Academic Career vs Private Practice

[OptimusPrime]

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How much of a pay cut are we talking here? Is there a huge salary difference in the academic world depending on prestige of the institution? Academia is definitely the intellectually more gratifying path but not sure if I can justify 200K pay cut annually for that gratification.

Still undecided about the two paths and rank lists will be up soon. I have interviewed at some good academic center but also at some great clinical fellowships locally. I don’t know if this has been discussed before but any feedback would be appreciated.

OP

 

[gutonc]

It gets discussed constantly. Honestly (and all other things being equal), if you're undecided, an academic fellowship will allow you more flexibility in the future than a community-based fellowship. It's a lot easier to get out of academics than it is to get back in so aim high for fellowship and make the job decision later.

 

[Ashrouf]

It is really simple. If you are interested in money go for the clinical training. If you really care about academia go for the academic. You have to decide early. A lot of academic programs struggle in acquiring people that want to stay in academia. Partly because some applicants scheme and lie about wanting to stay in academia and they have no intention. But they do it to get the spot. For the sake of making this field advance, make up your mind early. If you haven't as a resident, I don't know when you will.

 

[tibor75]

How much of a pay cut are we talking here? Is there a huge salary difference in the academic world depending on prestige of the institution? Academia is definitely the intellectually more gratifying path but not sure if I can justify 200K pay cut annually for that gratification.

Still undecided about the two paths and rank lists will be up soon. I have interviewed at some good academic center but also at some great clinical fellowships locally. I don’t know if this has been discussed before but any feedback would be appreciated.

OP

You can stay in academia and be fairly clinical. It depends upon the program. sure the Harvard and UTSW and Dukes of the world won't pay you squat but there are plenty of academic programs out there where you can be full faculty and spend most of your time seeing patients and get paid fairly well (not as much as private practice though) - Ohio State, Loyola, UPMC, etc.

And keep in mind, if you find the "right" academic job, you won't work as hard as you do in private practice. The $400,000 per year job in PP comes at a price - you'll be working hard for it (although you will probably get more vacation time than you would at a university).

 

[astropilot]

No matter what specialty one chooses, its either time or money, hardly ever do you get both. If you want time off, you'll get less pay. If you want more money, you'll get less time off.

 

[OptimusPrime]

thanks fellas, but most of this I already knew/agree with. I was hoping for more of specific as far as exactly how much of a pay cut are we talking here? Yes, I know, it varies based on location, how hard you want to work and etc etc but generally speaking, keeping the location (region in the nation) the same, how much less does a:

General cardiologist
EP specialist
HF specialist
Interventionalist
Imaging Guru

get paid working in the world of academic medicine vs private world. basically what i'm trying to drive at is I think the way things are going the gap between these two is getting smaller and will cont to do so especially if Obama get this national socialized medicine thing on a roll.

If the pay difference is less than a 100K a year but in exchange you get already established patient base, less call, fellows to boss errr teach and of course the challenge/joy of possibly becoming an expert of sort in your field then the academic decision is one worth giving serious thought.

Although i'm only an R2 I have done extensive research since undergrad, have multiple first author publications in a field which I feel I may be able to make a real difference in the long run but not sure if I could live with my self if I choose the academia route only to find myself making a quarter mil less per year for that decision.

To my friend Ashrouf
"For the sake of making this field advance, make up your mind early. If you haven't as a resident, I don't know when you will. "

{Start sarcastic tone} I'm sorry that I'm not as noble as you whom I assume already decided to dedicate your life to academia for the sake of making this world a better place for the rest of us. Sorry if the idea of paying off my loans, securing a house, saving for kids college fund and still living a comfortable life makes me have to think about things a bit harder and not have it all figured out by my intern year of residency. {End sarcastic tone}

OP

 

[Ashrouf]

thanks fellas, but most of this I already knew/agree with. I was hoping for more of specific as far as exactly how much of a pay cut are we talking here? Yes, I know, it varies based on location, how hard you want to work and etc etc but generally speaking, keeping the location (region in the nation) the same, how much less does a:

General cardiologist
EP specialist
HF specialist
Interventionalist
Imaging Guru

get paid working in the world of academic medicine vs private world. basically what i'm trying to drive at is I think the way things are going the gap between these two is getting smaller and will cont to do so especially if Obama get this national socialized medicine thing on a roll.

If the pay difference is less than a 100K a year but in exchange you get already established patient base, less call, fellows to boss errr teach and of course the challenge/joy of possibly becoming an expert of sort in your field then the academic decision is one worth giving serious thought.

