ABFAS is raising the cost of exam fees

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Hilarious. These guys are the absolute biggest scam. 4 part exam, now each exam will cost $475 EACH. And that’s on top of the $225 application fee. They blamed inflation in the email for the change. More like greed.
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IronTalus said:
ABFAS ignores the call to be transparent, fair and work with ABPM on making a single exam, and answers with a cost hike. Boycott ABFAS. Greedy
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Yeah, but consider the Warren Buffett "price is what you pay, value is what you get" idiom:

ABFAS is a cert that costs studying and money... then it helps a ton for hospitals and many good DPM jobs require it, shows proficiency and exp. A bit of studying never made anyone a worse doc either?

ABPM is a cracker jack box certificate that every DPM has, everyone passes. It still costs money... but few jobs respect it, won't cut it at many hospitals (for surgery privi)... merely having it shows that you can't pass ABFAS (or didn't yet). It may be ultra-easy and a bit cheaper, but what value do you get?

...as far as pricing for my office or my personal life, I don't think there is a single service or supply that I buy that hasn't gone up in price in the last 10yrs (most have raised in the last single year... some things raised multiple times).

If you don't see the value of ABFAS, ok. Save your $100 and be invisible to probably half the jobs (and 80% of the good org jobs) available to DPMs. Even for a basic job with PP, they'd choose ABFAS BQ/BC over not in 9/10 cases (assuming both applied and were otherwise similar). GL
 
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Feli said:
Yeah, but consider the Warren Buffett "price is what you pay, value is what you get" idiom:

ABFAS is a cert that costs studying and money... then it helps a ton for hospitals and many good DPM jobs require it, shows proficiency and exp. A bit of studying never made anyone a worse doc either?

ABPM is a cracker jack box certificate that every DPM has, everyone passes. It still costs money... but few jobs respect it, won't cut it at many hospitals (for surgery privi)... merely having it shows that you can't pass ABFAS (or didn't yet). It may be ultra-easy and a bit cheaper, but what value do you get?

...as far as pricing for my office or my personal life, I don't think there is a single service or supply that I buy that hasn't gone up in price in the last 10yrs (most have raised in the last single year... some things raised multiple times).

If you don't see the value of ABFAS, ok. Save your $100 and be invisible to probably half the jobs (and 80% of the good jobs) available to DPMs. Even for a basic job with PP, they'd choose ABFAS BQ/BC or not in 9/10 cases (assuming both applied and were otherwise similar). GL
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As someone who has taken both recently…ABPM absolutely writes better test questions than ABFAS. Just wish they’d test on less old school podiatry orthotic stuff. ABFAS didactic is a huge joke. Really poorly written questions. Have no idea why they need more money to write such poor exams.

A combination of the exam/board would absolutely be the best thing for our profession. They both have strengths/weaknesses. Problem is the ACFAS crew has huge egos when in reality they’re just podiatrists
 
MortonExtension said:
As someone who has taken both recently…ABPM absolutely writes better test questions than ABFAS. Just wish they’d test on less old school podiatry orthotic stuff. ABFAS didactic is a huge joke. Really poorly written questions. Have no idea why they need more money to write such poor exams.

A combination of the exam/board would absolutely be the best thing for our profession. They both have strengths/weaknesses. Problem is the ACFAS crew has huge egos when in reality they’re just podiatrists
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To be fair, the ABFAS LEAD tests are extremely well written. Stuff anyone doing big person surgery should no. Minimal ambiguity. Maybe the LEAD writers can do the certification writing
 
Also, I just got certified in a new state....very large, lots of podiatrists....it says I have "ankle certification" not sure how you get that with ABPM.
 
Just did a quick calculation of the membership dues and certification fees I am paying to sustain this career:

ABFAS: $440
ACFAS: $660
ABPM: $550
CA License: $1318/2 years
DEA: $888/3 years

Annual burden of $2605. About the same cost of my homeowner's insurance.
 
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msion said:
Just did a quick calculation of the membership dues and certification fees I am paying to sustain this career:

ABFAS: $440
ACFAS: $660
ABPM: $550
CA License: $1318/2 years
DEA: $888/3 years

Annual burden of $2605. About the same cost of my homeowner's insurance.
Click to expand...
Why are you paying for acfas? Huge scam. Same dudes as abfas too. They have a grip on this profession.
 
msion said:
Just did a quick calculation of the membership dues and certification fees I am paying to sustain this career:

ABFAS: $440
ACFAS: $660
ABPM: $550
CA License: $1318/2 years
DEA: $888/3 years

Annual burden of $2605. About the same cost of my homeowner's insurance.
Click to expand...
Doesn't your employer pay those? Whenever I get these bills I am excited to use it as free spend on a credit card sign up bonus

