Acceptance Rate

[Jarteblu]

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I was just browsing some medical school statistics and I saw that most medical schools have a ~5% acceptance rate. This got me thinking.
-How many medical schools does the average applicant apply to?
-The average GPA for accepted student is ~ 3.5-3.9. SO, Do premeds apply to as many schools as possible? As in like 30?
-What approximate percentage of premeds that truly strive for med school eventually get accepted?

 

[libertyyne]

I was just browsing some medical school statistics and I saw that most medical schools have a ~5% acceptance rate. This got me thinking.
-How many medical schools does the average applicant apply to?
-The average GPA for accepted student is ~ 3.5-3.9. SO, Do premeds apply to as many schools as possible? As in like 30?
-What approximate percentage of premeds that truly strive for med school eventually get accepted?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=md+matriculant+vs+applicants#

 

[Jarteblu]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=md+matriculant+vs+applicants#

ugggh
edit: i dont want stats from a textbook, but approximate stats from people who have been through this situation

 

[libertyyne]

ugggh
edit: i dont want stats from a textbook, but approximate stats from people who have been through this situation

Your questions are questions that ask for answers based on data.
Subjective experiences vary a whole lot.
60% of people who apply do not get into medical school
I dont understand what the GPA range has to do with the number of schools. i think the average is close to 15 but SDN may be different.
There is some randomness to the process in terms of "fit" with the school, however the numbers really do matter LizzyM is a good yardstick for competitiveness.

 

[Cotterpin]

I was just browsing some medical school statistics and I saw that most medical schools have a ~5% acceptance rate. This got me thinking.
-How many medical schools does the average applicant apply to?
-The average GPA for accepted student is ~ 3.5-3.9. SO, Do premeds apply to as many schools as possible? As in like 30?
-What approximate percentage of premeds that truly strive for med school eventually get accepted?

I don't know what the average is, but some people will apply to 10 schools and others will apply to 30. The conventional wisdom on SDN is that it's in your best interest to apply to as many schools as you can afford, while still being able to keep up with writing all those secondaries.

Every cycle, about 60% of all applicants don't get accepted anywhere at all. But it's hard to say how many of those applicants "truly strive" and end up succeeding during a different cycle.

Btw, "approximate stats" from people who have been through the experience aren't actually stats. We can either link you to official stats or we can give you anecdotal evidence.

 

[Sardinia]

ugggh
edit: i dont want stats from a textbook, but approximate stats from people who have been through this situation

LMAO.

 

[Jarteblu]

So, about all applicant have a GPA of ~3.5-3.9. So what separates applicant with the same GPA and scores. If there are 100 People with nearly all the same scores, then what separates them?

 

[Cotterpin]

So, about all applicant have a GPA of ~3.5-3.9. So what separates applicant with the same GPA and scores. If there are 100 People with nearly all the same scores, then what separates them?

Zillions of differences in life experiences, personality, interests, extra curriculars, etc. So many things.

 

[libertyyne]

So, about all applicant have a GPA of ~3.5-3.9. So what separates applicant with the same GPA and scores. If there are 100 People with nearly all the same scores, then what separates them?

There are a billion guides out there to answer this question. You need to do some research.

 

[partypantss]

So, about all applicant have a GPA of ~3.5-3.9. So what separates applicant with the same GPA and scores. If there are 100 People with nearly all the same scores, then what separates them?

Literally everything else on the app... How you spent your time during four years of college mainly.

ugggh
edit: i dont want stats from a textbook, but approximate stats from people who have been through this situation

I had to re-read this a couple times to try and figure out why you were being sarcastic.. You serious? Why would you ever want anecdotal evidence OVER actual statistics? I think you need a good ol' logic calibration.

 

[Jarteblu]

Do they really spend hours comparing a few applications? Do they really factor every single aspect of the application? Or do they just pick willy nilly?(exaggerated but you get the point)

 

[Sardinia]

@Jarteblu They group up the students into 12 districts and then have them send two model students to be representative of the entire district. The representatives that win ensure that they gain entry into medical school by competing in a series of trials against the other representatives. If they win, their entire district also gains entry before the harsh season of winter begins.

 

[partypantss]

Do they really spend hours comparing a few applications? Do they really factor every single aspect of the application? Or do they just pick willy nilly?(exaggerated but you get the point)

Yes, for those applications that make it to the top of the pack after basic screening.
Different schools care about different things.
No.

(it sounds like you should really do some reading up on the process or talk to an adviser about this. These are very basic questions that some googling can show you...)

 

[ATPsynthase123]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=md+matriculant+vs+applicants#

Snarky! I like it!


