Leaving Academia

[Wendi22]

I went into academia for research, collaboration, and teaching. However, there are some significant issues with the program and I am unhappy with the position. I am interested in leaving and for certain reasons have considered looking outside of academia. Does anyone here have any experience with transitioning out of academia?

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[erg923]

I went into academia for research, collaboration, and teaching. However, there are some significant issues with the program and I am unhappy with the position. I am interested in leaving and for certain reasons have considered looking outside of academia. Does anyone here have any experience with transitioning out of academia?

I mean, it depends on exactly what you mean?

I transitioned from a R3 college to a VA medical center years ago...and then subsequently out of any clinical service work all together (at least full-time) 4 years ago. You want to transition to private practice, just something else, or out of direct clinical service all together?

My subsequent opinion about R1/R2 academic Clinical Psychology was formed years ago and is best personified by the Animal House quote of: So, some guys wants to dress a Kleenex Box and parade it around town...RA-RA....

 

[Wendi22]

I picked academia because I do not enjoy full-time clinical work and wanted research opportunities. Now I’m wondering if there are other jobs out there where I can do research but outside academia. I can’t publicly share all of the reasons why the position is bad but low pay is certainly one of the many.

 

[erg923]

I picked academia because I do not enjoy full-time clinical work and wanted research opportunities. Now I’m wondering if there are other jobs out there where I can do research but outside academia. I can’t publicly share all of the reasons why the position is bad but low pay is certainly one of the many.

Rand? Psychometrics and test research at various universities? And Humana and Centene have room at times for population health research/researchers and statisticians that have clinically-informed backgrounds.

 

[Wendi22]

Rand? And Humana and Centene have some room at times for population health research/researchers and statisticians that have clinically-informed backgrounds.

Thank you! I’ll look into those.

 

[Mojito_15]

I went into academia for research, collaboration, and teaching. However, there are some significant issues with the program and I am unhappy with the position. I am interested in leaving and for certain reasons have considered looking outside of academia. Does anyone here have any experience with transitioning out of academia?

I was an "assistant clinical professor," which was what my R2 called lecturers- NTT. I was in that role for 4 years before moving into clinical work. I don't have any interest in re-entering full-time academia. I don't love my current position either- but I like it more than what I was doing. You might join the FB group "The Professor is Out" there are many jobs posted around that are research jobs that academics are good matches for.

 

[futureapppsy2]

I picked academia because I do not enjoy full-time clinical work and wanted research opportunities. Now I’m wondering if there are other jobs out there where I can do research but outside academia. I can’t publicly share all of the reasons why the position is bad but low pay is certainly one of the many.

What don't you like about academia specifically? That will help guide what good option you have--for example, if you don't like grant pressure, then working for a research corporation won't be a good fit, etc.

 

[Wendi22]

Grant pressure is fine. I wish there were more research and grant writing resources. Im at a teaching university. I was told when I interviewed that the faculty and students really enjoy research and would collaborate. To be honest, that is not the case for this particular program. The students are open about disliking research. There does not seem to be a balance between clinical work and research. There are several other issues but it would narrow down the identity of the program.

 

[futureapppsy2]

Grant pressure is fine. I wish there were more research and grant writing resources. Im at a teaching university. I was told when I interviewed that the faculty and students really enjoy research and would collaborate. To be honest, that is not the case for this particular program. The students are open about disliking research. There does not seem to be a balance between clinical work and research. There are several other issues but it would narrow down the identity of the program.

Have you tried applying for jobs at R1s? That might be more your speed. Some other options:
-University-affiliated research institutes
-Independent research institutes (RTI, Mathematica, etc)
-Think tanks
-Government agencies (NIH)
-VA MIRECCs
-AMCs

 

[Ollie123]

Tons of options:
- It actually sounds like you "might" be happy in academia, but would want a more research-focused place. Whether you would be competitive for those positions I do not know but they certainly exist. This would also likely mitigate the pay issue. I'm not sure I know anyone in an AMC research position earning less than 100k. Which isn't fabulously wealthy, but I'm guessing is far better than a teaching institution.
- A lot also depends on your background/interests/skills. Assessment/psychometrics? Digital interventions? Psychophysiology? Psych epidemiology? You could work for testing companies, RAND/RTI or similar, government research job (CDC, state health dept), government administrative job (NIH Program Official, FDA), one of umpteen mhealth startups, one of umpteen "we made an EHR interface tool thing-y" startups, journalism science writing, professional grant writing agencies, you can step into professional research roles as a lab manager that may or may not pay more than a teaching institute (i.e., my post-doc makes 60k, we have PhD level "lab managers" make 70-80k at entry that can escalate to 100k+ with experience). AMCs hire comical amounts of admin support staff to support the burgeoning bureaucracy and whims of leadership. The list goes on.