Also ABPM when you have ABFAS lolz
 
Real foot and ankle surgeons? You talking about F&A ortho?
Nobody here is getting paid like that (unless you are, then drop some numbers for inspo)
Here's the real talk: there's no demand (and definitely no $) for "real foot and ankle surgeons" unless:
- you are actually ortho (duh)
- you get lucky and get picked out of 100s of other applicants for a handful of good jobs that were already more likely to get taken by those who already have experience (exhibit A: airbud - seriously I think he just applies to jobs for fun just so he can turn them down) or have insider connections ("it's who you know"...and is regardless of what board you have).
- you go rural (...yay? is that what you had in mind?)
Otherwise have fun in associate hell - I hear foot and ankle surgery "pays so well" 😕

As for the topic at hand - I won't call ABFAS an outright scam, but:
- having multiple fees built into even simple qualification is scammy
- splitting the exam into forefoot and rearfoot is scammy
- CPBS is scammy, and doesn't test for anything that can't already be asked in the didactic section of the exam; I'd much prefer an oral-based exam if they really had to do something like *that*.
But feel free to CMV
 
Sole Badguy said:
Real foot and ankle surgeons? You talking about F&A ortho?
Nobody here is getting paid like that (unless you are, then drop some numbers for inspo)
Here's the real talk: there's no demand (and definitely no $) for "real foot and ankle surgeons" unless:
- you are actually ortho (duh)
- you get lucky and get picked out of 100s of other applicants for a handful of good jobs that were already more likely to get taken by those who already have experience (exhibit A: airbud - seriously I think he just applies to jobs for fun just so he can turn them down) or have insider connections ("it's who you know"...and is regardless of what board you have).
- you go rural (...yay? is that what you had in mind?)
Otherwise have fun in associate hell - I hear foot and ankle surgery "pays so well" 😕

As for the topic at hand - I won't call ABFAS an outright scam, but:
- having multiple fees built into even simple qualification is scammy
- splitting the exam into forefoot and rearfoot is scammy
- CPBS is scammy, and doesn't test for anything that can't already be asked in the didactic section of the exam; I'd much prefer an oral-based exam if they really had to do something like *that*.
But feel free to CMV
Click to expand...
For the record I turned down an IHS job that required a lot of travel, declined to interview in person for a good hospital job that required a lot of travel, declined to interview for an ortho job with no travel but a non op pod reitiring and a F/A ortho in a group. And trust me bro, until that contract is signed....you got nothing. Had a fantastic full scope job (recon, ankle trauma etc , no foot/ankle ortho in the city, walk into 10k RVUS and 2 days OR job rug pulled at last second as the local ortho group dissolved and the hospital decided to hire their pod since already prvileged. They contacted my references, multiple people with org told me it was my job. If this happened 6 weeks prior to interview that was my job.
 
Sole Badguy said:
Real foot and ankle surgeons? You talking about F&A ortho?
Nobody here is getting paid like that (unless you are, then drop some numbers for inspo)
Here's the real talk: there's no demand (and definitely no $) for "real foot and ankle surgeons" unless:
- you are actually ortho (duh)
- you get lucky and get picked out of 100s of other applicants for a handful of good jobs that were already more likely to get taken by those who already have experience (exhibit A: airbud - seriously I think he just applies to jobs for fun just so he can turn them down) or have insider connections ("it's who you know"...and is regardless of what board you have).
- you go rural (...yay? is that what you had in mind?)
Otherwise have fun in associate hell - I hear foot and ankle surgery "pays so well" 😕

As for the topic at hand - I won't call ABFAS an outright scam, but:
- having multiple fees built into even simple qualification is scammy
- splitting the exam into forefoot and rearfoot is scammy
- CPBS is scammy, and doesn't test for anything that can't already be asked in the didactic section of the exam; I'd much prefer an oral-based exam if they really had to do something like *that*.
But feel free to CMV
Click to expand...
I went rural for a hospital job. It certainly was not what I always had in mind, BUT having done so I would highly recommend it to anyone on this forum. I haven't been this happy since before podiatry- it still feels quite unreal to me.
 
Flip-flop-flerpity said:
I went rural for a hospital job. It certainly was not what I always had in mind, BUT having done so I would highly recommend it to anyone on this forum. I haven't been this happy since before podiatry- it still feels quite unreal to me.
Click to expand...
Very inspiring. Can you please mention whether or not your job required ABFAS? Or did ABPM work just as well?
 
Flip-flop-flerpity said:
I went rural for a hospital job. It certainly was not what I always had in mind, BUT having done so I would highly recommend it to anyone on this forum. I haven't been this happy since before podiatry- it still feels quite unreal to me.
Click to expand...
You mean getting paid well but not over worked, good benefits, respected by community and peers, loan help and non competition? Sounds boring.
 
