AAVMC Data 2012-2013

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You know it, but you don't GET it.

Every school does things a bit differently, and some are harder than others.

Here, if you make an F, you are out.

If you made a D, you take a placement exam.

If you don't pass the placement exam, you are out.

It happens. Generally 1st year, but it happens.

And to say you don't understand how someone could manage to fail out of veterinary school after all the hard work... good lord. Let me assure you, it's generally not for lack of effort. Everyone needs to stop assuming that hard undergrad classes and a heavy courseload is in any way comparable to what vet school is like, because it's. just. not.
I didn't mean "hard to hear" as in I find it hard to believe/understand. I meant that it really sucks to hear that students are failing out. Sorry for the confusion! Definitely didn't mean it that way.

And yeah, I fully support the notion that undergrad GPA really doesn't indicate how you'll do. In some situations, it can, but we all know that a 4.0 doesn't mean you'll do well in vet school.

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Yeah. That would be this past week for me. Two crappy exams in one week. I know one grade was crappy, haven't gotten the other yet, would be shocked if I got above a 40% to be honest.

Dear professors,

I can not read a paragraph of info for each question plus all answer choices also being short paragraphs... my brain shuts down. I can't even recall what I have read anymore. And when you do this for 30 questions in a row, I kind of just want to lay down and give up once I get to the end. That doesn't even include the other 20 questions which were essentially, which one of the following is true and giving 6 or more choices which actually makes 1 question into 6 T/F questions...

Nobody (ok, maybe a very small number of people) can keep up stamina through and exam like that and come out unscathed.

Ugh. This is the worst. A lot of our repro tests are done this way...by the end of it, I don't even remember what gender/species of animal I was reading about.
 
Hey guys,

Related to the topic of OOS schools with lower GPAs than IS, I have not seen that anywhere except here https://www.vetmed.vt.edu/acad/dvm/docs/stats.pdf
I found that last night; VA-MD is the only school where I have seen that to be the case. I'm not sure what it signifies, if anything. Logically, you would think competition would drive up OOS GPAs, and that holds for all of the other schools I have looked at, except this one. Not sure.
 
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On the subject of vet school being way different than undergrad, could someone suggest some study tools or tips they have found useful? I know I've been told doing it like we have been done in undergrad just won't cut it. Links to other threads on it would be welcome too if anyone knows.
 
On the subject of vet school being way different than undergrad, could someone suggest some study tools or tips they have found useful? I know I've been told doing it like we have been done in undergrad just won't cut it. Links to other threads on it would be welcome too if anyone knows.
Some previous threads
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/how-to-study-in-vet-school.907483/
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/study-habits.827050/
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/study-advice-for-1st-years.658680/
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/vet-school-study-tools.1087936/
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/what-has-been-your-best-study-technique.978709/
 
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Just wanted to comment that here, it's pretty easy to get a 2.0 average, since we don't do +/-'s. So straight C's will get you that average.

Also, just wanted to reiterate how easy it is to come close to failing a class --and definitely not from lack of effort. Some of our classes have one Final, so if life get's in the way and it goes poorly, you're screwed. I've also been close before because I effed up one single test horribly enough that it screws me over.

Neuropharm at UMN. Your only grade in the class is the final exam. Woooooo!

I think MB's point was that to actually have a 2.0 average .... you're skating the line. Most places have repercussions at F's or even D's (here 2 D's in a semester is equivalent to an F and you fail out). So if you're actually getting straight C's .... you know how vet school is. You can expect at least a few classes to blind-side you grade-wise. If you're cruising through on straight C's (i.e. 2.0 GPA) and suddenly get hammered with a D or two.... you could be failed out in a heart beat. I dunno. Maybe Penn doesn't care about D's like our school does as long as you maintain that 2.0?
 
Ugh. This is the worst. A lot of our repro tests are done this way...by the end of it, I don't even remember what gender/species of animal I was reading about.

I had some board question on NAVLE with a species where I actually said "What the hell kind of animal is that? I've never heard of that."

Probably some bird or something. I'm not a bird person.

But it kinda amused me to be so lost on a question that I didn't even know what kind of animal we were talking about. It made picking the answer a really easy game of random choice.
 
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On the subject of vet school being way different than undergrad, could someone suggest some study tools or tips they have found useful? I know I've been told doing it like we have been done in undergrad just won't cut it. Links to other threads on it would be welcome too if anyone knows.

There's all sorts of people who will give you specific advice about techniques, but my first piece of advice would be to keep an open mind. A lot of people are like "this is what works for me. I know me best. I know what works for me."