Although i'm only an R2 I have done extensive research since undergrad, have multiple first author publications in a field which I feel I may be able to make a real difference in the long run but not sure if I could live with my self if I choose the academia route only to find myself making a quarter mil less per year for that decision.

To my friend Ashrouf
"For the sake of making this field advance, make up your mind early. If you haven't as a resident, I don't know when you will. "

{Start sarcastic tone} I'm sorry that I'm not as noble as you whom I assume already decided to dedicate your life to academia for the sake of making this world a better place for the rest of us. Sorry if the idea of paying off my loans, securing a house, saving for kids college fund and still living a comfortable life makes me have to think about things a bit harder and not have it all figured out by my intern year of residency. {End sarcastic tone}

OP

LA! That explains it. How much money do you need. What kindda car are you looking for? What kindda house do you want? A lot of people take academic jobs and end up living in really nice houses, send their kids to really good schools. And you are whining about things already. My advice to you, just go into private practice if your main concern is to make more money. And please grow up a little with your childish tone.

 

[copacetic]

 

[doc20]

I was talking to this non interventional cardiologist attending she took about a half pay cut to make jump from private to academic, but she did it for purposes of raising kids and all! academic fellows take call, but in private there is no front line soldiers aka fellows to sacrifice

 

[OptimusPrime]

Ashrouf,
grow up? childish tone?

bro you sound like a bitter little boy upset that you will loose competitive spots at prestigious academic institutions to others knowing that even at the best institutions the percentage of finishing fellows that decide to stay in academia runs at 30%.

It seem like it is killing you that there are up to 2/3rds of each fellowship class from such academic programs going to private practice. Why do i get the sense that you will end up being one of those crazy lonely work driven professors that the resident's tell spook stories about during breaks.

when i posted my questions I just wanted some specific figures from people that may be able to help... not some stupid lecturing from a nobody wanting to be a academic guru someday so he can feel like his better than the private practice counterparts in the community. please keep your 2 cents for the poor fellows that are required to lesson to your ramblings during your 10hr rounds.

OP

 

[Ashrouf]

Ashrouf,
grow up? childish tone?

bro you sound like a bitter little boy upset that you will loose competitive spots at prestigious academic institutions to others knowing that even at the best institutions the percentage of finishing fellows that decide to stay in academia runs at 30%.

It seem like it is killing you that there are up to 2/3rds of each fellowship class from such academic programs going to private practice. Why do i get the sense that you will end up being one of those crazy lonely work driven professors that the resident's tell spook stories about during breaks.

when i posted my questions I just wanted some specific figures from people that may be able to help... not some stupid lecturing from a nobody wanting to be a academic guru someday so he can feel like his better than the private practice counterparts in the community. please keep your 2 cents for the poor fellows that are required to lesson to your ramblings during your 10hr rounds.

OP

Like I said grow up. This is too childish.

 

[OptimusPrime]

oh of course. my bad. you can spew what you like but when i respond I'm just being childish. well why don't you be the bigger man and shut the f#%k up.

cheers,

OP

 

[yaah]

Please attempt to have this discussion without insults and personal attacks, they contribute nothing to the discussion. Will close the thread, etc, if it continues.

 

[OptimusPrime]

please do go ahead and close the thread. it failed to make any significant contribution towards answering the original question. Only person that actually got my intention with an attempt to help was tibor (much appreciated) and copacetic got to enjoy some popcorn while watching the back and forth. but don't expect to have some kid walk on my thread and give me attitude without getting a mouthful back.

but please do delete the thread, if i knew that option was available would have done so myself.

thanks,
OP

 

[dragonfly99]

optimus
I think it's possible to get a good private practice job from an academic fellowship. It's possible to go into academics from a more private-practice or community oriented cards fellowship, but probably harder than doing the converse. That's why you probably still see a lot of IM residents gunning for the "academic" fellowships even if not sure they want to do academics later.

I don't know a lot about the specific salaries...I'd say that some private practice interventionalist could potentially make 200k more than a noninvasive academic cardiologist. However, would think that the gap wouldn't be so great for an academic-affiliated interventional doc vs. a totally private practice interventional doc. It seems to me that the lines between academics and private practice have gotten very blurred in recent years, with many supposedly really academic places absorbing or inviting in private practice clinical cardiologists who become faculty (despite not really doing much research,if any). Then you still have some bench research faculty who really don't do a lot of clinical work. I strongly suspect the affiliated clinicians (who often came from private practice) make more money than a lot of the traditional academic-type guys, or they wouldn't have agreed to bail on their old private practice offices and join these academic health systems.

 

[yaah]

Closing at OP request. Feel free to continue the discussion in a new thread (without personal attacks).