Academia question

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Syphax

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I am currently just about halfway through an MS in experimental psychology, with a research emphasis in religion. I have always known that I wanted to teach for my career - and have time to do things like write books and record music. Basically, I have a few hobbies.

At first I figured I would go for the "holy grail" in academia, which is a tenure-track position at a research university. I could do research in religion in several areas: clinical, social, developmental. But I have begun to rethink that. I'm not crazy about the idea of killing myself with research, research, research (I'm very bad at math and statistics, so much so that I suspect I might have a mild learning disorder in just that area) and having my teaching take a back seat, and from what I understand, professors are researchers foremost and the teaching is something that is on the side.

My advisor (who is also the department chair) told me that I should look into clinical psychology, because this would allow me to work at a clinical practice on the one hand, and teach a few adjunct classes at a university on the side (or at a community college or small teaching college). He said that clinical psychologists get more jobs in academia than social psychologists, and that basically social psychology is completely glutted right now with researchers wanting to get a job at a university. The clinical way means I could focus on my teaching without feeling like I'm being weighed down with the expectation of research. It would also give me the flexibility to record music and write on the side if I want to do those things as well.

The university I'm at has a PsyD program that will transfer a few of my Master's credits, and the other thing about it is that it is funded. My advisor told me that I could not only teach classes at this university but also continue publishing research with him (I've already published one thing with him), and the program is trying to get more heavily into research. The program is currently being reviewed for APA accreditation and will probably achieve this at the end of this year (though no guarantees). I am married with one kid and another kid is on the way, so it's attractive to me not having to move across the country again.

Of course, I will be applying to many social, developmental, and clinical programs, but this will be the only PsyD program I will apply to. I am wondering whether my plan makes sense, or if I'm shooting myself in the academic foot by considering a PsyD? As I said above, my primary goal is to teach.

One last note, as if this weren't long enough. There is one thing I'd like to do other than teach, and that is international work (foreign service, WHO, etc.). It seems to me that having a clinical doctorate would give me a possible career here as well.
 
I am currently just about halfway through an MS in experimental psychology, with a research emphasis in religion. I have always known that I wanted to teach for my career - and have time to do things like write books and record music. Basically, I have a few hobbies.

At first I figured I would go for the "holy grail" in academia, which is a tenure-track position at a research university. I could do research in religion in several areas: clinical, social, developmental. But I have begun to rethink that. I'm not crazy about the idea of killing myself with research, research, research (I'm very bad at math and statistics, so much so that I suspect I might have a mild learning disorder in just that area) and having my teaching take a back seat, and from what I understand, professors are researchers foremost and the teaching is something that is on the side.

My advisor (who is also the department chair) told me that I should look into clinical psychology, because this would allow me to work at a clinical practice on the one hand, and teach a few adjunct classes at a university on the side (or at a community college or small teaching college). He said that clinical psychologists get more jobs in academia than social psychologists, and that basically social psychology is completely glutted right now with researchers wanting to get a job at a university. The clinical way means I could focus on my teaching without feeling like I'm being weighed down with the expectation of research. It would also give me the flexibility to record music and write on the side if I want to do those things as well.

The university I'm at has a PsyD program that will transfer a few of my Master's credits, and the other thing about it is that it is funded. My advisor told me that I could not only teach classes at this university but also continue publishing research with him (I've already published one thing with him), and the program is trying to get more heavily into research. The program is currently being reviewed for APA accreditation and will probably achieve this at the end of this year (though no guarantees). I am married with one kid and another kid is on the way, so it's attractive to me not having to move across the country again.

Of course, I will be applying to many social, developmental, and clinical programs, but this will be the only PsyD program I will apply to. I am wondering whether my plan makes sense, or if I'm shooting myself in the academic foot by considering a PsyD? As I said above, my primary goal is to teach.

One last note, as if this weren't long enough. There is one thing I'd like to do other than teach, and that is international work (foreign service, WHO, etc.). It seems to me that having a clinical doctorate would give me a possible career here as well.

You will very likely have to move for internship. And even again for post-doc. So get the staying local idea out of your head. Moreover, clinical psych is full of non stop hurdles as well..I would read some of the other threads on here about the internship problem and suppressed salaries (compared to 20-30 years ago).

And yes, if you want to get any permanent faculty positions (not just adjunct teaching gigs...which pay ****, btw), even at SLACs, the Psy.D will hurt that chance signficantly.
 
