Accelerated Masters in San Francisco, Your experience with the USF, SFSU, and UCSF?

[tolachi]

UCSF appears to be the hands down winner here, but I really have little chance of getting in due to my undergrad GPA. Moving on to the more attainable accelerated masters programs in nursing at USF and SFSU. Does anybody here have any experience on the pros and cons of these programs and their relative quality? Are there good reasons to go with one over the other?

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[Mr.Nurse]

UCSF appears to be the hands down winner here, but I really have little chance of getting in due to my undergrad GPA. Moving on to the more attainable accelerated masters programs in nursing at USF and SFSU. Does anybody here have any experience on the pros and cons of these programs and their relative quality? Are there good reasons to go with one over the other?

I'm at USF in the BSN program with two years left. I must say, the faculty and clinical staff are excellent. Most of the professors have PhDs or EdDs from either USF or UCSF. UCSF is not far away and you will inevitably do clinicals their even if you go to USF (You can literally see UCSF from the hilltop campus). USF offers a nice private education but at a high cost. The tuition is $24,000. SFSU is much more economical (I think the tuition is a little over $2000 a year) and offers a great teachers aswell. It is, however, public and the program is impacted, meaning they have to limit enrollement, which is true at the private schools too like USF, but USF still takes more students than SFSU. SFSU offers accerated MSNs with emphases in Clinical Nurse Specialist, Administration, or Public Health. USF offers an MEO (Master's Enry Option) for non-nurses with BS or BA but the emphases are in Healthcare Systems Leadership (much more than an administrative degree-you can really work this degree how you want to) or the Clinical Nurse Leader option. The Clinical Nurse Leader program is a pilot from the American Association of Colleges of Nursing and is a new role for entry-level nurses. I wouldn't recommend participating in the experiment. If you can't get into UCSF, I would (bias) suggest USF as the plan B just because of the attention you get, the name (our Master's program is ranked among the top 50 nationwide and SFSU is not anywhere in the ranks list), the networks you can form from alumni working all over the bay area in high positions, your guaranteed spot in required classes (SFSU classes fill up fast and I here too often that people can't get a particular class, lengthening the time in the program), and the campus is beautiful. But it all comes at a price though. I'm not going to bash SFSU. They have a good program. Basically, you'll get a job after graduating from any nursing school, regardless of your own take on the quality of instruction. I personally don't want to be an advaned practice nurse (i.e. Nurse Practitioner, Nurse Anesthetist, Nurse-Midwive, Clinical Nurse Specialist) because they are such different roles when compared to traditional bedside nursing. Besides, the pay is not much different with the exception of Nurse Anesthesia. I plan on getting the MSN in Healthcare Systems Leadership from USF since I will still be a nurse, but with additional or advanced education in nursing administration, case management, informatics, infection control, quality management, and patient/nursing staff education. I would like to be a patient care manager someday for crtical care units. That is totally different then being a NP, CNS, CNM, or CRNA. Besides, if I later turn out to want that, then I can go back for a post-master's certificate for a year, since I will already have the MSN.

Also check out Samuel Merritt College in Oakland, San Jose State University, and Dominican University of California in San Rafael.

Good luck.

 

[boogita]

I am a SF native. Went to undergrad at SFSU and when I decided to go back to school for my nursing degree thought about SFSU, UCSF, and USF. So I can give you a little insight on how I decided.

When choosing a program it's important to look at is to make sure that you can get a BSN if you are in an accelerated program. When I was originally going to nursing school one of my big draw backs from UCSF was that I didn't get a BSN. I wanted to make sure that I had that degree becuase I felt that in then end someone with a BSN may get a head (both in pay or otherwise) than one who didn't.

I also wanted to make sure that I didn't have to go straight thru. When I first got into nursing school I thought I could breeze right thru it and go right into my MSN but I quickly realized that I wanted to practice as a nurse first before I got my MSN. UCSF doesn't really want to allow people to take a break between the time they get their RN before they start their MSN. I really believe that time/break is necessary (my opinion).

So really that left me with SFSU and USF (as far as the schools in SF went). I actually went to talk to a academic adviser to help me figure out what to do. USF is a private religious school. My background didn't fit with a religious school. That's not to say that it would be a problem but the way it was addressed to me was it might not be worth my money to spend on a private school that is openly religious when my views and theirs might not coincide. That said USF was out of the picture. I would really look at your opinions on issues and talk to people from the school about especially issues regarding reproductive health.

