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Georgia18

Pre-Dental
10+ Year Member
Hey Guys,


I was recently looking into anesthesiologist assistant school was wondering if anyone knew what type of gpa people usually have that get accepted. I currently have a 3.47 gpa and have a lot of experience hours with all of my pre-reqs completed except maybe one. Thanks!
 
What is the list of states that you suspect will begin to accept AAs? There are some 18 states now as I understand it, how many do you think will follow and when? (I know it's just a guess).
 
FireCloud9 said:
What is the list of states that you suspect will begin to accept AAs? There are some 18 states now as I understand it, how many do you think will follow and when? (I know it's just a guess).
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The national organization is currently working on Utah and Maryland. I don't personally know of any other legislation that has officially been presented but I'm confident that the behind the scenes action is taking place in several other states. Our classmates have been working with some people in Idaho. It's a long process, however, and usually takes a few failures before a success. We just got blasted out of Maryland with a huge opposition by the Maryland Assoc of Nurse Anesthetists, but I hope we try again.
 
Endee said:
The national organization is currently working on Utah and Maryland. I don't personally know of any other legislation that has officially been presented but I'm confident that the behind the scenes action is taking place in several other states. Our classmates have been working with some people in Idaho. It's a long process, however, and usually takes a few failures before a success. We just got blasted out of Maryland with a huge opposition by the Maryland Assoc of Nurse Anesthetists, but I hope we try again.
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That's no surprise. They don't want the competition. Nurses groups are very powerful lobbyists. In some states they're pretty weak, but in other states, like California, sweet jesus! And their actions have little to do with ensuring quality patient care, but like the teachers union here, more about themselves than patients or students respectively. Can't beat them, join them. 🙂

Are you facing powerful opposition in Utah?
 
FireCloud9 said:
That's no surprise. They don't want the competition. Nurses groups are very powerful lobbyists. In some states they're pretty weak, but in other states, like California, sweet jesus! And their actions have little to do with ensuring quality patient care, but like the teachers union here, more about themselves than patients or students respectively. Can't beat them, join them. 🙂

Are you facing powerful opposition in Utah?
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Last I heard the legislation was in committee and they heard testimony. I don't know what the resistance is like.
 
Would a PA / AA be in higher demand or have better opportunities on the AA side?

The positive side of such a combo is that if they moved outside a state that allows AAs they can be a PA....
 
FireCloud9 said:
Would a PA / AA be in higher demand or have better opportunities on the AA side?

The positive side of such a combo is that if they moved outside a state that allows AAs they can be a PA....
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Emory's program isn't a combined PA/AA, it is a PA to AA. So you have to go through 27 months of PA school and 27 months of AA school. That's 4 and a half years.

But yeah, I guess technically they could have both licenses, but I don't see any real world situation where you would go to PA school and then Emory's PA to AA program.
 
Endee said:
I don't see any real world situation where you would go to PA school and then Emory's PA to AA program.
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how about a pa who later decided they really wanted to do operative anesthesia?
I agree that it would be silly to plan to do both right out of the gate.
I do know 1 np who later did crna who now has a great job using both certs but it wasn't the original plan. he works with an md anesthesia group and covers the o.r., icu, er,and pain clinic. 180k/yr to start with this group several yrs ago( 5 or 6) right out of school. an aa/pa could probably swing the same gig.
 
emedpa said:
how about a pa who later decided they really wanted to do operative anesthesia?
I agree that it would be silly to plan to do both right out of the gate.
I do know 1 np who later did crna who now has a great job using both certs but it wasn't the original plan. he works with an md anesthesia group and covers the o.r., icu, er,and pain clinic. 180k/yr to start with this group several yrs ago( 5 or 6) right out of school. an aa/pa could probably swing the same gig.
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Oh, no doubt having both certifications would be cool and might have an interesting niche in perioperative critical care, for example.. but "later" is the operative word here.. A change of focus after practicing a few years, but consecutively? Might as well have gone to medical school.
 
I stand corrected, I though the Emory program was a dual degree.

I wonder if a PA applying to AA or an AA applying to PA would have an easier time getting admitted....
 
Endee said:
Emory's program isn't a combined PA/AA, it is a PA to AA. So you have to go through 27 months of PA school and 27 months of AA school. That's 4 and a half years.

But yeah, I guess technically they could have both licenses, but I don't see any real world situation where you would go to PA school and then Emory's PA to AA program.
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4.5 years is still less than 7 for MD (4med+3res) and $180k right out of the gate is nothing to sneeze at.
 
FireCloud9 said:
4.5 years is still less than 7 for MD (4med+3res) and $180k right out of the gate is nothing to sneeze at.
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You could make the same without the 2 years in PA school...

Assuming this situation, I think you are only going to be working in one capacity or the other. The only way you are going to make 180 is working as an AA, as this number is well well above the average for PA's. If you're working as an AA, you are in a state where they can work and you are doing something within their job description. Therefore, you're not really using any of the PA.

If you're not in a state where AA's can work, you can't work as an AA and aren't licensed to do anesthesia. You'll be working as a PA and getting paid the salary for a PA.

While the PA education might help you, because of the extra internal medicine/critical care/surgery, etc, the license might not because your job will either be as one or the other.

I think that's just the nuance of the AA profession. I'm interested to hear emedpa's thoughts on this, or jwk if he finds this thread.
 
