Academic Advice, Please? [WARNING: Long Post]

[farodrig]

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Hi, I'm sorry this is such a long post but thank you to anyone who can push through and read it so that they may give me advice.

I'm currently a student at Syracuse University currently finishing up 2nd semester of freshman year. I am an Environmental Engineering student on the pre-med track and with possible math & chemistry minors. With my required engineering and pre-med courses I can obtain a chemistry minor without taking any extra classes. And I figured I could also get a math minor since it only requires two extra classes.

I came in with nearly 30 credits which include Spanish, American Gov't & Politics, Writing, Music Theory and selected topics in Environmental Science.

I pretty much made a layout of the classes I need to take for my next three years but I'm really worried. I have a friend in the pre-med program with me as well but the difference is that she isn't in engineering. She managed to get a 4.0 last semester but I took engineering courses which are harder than the regular courses that most pre-med students take so I ended up with a measly 3.28. I honestly don't know if this is what I should be doing, I mean I love what I'm studying but will it be too much work so that I won't be able to concentrate and do well in my pre-med requisites?

I have always dreamed of going to medical school so obtaining this engineering degree is sort of more like 'just for fun' for me. I know only I know what I can handle, which is generally a lot of work but it ends with maybe a B+/A- result. I really want to do well in my pre-med courses but I hear that engineering is a good major to go with even though it may be difficult and add to the hard work in pre-med.

I really am a hard worker, so I am my biggest critic. I'm not necessarily a perfectionist but I always want to do really well so I generally don't like B's...or even A-'s for that matter. Certain subjects don't come easy to me as my classmates (for example math) so I have to work extra hard to keep up. I can do fine in humanities and social sciences (I am a musician after all and for some reason they come more naturally) but I have to work really hard in the math & sciences courses (which I actually enjoy learning as much or maybe a little more). The difference between me and them is that I don't necessarily work (more like can't work) just to try and learn the minimum to do well in classes. I work and study so that I actually KNOW what I'm studying and so that I may keep it with me for hopefully my life. This probably inhibits me from doing just what's asked of me and probably hurts my grades because I spend so much time going over things that won't be on the test.

Another issue I have is that engineering is a 4-year program and so every year has atleast three-four classes that I MUST take. Then my being in pre-med takes up ANY space that my 30 transferred credits might have cleared. Actually, I'm currently looking at taking 17-19 credits every single semester. I have no room for classes I may want to take that aren't required! I mean aren't you supposed to enjoy the aspect of college of being able to take classes that you are interested in or maybe have no idea what they're about? My school only allows you to take up to 19 units without paying extra. If I wish to take more I'd have to apply to the honors program, but it comes with a consequence because they require you to take other classes (that are unnecessary for my major) for them too!

Also, an idea I've been playing around with. Should I try and transfer to a bigger name school? I'm from Los Angeles so I really don't know how "prestigious" Syracuse University is besides their athletics. The reason I wonder is because the only students I hear about that are accepted into med schools from here are those accepted to SUNY Upstate. Which I would definitely be grateful for, but as much as I love Syracuse…I don't think I would really want to spend a total of 8-10 years here.

As for my transferred credit how do I go about my English requisites for pre-med? Do I have to take English courses, or do medical schools accepted my AP credit. If so, do I have to take the classes I received credit for or am I allowed to take the higher writing courses offered by my school? I wasn't sure if they meant "take the first 2 English courses" or "take any two English courses." Don't medical schools also require you to take humanities courses? Well I mean more like advise, right?

I don't know if this may help but me and my engineering and pre-med advisor figured out when to take the pre-med requisites. Feel free to suggest any changes.

