ABFAS Cert pass rates

[PMG03470]

Does anyone know the real ABFAS certification first time pass rates? If you look at the website data it appears to be around [emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]%. But based on what I have heard and read on here it seems to be lower? Genuinely curious if anyone knows…

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[billBOB213]

Replying to see if my post looks like yours with all the random text. Everytime I was replying it looked like that ☝🏼

I deleted my app and reinstalled, let’s see how it goes….

 

[heybrother]

Does anyone know the real ABFAS certification first time pass rates? If you look at the website data it appears to be around [emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]%. But based on what I have heard and read on here it seems to be lower? Genuinely curious if anyone knows…

ABFAS isn't being transparent. The certification rate is the total number of students who certify divided by the total number of students who perform ANY certification process, exam for that certification.

The number of podiatrists who take RRA exams is slightly smaller, but almost identical to the number of students who take Foot exams. Let's call it 400ish. The number of students for any class who ultimately truly certify RRA is like 100, give or take. Most people never sit for the RRA case review. However, most people paid ABFAS for the Foot/RRA exams.

The certification rate for RRA is maybe ~20-25% based on an outsider looking in at 100/(400-500) . If they want to take hundreds of students $$$ for years in exam fees then those students are part of the denominator.

Imagine you asked a podiatry school - what percentage of students graduate and then they try to drop students from the denominator because they didn't pass first year or APMLE Part 1. That's essentially what ABFAS is doing.

There are ways for ABFAS to honestly report their findings. Those ways are contrary to their current PR blitz as they try to battle ABPM and claim they are something they are not - inclusive.

I've said this elsewhere and I'll say it again - almost no one should be taking any of the RRA exams. The data very clearly shows that a tiny number of people (maybe 20% of a residency class) are ultimately sitting for the case review. It would produce a deserved revenue drop for ABFAS since at least some component of their business model appears to be podiatrists taking costly tests for certifications they will never receive. Its clearly demonstrated in their outcomes data.

None of what I'm saying is a commentary on the quality of their tests or their case review process. They've reported a measure of their data. I have no problem with their data. What I have a problem with is their spokespeople going to conferences and trying to make blanket statements that are not a reflection of their actual data. Their data very clear shows a process that most people will not see through to completion and ultimate certification.

 

[PMG03470]

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ABFAS isn't being transparent. The certification rate is the total number of students who certify divided by the total number of students who perform ANY certification process, exam for that certification.

The number of podiatrists who take RRA exams is slightly smaller, but almost identical to the number of students who take Foot exams. Let's call it ish. The number of students for any class who ultimately truly certify RRA is lik, give or take. Most people never sit for the RRA case review. However, most people paid ABFAS for the Foot/RRA exams.

The certification rate for RRA is maybe ~) . If they want to take hundreds of students $$$ for years in exam fees then those students are part of the denominator.

Imagine you asked a podiatry school - what percentage of students graduate and then they try to drop students from the denominator because they didn't pass first year or APMLE Part [emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]. That's essentially what ABFAS is doing.

There are ways for ABFAS to honestly report their findings. Those ways are contrary to their current PR blitz as they try to battle ABPM and claim they are something they are not - inclusive.

I've said this elsewhere and I'll say it again - almost no one should be taking any of the RRA exams. The data very clearly shows that a tiny number of people (maybe [emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]% of a residency class) are ultimately sitting for the case review. It would produce a deserved revenue drop for ABFAS since at least some component of their business model appears to be podiatrists taking costly tests for certifications they will never receive. Its clearly demonstrated in their outcomes data.

None of what I'm saying is a commentary on the quality of their tests or their case review process. They've reported a measure of their data. I have no problem with their data. What I have a problem with is their spokespeople going to conferences and trying to make blanket statements that are not a reflection of their actual data. Their data very clear shows a process that most people will not see through to completion and ultimate certification.

I totally get what you are saying, but in a given year for the people who actively apply for certification, I want to know how many pass. I’m currently applying for foot cert right now and I’m just really in my head about it, picking my cases apart and worrying I won’t pass. I’m fortunate all the cases they picked had good outcomes, but weeks. Just afraid these things will hurt me though out of my control.

 

[PMG03470]

Commenting again to see if it looks normal

 

[heybrother]

Its very difficult to follow your posts with the emoji business. I don't think ABFAS reports on what you are asking. If you have already passed the exams and are sitting for the case review then the odds that you ultimately will pass (...in time) and certify through the case review are decent.

If you said to me - what are the odds any graduating resident will ultimately certify in Foot or RRA - I'd say ... meh to problematic.

If you said to me - what are the odds a resident who has already passed the exams and is sitting for Foot cases will certify - I'd say probably fairly decent assuming they aren't on year 6-7. But the individual yearly success rates or number of times needed to pass aren't reported anywhere that I've seen.

 

[Feli]

The only thing that matters is your personal pass rate. It's either zero percent... or 100%.

