VA77

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Doximity | Job Market Shifting for Pharmacy School Grads

Job Market Shifting for Pharmacy School Grads

I won't post the article but you can click the link above to read.

Some interesting quotes from Lucinda Maine who has expressed herself as a hopeless optimist in years past.

1. 1,500 applicant decrease since 2010. She blames this on early admission and students being "debt adverse" to the profession. She says that students are more inclined to go into STEM programs because I guessing they see more of a chance to secure a job after graduation.
2. She says, "Faculty is saying: If you want to aspire to an academic position, it’s almost essential if you’re a clinician, to have a PGY1 and PGY2 residency." I agree with that but she also says applicants "feel pretty confident that they are going to earn six figures when they get out of at least our program in four more years, six years total for some of them". I'm trying to figure out if she has already tacked on the 2 years of residency or is talking about a 0+6 program. It's hard to talk a student who is "debt adverse" into doing 2 years of clinical work at 45k when she is saying that they are going into other programs.
3. "Typically in a class of 100, 85 or more have a defined job in a defined location when they cross the stage." So if I read this right, she is saying that 15% of graduates do not have a job secured at graduation. No surprise.
4. "Some chains are playing games with hours and benefits. Some are not offering full-time positions." Well the majority of positions are in retail and the thought is that transition in the future but no one know if and when that day will be.

I can't believe that she wouldn't address that AACP might consider the fact that too many graduated are currently entering the system. I would think she would want to consider all angles and what can be done. I honestly feel that AACP needs a better champion and someone that isn't looking thru rose colored glasses and has a more pragmatic approach to the profession.
 

giga

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and the last issue is that the clinical health professions aren’t considered to be STEM [science, technology, engineering and mathematics] careers—not medicine, not nursing, not dentistry, not pharmacy. For really bright students, regardless of ethnic characteristics, they are being driven to STEM, STEM, STEM, but a lot of times that’s [seen] as computer science and engineering, and some of the other physical sciences.

So part of our strategic plan is to work with our colleagues across the health professions to make sure that health professions are on the Bureau of Labor Statistics list as a STEM careers.
I find it extremely hard to believe that the reason "really bright students" aren't being driven into pharmacy is because health professions aren't listed as STEM in the BLS. It kind of annoys me that this is even part of their "strategic plan." Adding a "new car" scented air freshener to a car doesn't make the car any newer. Relabeling the pharmacy profession as a STEM career without fundamentally changing the curriculum to prepare students for a career in STEM doesn't make it any more STEM. You aren't fooling anyone (well, at least I would hope not... ugh).
 

nasacort24hr

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"Part of the reason is because health systems are preferentially hiring their residents—that’s the reason why hospitals are offering residencies because it gives them the opportunity to look at the cream of the crop."

Lol, how many resident finished the residency can stay in the training hospital? This is especially true for the large institution like teaching hospitals. They have so many residents each year, but most of them won't be able to stay due to no opening position for full time staff. Especially for PGY2 specialties. Each year you pop one oncology specialty pharmacist, but will you able to keep one each year?
 
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stoichiometrist

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She's trying to sugarcoat the obvious: that more people are going into STEM, e.g. computer science or engineering due to better job prospects and less in student loans to take out. It doesn't have much, if anything to do with early decision.
 

WVUPharm2007

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Glad there is a downtrend.

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Well, the number of graduates is still the same. Which is all that really matters. Though less applicants means lower quality students. Which I'm also fine with. It makes it even easier to outdo the new grads.
 
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Apotheker2015

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4. "Some chains are playing games with hours and benefits. Some are not offering full-time positions."

It's so true. Something needs to happen pronto. I like options. This doesn't look good at all.
 
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gwarm01

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Well, the number of graduates is still the same. Which is all that really matters. Though less applicants means lower quality students. Which I'm also fine with. It makes it even easier to outdo the new grads.
I'm more than happy to compete with an ever growing number of clueless pharmacists. We've all worked with someone who has that glazed eye, head in the clouds kind of attitude where you wonder if they even live in the same reality as you.

The really scary thing is when one of those people gets in charge and throws everything in disarray. They don't understand how the real world works and instead try to implement everything APhA and ASHP tells them.
 

Gombrich12

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Well, the number of graduates is still the same. Which is all that really matters. Though less applicants means lower quality students. Which I'm also fine with. It makes it even easier to outdo the new grads.
I've noticed that a lot of the newer pharmacy students are just sleepwalking their way into school. I ask them about how much they are borrowing and they say $300,000 without much worry in their voice. If your pharmacy program costs $300,000+ there is no way it cannot select for the desperate and dumb. Combine the costs with the rising popularity of 2-year PA programs and pharmacy schools are going to be in big trouble in a few years.
 
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lord999

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Try medicine as well. Medical residency coordinators and faculty are having to take mandated EEO and sensitivity training now. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but there is a feeling that no one's willing to bring up the hard issues anymore with trainees and just socially pass them rather than do the paperwork for the responsible position.

However, I saw what happened to PT's, and I hate what's happening to us along the same lines.
 

PAtoPharm

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Wow, this article is scary. The fact that she's citing some sort of study as being an imminent indicator of a "new shortage" is really just her way of justifying opening more new schools and not calling for any of them to shut down. So glad I got out of pharmacy school when I did. Good luck to everyone out there who didn't get out in time.
 