Mr. Nurse makes a really good point about SFSU. It's a public school, so you will experience things like difficulty getting placements or even getting into the program. I went to SFSU for my first undergrad degree (BA) and wasn't impressed with the school at all. I really felt that if you weren't some one who pushed for what you wanted it wasn't going to happen. So just rememeber that if you choose SFSU it might be a lot of work as far as you pushing to get what you want.

However, in then end just like Mr. Nurse said it's pretty easy to get a job as a nurse. I didn't choose to go to any of those schools I went all the way across the country to Johns Hopkins. I still am not sure if that was worth all the money. I decided to take two years off to work as a nurse before I continue to get my MSN from Hopkins.

 

[tolachi]

Thanks for the two excellent and informative posts. It is nice to hear from people who have some experience attending the schools in question. If anybody else has something to add please feel free to post your thoughts.

 

[Mr.Nurse]

I am a SF native. Went to undergrad at SFSU and when I decided to go back to school for my nursing degree thought about SFSU, UCSF, and USF. So I can give you a little insight on how I decided.

When choosing a program it's important to look at is to make sure that you can get a BSN if you are in an accelerated program. When I was originally going to nursing school one of my big draw backs from UCSF was that I didn't get a BSN. I wanted to make sure that I had that degree becuase I felt that in then end someone with a BSN may get a head (both in pay or otherwise) than one who didn't.

I also wanted to make sure that I didn't have to go straight thru. When I first got into nursing school I thought I could breeze right thru it and go right into my MSN but I quickly realized that I wanted to practice as a nurse first before I got my MSN. UCSF doesn't really want to allow people to take a break between the time they get their RN before they start their MSN. I really believe that time/break is necessary (my opinion).

So really that left me with SFSU and USF (as far as the schools in SF went). I actually went to talk to a academic adviser to help me figure out what to do. USF is a private religious school. My background didn't fit with a religious school. That's not to say that it would be a problem but the way it was addressed to me was it might not be worth my money to spend on a private school that is openly religious when my views and theirs might not coincide. That said USF was out of the picture. I would really look at your opinions on issues and talk to people from the school about especially issues regarding reproductive health.

Mr. Nurse makes a really good point about SFSU. It's a public school, so you will experience things like difficulty getting placements or even getting into the program. I went to SFSU for my first undergrad degree (BA) and wasn't impressed with the school at all. I really felt that if you weren't some one who pushed for what you wanted it wasn't going to happen. So just rememeber that if you choose SFSU it might be a lot of work as far as you pushing to get what you want.

However, in then end just like Mr. Nurse said it's pretty easy to get a job as a nurse. I didn't choose to go to any of those schools I went all the way across the country to Johns Hopkins. I still am not sure if that was worth all the money. I decided to take two years off to work as a nurse before I continue to get my MSN from Hopkins.

I hear this all the time from people that are not familiar with the Jesuit order of Roman Catholics. University of San Francisco is very secular! The one, yes only one, theology class I and all students are required to take can be substituted for all kinds of things. I am taking "Death and Dying," offered by th school of nursing in its place as it looks at End-of-Life issues from a variety of religious backgrounds and perspectives. No one is required to go to mass, or pray before class or anything like that. We have two gay and lesbian clubs and a faculty sponsored Alliance program that trains and certifies students and faculty to become openly available to discuss sexual identity issues with GLBT and questioning students. We are ranked as the 11th, yes 11th, most diverse campus in the United States by US News and World Report (I still think we could do better in bringing more African-Americans to the campus, but just my opinion). We have a Judaic Studies program (yes a Jewish center for studies at a catholic school). My point is the USF is definitely not some steretypical catholic school that has a bunch of priests and nuns teaching classes and stuffing dogma down our throats. In fact, I love USF because the school values spiritual growth, whatever doctrine that may lie in or not. It's refreshing to be able to know that USF not only wants me to grow intellectually, physically (You will be required to do some excercise as a nursing student), but also spiritually. I always pay a visit to the inter-faith chapel during my busy days to collect myself and remember my spirit.

