Of those 14, only two of them were reach schools.

 

[mathnerd]

I must conject that I'm not lucky enough to say that I have 100% at any school. I live in Utah & have pretty fierce competition for the in-state program. But!!! I agree with limiting the number to no more than 15.

 

[NewNameForGoogleBot]

Originally posted by mcataz
Honestly, if you have below a 3.0 and low DAT scores, we are limited to a certain number of schools anyway. If you have stats like this, you might as well not apply to any public school that you aren't a state resident of. That's alone eliminates a lot of potential schools. And there aren't that many private schools. I think I applied to every private school with the exception of maybe 5 of them and I still ended up only applying to 14 schools. Of those 14, only two of them were reach schools.

My point exactly!

 

[ItsGavinC]

Great post. I've been saying this since day one back in October of 2001. You'll find that very few people will listen to you, however.

 

[jojo88]

If you are good enough to be seriously considered for a spot in the first place, I doubt the number of schools you applied to would be the "deal breaker".

If you are borderline, one could argue both ways...1) it shows lack of deire to attend any one school, 2) it shows that you are doing everything in your power to realize your dream. Just do whats feels right, you can explain in the interview (since I also doubt someone would not offer an interview just because you applied to many schools).

If you are below borderline, you probably wouldn't have gotten in anyway.

Dunno, just some off the cuff remarks.

 

[NewNameForGoogleBot]

I'm not worried about how it looks. More interested in the time and money involved in applying to too many schools.

 

[mcataz]

Originally posted by jojo88
If you are good enough to be seriously considered for a spot in the first place, I doubt the number of schools you applied to would be the "deal breaker".

Not true. We had a guy from my program apply to all dental schools last year. He had a 4.0 GPA and an 18 DAT. He only got into Tufts. Most schools probably saw him and though he would be accepted by most other schools. So rather than give up a spot to a student who would most likely go elsewhere, they decided to reject him. Think about it. If you are an adcom and you see a guy with a 4.0 apply to all 50 schools, you are thinking to yourself: "This guy isn't serious about any school and he is just playing the field."

If you are borderline, one could argue both ways...1) it shows lack of deire to attend any one school, 2) it shows that you are doing everything in your power to realize your dream. Just do whats feels right, you can explain in the interview (since I also doubt someone would not offer an interview just because you applied to many schools).

But you are forgetting the difference between private and public schools. State schools reserve up to 90% of their class for state residents. Students with great GPA/DAT's have a difficult time getting into state schools in which they aren't a resident. It's that much harder for those with low stats. It's not worth your money to apply to a school in which your odds are less than 2%.

If you are below borderline, you probably wouldn't have gotten in anyway.

Not true. Private schools take students from all over the country. They don't have state quotas so your odds of getting into a private school are a much higher. That's why you should focus your efforts toward private schools if you have low stats.

Perhaps it's me but it seems like a matter of common sense.

 

[ItsGavinC]

Your post was right on the money.

MANY people waste time each year applying to state schools.

If your GPA is even somewhat mediocre then you aren't going to get into a state school.

Save your time and your $$ and your sanity.

 

[Bickle]

Wow! I thought I was applying to a lot of schools (13)! I cant believe people would apply to 30+ schools!! Especially if their stats are low. You can almost forget about state schools if this is the case for many of you 30+ applicants.

 

[jojo88]

OK, we all "know this guy who...", but I am interested in the reality of this issue...so far we just have opinions, which I agree, APPEAR to be common sense...BUT may not be THAT common.

So...I called several schools (2 state 1 private) and asked them if the number of schools we apply to is considered even a little. EACH one said no. They said that unless you are applying for a second time, they don't even know how many schools we apply to (unless we tell them, at which point we can explain our reasons)...I again asked if it could hurt us in any way, and they again said no.

Now, even though they said this, I do not doubt that may be one or two admissions people out there who would negativly mark us for applying to a lot of schools...BUT, I doubt that if this issue really were a DECIDING factor in any way, they would outright deny it.

I agree research and odds must play a game in your decision on which schools to apply, but I do not believe the actual number should be of concern.