Can take some time to weave your way into these roles, but , if you have diverse interests, a foundational skillset and a willingness to learn the options are out there. People get too locked into the "clinician or professor" dichotomy in this field.

 

[borne_before]

How far out from tenure are you?

 

[Wendi22]

Tons of options:
- It actually sounds like you "might" be happy in academia, but would want a more research-focused place. Whether you would be competitive for those positions I do not know but they certainly exist. This would also likely mitigate the pay issue. I'm not sure I know anyone in an AMC research position earning less than 100k. Which isn't fabulously wealthy, but I'm guessing is far better than a teaching institution.
- A lot also depends on your background/interests/skills. Assessment/psychometrics? Digital interventions? Psychophysiology? Psych epidemiology? You could work for testing companies, RAND/RTI or similar, government research job (CDC, state health dept), government administrative job (NIH Program Official, FDA), one of umpteen mhealth startups, one of umpteen "we made an EHR interface tool thing-y" startups, journalism science writing, professional grant writing agencies, you can step into professional research roles as a lab manager that may or may not pay more than a teaching institute (i.e., my post-doc makes 60k, we have PhD level "lab managers" make 70-80k at entry that can escalate to 100k+ with experience). AMCs hire comical amounts of admin support staff to support the burgeoning bureaucracy and whims of leadership. The list goes on.

Can take some time to weave your way into these roles, but , if you have diverse interests, a foundational skillset and a willingness to learn the options are out there. People get too locked into the "clinician or professor" dichotomy in this field.

Thank you! I’m going to look into these options.

 

[Wendi22]

How far out from tenure are you?

Pretty far. I’m in my first year on tenure track.

 

[Wendi22]

Have you tried applying for jobs at R1s? That might be more your speed. Some other options:
-University-affiliated research institutes
-Independent research institutes (RTI, Mathematica, etc)
-Think tanks
-Government agencies (NIH)
-VA MIRECCs
-AMCs

I primarily applied to R2 and teaching universities. Took the current job because location was good, pay was a little higher, and it seemed like it was going to be a good fit.

 

[Mojito_15]

Grant pressure is fine. I wish there were more research and grant writing resources. Im at a teaching university. I was told when I interviewed that the faculty and students really enjoy research and would collaborate. To be honest, that is not the case for this particular program. The students are open about disliking research. There does not seem to be a balance between clinical work and research. There are several other issues but it would narrow down the identity of the program.

This was also true of the R2 I worked at. They also said that there would be mentorship opportunities to support new faculty and grow in research. New faculty were constantly disappointed.

 

[summerbabe]

They also said that there would be mentorship opportunities to support new faculty and grow in research. New faculty were constantly disappointed.

“We really value work-life balance at our organization” ———> Immediately assign more work than what fits into your schedule

 

[clausewitz2]

“We really value work-life balance at our organization” ———> Immediately assign more work than what fits into your schedule

"We think wellness is critical for our employees" ---> mandatory after work yoga

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

"We think wellness is critical for our employees" ---> mandatory after work yoga

During fellowship we did an "after work" yoga...and most of the time multiple people would fall asleep at some point, and the teacher was super nice and she would just let them/us sleep. After the final cooldown she'd gently nudge anyone who fell asleep and she'd use a kindergarten teacher voice, which was a really nice way to wake up. Bite guards were included w our health insurance, which was highlighted during orientation...I wish I were kidding. Yay R1 pressure!

 

[Sanman]

During fellowship we did an "after work" yoga...and most of the time multiple people would fall asleep at some point, and the teacher was super nice and she would just let them/us sleep. After the final cooldown she'd gently nudge anyone who fell asleep and she'd use a kindergarten teacher voice, which was a really nice way to wake up. Bite guards were included w our health insurance, which was highlighted during orientation...I wish I were kidding. Yay R1 pressure!

During internship, we had during work yoga. #VAlife

 

[smalltownpsych]

During fellowship we did an "after work" yoga...and most of the time multiple people would fall asleep at some point, and the teacher was super nice and she would just let them/us sleep. After the final cooldown she'd gently nudge anyone who fell asleep and she'd use a kindergarten teacher voice, which was a really nice way to wake up. Bite guards were included w our health insurance, which was highlighted during orientation...I wish I were kidding. Yay R1 pressure!

View attachment 362279
Got to make sure those rabid postdocs aren’t biting people!