AAMC article on Selection Criteria for Residency

[RussianJoo]

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here's a link to the article put out by the AAMC.

http://journals.lww.com/academicmed..._Criteria_for_Residency__Results_of_a.24.aspx

it shows #1 selection criteria is 3rd year grades.
#2) is Step1 score
#3) is Grades in Senior Electives in Specialty.


my question to you is how many of you actually get a grade during your senior electives? or at least Honors, High Pass, Pass (which I feel is the same as getting an A, B, C ).

I am pretty sure my school just gives you a pass or a fail. In theory this will kind of hurt my selection, because I might perform an excellent job in an elective that I want to specialize in, but would only receive a pass which program directors can interpret as an average performance.

enjoy the article and thanks for your comments.

 

[Musashi450]

RussianJoo,
I'm in the same boat and this entire year have been wondering that exact question and now I have data showing I have a reason to worry. Frankly, I don't know how the program directors are able to compare program A to program B with such different grading scales at many places. This is why I'm actually surprised that your MSIII grades mean as much as they do, their is no standard. What would be nice to know is if that study really meant passing all clerkships required clerkships. I have a feeling more weight is probably subconciously placed on step I if the school is pass/fail. ie. if I have all passes and an honor, but a step I of 255 (I dont!), I'll probably come off better looking then we may have otherwise been on paper. However I'm willing to bet the opposite holds true as well. Any attendings or residents on committees care to chime in?

 

[howelljolly]

Yup, Ive been wondering this too. Many times, the clinical clerkship grade is entirely arbitrary. And what about different schools, and different grading scales? What about US-IMGs who do their clinicals in the US?

 

[DocVirk]

I think some of this is addressed in the Dean's letter. It basically shows what percent of student got what grade in any given third year course. That way, if your school has 2% of the class getting honors and you have all passes, it shows that your school has a fairly strict grading policy. And if 95% of your class gets honors in a certain rotation, it might reflect a fairly easy rotation.
I'm not sure how much that actually gets paid attention to, but the information is conveyed. I think the reputation of your school factors in a lot as well. People know which schools grade really easy and which ones grade really hard, so getting all passes at one school may not really be all that bad. Again, that's just how I understand it.

 

[PeepshowJohnny]

my question to you is how many of you actually get a grade during your senior electives? or at least Honors, High Pass, Pass (which I feel is the same as getting an A, B, C ).

I am pretty sure my school just gives you a pass or a fail. In theory this will kind of hurt my selection, because I might perform an excellent job in an elective that I want to specialize in, but would only receive a pass which program directors can interpret as an average performance.

We do get grades in fourth year, but since only your first rotations are going to show up, nobody cares past the second or third rotation. So the goal is to put rotations in what you're specializing in upfront and do well in them (then coast the rest of the year).

I think if your school only does pass/fail senior year, it's important that A) Your dean's letter explains this fact and B) You get a strong LOR from an attending in your desired field that makes you look like an all-star.

 

[RussianJoo]

Yeah.. Strong LOR's are a must.. I'll have to email this article to our dean to see if he's willing to change the grading scheme and add an honors, pass, fail for 4th year electives instead of just pass. fial.

However, it's nice to know that baisc science grades are so low on the list. and i am surprised that step2CS is so high, sure it's recuired to start a residency but the pass rate is like 98%.

 

[78222]

I agree regarding the subjectivity of M3 evals. I have gotten evals from people I've met once for five minutes. I have gotten evals from the crotchety old attending who thinks everyone who didn't graduate in 1949 is doing it wrong, I've gotten evals from people who hardly knew me and said I was the greatest thing since canned ham (and write this about everyone). If anything, M3 grades are the most useless, unless you know the people doing the evals.

 

[cbass1350]

I always knew personal statement was worthless, thank you for confirming my long time suspicion. I want those 5 hours of my life back.

 

[scube]

I think some of this is addressed in the Dean's letter. It basically shows what percent of student got what grade in any given third year course. That way, if your school has 2% of the class getting honors and you have all passes, it shows that your school has a fairly strict grading policy. And if 95% of your class gets honors in a certain rotation, it might reflect a fairly easy rotation.
I'm not sure how much that actually gets paid attention to, but the information is conveyed. I think the reputation of your school factors in a lot as well. People know which schools grade really easy and which ones grade really hard, so getting all passes at one school may not really be all that bad. Again, that's just how I understand it.

