AAs

[BicsRock]

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First, good luck to all my fellow MS4s applying to anesthesiology. I've been hearing a lot about how if we are going to be working with midlevel providers, it should be with AAs and not CRNAs. The ASA seems to be pushing this, and they give a lot of good reasons. But my question is, who's to say that AAs won't eventually lobby to do more etc etc, and end up like CRNAs?
Thanks

 

[BLADEMDA]

First, good luck to all my fellow MS4s applying to anesthesiology. I've been hearing a lot about how if we are going to be working with midlevel providers, it should be with AAs and not CRNAs. The ASA seems to be pushing this, and they give a lot of good reasons. But my question is, who's to say that AAs won't eventually lobby to do more etc etc, and end up like CRNAs?
Thanks

Post in the MIdlevel forum. Your answers are there. By the way, the AANA/CRNA wants the AA profession destroyed.

 

[BLADEMDA]

The AANA/CRNAs have testified under oath that the AA is unqualified to work under the direction of an Anesthesiologist. Meanwhile, the AANA seeks complete autonomy for its membership. The militant CRNA describes a pre-AA as nothing more than the gentleman you see below:

 

[BLADEMDA]

Since 2001, 16 states have opted out of the federal physician supervision requirement for nurse anesthetists: Iowa, Nebraska, Idaho, Minnesota, New Hampshire, New Mexico, Kansas, North Dakota, Washington, Alaska, Oregon, Montana, South Dakota, Wisconsin, California, and Colorado

 

[BLADEMDA]

Since 2001, 16 states have opted out of the federal physician supervision requirement for nurse anesthetists: Iowa, Nebraska, Idaho, Minnesota, New Hampshire, New Mexico, Kansas, North Dakota, Washington, Alaska, Oregon, Montana, South Dakota, Wisconsin, California, and Colorado

Guess how many states AAs can practice in? The AANA fights every state that the AA seeks just to get the right to work in.

The Independent Practice of an AA is simply a ploy of the AANA; there is no truth to it as the AA must answer to the BOARD of MEDICINE in each state.

 

[BLADEMDA]

AAs currently work in eighteen (18) states.
The states in which AAs work by a license, regulation, and/or certification are:
Alabama
District of Columbia
Florida
Georgia
Kentucky
Missouri
New Mexico (university hospital settings)
Ohio
Oklahoma
South Carolina
Vermont
North Carolina

The states in which AAs are granted practice privilege through physician delegation (meaning the anesthesiologist can delegate specific anesthesia tasks to an AA):

Colorado
Michigan
New Hampshire
Texas
West Virginia
Wisconsin

 

[BLADEMDA]

In all states AA practice falls under the auspices of the board of medicine. In contrast, nurse anesthetists' practice is regulated by state boards of nursing

 

[BLADEMDA]

 

[BLADEMDA]

 

[BLADEMDA]

 

[BLADEMDA]

 

[BLADEMDA]

 

[BLADEMDA]

 

[BLADEMDA]

 

[BLADEMDA]

 

[Endee]

The Wisconsin legislature just passed AA licensure legislation.

http://www.wiseye.org/videoplayer/vp.html?sid=7634
Footage of the testimony, including opposition, starts around the 22 minute mark.

 

[Stank811]

Just think we need the governors signature

 

[btbam]

First, good luck to all my fellow MS4s applying to anesthesiology. I've been hearing a lot about how if we are going to be working with midlevel providers, it should be with AAs and not CRNAs. The ASA seems to be pushing this, and they give a lot of good reasons. But my question is, who's to say that AAs won't eventually lobby to do more etc etc, and end up like CRNAs?
Thanks

As an AA, I'm glad to know you've heard positive things about working with AAs. As Blade alluded to we are only licensed to work under MD supervision. Also, AA education differs greatly from CRNA in that we are fully supportive of the ACT model. I can honestly say I've never once heard an AA complain about our lack of independence. It's simply not ingrained in our minds early on like the militant CRNAs.

