Academy internship Pubs

[The Cinnabon]

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Hey all

Since I know we have some people who have matched at pretty competitive internships. I'm wondering what the typical publication profile of a successful applicant looks like at academy or other "academicy" sites?

Really, I'm just curious to know if I'm hitting benchmarks for these sites and good goals to set for the duration of my PhD.

 

[cara susanna]

I interviewed at some of those sites and most people had about 5-10 pubs, although some had more than that. Grant funding was also a huge boon. I myself had no grant funding and iirc 5 pubs, I didn't match to an academy site but I made the final cuts at a lot of them, or at least so they told me. I also know that I matched at the site I did (VA affiliated with an AMC and offering a research rotation) because of my research credentials, as the new TD prioritized that first and foremost when submitting rankings.

You might also find this article informative: APA PsycNet

 

[LM02]

A handful of pubs will get you in the door - 5ish or more is a good benchmark. Like meeting the threshold for clinical hours, more is not always looked at as necessarily "better." Faculty recognize that productivity is partially a function of the student, but also a function of the environment. For example, are you coming from a lab where there are a lot of secondary analyses of existing data, and lots of pubs coming out? Or are you coming from a lab where there's a big focus on RCTs that take forever to complete? If you have a lot of pubs, how many are you first or second author on? Other markers of research commitment and productivity, including conference presentations and grants (both large and small) help too.

Don't underestimate that - even for Academy programs - the faculty are intimately aware of the aims and purpose of internship, and this is a primarily clinical year. Your preparedness for the clinical parts of internship will be the most important. That doesn't necessarily mean more hours (see above), but it does mean having robust clinical experiences and an expressed enthusiasm for what you will be doing for the next year of your training.

 

[R. Matey]

I hope I'm wrong about this six years after I went out on internship, but you might be at a bit of a disadvantage coming from a counseling PhD program. I went out for one of these years ago and was told they flat out do not admit counseling students. That's one site though and I welcome stories to the contrary.

 

[The Cinnabon]

I hope I'm wrong about this six years after I went out on internship, but you might be at a bit of a disadvantage coming from a counseling PhD program. I went out for one of these years ago and was told they flat out do not admit counseling students. That's one site though and I welcome stories that prove me wrong.

I'm expecting this, which kinda sucks but is what it is


Luckily APPIC publishes data on who is coming from what type of program, and it seems like research heavy VAMCs have no issue taking counseling psych. I'm meeting with another Counseling Psych PhD grad who got an internship at a highly selective site that doesn't often take Counseling students and I'm wondering how they pulled it off.

 

[R. Matey]

Luckily APPIC publishes data on who is coming from what type of program, and it seems like research heavy VAMCs have no issue taking counseling psych. I'm meeting with another Counseling Psych PhD grad who got an internship at a highly selective site that doesn't often take Counseling students and I'm wondering how they pulled it off.

I can see that with VAs if your primary placement is in VA, rather than the AMC. The site I am speaking of was an AMC only placement.

 

[futureapppsy2]

A handful of pubs will get you in the door - 5ish or more is a good benchmark. Like meeting the threshold for clinical hours, more is not always looked at as necessarily "better." Faculty recognize that productivity is partially a function of the student, but also a function of the environment. For example, are you coming from a lab where there are a lot of secondary analyses of existing data, and lots of pubs coming out? Or are you coming from a lab where there's a big focus on RCTs that take forever to complete? If you have a lot of pubs, how many are you first or second author on? Other markers of research commitment and productivity, including conference presentations and grants (both large and small) help too.

Don't underestimate that - even for Academy programs - the faculty are intimately aware of the aims and purpose of internship, and this is a primarily clinical year. Your preparedness for the clinical parts of internship will be the most important. That doesn't necessarily mean more hours (see above), but it does mean having robust clinical experiences and an expressed enthusiasm for what you will be doing for the next year of your training.

Seconding that second paragraph—even the most research-focused folks see a relative decline in research productivity during internship because it’s truly a clinical year.

 

[The Cinnabon]

Seconding that second paragraph—even the most research-focused folks see a relative decline in research productivity during internship because it’s truly a clinical year.

To this effect ... are name brand internships kinda whatever (assuming you're getting quality clinical training)? Nice to have but far from required for academically oriented folk?

 

[PsychPsyance]

To this effect ... are name brand internships kinda whatever (assuming you're getting quality clinical training)? Nice to have but far from required for academically oriented folk?

I think this depends on several factors, including where you went to school. I went to a very small PhD program, and was told on the job market (at more than one place) that the fact that I did my internship at XXXXX influenced their decision to invite me. In contrast, if you went to a great program and had a known mentor, the internship is probably less important.

 

[cara susanna]

To this effect ... are name brand internships kinda whatever (assuming you're getting quality clinical training)? Nice to have but far from required for academically oriented folk?

It's definitely not a dealbreaker. Everyone knows that internship is a clinical year. That being said, it's probably easier to get a post doc at a site where you did internship.

 

[oliversacks4thewin]

To this effect ... are name brand internships kinda whatever (assuming you're getting quality clinical training)? Nice to have but far from required for academically oriented folk?

Currently employed at a pediatric AMC. I will say that it ends up being a small world for AMC's, so often times conversations can arise informally regarding the site you trained at. For example, I was at a conference and ended up chatting with a person who was recruiting for a prestigious position and the conversation literally started by them looking at my name tag and recognizing some of the psychologists from my site. Having said that, you would be surprised what training sites actually garner attention, as some of the "big names" in your head, are sometimes actually less topical than other training sites. The fellowship that started the conversation mentioned above was not at one of the "big names," per se, but the clinicians and researchers at my site have garnered a lot of positive reactions from others in their area of expertise.

From my experience (n=1) on our admission committee for internship and fellowship, the larger emphasis is if your research pubs align with typical AMC research topics. For example, health psychology topics tend to be a bit more favored in our area, as the expectation is that you will likely be working with more medically complex patients than other locations, and potentially publishing future research within these sectors.

Happy to take a direct message to answer any additional questions.

 

[Ollie123]

Agree with the above, 5+ is enough to make you competitive and after it is up to other factors. Obviously 50 papers all in Science/Nature and a Nobel prize would be "better" but I think effects start to plateau at around 10 papers in mid-tier specialty journals.

The value of internship for someone academic is really just in building a network and hopefully landing someplace with good post-doc opportunities so you can skip an extra move. No one cares a lick where you did your internship and some of the "name brand" internships (*cough* YALE *cough) are steaming piles of hot garbage from a training perspective. Or were I should say - I'm far enough out of the game at this point I may not be up to date on how programs have evolved.

I think internship is mostly correlation rather than causation. Academics are more interested in academically-oriented internships, tend to be people willing to move wherever since they realize they are on a competitive path and thus go to these places more often. It isn't that you "need" an internship at Brown to get an academic job. But matching for internship at Brown is probably great if you are geographically flexible, Brown is a top choice for post-doc (which does matter) and your long term trajectory includes staying in a large AMC (because they tend to keep a huge number of their interns around).