Accepted 30’s + nontrad, AMA

[LongRoad1]

Finally made it! Just wanted to put myself out there for questions since I did have a fairly successful cycle with 8 acceptances. Yes that’s excessive, more details on why that happened later.

I made a new account so that I can divulge more intimate details while remaining anonymous. But I’ve been active on SDN since the beginning of my path more than five years ago. I’m in my 30’s and have two kids under five. All you parents out there, you can do this!

Objective Stats:

1. MCAT of 503 with a 123 in CARS
2. sGPA = cGPA = ~3.55
3. A's in all online DIY post-bac coursework including:
   1. Bio I
   2. Bio II
   3. Orgo I
   4. Orgo II
   5. Biochem
   6. Anatomy (the only A-)

Subjective Stats:

1. 5+ years working in challenging STEM industry
2. B.S. and M.S. in non-biological sciences STEM major
3. 500+ volunteer hours in ER while working full-time and performing DIY coursework
4. 40+ hrs shadowing PCP’s in underserved areas
5. No family ties to medicine or healthcare in any capacity
6. Married with two kids under 5 years old
7. First-generation college graduate
8. Strong set of letters of recommendation with committee letter from undergrad university. The importance of strong LORs is often overlooked.
9. Two institutional actions during undergrad
10. Documented run-ins with law enforcement in youth.
    1. Yes, more severe than a speeding or parking ticket.
    2. No, not the rigor of felony.
    3. 5+ years since the institutional actions
    4. 10+ years since the run-ins with law enforcement

Application Cycle:

1. Submitted both AMCAS and AACOMAS primaries by mid-June
2. # schools applied to
   1. DO: All but perhaps 2 or 3 of them
      1. So, ~35 DO schools
   2. MD: Low MCAT in-state and regional schools
      1. ~10 MD schools
3. Interviews, all of which I attended
   1. MD: 2
   2. DO: 12
4. Acceptances
   1. MD: 0
   2. DO: 8
5. Waitlists
   1. I was put on 5 additional DO waitlists but withdrew from them one by one as the acceptances rolled in.

To summarize, my low MCAT, institutional actions, and run-ins with law enforcement left me with absolutely no clue how the cycle would go. So I applied to anywhere I believed I had a remote possibility of getting in. I was only able to attend all the interviews because COVID had the cycle entirely virtual. If I could go back and do it again, I wouldn’t change anything given my circumstances. But I will say that the secondary applications almost broke me…

MD schools had no love for my app, that’s clear. The interview I received was for a low MCAT in-state school. Now, had my MCAT been 512…I think the story would’ve changed. Either way, flexibility is key for my family and I would’ve chosen the school that offered the most of it in the way they deliver academics.

What I would say helped me get A’s the most is being able to show proof of answering yes to these three questions:

1. Can you handle medical school?
   1. (+) Challenging STEM degrees
   2. (+) Super busy while nailing all A's in the post-bac
   3. (-) Low subsection MCAT score
   4. --> net (+)
2. Do you want to be a doctor?
   1. (+) 500+ volunteer hrs
   2. (+) 40+ shadowing hrs
   3. (+) making a career change
   4. (+) discovered medicine on my own
   5. --> (+ + + +)
3. Who supports your argument?
   1. (+) LOR from ER volunteer coordinator
   2. (+) LOR from manager at 5+ year job
   3. (+) LOR from shadowed PCP in high-needs area
   4. (+) LOR from chair of pre-health admissions committee
   5. (+) LOR from director at another volunteering organization
   6. --> (+ + + + +)

In my opinion, everyone needs to put as many +’s on that list as they can. It’s what your entire application is reduced to. You also must be able to explain why you want to be a doctor. Deep introspection is required here and you’ll find that out if you’re offered secondaries with schools you applied to. In the end, you need to be able to explain why nothing else but medicine will do it for you. Go deep or go home because adcoms have seen it all before.

A note on SDN. I joined this place before I began taking coursework, at the very beginning. In sum, I’m so thankful for the folks that tell it like it is. They’ve seen it all before and understand how to help. But don’t expect things sugar-coated. People here just don’t have the time to be empathetic and understanding in every response they type. I didn’t understand that until now, when I’m physically in medical school. Students, residents, and attendings—they’re all shy on time but SDN people for the most part really do want to be helpful. And they are! So my advice would be to never take things personal here. Go in, say your peace, get advice with both ears open, and go do it!

