Academics

[bor0000]

I first posted this in predental, as thats what i am. but i'll try now to substitute dent for med and ask the same question because i did not receive any response there:

say you go to a medschool and just get your md. Then you go through your regular residensy; how hard is it then to become a professor at some school, teaching and doing research in some basic sciences(i.e. biology or psychology), while practicing medicine part-time?

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[DrBuro]

I think you should move this again to the doctors forum. Hardly anyone here *knows* what medicine entails past getting into a school.

 

[bor0000]

well this is not so important to me that i would flood the doctor's forum, it's just a curiousity, in case anybody does know anything. my main interests lie in getting into dental school though. btw your avatar is hot.

 

[LizzyM]

I can speak to medicine, not sure about dental but it might be similar.

Usually, a resident or fellow (fellowships follow residence and are where subspecialty training is obtained) will begin working on research projects in addition to their clinical training and responsibility for teaching underlings (thus the 3 legged stool analogy, research/teaching/clinical care). A fellow who succeeds at research and enjoys it will go on to seek a faculty appointment and continue with research in addition to teaching and clinical care. Research can be basic science or clinical or translational research.

It is unusual for someone with a DDS or MD to do psychology or biology research, that is usually done by faculty with PhD degrees in those disciplines. I would expect a DDS to do research on new materials for restorations, microbiology related to diagnosis, treatment and prevention of oral disease, that sort of thing. Also research related to the prevalence of oral diseases and effective strategies for getting people to adopt better (dental) health habits.

 

[bor0000]

I actually worked in some lab after my freshman year, where the lab supervisor was an md(no ph.d.) who did basic physiology research and had grad students under him. he worked part-time at the university-affiliated hospital(neurology). I bet he took a substantial pay-cut as opposed to the private practice, but i never asked him any questions outside of his research. But i also bet he was much more independent in the choice of research that he was doing as opposed to ph.d's, since the university probably cared only about his patient treatment, which brought the hospital big $. also he didnt teach any classes. but when i was taking a physiology class, there was a cardiologist that read lectures to us on cardiology, so im sure it's not uncommon for md's.

And for dentists-i dont think a dentist would work in any university-affiliated dental clinic. a dentist obviously still needs to work in the private practice. i guess a dentist might pay back to the university by being an attending in a dental school, but thats not something thats cool(i dont think it's any better than just treating your own patients in the private practice, so not worth it to take a pay cut).. i'd want to teach undergrad classes.

 

[LizzyM]

I actually worked in some lab after my freshman year, where the lab supervisor was an md(no ph.d.) who did basic physiology research and had grad students under him. he worked part-time at the university-affiliated hospital(neurology). I bet he took a substantial pay-cut as opposed to the private practice, but i never asked him any questions outside of his research. But i also bet he was much more independent in the choice of research that he was doing as opposed to ph.d's, since the university probably cared only about his patient treatment, which brought the hospital big $. also he didnt teach any classes. but when i was taking a physiology class, there was a cardiologist that read lectures to us on cardiology, so im sure it's not uncommon for md's.

And for dentists-i dont think a dentist would work in any university-affiliated dental clinic. a dentist obviously still needs to work in the private practice. i guess a dentist might pay back to the university by being an attending in a dental school, but thats not something thats cool(i dont think it's any better than just treating your own patients in the private practice, so not worth it to take a pay cut).. i'd want to teach undergrad classes.

When you say that you want to teach undergrads, do you mean college students or dental school students? There was (maybe still is) a dentist who taught anatomy at one of the med schools in NYC but I think that it is highly unusual.

My dentist was on the faculty at a dental school (directed the residency program, IIRC) and was part of a group practice of dentists all of whom were dental school faculty members. (He has since retired.) So that's where the clinical comes in. Teaching is done in the clinical setting or in the lecture hall. More docs teach at the "bedside" than in the lecture hall.

Just a few things. Medical practices don't bring money to the hospital although if they generate admissions then the hospital gets money (it may make or lose money on those admissions -- not all admissions are "good" for the hospital's bottom line). Research is funded through research grants. Anyone can do research if they can get the funding -- funding is the really hard part. That neurologist was, no doubt, getting funded to do his lab work.