 

[Bickle]

Originally posted by jojo88
OK, we all "know this guy who...", but I am interested in the reality of this issue...so far we just have opinions, which I agree, APPEAR to be common sense...BUT may not be THAT common.

So...I called several schools (2 state 1 private) and asked them if the number of schools we apply to is considered even a little. EACH one said no. They said that unless you are applying for a second time, they don't even know how many schools we apply to (unless we tell them, at which point we can explain our reasons)...I again asked if it could hurt us in any way, and they again said no.

Now, even though they said this, I do not doubt that may be one or two admissions people out there who would negativly mark us for applying to a lot of schools...BUT, I doubt that if this issue really were a DECIDING factor in any way, they would outright deny it.

I agree research and odds must play a game in your decision on which schools to apply, but I do not believe the actual number should be of concern.

I am not disputing your point, however when a person with a gpa of 3.0 applies to an out of state school, they can pretty much burn the extra money they put into that application. It makes no monetary sense to apply to a school that you have no chance of being accepted to. Thats just my opinion.

 

[NewNameForGoogleBot]

Originally posted by jojo88
OK, we all "know this guy who...", but I am interested in the reality of this issue...so far we just have opinions, which I agree, APPEAR to be common sense...BUT may not be THAT common.

So...I called several schools (2 state 1 private) and asked them if the number of schools we apply to is considered even a little. EACH one said no. They said that unless you are applying for a second time, they don't even know how many schools we apply to (unless we tell them, at which point we can explain our reasons)...I again asked if it could hurt us in any way, and they again said no.

Now, even though they said this, I do not doubt that may be one or two admissions people out there who would negativly mark us for applying to a lot of schools...BUT, I doubt that if this issue really were a DECIDING factor in any way, they would outright deny it.

I agree research and odds must play a game in your decision on which schools to apply, but I do not believe the actual number should be of concern.

Once again, I'm not taking this from a standpoint of how it will look to schools, only how it will look on your bank statement and the insane amount of time wasted by applying to too many schools. But if the number (i.e. the money) is not a concern for you, spend away! But in the end you can only take one acceptance. I wish I had big enough balls to apply only to my first choice school.

 

[swiminh2o]

Jaap,

May I ask what your top choice is? I am hoping for UW or UT San Antonio but havn't heard from either one yet.....

Swim

 

[jojo88]

Well said Jaap...I guess there is a correlation between ball size and the number of schools one applies to...I'll bet I have the smallest balls around...

 

[ShawnOne]

My man Perfect3434 just got an interview invite from UConn, one of the top rated public schools in the country (board scores). Maybe its not always a waste of money...

 

[NewNameForGoogleBot]

UNC - I have my interview in just over 2 weeks!

 

[NewNameForGoogleBot]

Originally posted by ShawnOne
My man Perfect3434 just got an interview invite from UConn, one of the top rated public schools in the country (board scores). Maybe its not always a waste of money...

A notable exception, and very cool, congrats Perfect

 

[UBTom]

Well, there are state-funded dental schools that do accept more out-of-staters because they have a "national" bent like UMich but there are more schools that don't than schools that do...

Most other state schools would basically hand your head back to you and say "thanks for trying. Next!" 😛

Off the top of my head, if you are an out-of-stater who does not have above-average to exceptional stats, don't even THINK of applying to the following:

Stony
UMDNJ
Maryland
Ohio
Puerto Rico
Kentucky
UT Houston
UT San Antonio

Ditto goes for the following, unless you are an applicant whose home state has no dental school and/or your state participates in an interstate education program like WICHE:

UCLA
UCSF
Colorado
Washington

Feel free to add to the list!

 

[Bickle]

Here's a question I've been dying to ask:

What if you are a resident of say Alaska. DOesn't that applicant get the short end of the stick because there is no dental school there? I know that in canada, residents of the yukon and the northwest territories are considered residents of all the canadian provinces. SO they are treated as in-province applicants at every candian school that they apply to, is this the case for alaskian residents?

 

[UBTom]

Alaska participates in the WICHE network that I mentioned above:

http://wiche.edu/SEP/PSEP/dent.htm

So Alaska applicants do receive preferential treatment at those schools listed there on the WICHE website.

