Academic Dismissal

[StrawHatDMD]

Advertisement - Members don't see this ad

Hey all. Posting this for a friend.

She recently was dismissed from a DO school a few days ago. She failed four courses (3 in the second semester). She is fine right now and does not plan to return medical school anytime soon (wants to take some time for herself). But she did want get some advice regarding reapplication, specifically to MD schools.

She was wondering whether being admitted to an MD school will be just as difficult as a DO school. I'm thinking that DO schools will automatically be alerted to a student who was dismissed but I'm not entirely sure.

I guess her question is what are her chances should she reapply in say two years? Whether it be MD or DO?

 

[Gorne]

She was a medical student as doesn't know how difficult it is to get into an MD school vs DO?

I think this may be one of the few scenarios where MD is just not possible. Her best chance is re-admittance to the school that dismissed her.

 

[Aonyx]

People have some amazing friends on this site.

I would say her chances are very slim for either. She's already displayed that she has a lot of trouble handling the curriculum and would likely have some degree of difficulty in the future. She should probably consider another career. She shouldn't be ashamed. Maybe the rigors of medical school just aren't for her. There are a lot of other careers out there that can provide a good living and be fulfilling. It's difficult to accept, for sure, but its better to get over it than to suffer for years with heartbreak and wasted money.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

What kind of school lets a student keep going after failing more than 2 classes in a year? The school should have pulled her out and had her go some type academic and psychological evaluation and had her repeat the year.

Anyway, she's not going to any medical school in the states. She should try for NP.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Failed out of DO school, and not by a small margin. Now wants to apply to MD school? Nope, not a chance. I don't think there's a med school in this country that would take her now - nor does it appear she's suited for medical school in the first place.

 

[dpmd]

Interesting that you ask whether the DO schools would be alerted she failed out, as if she wouldn't be obligated to put in her applications to either MD or DO that she had previously attended a DO school (or perhaps you figured there was a way to hide it). Agree with the above that it is unlikely she will be able to get back into any school unless there is some fantastic reason she can point to for the failures that she can guarantee won't happen again (and even then it will be tough)

 

[DrfluffyMD]

Did she not apply to MD the first time around? If so, why?

 

[Brorthopedic]

"asking for a friend"

 

[Donald Juan]

She will have to disclose openly to either MD or DO schools what happened. There is no hiding it.

She would have to have some things that demonstrate why she thinks a second round would be different; not just saying she'll try harder. It is difficult to get into med school and this dismissal will only make it significantly harder.

 

[sliceofbread136]

Not gonna happen

 

[AcademicNeurosurgery]

How old is she? Sometimes, people start medical school and just aren't prepared from either a maturity or personal wellness standpoint.

Might be able to make a case that she started medical school at a bad time and is now ready to go. No idea how that would go over with adcoms but you would hope there is at least some chance of redemption. It can be difficult to fully grasp the implications of our field in your early 20s.

 

[Mad Jack]

Hey all. Posting this for a friend.

She recently was dismissed from a DO school a few days ago. She failed four courses (3 in the second semester). She is fine right now and does not plan to return medical school anytime soon (wants to take some time for herself). But she did want get some advice regarding reapplication, specifically to MD schools.

She was wondering whether being admitted to an MD school will be just as difficult as a DO school. I'm thinking that DO schools will automatically be alerted to a student who was dismissed but I'm not entirely sure.

I guess her question is what are her chances should she reapply in say two years? Whether it be MD or DO?

Once you're booted out of a medical school, any medical school, you're basically done for life stateside. I've heard of people that failed out going to the Carib afterward, but I've never heard of a person falling out of a US MD/DO school that could even get an interview in a US school afterward.

 

[AcademicNeurosurgery]

Once you're booted out of a medical school, any medical school, you're basically done for life stateside. I've heard of people that failed out going to the Carib afterward, but I've never heard of a person falling out of a US MD/DO school that could even get an interview in a US school afterward.

Out of curiosity, how would schools get this information?

 

[Goro]

Failed out of DO school, and not by a small margin. Now wants to apply to MD school? Nope, not a chance. I don't think there's a med school in this country that would take her now - nor does it appear she's suited for medical school in the first place.

Agree 100% with this. She had her chance, and now it's time to move on. And NOT to the Carib diploma mills either.

 

[Goro]

Out of curiosity, how would schools get this information?

A) you're asked on apps if you've ever matriculated into a medical school
B) there is a national clearing house for transcripts.

 

[AcademicNeurosurgery]

Agree 100% with this. She had her chance, and now it's time to move on. And NOT to the Carib diploma mills either.

A) you're asked on apps if you've ever matriculated into a medical school
B) there is a national clearing house for transcripts.

I assume that question includes DO and MD schools (since one uses AACOMAS and the other uses AMCAS)?