 

[bor0000]

When you say that you want to teach undergrads, do you mean college students or dental school students? There was (maybe still is) a dentist who taught anatomy at one of the med schools in NYC but I think that it is highly unusual.

My dentist was on the faculty at a dental school (directed the residency program, IIRC) and was part of a group practice of dentists all of whom were dental school faculty members. (He has since retired.) So that's where the clinical comes in. Teaching is done in the clinical setting or in the lecture hall. More docs teach at the "bedside" than in the lecture hall.

Just a few things. Medical practices don't bring money to the hospital although if they generate admissions then the hospital gets money (it may make or lose money on those admissions -- not all admissions are "good" for the hospital's bottom line). Research is funded through research grants. Anyone can do research if they can get the funding -- funding is the really hard part. That neurologist was, no doubt, getting funded to do his lab work.

I personally am not really interested in this stuff, im just curious. Yeah, assuming i were to be a professor, i'd want to teach upper level undergrad courses(not the dental school). Like some of those seminar-type courses in bio where undergrads and/or grads can come in and discuss various research papers. Or better yet some regular undergrad course that i found interesting.

Well i think the university gives the professor his office and his expensive equipment, like all those microscopes,etc.... Then of course whether he generates $20k in funding or $100k is up to him. The doctor probably doesnt care so much, since most of his income is still from his clinical practice.

I wonder if a doctor were hired by the university to do research, for example as an associate professor, would he then be allowed to teach undergrads as well?

 

[TheMightyAngus]

Your perspective changes once you grow up and are in mid-career. Yeah it might be fun to be a TA and teach your friends, but to do that for your job, day in and day out, is entirely different. I have yet to meet a tenured professor at a med school that enjoys lecturing students. Not a single one out of the ten or so that I've gotten to know. For them, teaching is a chore. It's different for teaching grad school because seminars revolve heavily on discussion and participation. But for lecture courses, half of the students are always asleep/not paying attention. I even know a guy who gave up a job teaching at a med school for teaching at a community college because it was more fulfilling.

 

[LizzyM]

I personally am not really interested in this stuff, im just curious. Yeah, assuming i were to be a professor, i'd want to teach upper level undergrad courses(not the dental school). Like some of those seminar-type courses in bio where undergrads and/or grads can come in and discuss various research papers. Or better yet some regular undergrad course that i found interesting.

The people who teach those seminars generally have a strong research background and do research most of the time with just a few hours of teaching per week. Someone wanting to teach undergrad courses in the biological or social sciences usually has a PhD in that discipline.

Well i think the university gives the professor his office and his expensive equipment, like all those microscopes,etc.... Then of course whether he generates $20k in funding or $100k is up to him. The doctor probably doesnt care so much, since most of his income is still from his clinical practice.

While a lab may be minimally equiped when someone is recruited, the faculty member is expected to generate funding to cover a proportion of their salary based on the proportion of their time devoted to research. The funding also covers supplies, new equipment, the stipends of graduate students and the salaries of technicians and other ancillary staff. The university also gets what are called "indirects" which are additional funds based on the size of the direct costs of research. This money is used by the university to pay for things like the human resources staff, research administration, building up-grades, utilities, etc.

The university has limited lab space and they are going to provide it to the investigators who can generate the most income from that space.

I wonder if a doctor were hired by the university to do research, for example as an associate professor, would he then be allowed to teach undergrads as well?

Doctoral students usually begin a career in academics by serving as TAs and teaching a section of a lower level course. After earning the doctorate they may be hired to teach a "full load" with mimimal time for research or writing. Others (particularly in the sciences) do additional post-doctoral training with a focus on research. Once hired as a faculty member they negotiate some balance between classroom time and lab (library) time. Professors usually work up from teaching undergrads to the teaching of graduate students and supervising doctoral candidates. At some very small schools, full professors teach introductory courses but that is usually the task left to the lowest man on the totem pole.