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[On_The_Way_Up]

The average student applies to 14 medical schools.

 

[lpp06]

Side note: Anyone know if any post-cycle polls have been done on SDN to asses the forum's acceptance rate in a given year? I'd love to see SDN's comparison to the ~42% national acceptance rate.

Brb while I rabbit hole down the search bar (edits to come as I yield results):

LizzyM Poll testing the validity of the "Thanksgiving Day" guideline:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/calling-all-2015-2016-applicants.1203041/#post-17800753

Shows that 81.4% of respondents held an acceptance (n=495)


...

LizzyM Poll testing the validity of the "Interviews Three, A doctor you will be" guideline:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/interviews-three-a-doctor-youll-be.1215042/#post-18008813

Shows that 75.3% of respondents held an acceptance (n=158)

 

[NotYou20]

So, about all applicant have a GPA of ~3.5-3.9. So what separates applicant with the same GPA and scores. If there are 100 People with nearly all the same scores, then what separates them?

School dependent but I highly doubt average applicant is that good. There's a lot of people who apply with bad numbers. Average matriculation data for each school can be found in the MSAR and 3.7 GPA average for those people is pretty standard. You don't want "approximate stats from people who have been through this situation" unless they're your clone

 

[WedgeDawg]

Most applicants apply to somewhere between 14-18 schools. Most people on SDN probably apply to 20-25.

The median cGPA for MD medical school matriculants is 3.7. The median MCAT is a 31, or approximately a 511 on the new scale.

Every year, around 44% of applicants to USMD schools end up matriculating.

 

[lpp06]

Since SDN there is no way to verify or even remotely model the information that posters present on SDN, trying to massage or analyze the data in any meaningful statistical manner is nearly useless. On OldPreMeds several years ago , I tried to apply a researcher-administered interview schedule project more in the lines of ethnographic studies or profiles of serial killers are aggregated. Even on a much smaller site, that had a much more "professional" culture, and being able to contact the posters directly, I found trying to gleen meaningful statistical data impossible and stuck with narrative info.

Additionally, any numeric data gathered really just raises the question how are SDN posters different than the applicant pool at large?

The verification part of the data is the big hurdle - who know who's really behind these handles:

It would be interesting to validate just how much SDN's population skews to the right.

 

[Jarteblu]

So on a side note; what percentage of college students who start as a premed, end up APPLYING to medical school?

 

[libertyyne]

So on a side note; what percentage of college students who start as a premed, end up APPLYING to medical school?

http://tinyurl.com/jm4lk8t

 

[libertyyne]

This is impossible to answer for the reason how do you define what a premed is?
Someone who as first day freshman declares that they are a premed?
Someone who completes first term Organic and says they are a premed?
What year do you start from? That is, do we count a "rate" from their initial freshman entrance date?
What about PostBacc students? SMPs? Career Changers?
Those who take the MCAT? But what about the length of time from when they take MCAT until apply? what cohort are they part of
How do you define them, capture them, figure how assign a cohort with the various paths that from undergraduate and graduate programs that lead to medical school?

I was part of a project on this some thirty years ago, when there was much more define path of 4 year undergraduates, standard course prerequisites, required committee letters and MCAT given only 3 times a year. We tried to used the definition of having being self-identified as a premed and having enrolled in second semester Organic and still found it difficult to track. Besides, it seemed the wrong question in the end.

It should be following thru those who indicate premed on day one freshman and how they drift off the premed path. Again, with the multitude of paths of courses that a student can take, it would seem to be a daunting task

This kind of research would probably be helpful in fixing the URM and Lower SES problem that medicine has.

 

[Jarteblu]

I should clarify. Out of every college that declares themselves a premed at any point in their college years. How many eventually apply to medical school

 

[aalamruad]

I should clarify. Out of every college that declares themselves a premed at any point in their college years. How many eventually apply to medical school

Probs like 10%

 

[libertyyne]

20 million undergrads total. 5 million seniors and 5 million juniors. 50000 Applicants. 20000 Matriculants. You do the math.

 

[aalamruad]

You do the math.

no

 

[libertyyne]

no

or dont.

 

[spartawdw]

no

Sorry this is unrelated but I love your avatar, it makes me want to ride The Jungle Cruise

Related to thread: I know half a dozen people who came in pre-med and realized that they loved something else (research, politics, etc) but had amazing grades and are doing very well in their field. So some people would say "oh wow they failed at being premed" but they just decided it wasn't for them.