 

[BLADEMDA]

http://www.everhadgas.com/CRNA-AA_Comparison_Table_update_208.pdf

Go ahead and see the AANA attack on AAs

 

[jwk]

http://www.everhadgas.com/CRNA-AA_Comparison_Table_update_208.pdf

Go ahead and see the AANA attack on AAs

Incredible piece of propaganda.

 

[Mman]

http://www.everhadgas.com/CRNA-AA_Comparison_Table_update_208.pdf

Go ahead and see the AANA attack on AAs

My favorite part of that document. 36,000 practicing CRNAs and currently 5100 students. Assuming a 2 year program, that's over 2500 graduates per year. Average career length is probably 30 years for a CRNA so they are pumping out graduates at a pace that will have about 75000 CRNAs in practice at any one time (and they keep upping the number).


I can't believe current CRNAs aren't outraged about the number of people they crank out a year. It's going to drive their salary into the toilet.

 

[BLADEMDA]

My favorite part of that document. 36,000 practicing CRNAs and currently 5100 students. Assuming a 2 year program, that's over 2500 graduates per year. Average career length is probably 30 years for a CRNA so they are pumping out graduates at a pace that will have about 75000 CRNAs in practice at any one time (and they keep upping the number).


I can't believe current CRNAs aren't outraged about the number of people they crank out a year. It's going to drive their salary into the toilet.

The plan is to drive you out of a job.

 

[JLM]

For those who really care about this issue:


https://secure.societyhq.com/aaaa/AAAASupportPledge.iphtml


I found enough in my resident salary to give a few dollars. I would like to think the attendings on here could do so as well.

 

[Mman]

The plan is to drive you out of a job.

flooding the market isn't part of that plan. Having more CRNAs doesn't create more operations in the US or open more operating rooms. My job is already supervising CRNAs and AAs 100%. Even if I didn't exist, there wouldn't be any more jobs for the CRNAs (other than driving out the small # of AAs we have).

Flooding the market with new grads is a money grab by the schools who can tout high incomes for their grads and rake in the tuition. As the job market dries up in the next 2-4 years, they'll still have a flood of applicants who don't realize there are no jobs.

 

[deleted126335]

No problem...Just not as equals.

 

[Endee]

If you wanna get fired up, look at the Wisconsin testimony link I posted earlier, go to around the 1:10:00 mark, and watch the CRNA say multiple times that he is equivalent to an anesthesiologist in skill and training.

You will never hear an AA say that, period.

 

[deleted126335]

If you wanna get fired up, look at the Wisconsin testimony link I posted earlier, go to around the 1:10:00 mark, and watch the CRNA say multiple times that he is equivalent to an anesthesiologist in skill and training.

You will never hear an AA say that, period.

To the CRNAs and SRNAs who are lurking, that is why anti-CRNA sentiment exists among anesthesiologists.

 

[btbam]

That guy testifying at 1:19 is delusional, it was great when the NP state senator blasted him for comparing anesthesiologists and CRNAs as equal haha.

 

[Frank Rizzo]

Incredible piece of propaganda.

agreed

 

[CaptainObvious]

Just a browsing pre-med here but ...wow. I had no idea this was such a problem.

Other than the obvious educational differences, it there anything that anesthesiologists do that CRNA's cannot? I know that CRNA's handle the drugs, gas, and intubations, but what about procedure-wise? Are they doing epidurals, nerve blocks - ultrasound guided or otherwise?

This sure seems to be something to keep in mind for people like me who have anesthesia on the list of "things I might like to do if I actually get into and through med school."

 

[BLADEMDA]

If you wanna get fired up, look at the Wisconsin testimony link I posted earlier, go to around the 1:10:00 mark, and watch the CRNA say multiple times that he is equivalent to an anesthesiologist in skill and training.

You will never hear an AA say that, period.

More than a few believe they are not only "equal" but superior. I've heard a few say that as well.

Many CRNA educators instill the false concept of CRNA "equality" with Physician Anesthesiologists. They not only believe it but teach it to all the SRNAs.