HTH!

 

[tinker bell]

Pantera of this board is from NY, and she is my classmate now at UCSF.
We also have one guy from Vancouver, BC.

So, if you have an outstanding DAT, GPA, do not hestitate to try your chance at UCSF. You might be surprised when luck knocks on your door.

 

[PERFECT3434]

the thing is, i wish i knew about SDN when i was sending my AADSAS app.

i guess the reason why many (avg stat students) apply to 30+ schools is that they think they are maximizing their chances of acceptance. i now realize that applying to ohio, maryland, and some other out of states was a waste of money.

when i chose many schools, i knew that they don't take many out of state people. however, i thought to myself, maybe i would be one of those few people who may get accepted there. i didn't know that schools just hunt for excellent DAT scores and then consider the rest of your app.

well, its too late now.

i still think that it doesn't hurt to apply to schools out of state that ecourage people from out of state like INDIANA, UMKC (maybe not anymore), UConn, etc etc

 

[mcataz]

Originally posted by ShawnOne
My man Perfect3434 just got an interview invite from UConn, one of the top rated public schools in the country (board scores). Maybe its not always a waste of money...

Not suprised about Indiana since they are receptive to out of state applicants. However, getting an interview at Uconn is definitely out of the ordinary for those with low statistics applying out of state.. Congratulations. Yes, a notable exception but still worthy of praise.

 

[mcataz]

Originally posted by UBTom
Well, there are state-funded dental schools that do accept more out-of-staters because they have a "national" bent like UMich but there are more schools that don't than schools that do...

Most other state schools would basically hand your head back to you and say "thanks for trying. Next!" 😛

Off the top of my head, if you are an out-of-stater who does not have above-average to exceptional stats, don't even THINK of applying to the following:

Stony
UMDNJ
Maryland
Ohio
Puerto Rico
Kentucky

Ditto goes for the following, unless you are an applicant whose home state has no dental school and/or your state participates in an interstate education program like WICHE:

UCLA
UCSF
Colorado
Washington

Feel free to add to the list!

Residents of states that participate in WICHE are given preference but they aren't regarded in the same manner as in-state residents. So the answer is no. For example, Arizona residents aren't given the same status as California residents just because AZ is a WHICHE state and it lacks a public dental school.

 

[UBTom]

Mcataz:

My point is that WICHE participants have a far better chance of being considered, than if you are from east of the Mississippi!

For example, a classmate of mine from MA applied to Colorado-- They sent his application right back to him, along with his application fee check, and a letter that says they will consider only applications from western and midwestern applicants.

Basically, the difference is between being considered vs. flat-out rejection!

 

[marshall]

you know... after reading the many posts and all of the hearsay and all the hundscheisse i must say that

if you want to be one of the people that other people talk about, take chances

okay you could play it safe and you will save some cash... but what about that great school you really want to go to but really think you have no shot? what are the real disadvantages to applying there? don't listen to all these people going into or already done with the application process saying that you shouldn't do it and that dental school is so hard to get into and all this garbage.

sure, dental school is hard to get into. but i know two people at UCSF with < 3.0 undergrad GPA with no post bac. I know many people at Columbia in the same situation with even slightly lower GPA. i know a person at harvard with a 3.1 undergrad. so IF YOU WANT TO BE ONE OF THESE PEOPLE, TAKE CHANCES. in the long run there is no price difference. stay late one night and do an extra endo or take on another kid with crooked teeth and you've just paid for your risk. these exceptional people did not cure oral cancer or finish up a caries vaccine. they aren't stupid either but you probably aren't either.

i personally just called one of my state schools and told them my 3.0-3.1 GPA and they said I would still be competitive. so don't listen to all this crap on SDN and get in the dumps about it.
if anything, you basically have the opportunity to make up for four years of mediocrity (to some extent) with one summer of studying for the DAT. that's the best deal in the world.

 

[UBTom]

Marshall:

I think Jaap's original point is to be pragmatic about your application-- Yes, apply to a couple of "reach" schools, but don't apply to 20 "reach" schools!

I happen to agree. That is definitely sound advice and not "crap." 😛