Academic Peds Programs: Chicago, NY, Boston, Philadelphia

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Pedialyte

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Hi. I'm in the midst of applying for pediatric residency programs, and my advisor says I need to strictly apply to academic programs. I know I will subspecialize in the future, and I loved Peds EM and my PICU rotations. My application is a mix of stats: less than stellar step 1 score, a few research projects, 1 publication, and 3 clinical honors, (plus some good extracurric's). I'm not really sure how I will fare in receiving interview offers. As a pretty social person, I don't know that I'd want to apply to any very small programs.

Due to the sig. o. situation, we are primarily looking at Chicago, NY, Boston, and Philadelphia. I'm applying from a good midwest med school, but don't know the following:
1) Am I a shot in the dark for most of the major university programs in those cities (I'm not talking about CHOPs and Boston Children's)?
2) Anyone have a feeling on 'the sleepers' and if they set you back for fellowship consideration? Like Rush in Chicago?
3) Anyone have thoughts on the 5 Chicago academic programs specifically, or in the other cities listed? (NYU, Presbyterian, Tufts-New England, etc.)

Sorry for the rambling post. If you have thoughts re: any of those questions, I'd really appreciate it. Thanks! :)

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1) Am I a shot in the dark for most of the major university programs in those cities (I'm not talking about CHOPs and Boston Children's)?
I think for Boston Children's, it will be tough to get an interview. They are extremely selective for their interviews and you need great scores to get an interview there or have something else stellar on your application (eg, great research, AOA, etc.), especially if you come from an average medical school. You seem like a pretty strong applicant, so it is worth a shot but please dont let it disappoint you if you dont get an interview. There are plenty of other programs that are easier to get into and will prepare you just as well. Personally, I think these high-powered residency programs are much better to do fellowship than residency anyways. CHOP on the otherhand seems to interview a much larger number of people and also have a less selective screening process. I don't think it would be a bad idea to apply to either of those. It is definately worth the $15 or however much it is to apply to a program these days.

2) Anyone have a feeling on 'the sleepers' and if they set you back for fellowship consideration? Like Rush in Chicago? Rush last year put 8/11 into fellowship programs, some going to great programs such as peds cards at Columbia in NY. So it didnt hurt the people that matched, but I have no idea how the rest of them matched. I know a lot of them did go into specialties that as a whole are not very competitive (eg, NICU, GI, etc.) However, if you can go to a stronger academic program, I would highly recommend it. The biggest factors affecting your fellowship chances are who you know and which program you came from. If you want to do cards at a great program, it is easier if you are at a well-known program who have prominent physicians with ties to those great programs. Going to a small lesser known program doesnt make it impossible to match into good fellowships, but it makes it more difficult.

3) Anyone have thoughts on the 5 Chicago academic programs specifically, or in the other cities listed? (NYU, Presbyterian, Tufts-New England, etc.)? I will talk about the Chicago programs in another thread.


Your comment on you being a "social person" making you want a bigger program doesnt make a lot of sense to me. For example, Boston is one one of the biggest programs in the country but I didnt feel like many of the residents were very "social" people. On the other hand, smaller programs like University of Chicago have very social residents. Size of the program doesnt really correlate with how social are their residents. When you apply and interview, see if you get along well with the people you meet. This will be the best guage of how happy you will be there. Good luck!
 
Sorry about repeating some things! I'm a bit new to the site. I looked back at those old posts and that was helpful. Thanks so much for your reply! I really appreciate you taking the time to write all that.

Couple of follow up questions:
1) Any thoughts on the Tufts program? I'm not sure how competitive I am for them or not, but I'm not finding old threads discussing what that program's like. Sounds like the New York Presbyterian programs (Columbia and Cornell) are pretty partial to local applicants.
2) I'm also wondering about UCLA-affiliated programs. Are they terribly cut-throat in terms of the application process?

Here's to hoping for interviews...
Pedialyte
 
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I'm actually already biased in UChicago's favor; I was a research assistant in the Dept. of Pediatrics for awhile.
 
can you say a bit more about uchicago and what you like about it? i was going to apply to children's memorial, but don't know much about other chicago programs...
 
Blanche,

Were you asking me? If I were you, I'd do a keyword search for the program. Scholes has written a lot (thorough stuff) on the topic. Probably one of the senior members would have better things to say to you since I'm just a 4th year, and I haven't begun the application thing yet either. For me, Northwestern-CMH is pretty likely out of reach (not that UChicago isn't a reach because I think it is) for me. Obviously people love Northwestern since they advertise that half of all people applying to peds request info from them, and they have a pretty big national name as well-and you have to love Lincoln Park.
I have friends who did med school at NU and some who did med school at Pritzker. Not that that necessarily defines a residency experience, though! Like others have written, they're pretty different and so are their neighborhoods. You'd probably be better served reading over the old threads and deciding if you really want to be in that city or not. (Location is a big factor for me.)