PODIATRYCRAZE said:
Very inspiring. Can you please mention whether or not your job required ABFAS? Or did ABPM work just as well?
Click to expand...
I'm abfas certified. I spent about 6 months job hunting, applied to 3 hospital jobs, turned down 2 of them. Accepted on in a rural area, closest DPM is 30 minutes away. (The job I left was in an incredibly saturated area, was working 7 days most weeks, unreasonably busy clinic, after hours add ons, weekend rounds etc.). Current gig my base is 300k, I work 3 clinic days and 1 OR day a week, RVU rate is in the 90th percentile for podiatry based on MGMA data. 10 weeks vacation, no call, I do whatever trauma ortho passes off to me. I get fully covered heath dental and vision, they fund an HSA account too. And profit sharing. And yes to Airbud- very much respected by community and peers.
 
Flip-flop-flerpity said:
I'm abfas certified. I spent about 6 months job hunting, applied to 3 hospital jobs, turned down 2 of them. Accepted on in a rural area, closest DPM is 30 minutes away. (The job I left was in an incredibly saturated area, was working 7 days most weeks, unreasonably busy clinic, after hours add ons, weekend rounds etc.). Current gig my base is 300k, I work 3 clinic days and 1 OR day a week, RVU rate is in the 90th percentile for podiatry based on MGMA data. 10 weeks vacation, no call, I do whatever trauma ortho passes off to me. I get fully covered heath dental and vision, they fund an HSA account too. And profit sharing. And yes to Airbud- very much respected by community and peers.
Click to expand...
To repeat myself....everyone has a different definition of rural....I spent 4 years where the nearest pod was 1.5 to 2.5 hours away. But great job flippity floppity. I will be 300k base then 49 per RVU (certainly not 90th percentile). 3 days clinc/wound care center then 1-2 days in OR with trauma that Ortho doesn't do ( I think will pass almost everything.) maybe 5 weeks vacation. Seems like most docs don't work Fridays but I will be all production after 12-18 months. And paying off last 40k of loans. No Ortho F/a, nearest surgical pod/other hospital about an hour away.

Also, during my job search these numbers we see about average RVU is 53 in this region....55 in another (west) is a load of crap. I saw multiple places in the 30s...many in low 40s. 45 to 47 very very common. Yes we all know people speaking in high 60s at certain levels and base in the high 50s....but certainly outliers.

Edit - and negotiated higher. Was advertised at 280 20k signing. Asked for 300 and 40k I think, got 300 and 30k. Also 20k annual quality metrics. Interestingly the system is now advertising other locations at 300k max now instead of 280k.
 
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MortonExtension said:
Hilarious. These guys are the absolute biggest scam. 4 part exam, now each exam will cost $475 EACH. And that’s on top of the $225 application fee. They blamed inflation in the email for the change. More like greed.
Click to expand...
When private practice salaries going to increase due to inflation???
 
Sole Badguy said:
Real foot and ankle surgeons? You talking about F&A ortho?
Nobody here is getting paid like that (unless you are, then drop some numbers for inspo)
Here's the real talk: there's no demand (and definitely no $) for "real foot and ankle surgeons" unless:
- you are actually ortho (duh)
- you get lucky and get picked out of 100s of other applicants for a handful of good jobs that were already more likely to get taken by those who already have experience (exhibit A: airbud - seriously I think he just applies to jobs for fun just so he can turn them down) or have insider connections ("it's who you know"...and is regardless of what board you have).
- you go rural (...yay? is that what you had in mind?)
Otherwise have fun in associate hell - I hear foot and ankle surgery "pays so well" 😕

As for the topic at hand - I won't call ABFAS an outright scam, but:
- having multiple fees built into even simple qualification is scammy
- splitting the exam into forefoot and rearfoot is scammy
- CPBS is scammy, and doesn't test for anything that can't already be asked in the didactic section of the exam; I'd much prefer an oral-based exam if they really had to do something like *that*.
But feel free to CMV
Click to expand...
Food for thought.

My 2nd hospital gig I created the opportunity with a little self marketing. Got the job. Did cases nobody wanted (wounds and charcot). Then got a lot of foot and ankle trauma nobody wanted including current podiatrists in group. Then started building my own elective practice as well.

Two years later did 12k+ RVUs my 2nd year which was 650k+ total gross earned. Third year of contract pays me 90% of that as my new base salary.

So my new base is 600k+ guaranteed. Plus annual metric guarantee. I only have to generate 80% of previous numbers to maintain that salary. Of course if I am slower my third year then whatever total gross that year x 90% would be my new base for year four and so on. I could still bonus but I would have to do more RVUs than my new base threshold which is 10,900. Possible? yes.

But making ortho foot and ankle money in hospital system is possible but understandably incredibly rare. I am a one person show too (one nurse to support me) so I take an awful lot of life style hits to be so productive. It's a sacrifice I am willing to take because NOTHING in hospital employed podiatry lasts forever (see below).