 

[okayplayer]

If you wanna get fired up, look at the Wisconsin testimony link I posted earlier, go to around the 1:10:00 mark, and watch the CRNA say multiple times that he is equivalent to an anesthesiologist in skill and training.

You will never hear an AA say that, period.

Wow. Unbelievable. What a piece of ****.

 

[pgg]

Other than the obvious educational differences, it there anything that anesthesiologists do that CRNA's cannot?

Practice medicine.

 

[Josh1]

I am glad to see that AA legislature did pass! As a future anesthesiologist that Wisconsin video was scary to see how much people are fighting to throw anesthesiology off a secure career path, I hope docs keep hiring AAs and lose the militants. When I get in practice I hope I have the option to hire good AAs and will train them well!
For the practicing docs out there: Why hire CRNAs, why not AAs? Is it a license thing? (This is a question for those who can make the decision to hire whoever they want, not those who aren't in that position)

Watch at 1:19:00 to see who you are hiring and how they will testify at your state meetings, it's more of a shock to actually see the video than to see the writing, think about the ramifications:
"...the most efficient way to minimize these subsidies is to minimize the number of anesthesiologists who provide the care"
"...In the state of Wisconsin an anesthesiologist and a nurse anesthetist are interchangeable"
-Mark Labor CRNA at 1:19:00

 

[Taurus]

I am glad to see that AA legislature did pass! As a future anesthesiologist that Wisconsin video was scary to see how much people are fighting to throw anesthesiology off a secure career path, I hope docs keep hiring AAs and lose the militants. When I get in practice I hope I have the option to hire good AAs and will train them well!
For the practicing docs out there: Why hire CRNAs, why not AAs? Is it a license thing? (This is a question for those who can make the decision to hire whoever they want, not those who aren't in that position)

Watch at 1:19:00 to see who you are hiring and how they will testify at your state meetings, it's more of a shock to actually see the video than to see the writing, think about the ramifications:
"...the most efficient way to minimize these subsidies is to minimize the number of anesthesiologists who provide the care"
"...In the state of Wisconsin an anesthesiologist and a nurse anesthetist are interchangeable"
-Mark Labor CRNA at 1:19:00

Now they need to start opening AA schools in Wisconsin!

 

[Taurus]

The Wisconsin legislature just passed AA licensure legislation.

http://www.wiseye.org/videoplayer/vp.html?sid=7634
Footage of the testimony, including opposition, starts around the 22 minute mark.

Very interesting to watch. Those were the best arguments that the CRNA's could make against AA licensure? No wonder they lost and the bill passed.

 

[deleted126335]

Very interesting to watch. Those were the best arguments that the CRNA's could make against AA licensure? No wonder they lost and the bill passed.

Don't pat yourself or our profession on the back. Don't underestimate them. We are losing ground. Have been for some time. Reasons are debatable, but that statement is not.

 

[Taurus]

Don't pat yourself or our profession on the back. Don't underestimate them. We are losing ground. Have been for some time. Reasons are debatable, but that statement is not.

It began when our predecessor anesthesiologists sold out the profession and hired CRNA's en masse. AA's are anesthesiology's best hope because it hits the CRNA's in their wallets big time. Increase the midlevel anesthesia market and allow anesthesiologists determine who they want to hire. That's what the CRNA's are terrified about. They don't want you to have a choice.

 

[yappy]

Yes! Imagine if groups using CRNA's canned their asses and hired only AAs.

"Sorry, buddy. Looks like it's back to med surg for you. Call yourself a doctor while you're doing regular RN duties" lol.

More boardly, I've always like the model of physician assistant providers much more. They take the same prereqs as premed, they answer to the same govern body, they understand their role as apart of the health care delivery team. Why is it physicians dont boycot advanced practice RN's all together?

Their education lacks rigor and is all around sad. They remind me of the teachers unions.

It began when our predecessor anesthesiologists sold out the profession and hired CRNA's en masse. AA's are anesthesiology's best hope because it hits the CRNA's in their wallets big time. Increase the midlevel anesthesia market and allow anesthesiologists determine who they want to hire. That's what the CRNA's are terrified about. They don't want you to have a choice.