Good luck!
'Lyte
 
NW and U of C are both great programs, but are very different and cater to different people. In terms of their children's hospitals, NW is a larger, more academic program in terms of the culture within the hospital. I felt fellows have a very strong role within the hospital at NW, more than that at U of C. This can be good or bad depending on how you look it. On one hand, the fellows are usually pretty bright and offer a more intimate learning environment since they have more time than the attendings to sit and teach. Also, the presence of a fellowship program usually indicates an active division that has high patient volume and thus more exposure for residents to that subspecialty. On the other hand, residents have less autonomy with the presence of fellows. This is true everywhere, despite how many programs insist they are "not fellow run" and that their "fellows do not manage the patients." This is total BS from any program that tells you this. If the fellows are not managing patients, then how are they learning? They are in training. They are not attendings.

Both hospitals have good exposure to medical subspecialties, but NW sees a higher volume based on the larger size of the hospital. The surgical subspecialty presence at NW is huge, much more than U of C, with the exception of neurosurgery. This provides a unique experience to NW residents in the management of surgical patients. You get adequate exposure to surgical patients at U of C as well, but not at the volume of NW. However, general peds exposure at NW is not as strong. The majority of the NW residents that go into "general pediatrics" seek jobs as hospitalists in a large medical center, rather than primary care community pediatrics. U of C has a stronger focus on community based pediatrics, while maintaining a good balance between primary care and subspecialty exposure. Also, something that U of C has that is extremely unique is their rotation at La Rabida, which is a hospital for children with chronic diseases on Chicago's south shore. As a second year, you pretty much run the hospital, which is an extremely challenging experience. You have a role similar to the NW residents who rotate at Evanston, but the patients at La Rabida are much more challenging, such as kids with chronic lung disease and trachs, sicklers, diabetics, CP, rheum kids, etc.

Despite the size and culture of NW, it is not as strong in terms of their research power in comparison to several other programs of similar size and reputation. I think currently they are actually pretty similar in the amount of research they do. However, this may change as NW s looking to move the children's hospital to the main medical campus to have better access to the research facilities there. But U of C is also making strides with recruitment of basic and clinical scientists and the expansion of current research facilities that are dedicated strictly to children. Both residencies have a research requirement, although it seems more organized at U of C as they have a curriculum dedicated to your research project and keep you on task having you do a little bit over the entire 3 years. At NW it seems that the research project is more of a third year project.

The residency programs are organized differently according to their call schedules and benefits. NW kills you the first year and rewards you later. I think they have something like 11 months Q4, then 7 months Q4, then 5 months Q4 over the 3 years. U of C is pretty much equal over the 3 years, I think around 6 months each year. NW doesn't provide food to their residents on a daily basis but gives a food allowance for call days, while U of C provides breakfast and lunch daily and money for dinner on call days. Parking is half the price at U of C but less accessible by public transportation. Because of the neighborhoods, more NW residents are able to live within walking to the distance to the hospital, but you will pay for it based on the cost of living of the neighborhood. However, a nice thing about the U of C location is that it is easily accessible by car from anywhere in the city, including the suburbs for those with families. It is almost impossible to live in the suburbs and commute to NW. This probably is not a factor for the vast majority of applicants.

All in all both are very good programs with a unique culture that you will have to assess when interviewing. If you are really interested in both programs and are confident that they will both be ranked among your top programs as I was, I would recommend rotating at both because programs can always put on a show for one day during the interview. Impossible to do that for an entire month. Reputation is still better at NW. In fact, many of the residents at U of C hadnt heard anything about U of C Children's Hospital when they applied. Obviously they knew of the reputation of the medical school. Many applied only because they thought Chicago was a cool city and they were applying to NW anyways and it would be nice to see other programs in the city. They were impressed during the interview day and chose U of C over NW. If I could summarize the key difference in one sentence it would be...NW will prepare you phenomenally for practice in a tertiary care environment and academic medicine, while U of C will prepare you well for virtually any path of medicine you choose.
 
pedialyte and scholoes--
thanks for your thoughtful replies, i definitely need to utilize the search function more but i appreciate all the info you wrote!!
it sounds like nw and uc both provide unique experiences in their own right...coming from a place with a big academic program, that's pretty much all i know at this point (lots of fellows, subspecialty care, etc etc) i think i'll probobly apply to uc in addition to nw. i'm not particular to any geographic area, but being in a city that's fun is definitely a priority. i'm also on the lookout for programs with good comraderie/resident morale, because it's going to be three years of my life!

thanks again-
blanche
 
Parking is half the price at U of C but less accessible by public transportation. Because of the neighborhoods, more NW residents are able to live within walking to the distance to the hospital, but you will pay for it based on the cost of living of the neighborhood. However, a nice thing about the U of C location is that it is easily accessible by car from anywhere in the city, including the suburbs for those with families. It is almost impossible to live in the suburbs and commute to NW. This probably is not a factor for the vast majority of applicants.
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Do any residents live in Hyde Park itself? I know it doesn't really get quite the attention of the north side neighborhoods, but to me at least it's always seemed like kind of a cool place to be.
 
Several residents and a high number of faculty live in Hyde Park. It really is a beautiful neighborhood and the south shore is a hidden gem in the city. Just as pretty, if not prettier than the lake front up north, but much less crowded, so it is much nicer to bike and jog. Hyde Park is very affordable for a big city and a resident could afford to buy a pretty nice condo. The main problem is that nightlife is limited in the area compared to the northside. But there are nice restaurants and the university facilities are very accessible, such as the university athletic facilities, which are gorgeous and something ridiculous like $10 bucks a month or something for residents.
 
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