If I can do it with my stats, family responsibilities, and work obligations then so can you. So, get to it! And let me know if you have any additional questions.

EDIT:
Forgot that I also took Anatomy with UNE, so I added it to the list. I took the course mid-way through my application cycle to medical school to show I was still academically capable, since there was a two year gap between then and my most recent coursework (Biochem).

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[deleted1142471]

Nothing to ask but congratulations!

 

[shezadeh]

Did you have to do labs for your DIY postbacc? Just curious how that worked (partnership with local college, etc).

Congratulations!

 

[gwrightjr90]

Congratulations!

 

[LongRoad1]

Did you have to do labs for your DIY postbacc? Just curious how that worked (partnership with local college, etc).

Congratulations!

I did yes. I used the same regionally-accredited online college for all the post-bacc work and can message you the school if you're interested. The labs were as good as a digital lab can be but certainly not a replacement for in-person labs. The college didn't discern whether the coursework was taken online or in-person on the official transcripts, which was kind of a selling point for me. Whether the coursework was taken in-person or on-line never came up in any of my interviews. That could be because COVID sent all schools virtual with terrible infrastructure to handle it, or because they preferred 'don't ask don't tell'. Who knows!

 

[2ndlifedoc]

Well done!! I have quite a few questions if that's OK. 1. Was the Postbacc from a community college or 4 Year? 2. Were your other prereqs done in undergrad? 3. Was the Bio II you took just Bio II or was it a specific subsection (I've seen some schools open up quite a bit with the second)? 4. Do you mind detailing how this process more or less went over 5 years (i.e. work all 5, 3 years courses, 6 months mcat etc.)?

 

[LongRoad1]

Well done!! I have quite a few questions if that's OK. 1. Was the Postbacc from a community college or 4 Year? 2. Were your other prereqs done in undergrad? 3. Was the Bio II you took just Bio II or was it a specific subsection (I've seen some schools open up quite a bit with the second)? 4. Do you mind detailing how this process more or less went over 5 years (i.e. work all 5, 3 years courses, 6 months mcat etc.)?

1. Was the Postbacc from a community college or 4 Year?
   1. It was from the University of New England
2. Were your other prereqs done in undergrad?
   1. Yes. I completed Phys I-II, Chem I-II ten years ago as a consequence of my STEM major. These courses being ten years old never came up as an issue.
3. Was the Bio II you took just Bio II or was it a specific subsection (I've seen some schools open up quite a bit with the second)?
   1. BIOL 1011. I remember being a bit disappointed with how little organ systems biology content there was.
4. 4. Do you mind detailing how this process more or less went over 5 years (i.e. work all 5, 3 years courses, 6 months mcat etc.)?
   1. I took the slow and steady approach. Before even beginning any post-bac pre-req's, I needed to be sure the idea of medical school wasn't just a fling. Having no contacts in medicine led me to calling every local organization to see if I could shadow a doc. Eventually I received the yes at a local ER. Shadowed a doc there one night and had an amazing experience. Everything clicked right then and I enrolled in my first online course before turning in for the night.
   2. My education and training was very heavy on theoretical concepts and light on rote memorization. I knew medical school was just about a 180 from this, so I wasn't too sure if I had the chops for it. This led me to taking one course at a time while working full-time. I also wanted to dip my toe in first, so I began with the Biology sequence as oppose to jumping into organic chemistry. I really enjoyed Bio I and made the A, so then I took Bio II. Made another A. Then another, etc. I'm not some genius by the way. Good time management, long nights and weekends, and no spouse or children during the coursework period in my path.
   3. I also volunteered at the ER where I shadowed the doc during these courses. Initially it was just to check the volunteering box but as the years ticked by, I found the ER to be where I felt most myself. I had to keep all this med school journey work completely secret and unknown to my M-F 9-5 job. I actually had to dodge a few patients that came in because I knew them from work. You may not know it but your boss is always thinking about who would fill the hole you leave if you stop showing up to work. I didn't come from money and needed the job, so secrecy was my best option. Anyway, I learned so much at the ER and met so many great people there. I realized during my time there that I enjoy working with people as a part of my job and that I love helping the patients, even in the nearly insignificant way a volunteer often can.
   4. So, it took me about 2 years of the full-time job + 1 course at a time + 6 hrs/week at the ER before I completed my coursework. It took two years because I tried to walk away from the idea of medicine at least once during that time. Cut out the coursework, the volunteering. Took cross-country road trips. Went out on the weekends. The whole bit. But it just didn't work for me. I was utterly bored and felt like my brain was wasting away. That's not a knock at anyone who decides not to pursue medicine. I just found that I was personally less happy with tons of free time and money then when I was taking vitals in the ER.
   5. After the coursework was completed I was knee deep in a relationship and quickly found myself married with kiddo #1 on the way. I knew from the beginning that there was no rush and that this is a long game. So I lived life for a few years. Schlepped to/from work every day to pay the bills. Did flashcards to keep up with learned content / study for the MCAT.
   6. When the time came for the MCAT, I stretched studying out forever. Big mistake. In hindsight, I should've done the 3 months 40hrs/wk dedicated study. But that's hard when your spouse is a fulltime student, COVID hits, you need the health insurance from your job, and there's a baby in the picture. Did the best I could during that time and scored pretty low on the MCAT.