Anyhow, just wanted to clear that misconception up. Like I said, USF's Masters program is ranked in the top 50 by US News and World Report and SFSU is not even ranked. If you want to become an Advanced Practice Nurse (i.e. Clinical Nurse Specialist, Nurse Practitioner) then SFSU may be the answer, since USF doesn't offer that. But if you want to be have a multi-faceted graduate education as a RN with advanced skills in administration, case management, infection control, informatics, unit direction, patient and nursing education, then got to USF. USF also has three other joint degree programs in Information Systems |(MSN/MSIS), Public/Healthcare Administration (MSN/MPA in Healthcare Administration, and Business Administration (MSN/MBA).

About getting the BSN. I'm not sure how much that really matters to employers. Let's face it, very few nurses have a graduate education. The majority of the 2.6 million nurses in the US have an Associates degree (about 65%) and the remainder BSN's and higher. By going into a MSN program, you are already ahead of the bunch. Plus, you will acutally have more schooling than a traditional BSN to MSN student, since you have a undergrad degree in something outside of nursing and will be adding on education needed to become an RN and then earning an MSN. The way I see it, that is a plus. Getting a BSN in the process seems a bit redundant unless that is where you wanted to stop, or like the Boogita said, take time off (over a year) to really work as an RN and then go on for a MSN. We have a few instructors who have their undergrad degrees in other fields and they have made out quite well. The fact is that nursing is still not seen as a vaery desirable career and many nurses enter the field later in life. Employers are very aware of this and welcome all. Getting the BSN to fill some need or desire to have completed the traditional undergraduate preparation for a Master of Science in Nursing is a little silly to me. But do what you need to feel closure and complete. I really don't think, however, the BSN will give you an edge over other MSN nurses with a BSN as their undergrad--just my honest opinion.

If you want a private education from a school not affiliated with any religious background, then try Samuel Merritt. It is a lot smaller than USF and is only health sciences, so it doesn't have NCAA baskeball and sports teams and all that other college stuff. UCSF, by the way, won't give you that either. But you probably are done with all that having got a BS/BA from some university with the above anyway (I'm guessing).

I would really try hard to get into UCSF though. It is the best! Your second choice really depends on you.

 

[Mr.Nurse]

I actually went to talk to a academic adviser to help me figure out what to do. USF is a private religious school. My background didn't fit with a religious school. That's not to say that it would be a problem but the way it was addressed to me was it might not be worth my money to spend on a private school that is openly religious when my views and theirs might not coincide. That said USF was out of the picture. I would really look at your opinions on issues and talk to people from the school about especially issues regarding reproductive health.

Who did you talk to by the way? I really am in disbelief when I hear you say that the adviser you talked to impressed upon you that going to USF would not be "worth it" given its "openy" religious background and views that might contradict your own. That is a bunch of crap. I can't count how many instructors I had that were pro-choice! In fact, the nursing faculty is quite feminist and our dean is a man! Yes, a male nurse! Your views are your views and USF doesn't impose any such stances on you. I don't really think they have them. We have plenty of openly gay and lesbian faculty (which the catholic church at large disagrees with) and I'm sure many who have had abortions. We have had class discussions with people who oppose abortion and those who support it. The matter really is in how you as a nurse will keep such stances to yourself and not impose them on your patients and also not judge your patients for the views they have. We are professionals and cannot refuse care for anyone based on our political views. Of course there are some execeptions to this, but I won't go into them.

 

[BSN]

UCSF appears to be the hands down winner here, but I really have little chance of getting in due to my undergrad GPA. Moving on to the more attainable accelerated masters programs in nursing at USF and SFSU. Does anybody here have any experience on the pros and cons of these programs and their relative quality? Are there good reasons to go with one over the other?

Accelerated Masters? I don't know about this . Many people question Accelerated education, not to say that it is any easier but just to cramed. I guess it depends on what type Nursing masters you are looking for, just be careful and good luck! We need more nures with higher educaton🙂

 

[boogita]

Let me clarify. I was trying to narrow my choices in schools. My background is heavily openly pro-choice. The adviser suggested that it may 1.) be more difficult to get into a relgious school becuase someone on the admission committee may have a problem with that background
2.) may not be as liberal as a school as I would like

so they were just trying to help me narrow down choices.