That's true, historically. But be open to trying things that seem like they may or may not work for you. I was rock solid certain I knew what worked best for me ..... but because I had friends who said "hey, let's try this" and I was game, I discovered ways to study that I never would have tried otherwise that turned out to work better.

So. Don't be the person who is so cocksure of yourself that you close yourself off to trying novel study techniques. Don't keep trying something that doesn't work, obviously, but....
 
Neuropharm at UMN. Your only grade in the class is the final exam. Woooooo!

I think MB's point was that to actually have a 2.0 average .... you're skating the line. Most places have repercussions at F's or even D's (here 2 D's in a semester is equivalent to an F and you fail out). So if you're actually getting straight C's .... you know how vet school is. You can expect at least a few classes to blind-side you grade-wise. If you're cruising through on straight C's (i.e. 2.0 GPA) and suddenly get hammered with a D or two.... you could be failed out in a heart beat. I dunno. Maybe Penn doesn't care about D's like our school does as long as you maintain that 2.0?

1 D here could get you kicked out, depending upon your other grades that semester.
 
1 D here could get you kicked out, depending upon your other grades that semester.

How so?

I suppose one could here, too, if it dropped you below 2.0 (like getting all C's and one D). Or if you already had the max allowed for D's (we have a 6 total D rule in addition to the 2 D's in any one semester equals an F rule).

Is your school one of those that has certain classes that you have to get a C or higher in, and others that you're allowed a D in? It seems like I've heard of that some places?

Sigh. Seems more complex than it ought to be.
 
How so?

I suppose one could here, too, if it dropped you below 2.0 (like getting all C's and one D). Or if you already had the max allowed for D's (we have a 6 total D rule in addition to the 2 D's in any one semester equals an F rule).

Is your school one of those that has certain classes that you have to get a C or higher in, and others that you're allowed a D in? It seems like I've heard of that some places?

Sigh. Seems more complex than it ought to be.

It is kind of complex. I'll message you.
 
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Neuropharm at UMN. Your only grade in the class is the final exam. Woooooo!

I think MB's point was that to actually have a 2.0 average .... you're skating the line. Most places have repercussions at F's or even D's (here 2 D's in a semester is equivalent to an F and you fail out). So if you're actually getting straight C's .... you know how vet school is. You can expect at least a few classes to blind-side you grade-wise. If you're cruising through on straight C's (i.e. 2.0 GPA) and suddenly get hammered with a D or two.... you could be failed out in a heart beat. I dunno. Maybe Penn doesn't care about D's like our school does as long as you maintain that 2.0?

No they care. I think you can fail one class and and retake it over the summer to be with your class. If you fail more than one I think you have to petition to stay in school but drop to the class below. I'll be honest, I'm not too sure on our policy because it was changed when I got in and kind of confused me. But I see what you're saying.
 
No they care. I think you can fail one class and and retake it over the summer to be with your class. If you fail more than one I think you have to petition to stay in school but drop to the class below. I'll be honest, I'm not too sure on our policy because it was changed when I got in and kind of confused me. But I see what you're saying.

I think this is more common among the schools than people realize. :laugh:
 
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I think this is more common among the schools than people realize. :laugh:

Hahahaha. That's three schools now with policies so confusing that all of us have just said "Meh. I'm just gonna get C's and up and not try to understand."

Too funny.

It didn't seem this complicated in undergrad.

No they care. I think you can fail one class and and retake it over the summer to be with your class. If you fail more than one I think you have to petition to stay in school but drop to the class below. I'll be honest, I'm not too sure on our policy because it was changed when I got in and kind of confused me. But I see what you're saying.

How does Penn manage to provide the class over the summer? That's really cool that they're able to do that!

There's a bit of difference between our policy on paper and how it plays out in reality. Technically you're kicked out after one F, 2 D's in any one semester, or 6 D's total. And that's technically how they are all handled. But <practically> speaking, those people are almost always allowed to come back the next year and retake the course(s) (plus anything else they got < a C in that semester) and rejoin the class below them.

I dunno. I feel like UMN is more than generous in how they handle these problems. It's practically automatic that you're given a second chance.
 
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I had some board question on NAVLE with a species where I actually said "What the hell kind of animal is that? I've never heard of that."

Probably some bird or something. I'm not a bird person.

But it kinda amused me to be so lost on a question that I didn't even know what kind of animal we were talking about. It made picking the answer a really easy game of random choice.

I once went to a talk on cria medicine with absolutely no idea what a cria was... I feel like that's pretty similar. :p
 
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Hahahaha. That's three schools now with policies so confusing that all of us have just said "Meh. I'm just gonna get C's and up and not try to understand."

Too funny.

It didn't seem this complicated in undergrad.



How does Penn manage to provide the class over the summer? That's really cool that they're able to do that!