Problem is of course is admin gets sick of paying me so much and hired another DPM or worse decides to hire foot and ankle ortho.

Hospital employment is mecca for this profession but as an employed doc you take what your master gives you. You are an employee after all.

Out of all the professions I have seen as an employed podiatrist with hospitals (two so far in my career) is that podiatry is the most expendable. Why? No respect from admin and other specialties in my opinion. We are not valued. We are a luxury service. Plus the saturation in this profession makes us so easily replaceable.

I always feel very uneasy about my career and future despite how well I have performed. I give great care and have great outcomes. I have the ability to treat all pathology in foot and ankle and I STILL feel the heat when I have no reason to.
 
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Retrograde_Nail said:
Food for thought.

My 2nd hospital gig I created the opportunity with a little self marketing. Got the job. Did cases nobody wanted (wounds and charcot). Then got a lot of foot and ankle trauma nobody wanted including current podiatrists in group. Then started building my own elective practice as well.

Two years later did 12k+ RVUs my 2nd year which was 650k+ total gross earned. Third year of contract pays me 90% of that as my new base salary.

So my new base is 600k+ guaranteed. Plus annual metric guarantee. I only have to generate 80% of previous numbers to maintain that salary. Of course if I am slower my third year then whatever total gross that year x 90% would be my new base for year four and so on. I could still bonus but I would have to do more RVUs than my new base threshold which is 10,900. Possible? yes.

But making ortho foot and ankle money in hospital system is possible but understandably incredibly rare. I am a one person show too (one nurse to support me) so I take an awful lot of life style hits to be so productive. It's a sacrifice I am willing to take because NOTHING in hospital employed podiatry lasts forever (see below).

Problem is of course is admin gets sick of paying me so much and hired another DPM or worse decides to hire foot and ankle ortho.

Hospital employment is mecca for this profession but as an employed doc you take what your master gives you. You are an employee after all.

Out of all the professions I have seen as an employed podiatrist with hospitals (two so far in my career) is that podiatry is the most expendable. Why? No respect from admin and other specialties in my opinion. We are not valued. We are a luxury service. Plus the saturation in this profession makes us so easily replaceable.

I always feel very uneasy about my career and future despite how well I have performed. I give great care and have great outcomes. I have the ability to treat all pathology in foot and ankle and I STILL feel the heat when I have no reason to.
Click to expand...
My hospital is not replacing me. Foot ankle will run through Ortho. Wounds go to wound care center. Just like it was before, it will be again. Gone like dust in the world. The world goes on.

Edit - I told them they never should have hired me, they didn't need me. It's a small community hospital. They had a visiting podiatrist who would come a couple times a week and have a line out the door and people would wait for an hour or two... Oh oh oh we should hire our own podiatrist.....Turns out it was nail Care.... Fortunately did minimal nail Care and told all the people they didn't qualify and made administration mad.... I did more flat foot than bunions this last year. Oh podiatry....
 
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Retrograde_Nail said:
Food for thought.

My 2nd hospital gig I created the opportunity with a little self marketing. Got the job. Did cases nobody wanted (wounds and charcot). Then got a lot of foot and ankle trauma nobody wanted including current podiatrists in group. Then started building my own elective practice as well.

Two years later did 12k+ RVUs my 2nd year which was 650k+ total gross earned. Third year of contract pays me 90% of that as my new base salary.

So my new base is 600k+ guaranteed. Plus annual metric guarantee. I only have to generate 80% of previous numbers to maintain that salary. Of course if I am slower my third year then whatever total gross that year x 90% would be my new base for year four and so on. I could still bonus but I would have to do more RVUs than my new base threshold which is 10,900. Possible? yes.

But making ortho foot and ankle money in hospital system is possible but understandably incredibly rare. I am a one person show too (one nurse to support me) so I take an awful lot of life style hits to be so productive. It's a sacrifice I am willing to take because NOTHING in hospital employed podiatry lasts forever (see below).

Problem is of course is admin gets sick of paying me so much and hired another DPM or worse decides to hire foot and ankle ortho.

Hospital employment is mecca for this profession but as an employed doc you take what your master gives you. You are an employee after all.

Out of all the professions I have seen as an employed podiatrist with hospitals (two so far in my career) is that podiatry is the most expendable. Why? No respect from admin and other specialties in my opinion. We are not valued. We are a luxury service. Plus the saturation in this profession makes us so easily replaceable.

I always feel very uneasy about my career and future despite how well I have performed. I give great care and have great outcomes. I have the ability to treat all pathology in foot and ankle and I STILL feel the heat when I have no reason to.
Click to expand...
How much would you estimate F/A ortho would make putting up this amount of RVU?
 
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