 

[CavsFan2016]

At my school, I'd say about 500-750 students out of each class start college wanting to pursue Medicine. I'd say maybe 10 of those actually ever get accepted to an MD school
(This is specific to my school - a small state school)

There should be a reality TV show that follows like 10 freshman students who declare themselves as pre-meds and just switches between each student crying in the library until they drop out.

 

[libertyyne]

There should be a reality TV show that follows like 10 freshman students who declare themselves as pre-meds and just switches between each student crying in the library until they drop out.

There should be a reality TV show that follows like 10 freshman students who declare themselves as pre-meds and just switches between each student crying in the library until they drop out.

The season finale could be at ochem test results.

 

[Goro]

All I can tell you is ~ 60% of applicants never get accepted.

I was just browsing some medical school statistics and I saw that most medical schools have a ~5% acceptance rate. This got me thinking.
-How many medical schools does the average applicant apply to?
-The average GPA for accepted student is ~ 3.5-3.9. SO, Do premeds apply to as many schools as possible? As in like 30?
-What approximate percentage of premeds that truly strive for med school eventually get accepted?

 

[LizzyM]

Buy the MSAR. Best money you'll ever spend.

https://students-residents.aamc.org...-apply/medical-school-admission-requirements/

They don't give me a cut of the sales; I wish they did.

Most schools get an enormous number of applications, whittle the stack down to about 8 times the size of the class, interview those candidates, make more offers than they have seats (1.5 to 4 offers for every seat to be filled) and know that many of the most desirable candidates will have multiple offers and need to choose one school at the end.

In terms of proportion admitted, it isn't much different than trying to get into Princeton or Stanford for undergrad. The difference is that almost everyone who wants to go to college can find some college that will take them whereas ~60% of those who want to go to medical school will not get in anywhere.

 

[rolliespring]

The season finale could be at ochem test results.

What about that one kid that actually made it to med school?

 

[LizzyM]

This year AMCAS will process over 800,000 applications to individual schools (about 15 applications for each of 55,000 applications) to seat about 22,000 first year medical students. A little under half of those 22,000 will receive a single acceptance. So for each seat filled, admissions committee considers about 37 applications. Even assuming half of those applications are not complete or not highly competitive, that still is 18 competitive applications per seat. A school may only interview 6 candidates per seat. So 12 competitive applications are rejected pre interview. Of the 6 interviews per seat you may accept 1, high WL 1 other and low WL still another. So 3 competitive applications rejected post interview. In the end the school may get 50 original acceptees who matriculate, another 50 acceptees who decline, 50 high WL who also decline. So for seating a class of 100, you ultimately accepted 200 and left 100 WL dangling, say 50 of those get in elsewhere.

Essentially for each seat, you review 37 applications, reject 34, accept 2, WL 1 and 1 ultimately matriculates. This is the process at each individual school. Most of you have applied to 14-15 schools. Your application goes thru this process at each school. It takes time

It depends.... some schools will be very generous with post interview offers... At my school, of 60 interviews, it will reject only 6, admit 30 and waitlist 24, expecting that the 2/3rd of those with offers will go elsewhere. Of course, it is a fierce competition at the top for strong candidates and on average, those who are admitted to the top 20s have 4 offers (maybe more ... this is a number I was told years ago).

 

[makennacompton]

All I can tell you is ~ 60% of applicants never get accepted.

If 60% of applicants are rejected, then 40% are accepted. If schools have only a 5% acceptance rate, then the disparity between the two "acceptance" rates is accounted for by the fact that enough different distinct candidates get accepted to at least one of the 5% schools so that, cumulatively, there is a 40% acceptance rate even though, school by school, there is only a 5% acceptance rate. Also, I believe that the acceptance rate include DO schools, where the 5% number is a bit higher, so this may also explain how we get a 40% overall acceptance rate when the school themselves show only a 5% rate.

 

[libertyyne]

If 60% of applicants are rejected, then 40% are accepted. If schools have only a 5% acceptance rate, then the disparity between the two "acceptance" rates is accounted for by the fact that enough different distinct candidates get accepted to at least one of the 5% schools so that, cumulatively, there is a 40% acceptance rate even though, school by school, there is only a 5% acceptance rate. Also, I believe that the acceptance rate include DO schools, where the 5% number is a bit higher, so this may also explain how we get a 40% overall acceptance rate when the school themselves show only a 5% rate.

That number does not include DO.

 

[Goro]

You can try to make some complex mathematical formula if it makes you happy, but you can't make predictions about this process, because getting an accept is 100% on you.