There's a bit of difference between our policy on paper and how it plays out in reality. Technically you're kicked out after one F, 2 D's in any one semester, or 6 D's total. And that's technically how they are all handled. But <practically> speaking, those people are almost always allowed to come back the next year and retake the course(s) (plus anything else they got < a C in that semester) and rejoin the class below them.

I dunno. I feel like UMN is more than generous in how they handle these problems. It's practically automatic that you're given a second chance.

Surprisingly enough, Edinburgh's policy was super easy.

There was only 1 exam for each "class". Fail that exam, you can retake in the summer. Fail that one, you have to petition to be allowed to retake. Usually they let you. When you go to retake, you don't retake the full year, only the course or courses you failed.
 
That's, like, a llama or something, right? ;)
Baaaaaaaaaabbbbbbbbyyyyy llamas! (or alpacas, etc).

l-so-heres-a-baby-llama-with-a-broken-leg.jpg


...it was a super rewarding and adorable lecture. I don't remember any of it except for what a cria is. :p
 
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I'm also pretty sure that it would be really difficult to manage a 2.0 in vet school without being flunked out first for most schools. You can get C's and be totally cool, but it would be hard to average a 2.0 without having some D's in there... Which gets you in trouble with the firing squad at a lot of places.

Plenty of people have below a 3.0, and do just fine. But that's how dangerously close to academic troubles anyone can be in at any time. When you take so many classes at once, and a couple exams determine your grade for each class... One crappy week and one crappy exam can get you in hot waters very fast.
not sure i agree. It isn't that hard to learn how much work you need to just get a C.
Maybe getting exactly a 2.0, but to get mostly Cs and the occasional B.... eh, I think I know a few people who were close.
 
Why wouldn't they? That's prime tuition dollars (and an extra semester/year's worth) that they wouldn't be able to recoup if the student left forever.
Actually Penn made it easier to flunk out while I was there. Not sure what the thinking was, but the changes did lead to at least a few academic casualties.

But, tbh, most people who struggled, were experiencing some sort of (worse than average) concurrent personal distractions...
 
Hahahaha. That's three schools now with policies so confusing that all of us have just said "Meh. I'm just gonna get C's and up and not try to understand."

Too funny.

It didn't seem this complicated in undergrad.



How does Penn manage to provide the class over the summer? That's really cool that they're able to do that!

There's a bit of difference between our policy on paper and how it plays out in reality. Technically you're kicked out after one F, 2 D's in any one semester, or 6 D's total. And that's technically how they are all handled. But <practically> speaking, those people are almost always allowed to come back the next year and retake the course(s) (plus anything else they got < a C in that semester) and rejoin the class below them.

I dunno. I feel like UMN is more than generous in how they handle these problems. It's practically automatic that you're given a second chance.

Now that I think about it, I think it might be only for Anatomy since that's the only class I can think of that would be super difficult to retake if you remained in your current class...and I think it's the only one I've heard students say they took over the summer. Maybe you can take a few others too, but I don't exactly go around asking everyone if they've failed a particular class, so I'm not really sure.

I know a little bit from a friend who failed a class but also ended up being granted medical leave due to illness that actually affected her ability to study, etc. She also had to maintain a certain GPA when she did 1st year again in order to keep going.
 
I had some board question on NAVLE with a species where I actually said "What the hell kind of animal is that? I've never heard of that."

Probably some bird or something. I'm not a bird person.

But it kinda amused me to be so lost on a question that I didn't even know what kind of animal we were talking about. It made picking the answer a really easy game of random choice.
i had one of those!! thankfully they saved me later on in the question by saying that the _____ was a bird (we'll say bird but i have no idea! - A _________ walks into your clinic. What is the most obscure random fact about this bird possible? [at least thats how every question read in my mind...haha])
 
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My favorite questions on exams so far have been:

1. Oral animal handling exam for exotic animals: Walk in to the exotic area, the instructor walks up the guinea pigs and goes, "What are the 3 most common guinea pig breeds?" .... Uhh, there are different breeds? I can't remember horse breeds, you want me to know guinea pig breeds? :bang:

2. Based on your knowledge of reproductive physiology and given this graph of the various hormones and their fluctuations during an elephant's estrus cycle, please describe what is going on in the elephant's estrus cycle.... please give a reasoning for why the elephant has two LH surges... (I could barely remember the bovine estrus cycle and what is happening and you want me to just figure out how an elephant's estrus cycle works.... :lol:)
 
My favorite questions on exams so far have been:

1. Oral animal handling exam for exotic animals: Walk in to the exotic area, the instructor walks up the guinea pigs and goes, "What are the 3 most common guinea pig breeds?" .... Uhh, there are different breeds? I can't remember horse breeds, you want me to know guinea pig breeds? :bang:

2. Based on your knowledge of reproductive physiology and given this graph of the various hormones and their fluctuations during an elephant's estrus cycle, please describe what is going on in the elephant's estrus cycle.... please give a reasoning for why the elephant has two LH surges... (I could barely remember the bovine estrus cycle and what is happening and you want me to just figure out how an elephant's estrus cycle works.... :lol:)

DSCN1165.JPG
 
That might just give me nightmares....... I just can't with the hairless critters, I don't know what it is about them, but I can't.


