Academic Job Negotiation

[Hokie_Slug519]

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Hallo!

Starting discussions with my home program for a faculty position (malignant heme/BMT). I know salary is super static at most academic places, but what are some solid negotiables that are fair game in the academic world?

My initial thoughts are:
1) vacation time
2) signing bonus (how do you even weigh what's 'good' or not?)
3) startup funds (what's a good starting $ to actually be useful)
4) scribe or allowing me to use an AI scribe
5) later start time
6) an office with a window (lol -only half kidding)

Looking forward to everyone's wisdom!

 

[whoknows2012]

Hallo!

Starting discussions with my home program for a faculty position (malignant heme/BMT). I know salary is super static at most academic places, but what are some solid negotiables that are fair game in the academic world?

My initial thoughts are:
1) vacation time
2) signing bonus (how do you even weigh what's 'good' or not?)
3) startup funds (what's a good starting $ to actually be useful)
4) scribe or allowing me to use an AI scribe
5) later start time
6) an office with a window (lol -only half kidding)

Looking forward to everyone's wisdom!

You may as well shoot your shot. Very few things are negotiable but definitely worth trying. #1 might be doa as vacation time is pretty standard.
#2 is reasonable and my guess would be 5-10k but have at it
# 4 yes, seems reasonable
# 5 also might be doa but depends (ie are you talking about starting to see patients at 9:30?? Or…)
# 6 definitely reasonable

Other things people try to negotiate are non competes (wasn’t that declared illegal?, probably outdated now since likely not enforceable)
Inclusion in incentive/bonus program if available (or at least inquiring about it)
Cme/conference funds
“Moving” funds (could get creative here)
Weeks on service

 

[ONC2023]

The recent NIH cuts have basically frozen everything at my institution. Even before that, my institution was known for poor pay and inflexibility, but it’s worse now.

I’m not trying to start an academics vs community debate, but want to ask: if they say no to everything and give a standard academic take or leave it offer, would you accept? The community job market is pretty good right now, and there are definite malignant heme specialized jobs (not sure about BMT specific). Just a thought to get some backup offers in case they’re unreasonably inflexible.

 

[gutonc]

Hallo!

Starting discussions with my home program for a faculty position (malignant heme/BMT). I know salary is super static at most academic places, but what are some solid negotiables that are fair game in the academic world?

My initial thoughts are:
1) vacation time

Nope

2) signing bonus (how do you even weigh what's 'good' or not?)

My former institution had a blanket "no more than 10% of base salary" policy. They were always happy to pay less than that (and typically offered less than 5% as a start), but never more. No idea if your place has something similar but this is an area where you might have some flexibility.

3) startup funds (what's a good starting $ to actually be useful)

For what? Basic science lab? Translational lab? IIT development? They will all vary wildly. Do/will you have your own grant support? What do your mentors suggest here? That's probably a better source.

4) scribe or allowing me to use an AI scribe

They may already be planning to implement an AI scribe program. If you want/like a scribe, ask now.

5) later start time

For clinic? Are you willing to work through the noon hour? Keep your clinic open later (last patient at 6 or 7)? They're going to want to get as much out of you clinically as possible so as long as the support exists in the clinic to accommodate your desired hours (front desk, nursing, MAs, etc) this shouldn't be too hard.

6) an office with a window (lol -only half kidding)

My current office has a panoramic river and mountain view. They will have to wheel me out of here on a gurney, I am never giving this office up.

Looking forward to everyone's wisdom!

Other things to think about:
- Protected research time (depending on what your research is)
- Inpatient coverage as mentioned above, also what your clinic will look like during your on-service time.
- Teaching expectations and protected time
- Admin expectations and protected time. This is one that can be very nebulous and difficult to quantify. I wouldn't personally accept <0.1FTE for admin time (that's half a day a week). You're likely to wind up with a day or more full of meetings/committees/academic BS very quickly, be sure you're getting credit for it.

 

[lifeofpi1]

Hallo!

Starting discussions with my home program for a faculty position (malignant heme/BMT). I know salary is super static at most academic places, but what are some solid negotiables that are fair game in the academic world?

My initial thoughts are:
1) vacation time
2) signing bonus (how do you even weigh what's 'good' or not?)
3) startup funds (what's a good starting $ to actually be useful)
4) scribe or allowing me to use an AI scribe
5) later start time
6) an office with a window (lol -only half kidding)

Looking forward to everyone's wisdom!