If 60% of applicants are rejected, then 40% are accepted. If schools have only a 5% acceptance rate, then the disparity between the two "acceptance" rates is accounted for by the fact that enough different distinct candidates get accepted to at least one of the 5% schools so that, cumulatively, there is a 40% acceptance rate even though, school by school, there is only a 5% acceptance rate. Also, I believe that the acceptance rate include DO schools, where the 5% number is a bit higher, so this may also explain how we get a 40% overall acceptance rate when the school themselves show only a 5% rate.

 

[libertyyne]

You can try to make some complex mathematical formula if it makes you happy, but you can't make predictions about this process, because getting an accept is 100% on you.

this. It is not a coin toss. The probabilities vary based on applicant characteristics. 524 4.0 has a very different acceptance liklihood compared to a 2.5 490. Also the discrepancy can be explained by additive effect of applying to greater than 10 schools. Provided you meet the threshold.

 

[Goro]

In addition, some schools are "lucky" and highly favor only IS residents. So the applicant and acceptee populations are geographically skewed. So one can't simply say "Oh, I have a 24% chance of getting accepted!" It has to be looked at school by school.

this. It is not a coin toss. The probabilities vary based on applicant characteristics. 524 4.0 has a very different acceptance liklihood compared to a 2.5 490. Also the discrepancy can be explained by additive effect of applying to greater than 10 schools. Provided you meet the threshold.

 

[libertyyne]

In addition, some schools are "lucky" and highly favor only IS residents. So the applicant and acceptee populations are geographically skewed. So one can't simply say "Oh, I have a 24% chance of getting accepted!" It has to be looked at school by school.

If AMCAS released the data it would easy to build a predictive model based on scores, EC hours, and Geographic locations.

 

[libertyyne]

actually the data does not include DO Schools. If it did, the acceptance rate would be lower as DO school overall acceptance rate is about 35%. on an applicant to seat ratio, DO school is more competitive than MD school. Most MD schools have acceptance rates closet to 3%

Would you call that more competitive or just a different population. Stats wise MD schools on average are definitely are more competitive.

 

[libertyyne]

DO Schools are more competitive on an applicant to seat basis,
MD schools are more selective on an academic metrics basis

Thank you. that makes sense. Does that include number of acceptances sent out or just raw applicant to seat? I feel like DO schools have to send out more acceptances to seat their classes compared to MD schools. Also that some of the applicants and acceptees to DO schools ultimately end up matriculating at MD schools dropping out of the pool.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Probs like 10%

It might even be lower, everyone I know at college has said at some point or another that they wanted to be a surgeon and took at least physics 1

 

[ChrisMack390]

Everything you know about probability is built on a presumption of randomness. It is ridiculous to try to analyze medical school stats like that. If 100 incompetent jerks apply to medical school, it is not accurate to assume 40 will get in.

 

[kavorca]

Everything you know about probability is built on a presumption of randomness. It is ridiculous to try to analyze medical school stats like that. If 100 incompetent jerks apply to medical school, it is not accurate to assume 40 will get in.

It would probably be higher.

 

[Jarteblu]

So this means that some students apply year after year after year after year until they give up? What age is the oldest medical student that you have met?

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

So this means that some students apply year after year after year after year until they give up? What age is the oldest medical student that you have met?

I do research with a 45 year old mom who is currently sitting on three MD interviews. Sharp lady.

 

[libertyyne]

Everything you know about probability is built on a presumption of randomness. It is ridiculous to try to analyze medical school stats like that. If 100 incompetent jerks apply to medical school, it is not accurate to assume 40 will get in.

I mean in everyone's defense there is still some randomness to the process. Where ever there is a qualitative review occurring there will be some randomness based on the individual reviewer and such. Once you meet the threshold of the school within the 10-90 in GPA and MCAT and are within the school ranges this is where you the randomness will show itself. I would say it is more pronounced for schools where the median LizzyM is between 65-70. These schools get lots of applicants with scores in the range. Even for people with terrible stats it is possible something resonates with the reviewer provided there isnt an automated cutoff prior to review.

 

[ChrisMack390]

I mean in everyone's defense there is still some randomness to the process. Where ever there is a qualitative review occurring there will be some randomness based on the individual reviewer and such. Once you meet the threshold of the school within the 10-90 in GPA and MCAT and are within the school ranges this is where you the randomness will show itself. I would say it is more pronounced for schools where the median LizzyM is between 65-70. These schools get lots of applicants with scores in the range. Even for people with terrible stats it is possible something resonates with the reviewer provided there isnt an automated cutoff prior to review.

This makes it LESS random in the statistical sense.

 

[libertyyne]

This makes it LESS random in the statistical sense.

How so?