Freshman Year:
Fall – Calculus 1, Chem 1, Chem 1 Lab
Spring – Calculus 2, Chem 2, Chem 2 Lab, Physics 1, Physics 1 Lab
Sophomore Year:
Fall – Org-Chem 1, Org-Chem 1 Lab
Spring – Org-Chem 2, Org-Chem 2 Lab, Physics 2, Physics 2 Lab
Junior Year: (contingent, might take Bio courses at my university but during the post-spring semester session after sophomore year because I might take my two extra math classes junior year)
Fall – Bio 1, Bio 1 Lab
Spring – Bio 2, Bio 2 Lab, Physical Chemistry 1(required of my major)
Senior Year:
Fall – can't fit anything due to required Senior Engineering classes but I do take Environmental Chemistry Analysis and Applied Environmental Microbiology which are also required of my major. They aren't part of the Chemistry or Biology department, but they're a part of the Engineering department.
Spring – Structural and Physical Biochemistry, Genetics & Cell Biology I, Genetics & Cell Biology 2

Note: My math and physics courses are the engineering courses, not regular pre-med ones so they're a bit more challenging. :/
Also this summer I will be studying abroad and taking two Health Policy courses.

So I guess my list of questions consists of:
1. Should I follow through with engineering?
2. Should I possibly stay here 5 years? (money might be an issue)
3. What should I do since med schools prefer a diverse academic background and not only requirements?
4. Do I try and transfer to a bigger name school? Or is this school sufficient?
5. What do I do for English? Do I need another year or is AP credit enough.
6. Personally, what do you suggest I do with my issue of inherently overworking to understand a subject? (not something I can easily change, trust me I've tried)
7. Am I the only one having trouble with this? Haha, I honestly can't find someone who's done the same track as me so that they may give me advice so I guess that's mostly why I'm here.

In case of some reason medical school doesn't work out I could definitely be an Environmental Engineer. Having a Biomedical Engineering degree wouldn't make things easier for me because the classes that also happen to be pre-med for them are coincidentally the same for Environmental Engineers. Besides, I would not like to be a Biomedical engineer because it's not as interesting to me as Environmental Engineer. And I personally believe that people should not work as something they do not like if they can avoid it…


Like I said, thank you to anyone who stuck it through and read my sob story. I appreciate anyone that may be able to answer any of my questions or even give me a shred of advice. Opinions are gladly welcomed as well! 🙂

 

[Pons Asinorum]

That warning is the truth. Will be back in 30 with an answer when I'm done reading 🙂

 

[bucks2010]

I am an Environmental Engineering student on the pre-med track and with possible math & chemistry minors. With my required engineering and pre-med courses I can obtain a chemistry minor without taking any extra classes. And I figured I could also get a math minor since it only requires two extra classes.

I came in with nearly 30 credits which include Spanish, American Gov't & Politics, Writing, Music Theory and selected topics in Environmental Science.

I pretty much made a layout of the classes I need to take for my next three years but I'm really worried. I honestly don't know if this is what I should be doing, I mean I love what I'm studying but will it be too much work so that I won't be able to concentrate and do well in my pre-med requisites?

I have always dreamed of going to medical school so obtaining this engineering degree is sort of more like 'just for fun' for me.

I work and study so that I actually KNOW what I'm studying and so that I may keep it with me for hopefully my life. This probably inhibits me from doing just what's asked of me and probably hurts my grades because I spend so much time going over things that won't be on the test.

Another issue I have is that engineering is a 4-year program and so every year has atleast three-four classes that I MUST take. Then my being in pre-med takes up ANY space that my 30 transferred credits might have cleared.

Actually, I'm currently looking at taking 17-19 credits every single semester.

Also, an idea I’ve been playing around with. Should I try and transfer to a bigger name school? The reason I wonder is because the only students I hear about that are accepted into med schools from here are those accepted to SUNY Upstate. Which I would definitely be grateful for, but as much as I love Syracuse…I don’t think I would really want to spend a total of 8-10 years here.

As for my transferred credit how do I go about my English requisites for pre-med? Do I have to take English courses, or do medical schools accepted my AP credit. If so, do I have to take the classes I received credit for or am I allowed to take the higher writing courses offered by my school? I wasn’t sure if they meant “take the first 2 English courses” or “take any two English courses.” Don’t medical schools also require you to take humanities courses? Well I mean more like advise, right?

