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For ABPN MOC, does anyone understand the difference between the 2 types? Does it make a difference in any way at all anyway?

Any help or explanation of the PIP and Self Assessment is helpful.

I completely understand the PAYMENT part and CME stuff.
 

psychattending

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I believe the main differences have to do with 1) payment schedule - yearly payments vs. one big payment at ten years and 2) a slight difference in the schedule. I am staying with the old schedule for now but will be force to go to the new one once I have to recertify.
 

michaelrack

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For ABPN MOC, does anyone understand the difference between the 2 types? Does it make a difference in any way at all anyway?

Any help or explanation of the PIP and Self Assessment is helpful.

I completely understand the PAYMENT part and CME stuff.
Self Assessment is pretty easy- you take a quiz prior to cme and then afterwards- Several organizations sell products that make it easy to do this ( http://www.beattheboards.com/ ). I have done SA through beattheboards, it is no big deal. I have not yet done PIP yet (you can also get this through beat the boards ), but my understanding is that it involves surveying other psychiatrists and patients about the quality of your work/performance, and then doing some type of quality improvement- sounds like a real pain.
 
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F0nzie

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I wonder how board certified admins will maintain certification if they are not engaged in clinical care.
 

OldPsychDoc

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There is a whole list of ABPN-approved PIP activities and Self-Assessment CME courses at the ABPN's website: http://www.abpn.com/moc_products.asp

My issue with the whole PIP process is that it's not so much onerous as it is trivial. Survey 5 patients and 5 peers using the ABPN-approved forms*. Review 5 charts*. Change something you do. Document it. Survey again. Repeat q 3 years.

*Nevermind that we get peer-reviewed every year by our institution, and that our patients get surveyed endlessly almost every time they have a clinic appointment--somehow the Board isn't accepting that.

One bit of good news though--if you have a sub-specialty certification, you can recertify that early, at the same time as the general recert, and get the two synchronized--so only one recert cycle to worry about.
 

F0nzie

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Also wondering how we can get peer feedback if we run a solo practice without peers to provide clinical feedback.
 

Doctor Bagel

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Also wondering how we can get peer feedback if we run a solo practice without peers to provide clinical feedback.
I think you can use people you know in the community, which likely isn't that meaningful. I think this whole process is bureaucratic nonsense, but then I'm still angry about my upcoming board examination fee, so I'm biased. I do think this type of stuff pushes against solo practitioners, especially solo practitioners who have a largely therapy based type of practice.
 

OldPsychDoc

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Also wondering how we can get peer feedback if we run a solo practice without peers to provide clinical feedback.
It doesn't have to be psychiatrists. Do you interface with community case managers, referring physicians, etc?
 
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vistaril

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It doesn't have to be psychiatrists. Do you interface with community case managers, referring physicians, etc?

He's exclusively cash pay and charges like 275-300 an hour or something like that. I can't imagine his patients and community case managers go together. The whole thing is just more useless hoops to jump through imo and seeing as how they are useless hoops there is usually some equally useless and feasible manner in which fonzie can complete these requirements as a solo practitioner. It may be a situation where fonzie tracks down someone else in a similar situation and they briefly run a case or two by the other and sign the others forms.
 

OldPsychDoc

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He's exclusively cash pay and charges like 275-300 an hour or something like that. I can't imagine his patients and community case managers go together. The whole thing is just more useless hoops to jump through imo and seeing as how they are useless hoops there is usually some equally useless and feasible manner in which fonzie can complete these requirements as a solo practitioner. It may be a situation where fonzie tracks down someone else in a similar situation and they briefly run a case or two by the other and sign the others forms.
It doesn't even involve cases. It's just a frickin' 1 page form. Surely he knows 5 other health professionals in his county. http://www.abpn.com/downloads/moc/PIP_peer_feedback_v1.pdf
For that matter, he could probably ask 5 of us to fill them out for him....
 
OP
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This is what I was talking about originally, there is a board certification that is without PIP. That is the different between the difference types right?
There is a $500 beat the boards 4 year package with 32 SA and 79 CME.
Is that the best one?
 