You will very likely have to move for internship. And even again for post-doc. So get the staying local idea out of your head. Moreover, clinical psych is full of non stop hurdles as well..I would read some of the other threads on here about the internship problem and suppressed salaries (compared to 20-30 years ago).

And yes, if you want to get any permanent faculty positions (not just adjunct teaching gigs...which pay ****, btw), even at SLACs, the Psy.D will hurt that chance signficantly.

Agreed, although compared to social psych, a clinical degree probably has more career flexibility. I also agree with erg that in the majority of cases, a Psy.D. isn't going to do you any favors when it comes to academia, and that you should also likely abandon hopes of not moving should you go the clinical route. People with significant geographical limitations can and do make it through, but they're at a pretty hefty disadvantage when it comes time for internship.

Have you considered looking into more teaching-focused universities, such as liberal arts colleges and the like? Positions in those institutions tend to have a significantly-reduced research component in exchange for a much greater teaching load. Not sure what the pay looks like, but I know a woman from my university (in cognitive, no clinical) went that route and was very happy with the hiring package she got.
 
Agreed, although compared to social psych, a clinical degree probably has more career flexibility. I also agree with erg that in the majority of cases, a Psy.D. isn't going to do you any favors when it comes to academia, and that you should also likely abandon hopes of not moving should you go the clinical route. People with significant geographical limitations can and do make it through, but they're at a pretty hefty disadvantage when it comes time for internship.

Have you considered looking into more teaching-focused universities, such as liberal arts colleges and the like? Positions in those institutions tend to have a significantly-reduced research component in exchange for a much greater teaching load. Not sure what the pay looks like, but I know a woman from my university (in cognitive, no clinical) went that route and was very happy with the hiring package she got.

Yes, that is my primary plan - universities that focus more on teaching. And since my interest is mainly in teaching and not one particular branch of psychology (social, developmental, personality, clinical, even health), my other question would basically be which branches of psychology right now would put me in the best position to teach? For instance, someone told me that there are fewer developmental jobs, but also far less competition for those jobs, so much so that developmental is a good area to get into. Does anyone have any ideas along those lines?
 
You should be aware that a clinical psych program will also require a stat component and your dissertation will probably require statistical proficiency. And as stated above your internship will most likely require you to move. if you are on the experimental psych route I think you are better continuing with that.
 
Do you like clinical work? If you don't even like it somewhat, you will be miserable in a clinical PsyD program. Don't enter clinical psych just because it's less competitive for academia.
 
Do you like clinical work? If you don't even like it somewhat, you will be miserable in a clinical PsyD program. Don't enter clinical psych just because it's less competitive for academia.

Agreed. Also do you have any clinical experiences on your CV? Although I am a clinical PhD myself, I suspect PsyD's want you to have some clinical experiences in order to be considered for their program. It is important for PhD's too (but much less important than research experiences).

Best of luck,
Dr. E
 
Not sure what the pay looks like, but I know a woman from my university (in cognitive, no clinical) went that route and was very happy with the hiring package she got.

I know someone who just got a social psych SLAC job: 2-2 teaching load, some startup lab funding, $70,000/yr salary. I also just saw a community college psych job listing with a load of TEN classes during the academic year (presumably 5-5), $45,000-70,000. Both of these jobs are in an expensive area to live. I've posted this elsewhere, but you can search UC and Cal State teachers' salaries at the Sacramento Bee website (all state employees, actually), so if you want to see what the folks who've been tenured for a while are getting, it's all there.

OP, maybe I didn't read closely enough, but do you have teaching experience? Can you get some (say, running study groups for UGs)? You may find that you don't like it (though most likely you wouldn't find that out until you have the opportunity to grade students--that's when the real fun starts). I was passionate about teaching before I went to grad school, but the students kinda beat that passion out of me. Also, be aware of the economics of adjuncthood as well--it's not really a viable moneymaker so much as a way to "supplement" one's income.
 
OP, maybe I didn't read closely enough, but do you have teaching experience? Can you get some (say, running study groups for UGs)? You may find that you don't like it (though most likely you wouldn't find that out until you have the opportunity to grade students--that's when the real fun starts). I was passionate about teaching before I went to grad school, but the students kinda beat that passion out of me. Also, be aware of the economics of adjuncthood as well--it's not really a viable moneymaker so much as a way to "supplement" one's income.


I am interested in knowing more about how the students beat the passion out of you.
I thought it was just me who was abused by students.
 
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