So I guess my list of questions consists of:
1. Should I follow through with engineering?
2. Should I possibly stay here 5 years? (money might be an issue)
3. What should I do since med schools prefer a diverse academic background and not only requirements?
4. Do I try and transfer to a bigger name school? Or is this school sufficient?
5. What do I do for English? Do I need another year or is AP credit enough.
6. Personally, what do you suggest I do with my issue of inherently overworking to understand a subject? (not something I can easily change, trust me I’ve tried)
7. Am I the only one having trouble with this? Haha, I honestly can’t find someone who’s done the same track as me so that they may give me advice so I guess that’s mostly why I’m here.

1. No. You said it yourself, you're just in the major for "fun." Your end goal should be to get a bachelor's degree with a high GPA. Doing 17-19 hrs/semester of engineering + prereqs is not a good recipe for that. Drop the engineering major and find something that syncs up more with the pre-med reqs (something in the sciences). Cut back on the # of classes you have to take so you can do better in them.

Also, it's great you're really interested in your material. I can somewhat relate to you in that regard. But you also have to realize that there are so many hours in a day, and often during the semester you just have to study as efficiently as possible for classes and not get hung up on minutiae that won't be on the test. If you want to learn more, maybe carve out some free time you would've spent doing something else, or write it down and look at it after the semester's over or something. If you're not getting enough free time for yourself, study more efficiently and don't worry about the stuff you won't need to learn for the class.

2. If you want to go back to CA for med school/residency, your best bet (by far) will be to go to a CA school and do well from there. However, the CA med schools as you probably know are very, very competitive - so keep that in mind with whatever decision you decide to make.

3. Sounds like your background is already pretty diverse with the 30 credits you have. Add in some elective classes in your remaining years and you will be "diverse."

4. Name doesn't matter so much. State residency will (i.e. for CA schools).

5. Most schools will ask that you take 2 higher-level classes in addition to the AP credit. I took 2 upper-level writing-intensive classes (not actual English classes) which were required for my gen eds anyways, and unless I'm badly mistaken, those will count.

6. See answer to #1.

7. Nope! It's ok. You're just overworking yourself with the 17-19 credits for 4 years. You need to find a more manageable academic load so that you can find some time for quality EC involvement to round out your application.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

So I guess my list of questions consists of:
1. Should I follow through with engineering?
2. Should I possibly stay here 5 years? (money might be an issue)
3. What should I do since med schools prefer a diverse academic background and not only requirements?
4. Do I try and transfer to a bigger name school? Or is this school sufficient?
5. What do I do for English? Do I need another year or is AP credit enough.
6. Personally, what do you suggest I do with my issue of inherently overworking to understand a subject? (not something I can easily change, trust me I’ve tried)
7. Am I the only one having trouble with this? Haha, I honestly can’t find someone who’s done the same track as me so that they may give me advice so I guess that’s mostly why I’m here.

1. If you really, really want to be a physician, then engineering is a tough row to hoe. You pulled down a 3.28, and the classes and work load don't get easier the more senior you get. Is there an environmental-specific track within the biology department that would interest you and keep you closer to the pre-med requisite courses?

2. You can, but the answer to #1 could set you up for applying with a normal 4-year undergraduate track. That fifth year, and delaying entering medical school a year, has financial consequences beyond just the cost of that fifth year. Avoid if possible.

3. Medical schools prefer students with a proven aptitude to survive the pre-clinical curriculum who have also proven their compassionate desire to help their fellow man. There are many, many ways to demonstrate all those various preferences. Don't believe that there is just one path.

4. No. Your success isn't dependent on you transferring to a "better" school than Syracuse. If you fail, it will be you fault, not Syracuse's.

5. You have to take the courses. Most (but not all) schools don't allow AP credit for prerequisites. English is really the only one that you might sneak through, but it's program-dependent. If you want to ensure that you can matriculate to the widest assortment of programs, you need to consider a way to fit in the English requirement before you matriculate.

6. No offense, but with a 3.28, overworking to understand the material wasn't your problem.

7. No, absolutely not. It's hard to get into college, hard to get A's, and hard to get into medical schools for great reasons. Everyone here has had their adversities, and you can find a lot of great advice around here to help you understand that you aren't alone. The problems of fitting in the prerequisites while making a 4.0 and studying for the MCAT and taking minimal time away from your studies to open an orphanage for disabled kids in Rwanda isn't unique to you. And you don't have the oddest major/path to get there by far. Just brush yourself off after a tough semester and do your best.