Apparently the 3 most popular guinea pig breeds are:

Peruvian
English
and
Abyssinian

Who knew?
Peruvian = the ones that they eat on a stick....

i actually knew abyssinian :p
 
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Peruvian = the ones that they eat on a stick....

i actually knew abyssinian :p

:laugh:

I somehow pulled Peruvian out of thin air. I knew that one started with an "a" but the only thing that came to my mind was agouti... I got yelled at for saying agouti.... "No, that is a COLOR, the answers are blah, blah, blah"... Oh, ok... I will somehow store that in the folder of useless crap vet school has taught me, thanks.
 
Hahahaha. That's three schools now with policies so confusing that all of us have just said "Meh. I'm just gonna get C's and up and not try to understand."

Too funny.

It didn't seem this complicated in undergrad.



How does Penn manage to provide the class over the summer? That's really cool that they're able to do that!

There's a bit of difference between our policy on paper and how it plays out in reality. Technically you're kicked out after one F, 2 D's in any one semester, or 6 D's total. And that's technically how they are all handled. But <practically> speaking, those people are almost always allowed to come back the next year and retake the course(s) (plus anything else they got < a C in that semester) and rejoin the class below them.

I dunno. I feel like UMN is more than generous in how they handle these problems. It's practically automatic that you're given a second chance.
Pretty sure Orca is a little confused here....

You are allowed one failure (below a c is considered failing at Penn) that you can re-exam.
Two in the same semester and you are dropped to the next class (or kicked out, there is some degree of failing involved i believe).

You can re-exam during the summer, you do NOT take the class again. In the case of anatomy you are given the opportunity to re-dissect the dog, as that is what the re-exam will be on (they thankfully drop the other animals for the re-exam). (ps- the anatomy lab is probably one of the coolest places in Philly during the summer, so there is that). In other classes you are just given a comprehensive final exam to take at a date negotiated with the school.

If you pass the re-exam, your grade is changed to a D (regardless of your grade on the re-exam if it is above passing. One student got 100% on the re-exam and still kept the D. 100%. That was pretty impressive.) You are never allowed to fail a class again or you are booted (or that is the way I understand the policy now). Lots of people have been "challenging" this policy so it may change again (or it may have already... if you are in Penn, please check your student handbook, this is not vet school advice, purely for entertainment purposes. I know some students were supposed to be booted and appealed/sued and were reinstated). It used to be you were on probation and then afterwards you could fail again.

I know someone failed a second class (where I think 20 people in the class failed or some ridiculous number) and was kicked out even though the policy seemed blatantly unfair.

And yes, LIS, this is ridiculously complicated.
 
Pretty sure Orca is a little confused here....

You are allowed one failure (below a c is considered failing at Penn) that you can re-exam.
Two in the same semester and you are dropped to the next class (or kicked out, there is some degree of failing involved i believe).

You can re-exam during the summer, you do NOT take the class again. In the case of anatomy you are given the opportunity to re-dissect the dog, as that is what the re-exam will be on (they thankfully drop the other animals for the re-exam). (ps- the anatomy lab is probably one of the coolest places in Philly during the summer, so there is that). In other classes you are just given a comprehensive final exam to take at a date negotiated with the school.

If you pass the re-exam, your grade is changed to a D (regardless of your grade on the re-exam if it is above passing. One student got 100% on the re-exam and still kept the D. 100%. That was pretty impressive.) You are never allowed to fail a class again or you are booted (or that is the way I understand the policy now). Lots of people have been "challenging" this policy so it may change again (or it may have already... if you are in Penn, please check your student handbook, this is not vet school advice, purely for entertainment purposes. I know some students were supposed to be booted and appealed/sued and were reinstated). It used to be you were on probation and then afterwards you could fail again.

I know someone failed a second class (where I think 20 people in the class failed or some ridiculous number) and was kicked out even though the policy seemed blatantly unfair.

And yes, LIS, this is ridiculously complicated.

Yup...like I said, the whole process confuses me. Thanks for clarifying. I guess I should have realized that it was just a re-exam not retaking the class. Probably stemmed from the bit about being able to re-dissect the dog.
 
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