Quite a shame that there are rarely any second chances once you enter medical school, especially if the student is a traditional young college grad. I think more people need to understand that once you start medical school, you basically get one shot at everything (Step 1, matching, etc). Some people just aren't ready at age 21/22 to begin medical school even though they get accepted. It's a lot of responsibility (and ownership of learning material relevant to life/death situations) at an early age. In this case, however, it would have helped to not wait for 4 failed courses to take a step back and see if a LOA or other action is needed.

 

[Mad Jack]

Out of curiosity, how would schools get this information?

There is a report provided by the NSLC, an organization that processes student financial aid. It shows them every school you have ever applied for aid at. They will also be able to see if you were accepted at an MD school if they're an MD school or DO schools if you went DO, if I remember correctly, as the AACOMAS and AMCAS provide such information to schools after a certain point in the year (it's been a while since I discussed this though, so I'd verify that with an adcom, as that's where I'd originally heard about it).

 

[bannie22]

I think failing 4 courses at a DO school is not suggestive that friend would succeed at MD.

Its challenging to fail and to do it 4 times is just quite impressive in itself!

This perhaps a good time to reconsider career options.

 

[IslandStyle808]

I assume that question includes DO and MD schools (since one uses AACOMAS and the other uses AMCAS)?

Quite a shame that there are rarely any second chances once you enter medical school, especially if the student is a traditional young college grad. I think more people need to understand that once you start medical school, you basically get one shot at everything (Step 1, matching, etc). Some people just aren't ready at age 21/22 to begin medical school even though they get accepted. It's a lot of responsibility (and ownership of learning material relevant to life/death situations) at an early age. In this case, however, it would have helped to not wait for 4 failed courses to take a step back and see if a LOA or other action is needed.

Its more person dependent than age dependent. Some people come in knowing at 18 y/o in countries like India. For others, its way too early. However, it is up to the person to make that call. I do agree that society in general should be more willing to give people second chances.

 

[Yung Kelso]

1. No MD program worth a damn will take you once you flunk out of another Medical school, whether that is a DO or MD program.
2. like some other's have suggested, your friends best bet is to try and get a second chance at the program she got dismissed from.

Side note - Your friend flunked out after the 1st year and likely flushed 60K+ in tuition and expenses down the drain. You should be asking them if they really want to risk making that mistake twice. Medical school only gets harder after 1st year. The thought of flunking out of school and being saddled with 100's of thousands in loans, to me is terrifying.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I assume that question includes DO and MD schools (since one uses AACOMAS and the other uses AMCAS)?

Quite a shame that there are rarely any second chances once you enter medical school, especially if the student is a traditional young college grad. I think more people need to understand that once you start medical school, you basically get one shot at everything (Step 1, matching, etc). Some people just aren't ready at age 21/22 to begin medical school even though they get accepted. It's a lot of responsibility (and ownership of learning material relevant to life/death situations) at an early age. In this case, however, it would have helped to not wait for 4 failed courses to take a step back and see if a LOA or other action is needed.

But see, that's the thing. Med schools usually try quite hard to remediate students. You can screw up, academically, quite a lot before they give you the boot. The OP failed 4 courses. This isn't "Passed but GPA wasn't high enough" or "Failed one course and had to do it over" this was "Failed 4 courses". When I was in school, first year only had 4 courses per semester. Failing 3 second semester would mean only passing 1 class.

 

[Light at end of tunnel]

If your friend had correctable non academic issues that factored into the failure equation, like depression or family issues, then possibly?

Otherwise, although there is always a chance of anything happening, I would not bet on it. Better to cut losses and change course.

 

[gyngyn]

Hey all. Posting this for a friend.

She recently was dismissed from a DO school a few days ago. She failed four courses (3 in the second semester). She is fine right now and does not plan to return medical school anytime soon (wants to take some time for herself). But she did want get some advice regarding reapplication, specifically to MD schools.

She was wondering whether being admitted to an MD school will be just as difficult as a DO school. I'm thinking that DO schools will automatically be alerted to a student who was dismissed but I'm not entirely sure.

I guess her question is what are her chances should she reapply in say two years? Whether it be MD or DO?

This sounds more like a narrative she has developed to help her through the feelings of loss and inadequacy.
Let her hold on to the fiction as long as she must before she lets it go herself.
If she begins to actually do things that indicate a real intention to re-apply, you can begin to point out how unlikely that is.

 

[W19]

Hey all. Posting this for a friend.

She recently was dismissed from a DO school a few days ago. She failed four courses (3 in the second semester). She is fine right now and does not plan to return medical school anytime soon (wants to take some time for herself). But she did want get some advice regarding reapplication, specifically to MD schools.

She was wondering whether being admitted to an MD school will be just as difficult as a DO school. I'm thinking that DO schools will automatically be alerted to a student who was dismissed but I'm not entirely sure.