As said, once you are BQ, you will likely get BC if you do cases.
It takes learning the process, and you might get some years they pull cases your results or records (or both) are not good on.
There's the comments section for each case now, so that helps a lot imo.
It is smart to submit at least one cycle prior to your last chance (to learn the process/reqs).
Just learn the process, watch the vids and powerpoint that ABFAS puts out (needs login).
Ask the facilities early (for anesth record, etc). Expect delays on getting what you need. It takes time, but many pass first try.

Some programs have 100% or near on the BQ year after year... other programs have terrible rates.
BQ is simply a matter of studying... core texts, conferences, journals, learning the CBPS format (ABFAS website, BoardWizards etc).

...either way, well worthwhile goal.
Foot cert ABFAS puts you roughly the top half of DPMs for jobs, and RRA probably the top 20% or so. A lot of people give up too fast, and some don't even try for it. That's ill-advised. ABFAS is the appropriate cert for what our residencies train and what nearly all of us will do (surgery). It'll make a big difference as to what job doors are open/closed for decades to come. It'll also avoid most privileging and limitation of facility/scope problems.

 

[Weirdy]

Tried to edit to clear up emojis.
Looks like app is having trouble with numbers.
Feel free to re-edit and add the percentages you guys were looking for back into your posts see if anything changes.

 

[PMG03470]

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Tried to edit to clear up emojis.
Looks like app is having trouble with numbers.
Feel free to re-edit and add the percentages you guys were looking for back into your posts see if anything changes.

I edited it again, and the emoji thing came right back…

 

[MicroPod]

Someone needs to make a Feli post/emoji thing meme asap

 

[diabeticfootdr]

Does anyone know the real ABFAS certification first time pass rates? If you look at the website data it appears to be around [...] But based on what I have heard and read on here it seems to be lower? Genuinely curious if anyone knows…

I can't see the number you guessed through the emojis ...

But we've publicized this before (~2022) and calculated it by the percent that pass each of the 6 parts (to achieve RRA, aka the residency curriculum) and how you must proceed from Didactic to CBPS to Cases in Foot and RRA and found it could be no higher than 32%.

Transparency would require stating how many people completed the process divided by how many started the process for a given residency graduation year.

That prompted a cease and desist letter from ABFAS.

I framed it and put it above the urinal.

 

[Feli]

Someone needs to make a Feli post/emoji thing meme asap

I don't use SDN (or much of any internet) on phone.
Reading and typing phone it is slow and messes up my eyes (didn't even know there was an app SDN). I just use my phone as a phone.

I'm old, sir... turn 44 this year. The 3-0 suture is looking a bit small these days. 🤓
But you whippers should enjoy 4-0 nylon being easy to see... while it lasts.

 

[air bud]

I don't use SDN (or much of any internet) on phone.
Reading and typing phone it is slow and messes up my eyes (didn't even know there was an app SDN). I just use my phone as a phone.

I'm old, sir... turn 44 this year. The 3-0 suture is looking a bit small these days. 🤓
But you whippers should enjoy 4-0 nylon being easy to see... while it lasts.

Wait I am older than Feli? Holy crap. This guy is an 84 year old masquerading in a 44 year olds body

Edit - 74

 

[PMG03470]

Thank you Dr. Rogers, I actually agree with your post. I think that I didn’t ask my question clearly.

I was really asking of those who apply for cert in a given year, what is the pass rate for that. Not the overall pass rate for anyone attempting ABFAS. I passed my exams and I’m applying for foot cert this year and just wanted to know if there was an idea of how likely I was to pass this first round.

 

[icebreaker32]

It can be searched easily. I don't understand the new process completely but foot portion pass rates are high with new exam as in above 90 percent now. Rearfoot pass rates above 70 percent.

Seems they are still weeding more out on the qualification exams than board certified exams. Pass rates used to be much lower for certified exams.

Exam Pass Rates

Examination pass rate data from candidates undertaking the two-step process to earn ABFAS Board Certification

www.abfas.org

 

[Bluecollarmed]

New process towards qualification is nice in that it saves you from having to take another exam so you just pay your $1200 to play aka have your final year in-training exams count as your certifying exams. I'm not sure how other programs work but mine covered the cost of exams outside of our CME budget. I think the point of contention is there's not a mandatory exam to take. Some programs I heard were doing ABFAS exams then switched to ABPM, or giving residents their choice which to take, meaning if you didn't take the ABFAS exams third year, you're effectively adding another qualifying exam if you're going ABFAS route.

 

[HaimFeldman]

I can't see the number you guessed through the emojis ...

But we've publicized this before (~2022) and calculated it by the percent that pass each of the 6 parts (to achieve RRA, aka the residency curriculum) and how you must proceed from Didactic to CBPS to Cases in Foot and RRA and found it could be no higher than 32%.

Transparency would require stating how many people completed the process divided by how many started the process for a given residency graduation year.

That prompted a cease and desist letter from ABFAS.

I framed it and put it above the urinal.

Cease and desist for asking questions that should be public?
What a bunch of Plantar Fascists.