I think a pa/aa even in a non-aa state would still have more options. an anesthesiologist could hire this person and write them an anesthesia scope of practice as a pa that allowed them basically to function as an aa but call them an "anesthesia pa".
 
emedpa said:
I think a pa/aa even in a non-aa state would still have more options. an anesthesiologist could hire this person and write them an anesthesia scope of practice as a pa that allowed them basically to function as an aa but call them an "anesthesia pa".
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I suppose that's possible. I don't know how the anesthesia legislation is worded though, or the PA legislation.

In general, I think laws for anesthesia providers specify anesthesiologist or CRNA or AA. What about PA's? Does it just say "scope of practice of the supervising physician"? I guess that technically works, but I wonder if it conflicts with the anesthesia law for the state.

Possibly opens that person up to a lawsuit if someone wanted to challenge the legality of the PA performing anesthesia. Then it would be up to the court and/or legislature to figure things out.
 
Endee said:
Does it just say "scope of practice of the supervising physician"? I guess that technically works
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yup, my scope of practice is "evaluation of patients with ambulatory, emergent, and urgent complaints. may not exceed scope of practice of supervising physician or perform procedures not done by sp".(isn't it great when your sp let's you write your own scope of practice.....)
 
Endee said:
I suppose that's possible. I don't know how the anesthesia legislation is worded though, or the PA legislation.

In general, I think laws for anesthesia providers specify anesthesiologist or CRNA or AA. What about PA's? Does it just say "scope of practice of the supervising physician"? I guess that technically works, but I wonder if it conflicts with the anesthesia law for the state.

Possibly opens that person up to a lawsuit if someone wanted to challenge the legality of the PA performing anesthesia. Then it would be up to the court and/or legislature to figure things out.
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There are only two-three states that specifically prohibit PAs from doing anesthesia. Generally the PA scope is generally that of the supervising physician. In theory even in a state with an AA practice act you could use a PA/AA for doing cases you couldn't do with an AA such as conscious sedation cases that aren't done under ACT criteria. The real barrier for PAs doing anesthesia is billing. Only CRNA, AA and physicians can bill for anesthesia. The places that are using PAs in anesthesia lately (at least according to the Emails I get) are in the Federal government (VA BOP etc) and HMOs.

David Carpenter, PA-C
 
I live and work in Michigan currently. I have applied to Emory and believe I have a good shot of getting in for next fall. I would like to return to my home state to work after graduating, but The law currently allows the practice of AA-c's in MI only by physician delegation/request. Is this a better or worst situation to be in than being licenced? If I am better off being in a situation/state that allows licencing is there anything I can do to try and advocate for this in my state so that by the time I graduate I can practice as a licenced AA-c in my state?
 
keregg228 said:
I live and work in Michigan currently. I have applied to Emory and believe I have a good shot of getting in for next fall. I would like to return to my home state to work after graduating, but The law currently allows the practice of AA-c's in MI only by physician delegation/request. Is this a better or worst situation to be in than being licenced? If I am better off being in a situation/state that allows licencing is there anything I can do to try and advocate for this in my state so that by the time I graduate I can practice as a licenced AA-c in my state?
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When employed, it doesn't matter if the state lets you work via delegatory authority or via licensure.

The difference is that licensure is more secure. We want licensure, but we will take delegatory authority if that is all we can get, because that at least means you can work there.

From http://www.anesthetist.org/factsaboutaas/

What is the difference between delegatory authority and licensure?

Licensure for AAs is created by legislation that is enacted and codified into state law or through regulation adopted by the board of medicine.

Delegatory authority may take the form of either recognition and action by the board of medicine or expressed in a delegation enabling statute such as the state's medical practice act. It is well accepted in various medical specialties, including anesthesiology, that the board of medicine may grant a physician the authority to delegate tasks or duties related to the practice of medicine to qualified individuals so long as the physician: 1) remains ultimately responsible to the patient and 2) assures that the individual performing the tasks is qualified to do so. An anesthesiologist seeking to employ AAs under the principle of delegatory authority should seek input from the board of medicine of their specific state.

Licensure for AA practice, although sometimes more difficult to achieve, better defines and anchors the practice of AAs in a state than does the simpler delegatory authority.

In all states AA practice falls under the auspices of the board of medicine. In contrast, nurse anesthetists' practice is regulated by state boards of nursing.
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I understand the difference between licencing and physician delegation and that you can practice as both (having already read the entire anesthesiologistassistant website) I was looking for more information on the differences in malpractice insurance. Whether it makes it more difficult to practice in different settings etc.
Also if we are aiming for licensing is there any group(s) I can join to help advocate for licencing in my state?
 
keregg228 said:
I understand the difference between licencing and physician delegation and that you can practice as both (having already read the entire anesthesiologistassistant website) I was looking for more information on the differences in malpractice insurance. Whether it makes it more difficult to practice in different settings etc.
Also if we are aiming for licensing is there any group(s) I can join to help advocate for licencing in my state?
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Well I really don't know about malpractice. Like I said though, in an actual employment situation, if you have a job under delegation or under license, the working conditions are the same. You wouldn't know the difference unless the state board of medicine decided to take away the delegatory authority then you can't work.
 
It's to bad a PA residency program couldn't be developed so PA's function in the same way as an AA/CRNA and get reimbursed for it....

As an established practitioner in healthcare....seems like it would be an easier battle than the AA's might have.
 
Endee said:
Well I really don't know about malpractice. Like I said though, in an actual employment situation, if you have a job under delegation or under license, the working conditions are the same. You wouldn't know the difference unless the state board of medicine decided to take away the delegatory authority then you can't work.
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Hey i sent you a PM, let me know if you got it 🙂
 
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