OP
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Fonzie, the people who are on the board to make the rules for certification aren't even certified themselves and if they are, they aren't doing MOC.
 

michaelrack

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This is what I was talking about originally, there is a board certification that is without PIP. That is the different between the difference types right?
There is a $500 beat the boards 4 year package with 32 SA and 79 CME.
Is that the best one?
http://www.100moc.com/ This is the only one I can currently find from beat the boards. I purchased 2012 (one year) and then 2013 (I can't remember if this is a multiyear subscription). I do have access to PIP for 2013, but I haven't even looked at it. I have been busy trying to do my Internal medicine recert. The ABIM's version of PIP really sucks
 

michaelrack

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Fonzie, the people who are on the board to make the rules for certification aren't even certified themselves and if they are, they aren't doing MOC.
All of the boards are doing MOC now, to the best of my knowledge. For older docs with lifetime certification, there will be some type of black mark notification on an official website if they are not doing MOC
 
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here's what i don't get: so for the patient and peer feedback, we're supposed to get 5 surveys from each group and then "identify opportunities for improvement and/or efficiency in their practice as related to the core competencies and take steps to implement improvements as needed."

1) what are the "core competencies?"

2) how are we supposed to document or prove that we have taken steps to implement improvements?

3) given that i'm probably going to solicit feedback from peers and patients that say good generally good things (because who wouldn't?), what am i supposed to do if the feedback i get is generally good and there's no obvious deficiency? (again, that's not to say that i have no room to improve, just that i'm going to self select people who are probably not going to identify any significant problems).

i've been wondering the answers to these questions ever since i learned about the MOC requirements but it's not clear to me where i could even get the answers to these questions at abpn.

as an aside, i'll reserve my further editorial comments on this whole process.
 

OldPsychDoc

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here's what i don't get: so for the patient and peer feedback, we're supposed to get 5 surveys from each group and then "identify opportunities for improvement and/or efficiency in their practice as related to the core competencies and take steps to implement improvements as needed."

1) what are the "core competencies?"

2) how are we supposed to document or prove that we have taken steps to implement improvements?

3) given that i'm probably going to solicit feedback from peers and patients that say good generally good things (because who wouldn't?), what am i supposed to do if the feedback i get is generally good and there's no obvious deficiency? (again, that's not to say that i have no room to improve, just that i'm going to self select people who are probably not going to identify any significant problems).

i've been wondering the answers to these questions ever since i learned about the MOC requirements but it's not clear to me where i could even get the answers to these questions at abpn.

as an aside, i'll reserve my further editorial comments on this whole process.
1) Core competencies--the 6 things listed on this feedback form. http://www.abpn.com/downloads/moc/PIP_peer_feedback_v1.pdf

2) Set up your folio at abpn.com and record it. Save the surveys in a nice manila file folder in case you get audited.

3) If you're really that good, join AA, do a searching and fearless moral inventory of yourself, get a sponsor, and pick something to change about yourself.

More answers at http://www.abpn.com/faq_quarterly3.html#Q2
 
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1) Core competencies--the 6 things listed on this feedback form. http://www.abpn.com/downloads/moc/PIP_peer_feedback_v1.pdf

2) Set up your folio at abpn.com and record it. Save the surveys in a nice manila file folder in case you get audited.

3) If you're really that good, join AA, do a searching and fearless moral inventory of yourself, get a sponsor, and pick something to change about yourself.

More answers at http://www.abpn.com/faq_quarterly3.html#Q2

thanks opd for this info. re: #2 i have a folio and understand that but in terms of the actual "improvement plan" am i just supposed to have some kind of word document (to show abpn in case of an audit) that lists a few things i will do to improve my practice based on the feedback i get?

and re: #3 i was concerned that i'd come across as some arrogant know-it-all. really, i'm not! i'm a young attending with PLENTY of room for growth and improvement. i just don't think that is going to be accurately captured by the folks i cherry pick for feedback.
 

OldPsychDoc

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thanks opd for this info. re: #2 i have a folio and understand that but in terms of the actual "improvement plan" am i just supposed to have some kind of word document (to show abpn in case of an audit) that lists a few things i will do to improve my practice based on the feedback i get?

and re: #3 i was concerned that i'd come across as some arrogant know-it-all. really, i'm not! i'm a young attending with PLENTY of room for growth and improvement. i just don't think that is going to be accurately captured by the folks i cherry pick for feedback.
Don't cherry pick--just hand them out on a random day of clinic or something.