"The matter really is in how you as a nurse will keep such stances to yourself and not impose them on your patients and also not judge your patients for the views they have. We are professionals and cannot refuse care for anyone based on our political views. Of course there are some execeptions to this, but I won't go into them."

Actually I would like to hear when it's okay to refuse care of a patient based on my political views becuase I can't think of an instance of the top of my head. I think what people may have a hard time understanding is just becuase a person is pro choice it DOES NOT mean that they believe that every women should have an abortion. I allow women to make that decision but I do believe in giving them option including adoption and abortion.

I am not trying to start some heated discussion or sound like I am upset (it's always hard to tell emotions written down). I just know from my exerience both in and out of nursing school that it was important to me to go to a school that was open and I didn't want to take the risk that a religious would lean anti-choice or just not talk about it.

If it makes you feel any better I didn't do any better with the school I went to. We didn't spend any time talking about Contraceptive options (except one lunch time during break if we felt like attending a metting) and the information we had about Emergency Contraception (aka 'the morning after pill') was out dated.

 

[Mr.Nurse]

Let me clarify. I was trying to narrow my choices in schools. My background is heavily openly pro-choice. The adviser suggested that it may 1.) be more difficult to get into a relgious school becuase someone on the admission committee may have a problem with that background
2.) may not be as liberal as a school as I would like

so they were just trying to help me narrow down choices.

"The matter really is in how you as a nurse will keep such stances to yourself and not impose them on your patients and also not judge your patients for the views they have. We are professionals and cannot refuse care for anyone based on our political views. Of course there are some execeptions to this, but I won't go into them."

Actually I would like to hear when it's okay to refuse care of a patient based on my political views becuase I can't think of an instance of the top of my head. I think what people may have a hard time understanding is just becuase a person is pro choice it DOES NOT mean that they believe that every women should have an abortion. I allow women to make that decision but I do believe in giving them option including adoption and abortion.

I am not trying to start some heated discussion or sound like I am upset (it's always hard to tell emotions written down). I just know from my exerience both in and out of nursing school that it was important to me to go to a school that was open and I didn't want to take the risk that a religious would lean anti-choice or just not talk about it.

If it makes you feel any better I didn't do any better with the school I went to. We didn't spend any time talking about Contraceptive options (except one lunch time during break if we felt like attending a metting) and the information we had about Emergency Contraception (aka 'the morning after pill') was out dated.

"We are professionals and cannot refuse care for anyone based on our political views. Of course there are some execeptions to this, but I won't go into them."

Your correct in stating that there are not exceptions when it comes to refusal of patient care based on political views. You simply must provide services. I mistated myself. What I meant to say was that there are exceptions when dealing with personal religious beliefs. The scenario I had in mind was that of a women undergoing an abortion in a hospital and you (hypothetical), the nurse assisting in the operation, feel strongly that abortion is immoral and is murder. You could not participate in an act that violated your spiritual/religious convictions. That would be the exception I referred to. Now, please don't go off the deep end and think that if an R.N. happens to be a member of the K.K.K. (a religious organization) that they have the right to not care for patients who are African, Jewish, Hispanic, Gay, etc. There is a difference between religion and racisim. If the two happen to co-exist, as in the case of the K.K.K., then the nurse's discrimination should be viewed entirely as racial, which is unlawful and wrong.

I am personally pro-life, but for everyone else, pro-choice. I don't think the law should decide when life starts. It should be a personal decision. I would care for a women post-abortion. I have no problem with that. I would not, however, participate in the actual operation, because to me, I would be an accomplice to murder. I feel strongly about that. And you will find many other healthcare professionals who feel the same.

Perhaps USF was too reserved for you. You seem very politically conscious and you would probably be happier at a place like UC Berkeley (unfortuantely, they have no nursing school). But don't paint a picture of USF as being this "monastery" or something. It's ridiculous. Students at USF may not have as many demonstrations as other San Francisco bay area schools, but we aren't pupils of the Pope either. 😎

I am a little surprised you would choose John Hopkins over University of San Francisco.That crusty old east coast, presbyterian, private school is just as reserved (if not, more) as USF. Granted it is an excellent institution on par with some of the nations best schools, it doesn't seem too good a fit with someone who has such strong, leftist, political stances.

