ABIM Scam Artists

[dreamfox]

http://www.newsweek.com/ugly-civil-war-american-medicine-312662

Glad this is finally gaining more of a national spotlight in the public eye.

In the last 3 years, I've spent $1300 on internal medicine, $1000 on echocardiography boards, $2400 on general cardiology boards, and $3000 on electrophysiology boards. That's $7700 in three years. and that's just for exams - no materials and no review courses. If I were to include those, then I've probably spent about $12000. And they expect me to do this every 10 years in addition to that absolutely worthless MOC bull****?

PLEASE, for those of us still in training: DO NOT sign up for MOC. Enough is enough. We aren't here to furnish the pockets of these "doctors" (who probably haven't ever seen a real patient) who run the ABIM.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[DrBacchi]

What happens if you dont sign up for MOC? Can you stay board certified without it?

 

[gutonc]

What happens if you dont sign up for MOC? Can you stay board certified without it?

You can stay certified, but you won't be able to re-certify, at least according to the rules as they exist now. One question I can't find the answer to is, what happens if you let your certification lapse and then sign up to take the exam the next year? Obviously, if your contract or hospital privileges require you to be BC, this would be a problem. But I wonder if it would work.

Honestly, at this point, they're relying on us to be too scared to let it go because who knows what the situation will look like in 2, 5 or 10 years. That said, I don't think MOC, in one form or another, is going to go away.

 

[IMPD]

You can stay certified, but you won't be able to re-certify, at least according to the rules as they exist now. One question I can't find the answer to is, what happens if you let your certification lapse and then sign up to take the exam the next year? Obviously, if your contract or hospital privileges require you to be BC, this would be a problem. But I wonder if it would work.

Honestly, at this point, they're relying on us to be too scared to let it go because who knows what the situation will look like in 2, 5 or 10 years. That said, I don't think MOC, in one form or another, is going to go away.

I'm fascinated by the new Board idea. Apparently they will still require you to pass your initial certification exam. Truth is, making exams is a **** ton of work and I don't see that going away.

MOC is a good idea. Mistakes were made in implementation, which is par for the course. If we're going to be self-governing, we must commit to holding each other accountable. Do you really want your airline pilot "certifying" themselves? Or would you rather that they have to pass an objective test on a regular basis? Medical knowledge changes and practice rarely does. Conservatism is a useful and valid response in a field like ours. Willful disregard of best practice is not.

 

[atach]

I'm fascinated by the new Board idea. Apparently they will still require you to pass your initial certification exam. Truth is, making exams is a **** ton of work and I don't see that going away.

MOC is a good idea. Mistakes were made in implementation, which is par for the course. If we're going to be self-governing, we must commit to holding each other accountable. Do you really want your airline pilot "certifying" themselves? Or would you rather that they have to pass an objective test on a regular basis? Medical knowledge changes and practice rarely does. Conservatism is a useful and valid response in a field like ours. Willful disregard of best practice is not.

Let me guess:

1) you're in academics
2) you didnt subspecialize

MOC is a terrible idea. CME works just fine. Those of us in the real world dont have time to devote to meaningless tasks.

 

[wire]

How much does ABIM pay you?

I'm fascinated by the new Board idea. Apparently they will still require you to pass your initial certification exam. Truth is, making exams is a **** ton of work and I don't see that going away.

MOC is a good idea. Mistakes were made in implementation, which is par for the course. If we're going to be self-governing, we must commit to holding each other accountable. Do you really want your airline pilot "certifying" themselves? Or would you rather that they have to pass an objective test on a regular basis? Medical knowledge changes and practice rarely does. Conservatism is a useful and valid response in a field like ours. Willful disregard of best practice is not.

 

[group_theory]

You can stay certified, but you won't be able to re-certify, at least according to the rules as they exist now. .

For those who achieved certifications or re-certified in the past couple years, ABIM changed the rules. It is no longer a time-limited certification but more of a "you are certified if you maintain MOC". So if you don't sign up for MOC, and don't maintain MOC, then your certification (if achieved in the last 2 years) will no longer be valid and you are no longer "board-certified". Basically strong-arm tactics. Part of the reasons for the uproar (and why if you go to ABIM's website after their apology email, they have a disclaimer that certain people who are listed as NOT CERTIFIED due to not maintaining MOC may actually be certified but the changes (the ABIM suspension of certain MOC policies) haven't been made yet to the website)

Both my pulmonary and critical care certifications have no dates on them, but instead have this phrase: "Ongoing certification is contingent upon meeting the requirements of Maintenance of Certification". My pediatric certification says the exact same thing but at least it gives a start date on it (but no expiration date)

 

[dreamfox]

IMPD, status "Academic Administration". Shocking that you support MOC. Real doctors have patients to see and are continuously learning every day. I realize that's probably hard for somebody in your administrative position to comprehend.

 

[gutonc]

There's no need, or space for, personal attacks in this forum. Keep it professional or please go somewhere else.

 

[gutonc]

I think that MOC as an idea is completely reasonable. You know, we all learned in med school that 50% of what you learn today will be wrong in 10 years, the trick is knowing which half.

MOC as imiplemented by the ABIM OTOH is a total s***show and basically looks like nothing more than an attempt to make more money for themselves and nothing else. If they wanted to make more money (and who doesn't?), just increase the cost of the the exam. Easy peasy and, while people will bitch and moan, they'll still take the tests. If they wanted to make us prove we're keeping current in our specialty (a laudable goal), make us submit CME credit that we're all already doing to keep our licenses and privileges and STFU (which they kind of did).

I like MOC in theory (assuming we get rid of that whole grandfathering clause) but the way that ABIM implemented it makes it seem as if MOC stands for "Maintaining Our Cashflow".

 

[Ligament]

We are watching these developments in my subspecialty. Keep up the good fight IM brothers and sisters. You are being EXTORTED by people who claim to be your friend. A full on revolt is called for.

https://nbpas.org/debate-on-maintenance-of-certification/

Dear Colleague,


IF YOU HAVE COMMENTS ON THIS EMAIL PLEASE POST THEM ON NBPAS.org PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS EMAIL ADDRESS BECAUSE IT IS MY WORK EMAIL AND QUICKLY GETS OVERWHELMED.


I encourage you all to visit the first link below to a very interesting video of a debate I did last week at a meeting of the prestigious Association of Professors of Medicine (APM) against Richard Barron (CEO of ABIM) and Lois Nora (CEO of the umbrella organization, ABMS). I think you will find the data I present about certification and MOC pretty shocking. When I really dug into the papers containing the data supporting MOC I was amazed at how weak they are (weak is an understatement) and how every single supportive paper is written by a very highly paid ABIM or ABMS employee. It is nothing short of outrageous. The link is:


https://nbpas.org/debate-on-maintenance-of-certification/


It would be very helpful to spread this link around to your colleagues.


Finally, while we have received a fair amount of blogosphere press, today we got our first big mention in lay press, Newsweek. The print version of the Newsweek article publishes next week. The online version can be accessed now at:


http://www.newsweek.com/ugly-civil-war-american-medicine-312662




Paul Teirstein, M.D.

Scripps Clinic

10666 North Torrey Pines Road

La Jolla, CA 92037

Office: 858 554 9905