Rouelle

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My alma mater has cut their P1 enrollment by approximately half this year compared to the last many years. I have no idea why, but in my own little fantasy dream world I like to think that they are offering a responsible response to the market demand.
 

lord999

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My alma mater has cut their P1 enrollment by approximately half this year compared to the last many years. I have no idea why, but in my own little fantasy dream world I like to think that they are offering a responsible response to the market demand.
Or in the case of my place, undergraduates are a chore that's worth getting rid of and with state funding cuts... Everyone wins :).
 
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msweph

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My alma mater has cut their P1 enrollment by approximately half this year compared to the last many years. I have no idea why, but in my own little fantasy dream world I like to think that they are offering a responsible response to the market demand.
Wow, that is impressive....

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My alma mater has cut their P1 enrollment by approximately half this year compared to the last many years. I have no idea why, but in my own little fantasy dream world I like to think that they are offering a responsible response to the market demand.
Heh, doubt it. They probably cut the P1 class in half because there just are not enough "qualified" candidates. If they begin accepting anyone that walks through the door, that would jeopardize their ACPE accreditation status. This is a new trend in Texas schools this year. Get ready for the great pharmacy school purge.
 

Rouelle

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Heh, doubt it. They probably cut the P1 class in half because there just are not enough "qualified" candidates. If they begin accepting anyone that walks through the door, that would jeopardize their ACPE accreditation status. This is a new trend in Texas schools this year. Get ready for the great pharmacy school purge.
Honestly, I don't really mind if that's the reason also.
 
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quickpic007

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Heh, doubt it. They probably cut the P1 class in half because there just are not enough "qualified" candidates. If they begin accepting anyone that walks through the door, that would jeopardize their ACPE accreditation status. This is a new trend in Texas schools this year. Get ready for the great pharmacy school purge.
get me up to speed, in TX they are cutting class size or accepting everyone? Been wanting to move to DFW.
 
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get me up to speed, in TX they are cutting class size or accepting everyone? Been wanting to move to DFW.
I cannot comment too much as I only know from word of mouth of students at these schools. We have 8 schools here currently, 7 of them each push out 100+ PharmD's (1000+ together), the newer school will push out 100+ once they graduate their first class. I only know that TSU has cut their class by about 40% this year, and A&M has cut their enrollment this year by about 15%. I do not know why, I'd like to think that are trying to secure a decent NAPLEX pass rate in the coming years. No word on other schools yet. Job market is tight in all areas except in the valley (South Texas, aka Mexican border).
 
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gwarm01

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I cannot comment too much as I only know from word of mouth of students at these schools. We have 8 schools here currently, 7 of them each push out 100+ PharmD's (1000+ together), the newer school will push out 100+ once they graduate their first class. I only know that TSU has cut their class by about 40% this year, and A&M has cut their enrollment this year by about 15%. I do not know why, I'd like to think that are trying to secure a decent NAPLEX pass rate in the coming years. No word on other schools yet. Job market is tight in all areas except in the valley (South Texas, aka Mexican border).
Maybe they are getting a lot of unqualified applicants? Pharmacy isn't that difficult, but there is a steep learning curve that some people just cannot overcome. Mid-tier students can get through and pass their boards even if they won't be great pharmacists. However, if we are getting to the bottom of the pool then schools may be willing to accept a smaller class rather than risk accreditation by graduating people who can't even pass the NAPLEX.
 
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quickpic007

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I cannot comment too much as I only know from word of mouth of students at these schools. We have 8 schools here currently, 7 of them each push out 100+ PharmD's (1000+ together), the newer school will push out 100+ once they graduate their first class. I only know that TSU has cut their class by about 40% this year, and A&M has cut their enrollment this year by about 15%. I do not know why, I'd like to think that are trying to secure a decent NAPLEX pass rate in the coming years. No word on other schools yet. Job market is tight in all areas except in the valley (South Texas, aka Mexican border).
thanks for update, good to hear some are cutting but more seats just pop up!
 
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msweph

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I cannot comment too much as I only know from word of mouth of students at these schools. We have 8 schools here currently, 7 of them each push out 100+ PharmD's (1000+ together), the newer school will push out 100+ once they graduate their first class. I only know that TSU has cut their class by about 40% this year, and A&M has cut their enrollment this year by about 15%. I do not know why, I'd like to think that are trying to secure a decent NAPLEX pass rate in the coming years. No word on other schools yet. Job market is tight in all areas except in the valley (South Texas, aka Mexican border).
Holy **** 1,000 pharmacists a year. That is terrifying.

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Maybe they are getting a lot of unqualified applicants? Pharmacy isn't that difficult, but there is a steep learning curve that some people just cannot overcome. Mid-tier students can get through and pass their boards even if they won't be great pharmacists. However, if we are getting to the bottom of the pool then schools may be willing to accept a smaller class rather than risk accreditation by graduating people who can't even pass the NAPLEX.
Precisely. I feel we've passed the mid-tier student phase, and the schools may now be saving face. Too many schools...
 

WVUPharm2007

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I like the fact that I can say that, as a 2007/2008 grad, I went to school back when they didn't let just anybody in.
 

WVUPharm2007

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Excellent.
 
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VA77

VA77

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Glad to hear that some schools are having to shoulder some responsibility in the form of money.
 

msweph

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We might have to start a new designation: PharmD-BWTDNLJAI (back when they did not let just anybody in).
Do I get to use this as a 2011 grad??

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