I think nurses in general, if you look back historically, are politically/socially apathetic. We care about our patients and we care about our profession as a whole. That's it! We really haven't made strong pushes for the progress of many social/political issues. That's why many feminists hate us. Can't blame them. The vast majority of nurses are composed of teh followign demographics: white, female, conservative (whether Democrat or Republican), Christian. Pretty homogenous! Yeah, we now got a sprinkling of asians, blacks, and latinos--oh yeah, and men! 🙄 , but it sure ain't enough.

I hope you are part of the new generation of nurses that doesn't just take a back seat in society, but fights for issues that nurses really do have great input on, like abortion. Start an organization for pro-choice nurses, or maybe a contingent of nurses within a larger organization like NOW (I think they already have one??).

Nursing has the answers to many of society's problems. We just need to realize it and stop accepting the status quo. 😉

 

[boogita]

"We are professionals and cannot refuse care for anyone based on our political views. Of course there are some execeptions to this, but I won't go into them."

Your correct in stating that there are not exceptions when it comes to refusal of patient care based on political views. You simply must provide services. I mistated myself. What I meant to say was that there are exceptions when dealing with personal religious beliefs. The scenario I had in mind was that of a women undergoing an abortion in a hospital and you (hypothetical), the nurse assisting in the operation, feel strongly that abortion is immoral and is murder. You could not participate in an act that violated your spiritual/religious convictions. That would be the exception I referred to. Now, please don't go off the deep end and think that if an R.N. happens to be a member of the K.K.K. (a religious organization) that they have the right to not care for patients who are African, Jewish, Hispanic, Gay, etc. There is a difference between religion and racisim. If the two happen to co-exist, as in the case of the K.K.K., then the nurse's discrimination should be viewed entirely as racial, which is unlawful and wrong.

I am personally pro-life, but for everyone else, pro-choice. I don't think the law should decide when life starts. It should be a personal decision. I would care for a women post-abortion. I have no problem with that. I would not, however, participate in the actual operation, because to me, I would be an accomplice to murder. I feel strongly about that. And you will find many other healthcare professionals who feel the same.

Perhaps USF was too reserved for you. You seem very politically conscious and you would probably be happier at a place like UC Berkeley (unfortuantely, they have no nursing school). But don't paint a picture of USF as being this "monastery" or something. It's ridiculous. Students at USF may not have as many demonstrations as other San Francisco bay area schools, but we aren't pupils of the Pope either. 😎

I am a little surprised you would choose John Hopkins over University of San Francisco.That crusty old east coast, presbyterian, private school is just as reserved (if not, more) as USF. Granted it is an excellent institution on par with some of the nations best schools, it doesn't seem too good a fit with someone who has such strong, leftist, political stances.

I think nurses in general, if you look back historically, are politically/socially apathetic. We care about our patients and we care about our profession as a whole. That's it! We really haven't made strong pushes for the progress of many social/political issues. That's why many feminists hate us. Can't blame them. The vast majority of nurses are composed of teh followign demographics: white, female, conservative (whether Democrat or Republican), Christian. Pretty homogenous! Yeah, we now got a sprinkling of asians, blacks, and latinos--oh yeah, and men! 🙄 , but it sure ain't enough.

I hope you are part of the new generation of nurses that doesn't just take a back seat in society, but fights for issues that nurses really do have great input on, like abortion. Start an organization for pro-choice nurses, or maybe a contingent of nurses within a larger organization like NOW (I think they already have one??).

Nursing has the answers to many of society's problems. We just need to realize it and stop accepting the status quo. 😉

I think again you misunderstood what I was saying. I never intended to paint a picture of USF being a monistary however, in my case, it was a little too conservative.

You are right about JHU. I made a decision based on the liberalness of their public health school. Hopkins gave me many opprotunites that other schools couldn't give me. For example...I had the opportuninity to work in a prison. Something that very few other schools would allow me to do. (I still work in the prison today). Hopkins was also a good stepping stone for me to get my masters in nursing and my masters in Public Health.

I do agree with you on the need for nurses to be more pro-active. FYI I am involved in many different pro-choice organizations and do help raise awareness in both work and pleasure about the importance of nurses and the issue of choice.