 

[farodrig]

@bucks2010: the thing is what will I have if medical school doesn't work out? I absolutely love engineering, the only issue is that I would love a medical profession more. So you suggest I transfer back home? I am actually in an a cappella group at the moment and I have the music director position available to me next year. I currently am kind of like the assistant music director since I've helped arrange the music we have now. I also have some other music-related EC opportunities at the moment.

@Pons Asinorum: there really isn't much in the biology department that interests me. i love building things and engineering allows me to do that. i had so much fun designing bridges, shopping malls, storm-water systems last semester in my intro to engineering course. Sorry could explain #3 a little further please? And I agree a 3.28 wasn't due to overworking. I should explain that last semester I actually slacked. My overworking comment was actually directed to this semester. I currently have four A's and one A- and one B.

Thank you so much for your input!

 

[bucks2010]

I guess I'm not really an advocate of having a backup plan. If anything, it seems that you'd be more likely to not get into medical school if you stayed with engineering, unless you're sure you can improve your GPA. Since you're interested in engineering, I don't think sticking with it would necessarily be a bad thing - you just need to do what it takes to protect your GPA. And engineering degree will not make up for a low GPA to adcoms.

Re: transferring - it really depends on where you want to go to medical school. Since you're from CA, will you still have residency there for med school applications even though you did your UG in NY? If so, just stay put. If not, then consider transferring to a CA UG. But know that even if you do go back to CA to get residency, and wind up with a 3.5/3.6 cumulative, even then it's a toss-up whether or not you get into a CA med school because of how competitive it is. Heck, with a 3.5 I'd actually say your chances are pretty slim.

 

[farodrig]

@bucks2010: yeah i understand where you're coming from. engineering could put a dent in my GPA but I guess I can only find after this semester. it IS kinda of early to tell. my chem and engineering grades last semester were actually pretty good. the reason my gpa was low was because Calculus and my elective which I underestimated. I really appreciate your advice. 🙂

Another question, I'm not planning on taking the science pre-med reqs at a summer school but what should I do for English? Should I risk taking them at a college back home in the summer or should I try and take them here?

 

[docelh]

I honestly don't know if this is what I should be doing, I mean I love what I'm studying but will it be too much work so that I won't be able to concentrate and do well in my pre-med requisites?

Sounds unmanageable. Two pre-reqs + engineering courses sounds not so smart, really. But you know yourself best, or maybe you don't since you haven't started college yet.

So I guess my list of questions consists of:
1. Should I follow through with engineering?

Engineering courses are curved around C's and require a lot of work for very little reward. Notoriously detrimental to a pre-med GPA.

2. Should I possibly stay here 5 years? (money might be an issue)

No comment.

3. What should I do since med schools prefer a diverse academic background and not only requirements?

No comment.

4. Do I try and transfer to a bigger name school? Or is this school sufficient?

Outside of the HYPS-Top 10 group, it becomes all about performance more than school. UCLA vs. Syracuse vs. U Wash vs. JHU vs. Texas is fairly irrelevant.

5. What do I do for English? Do I need another year or is AP credit enough.

I wouldn't rely on APs.

6. Personally, what do you suggest I do with my issue of inherently overworking to understand a subject? (not something I can easily change, trust me I’ve tried)

Learn to study better?

7. Am I the only one having trouble with this? Haha, I honestly can’t find someone who’s done the same track as me so that they may give me advice so I guess that’s mostly why I’m here.

Some of your questions can't be easily answered.

In case of some reason medical school doesn’t work out I could definitely be an Environmental Engineer.

Yeah. Don't discount the value of an engineering degree.

 

[BushidoBrown]

That thar be a whale o' a post

 

[senorsquishie]

@bucks2010:
Another question, I'm not planning on taking the science pre-med reqs at a summer school but what should I do for English? Should I risk taking them at a college back home in the summer or should I try and take them here?

I heard med schools hate it when you take pre-reqs at home, they think you are trying to get an easier course.

Also GPA is king, an art major and a science major have the same shot, and *typically* an art major will have a higher GPA and more fun time. Don't bother transfering, you will get stronger LORs from profs you have known longer.