Hope that helps!

 

[skeptastic]

You're awesome! Congratulations! As a fellow non-trad in the current app cycle who had a major turnaround, I applaud and understand your effort in getting to this point. Keep fighting the good fight, and I hope to see you on the other side of this app process haha.

 

[Teedoe]

I did yes. I used the same regionally-accredited online college for all the post-bacc work and can message you the school if you're interested. The labs were as good as a digital lab can be but certainly not a replacement for in-person labs. The college didn't discern whether the coursework was taken online or in-person on the official transcripts, which was kind of a selling point for me. Whether the coursework was taken in-person or on-line never came up in any of my interviews. That could be because COVID sent all schools virtual with terrible infrastructure to handle it, or because they preferred 'don't ask don't tell'. Who knows!

Huge congratulations to you! This is inspiring. Can you send me the info in the online college that allowed online labs?

 

[Leo88]

Wow. Congrats! This is probably the most inspiring non-trad story I’ve heard. I only have one question: how old were you when this process started and how old are you now? You said you are in your 30s now, but there is a huge different between starting the process in late 20s vs mid 30s, and getting accepted at 31 vs 39. Feel free to PM me this if you don’t want so share it openly. Congrats again, future doctor!

 

[ridebiker]

Your story is so inspiring! I relate a lot to your situation (working a 9-5 that I am keeping this all a secret from) and not having any contacts or family in medicine. I'm glad to hear that doing one class at a time worked for you and did not prevent you from getting many acceptances. Sometimes I worry I am not doing enough, but with 40 hours a week of work, a 4 credit in person class, and 10 hours a week of volunteering, I don't know how I could possibly do more.

Do you have any advice about how to go about cold emailing/calling to find shadowing opportunities? I am finding that to be the toughest part of all of this. Did you send your resume and just like a statement of interest of some sort?
I have a volunteer position at a free clinic, but I haven't been able to find any shadowing opportunities, despite e-mailing and calling several places. Plus, with work it's hard to find opportunities that are outside of the standard 9-5.

 

[LadyDustyBlue]

Finally made it! Just wanted to put myself out there for questions since I did have a fairly successful cycle with 8 acceptances. Yes that’s excessive, more details on why that happened later.

I made a new account so that I can divulge more intimate details while remaining anonymous. But I’ve been active on SDN since the beginning of my path more than five years ago. I’m in my 30’s and have two kids under five. All you parents out there, you can do this!

Objective Stats:

1. MCAT of 503 with a 123 in CARS
2. sGPA = cGPA = ~3.55
3. 4.0 in all online DIY post-bac coursework including:
   1. Bio I
   2. Bio II
   3. Orgo I
   4. Orgo II
   5. Biochem

Subjective Stats:

1. 5+ years working in challenging STEM industry
2. B.S. and M.S. in non-biological sciences STEM major
3. 500+ volunteer hours in ER while working full-time and performing DIY coursework
4. 40+ hrs shadowing PCP’s in underserved areas
5. No family ties to medicine or healthcare in any capacity
6. Married with two kids under 5 years old
7. First-generation college graduate
8. Strong set of letters of recommendation with committee letter from undergrad university. The importance of strong LORs is often overlooked.
9. Two institutional actions during undergrad
10. Documented run-ins with law enforcement in youth.
    1. Yes, more severe than a speeding or parking ticket.
    2. No, not the rigor of felony.
    3. 5+ years since the institutional actions
    4. 10+ years since the run-ins with law enforcement