This is based on my experience of having been on the academic job trail this past year as a graduating fellow including a range of name-brand institutions to mid-tier research institutions.

1) vacation time - No. This is pretty much standard across the board for new hires. Conference attendance time is also standard and non-negotiable.
2) signing bonus (how do you even weigh what's 'good' or not?) - There is some wiggle room but not much. 25K was the most common I've encountered. Name-brand places will offer less or more often, none. Programs in less desirable areas will offer more (ex. sometimes >50K).
3) startup funds (what's a good starting $ to actually be useful) - This will be variable depending on lab-based physician scientist vs. clinical investigator, etc. I have seen 50K/yr x X years for non-lab based faculty positions.
4) scribe or allowing me to use an AI scribe - Yes you could ask for one.
5) later start time - As long as the support staff is available for the hours, this is doable.
6) an office with a window (lol -only half kidding) - Doable

As others above have mentioned, moving expenses is standard and should be given, even at the name brand institutions. CME is standard for everyone and usually non-negotiable, based on my experience. Protected time is negotiable but difficult unless you are bringing in grants. Some places allow a little bit of wiggle room for base salary for "difficult to recruit" subspecialties (ex. sarcoma, neuro-onc, etc.). Others may provide additional incentive/bonus for "travel pay" if you are covering a satellite location.

 

[Hokie_Slug519]

Thanks everyone - this is already pretty helpful.

To clarify, what I mean is later start date in the year. I'm hoping to take a few months off before starting work (From July to ~October for family/boards reasons). I'm pretty ambivalent re time of day.

My former institution had a blanket "no more than 10% of base salary" policy. They were always happy to pay less than that (and typically offered less than 5% as a start), but never more. No idea if your place has something similar but this is an area where you might have some flexibility.

Anyone else have this experience? It all seems so arbitrary so I have no idea where to start. 10% of base seems like at least a little objective.

For what? Basic science lab? Translational lab? IIT development? They will all vary wildly. Do/will you have your own grant support? What do your mentors suggest here? That's probably a better source.

Its pretty all over the map for faculty. Most dont have a lab and use startup funds stats support on smaller projects, submission fees for pubs, supplement to CME etc. Should I stick for another arbitrary % as reference for this?

Other things to think about:
- Protected research time (depending on what your research is)
- Inpatient coverage as mentioned above, also what your clinic will look like during your on-service time.
- Teaching expectations and protected time
- Admin expectations and protected time. This is one that can be very nebulous and difficult to quantify. I wouldn't personally accept <0.1FTE for admin time (that's half a day a week). You're likely to wind up with a day or more full of meetings/committees/academic BS very quickly, be sure you're getting credit for it.

I will have 40% research built into the boiler plate so I think that should be reasonable.
The expectation will have clinic responsibilities on top of IP attending on weeks where I overlap (painful, but only 6-9 weeks IP a year)

Is it sufficient to just ask 'what are my teaching expectations and protected time for this?'
Good call on admin time... I think I just figured if 60% of my time is clinical FTE (roughly 2 full days of clinic/week, all the time in between can be admin/research). is it acceptable to be very very explicit with this? ("I want my admin time on Fridays between x-y time" etc)

Other things people try to negotiate are non competes (wasn’t that declared illegal?, probably outdated now since likely not enforceable)
Inclusion in incentive/bonus program if available (or at least inquiring about it)
Cme/conference funds
“Moving” funds (could get creative here)
Weeks on service

I'm already local so thankfully not any need for moving funds, but I suppose the worst they say is no?
What's a reasonable amount for attending CME/conference funds? I think I'm pretty frugal at heart so spending more than like 1K-2K a year on CME already sounds like a lot lol.
Should be safe from non-compete perspective.
Weeks on service are built into clinical FTE so not much wiggle room.

I’m not trying to start an academics vs community debate, but want to ask: if they say no to everything and give a standard academic take or leave it offer, would you accept? The community job market is pretty good right now, and there are definite malignant heme specialized jobs (not sure about BMT specific). Just a thought to get some backup offers in case they’re unreasonably inflexible.