The letters are very long and often don't get read. this is the impression I got at the last conference i went to. the title of the break out was "Is the (deans letter) dead?" answer no, but no ones visiting. THis is just what I took away from the hour. Shame really bc it does make a solid attempt at leveling the field.

 

[PeepshowJohnny]

The letters are very long and often don't get read. this is the impression I got at the last conference i went to. the title of the break out was "Is the (deans letter) dead?" answer no, but no ones visiting. THis is just what I took away from the hour. Shame really bc it does make a solid attempt at leveling the field.

I dunno, a lot of competitive fields still won't offer interviews until Dean's letters are released. They're presumably getting something out of them.

 

[Clemson Doc]

One thing I believe is very important to program directors, yet rarely mentioned, is an applicant's level of proven interest in the field. That's not to say that someone with AOA membership and a 250 on Step 1 who decides on a specialty during the fall of their 4th year won't be competitive. But are they necessarily more competitive than the solid student who has worked toward a certainly specialty since the first year of medical school (and shown it by being involved in that specialty's interest group, done research relating to the specialty, etc.)? I don't think so, except maybe in something like ophthalmology or radiology.

From what I gather, it seems that EVERYTHING is important. Grades, evaluations, and Step scores are obviously important, but there is no denying that LORs, the MSPE, extracurriculars, and unique accomplishments are valued as well. Just because the PDs tow the company line and fill out surveys confirming that grades and test scores are important, does NOT mean that they are revealing their entire thought process. If it all came down to grades and test scores, nobody would do anything but study all the time.

For every AOA/250+ Step 1 candidate who has gotten his or her first choice, I know at least one average to below average candidate who has gotten his or her first choice as well. I even have a friend who is applying for a specialty with few spots available, and she has gotten interviews everywhere she applied but one (and she has applied to some really good programs). She has barely passed numerous classes, and scored in the 180s on her Step 1 and Step 2. She doesn't know anyone important or anything crazy like that. She is convinced that grades don't matter nearly as much as people think, and is confident that strong LORs (which she said she has), leadership experience in medical school, and a couple of other extracurriculars are the reason she did so well in the application process. Take that for what it's worth.

 

[Rzarecta]

The letters are very long and often don't get read. this is the impression I got at the last conference i went to. the title of the break out was "Is the (deans letter) dead?" answer no, but no ones visiting. THis is just what I took away from the hour. Shame really bc it does make a solid attempt at leveling the field.

At my school our dean's letter has histograms showing the breakdowns for clinical grades which (hopefully) are of some interest to PDs (as 15-20% of students get honors at my school vs other programs where ~50% get it).

Our letters have a summary sentence of sorts which lists our class grouping via some sort of buzzword as we don't have numerical rankings. These buzzwords seemed to be used by the majority of programs who don't give specific ranks. At my school they are: Outstanding (top 20%), Excellent (next 25%), Very Good (next 40%), and Good (bottom 5%).

For example, the sentence would be: In summary, we consider Rza to be an Outstanding (in the top 20% of his class) candidate for residency.

I have a sinking feeling that many PDs only care about this last summary sentence from Dean's Letters, which just puts our clinical grades into more of a context.

 

[MrBurns10]

However, it's nice to know that baisc science grades are so low on the list. and i am surprised that step2CS is so high, sure it's recuired to start a residency but the pass rate is like 98%.

Well, AOA membership is higher up on the list (more middle-of-the-road) and that often goes hand-in-hand with basic science grades. It is very possible to do well in clerkships and not be AOA-eligible due to your basic science grades, even when your basic science grades are comprised of only one year...🙂o *looks away in shame*)

That being said, AOA is still middle-of-the-road in terms of importance. I think it's something that can really help you if you have it but may not necessarily hurt you if you don't. Unless you're going for plastics or something. It is important to realize that every specialty is different, though...for example, research is one of the least important things on that list, but for certain specialties (e.g. rad onc), it's almost a must.