I guess her question is what are her chances should she reapply in say two years? Whether it be MD or DO?

Caribbean MD for sure, not US MD.

or DNP and she will be called a doctor...

 

[Light at end of tunnel]

Caribbean MD for sure, not US MD.

or DNP and she will be called a doctor...

Do you think they would take her under these circumstances?

Christ, I hope they have higher standards than that for the sake of everyone who could come under their doctors' care.

Some people simply are not cut out for medicine, and that is OK and not always a reflection of being subpar academically or intelligence wise.

Personally, I could never be a CPA or a chemist.

 

[W19]

Do you think they would take her under these circumstances?

Christ, I hope they have higher standards than that for the sake of everyone who could come under their doctors' care.

Some people simply are not cut out for medicine.

I know n=1 who was dismissed from NSU-COM and went to Ross. He is an IM doc now...

OP can do a 1-year accelerated BSN and then do an online DNP... These programs are not difficult to get into. The standards are VERY low...

 

[Light at end of tunnel]

I know n=1 who was dismissed from NSU-COM and went to Ross. He is an IM doc now...

OP can do a 1-year accelerated BSN and then do an online DNP... These programs are not difficult to get into. The standards are VERY low...

I do not think the problem is getting in, as much as it is finishing and getting out.

US or carib, OP has to learn the same material and pass same boards.

 

[W19]

I do not think the problem is getting in, as much as it is finishing and getting out.

US or carib, OP has to learn the same material and pass same boards.

Yeah, but if it was outside factors that made OP failed the first time, he/she might redeem him/herself the second time. Who knows! However, I would advise OP to do NP instead because the match is getting too competitive.

 

[raiderette]

Outside factors are a reason for a leave of absence. Failing shows poor judgement.

 

[Goro]

Outside factors are a reason for a leave of absence. Failing shows poor judgement.

Or an inability to handle med school, period. Some people are like that.

 

[Stagg737]

I assume that question includes DO and MD schools (since one uses AACOMAS and the other uses AMCAS)?

Quite a shame that there are rarely any second chances once you enter medical school, especially if the student is a traditional young college grad. I think more people need to understand that once you start medical school, you basically get one shot at everything (Step 1, matching, etc). Some people just aren't ready at age 21/22 to begin medical school even though they get accepted. It's a lot of responsibility (and ownership of learning material relevant to life/death situations) at an early age. In this case, however, it would have helped to not wait for 4 failed courses to take a step back and see if a LOA or other action is needed.

For the major events of med school like boards and matching that's true, but most med schools I've heard will do a lot to try and help their students succeed, even if they do fail a few courses. It reflects poorly on the school when too many students are failing out, so even students who fail more than 1 class in a year are more likely to be given a loa or will just repeat the year than being kicked out right away.

1. No Medical School worth a damn will take you once you flunk out of another Medical school, whether that is a DO or MD program.
2. like some other's have suggested, your friends best bet is to try and get a second chance at the program she got dismissed from.

Side note - Your friend flunked out after the 1st year and likely flushed 60K+ in tuition and expenses down the drain. You should be asking them if they really want to risk making that mistake twice. Medical school only gets harder after 1st year. The thought of flunking out of school and being saddled with 100's of thousands in loans, to me is terrifying.

Ftfy.

 

[Light at end of tunnel]

I think OP should be commended for the effort they have put into medical school.

I bet with that dedication in the right field, OP is sure to succeed.

 

[azmang108]

It can be difficult to fully grasp the implications of our field in your early 20s.

What age is best in order to grasp such lofty implications? Perhaps we should push back taking responsibility for ourselves further! Stretch the matriculation age such that you can simultaneously apply for both medical school and the AARP.

 

[Light at end of tunnel]

What age is best in order to grasp such lofty implications? Perhaps we should push back taking responsibility for ourselves further! Stretch the matriculation age such that you can simultaneously apply for both medical school and the AARP.

Right?

The goal is to graduate medical school before suffering a pelvic insufficiency fracture.

 

[Stagg737]

What age is best in order to grasp such lofty implications? Perhaps we should push back taking responsibility for ourselves further! Stretch the matriculation age such that you can simultaneously apply for both medical school and the AARP.

I get what you're saying, but I also think the original point is very valid and true too often. Having experience in the real world under your belt before going to med school gives a lot of people a lot more appreciation for the profession and what the alternatives could be. The vast majority of the time the students/residents I've met that have personality issues are ones that don't know what it's like to work a real job or have to rely on someone other than mommy and daddy or Uncle Sam to pay for their living. Not saying we should be pushing med school back farther or that kids straight out of college can't do well or be mature, but there's something to be said for those who actually experienced other aspects of life and still chose to enter medicine.