*Sigh* honestly such a great question. I think right now the clincher for me is that from my graduation from fellowship I will only have < 1 year's worth of payments on IBR to qualify for full PSLF payout so it just feels like a waste to bail when I'm this close. Additionally, my original passion/dream was academics and I think I'd like to explore the space for at least 1-2 years before making the switch (BMT is also just tough to find in my region).

Any other advice is appreciated!

 

[gutonc]

Thanks everyone - this is already pretty helpful.

To clarify, what I mean is later start date in the year. I'm hoping to take a few months off before starting work (From July to ~October for family/boards reasons). I'm pretty ambivalent re time of day.

Oh yeah, start date should be up to you. If you say October 1 and they say August 15 (and you're cool with that), make them pay you more of a sign-on bonus to make up for it.

 

[IM_to_ortho_hopeful]

Don't do it bro. You could make 1.4M and have a lambo going full time locums.

 

[randomhemoncpd]

Nope

My former institution had a blanket "no more than 10% of base salary" policy. They were always happy to pay less than that (and typically offered less than 5% as a start), but never more. No idea if your place has something similar but this is an area where you might have some flexibility.

For what? Basic science lab? Translational lab? IIT development? They will all vary wildly. Do/will you have your own grant support? What do your mentors suggest here? That's probably a better source.

They may already be planning to implement an AI scribe program. If you want/like a scribe, ask now.

For clinic? Are you willing to work through the noon hour? Keep your clinic open later (last patient at 6 or 7)? They're going to want to get as much out of you clinically as possible so as long as the support exists in the clinic to accommodate your desired hours (front desk, nursing, MAs, etc) this shouldn't be too hard.

My current office has a panoramic river and mountain view. They will have to wheel me out of here on a gurney, I am never giving this office up.

Other things to think about:
- Protected research time (depending on what your research is)
- Inpatient coverage as mentioned above, also what your clinic will look like during your on-service time.
- Teaching expectations and protected time
- Admin expectations and protected time. This is one that can be very nebulous and difficult to quantify. I wouldn't personally accept <0.1FTE for admin time (that's half a day a week). You're likely to wind up with a day or more full of meetings/committees/academic BS very quickly, be sure you're getting credit for it.

Thanks everyone - this is already pretty helpful.

To clarify, what I mean is later start date in the year. I'm hoping to take a few months off before starting work (From July to ~October for family/boards reasons). I'm pretty ambivalent re time of day.


Anyone else have this experience? It all seems so arbitrary so I have no idea where to start. 10% of base seems like at least a little objective.


Its pretty all over the map for faculty. Most dont have a lab and use startup funds stats support on smaller projects, submission fees for pubs, supplement to CME etc. Should I stick for another arbitrary % as reference for this?


I will have 40% research built into the boiler plate so I think that should be reasonable.
The expectation will have clinic responsibilities on top of IP attending on weeks where I overlap (painful, but only 6-9 weeks IP a year)

Is it sufficient to just ask 'what are my teaching expectations and protected time for this?'
Good call on admin time... I think I just figured if 60% of my time is clinical FTE (roughly 2 full days of clinic/week, all the time in between can be admin/research). is it acceptable to be very very explicit with this? ("I want my admin time on Fridays between x-y time" etc)


I'm already local so thankfully not any need for moving funds, but I suppose the worst they say is no?
What's a reasonable amount for attending CME/conference funds? I think I'm pretty frugal at heart so spending more than like 1K-2K a year on CME already sounds like a lot lol.
Should be safe from non-compete perspective.
Weeks on service are built into clinical FTE so not much wiggle room.


*Sigh* honestly such a great question. I think right now the clincher for me is that from my graduation from fellowship I will only have < 1 year's worth of payments on IBR to qualify for full PSLF payout so it just feels like a waste to bail when I'm this close. Additionally, my original passion/dream was academics and I think I'd like to explore the space for at least 1-2 years before making the switch (BMT is also just tough to find in my region).

Any other advice is appreciated!

60% cFTE means 2 days of clinic and 6-8 weeks IP for BMT for my institution so that sounds about right. Typically the other time is yours to spend as you see fit although of course there are the endless meetings as is par for the course for academic jobs. I would be surprised if they'll give you extra FTE for admin / education on top of 40% research (unless the 40% is supported by a grant); expect no protected time for education unless you are coming in as an APD -- even core faculty had their protected time nerfed in the recent 2024 ACGME requirements.