Application Cycle:

1. Submitted both AMCAS and AACOMAS primaries by mid-June
2. # schools applied to
   1. DO: All but perhaps 2 or 3 of them
      1. So, ~35 DO schools
   2. MD: Low MCAT in-state and regional schools
      1. ~10 MD schools
3. Interviews, all of which I attended
   1. MD: 2
   2. DO: 12
4. Acceptances
   1. MD: 0
   2. DO: 8
5. Waitlists
   1. I was put on 5 additional DO waitlists but withdrew from them one by one as the acceptances rolled in.

To summarize, my low MCAT, institutional actions, and run-ins with law enforcement left me with absolutely no clue how the cycle would go. So I applied to anywhere I believed I had a remote possibility of getting in. I was only able to attend all the interviews because COVID had the cycle entirely virtual. If I could go back and do it again, I wouldn’t change anything given my circumstances. But I will say that the secondary applications almost broke me…

MD schools had no love for my app, that’s clear. The interview I received was for a low MCAT in-state school. Now, had my MCAT been 512…I think the story would’ve changed. Either way, flexibility is key for my family and I would’ve chosen the school that offered the most of it in the way they deliver academics.

What I would say helped me get A’s the most is being able to show proof of answering yes to these three questions:

1. Can you handle medical school?
   1. (+) Challenging STEM degrees
   2. (+) Super busy while nailing a 4.0 post-bac
   3. (-) Low subsection MCAT score
   4. --> net (+)
2. Do you want to be a doctor?
   1. (+) 500+ volunteer hrs
   2. (+) 40+ shadowing hrs
   3. (+) making a career change
   4. (+) discovered medicine on my own
   5. --> (+ + + +)
3. Who supports your argument?
   1. (+) LOR from ER volunteer coordinator
   2. (+) LOR from manager at 5+ year job
   3. (+) LOR from shadowed PCP in high-needs area
   4. (+) LOR from chair of pre-health admissions committee
   5. (+) LOR from director at another volunteering organization
   6. --> (+ + + + +)

In my opinion, everyone needs to put as many +’s on that list as they can. It’s what your entire application is reduced to. You also must be able to explain why you want to be a doctor. Deep introspection is required here and you’ll find that out if you’re offered secondaries with schools you applied to. In the end, you need to be able to explain why nothing else but medicine will do it for you. Go deep or go home because adcoms have seen it all before.

A note on SDN. I joined this place before I began taking coursework, at the very beginning. In sum, I’m so thankful for the folks that tell it like it is. They’ve seen it all before and understand how to help. But don’t expect things sugar-coated. People here just don’t have the time to be empathetic and understanding in every response they type. I didn’t understand that until now, when I’m physically in medical school. Students, residents, and attendings—they’re all shy on time but SDN people for the most part really do want to be helpful. And they are! So my advice would be to never take things personal here. Go in, say your peace, get advice with both ears open, and go do it!

If I can do it with my stats, family responsibilities, and work obligations then so can you. So, get to it! And let me know if you have any additional questions.

Thank you for sharing! This past week I had probably 1st real “am I really serious about pre-med even though I’m incredibly non-trad?” moments that I’ve ever had. I had 1 last year before I transferred to a university from CC, but this time felt like an outer-body experience. I think it’s just hard when you’re surrounded by people who aren’t doing what your doing.

That’s amazing that you got through the pandemic with your family, preparing for the MCAT, and applying.

Congratulations, well-done!

 

[JustintheDoctor]

1. Was the Postbacc from a community college or 4 Year?
   1. It was from the University of New England
2. Were your other prereqs done in undergrad?
   1. Yes. I completed Phys I-II, Chem I-II ten years ago as a consequence of my STEM major. These courses being ten years old never came up as an issue.
3. Was the Bio II you took just Bio II or was it a specific subsection (I've seen some schools open up quite a bit with the second)?
   1. BIOL 1011. I remember being a bit disappointed with how little organ systems biology content there was.
4. 4. Do you mind detailing how this process more or less went over 5 years (i.e. work all 5, 3 years courses, 6 months mcat etc.)?
   1. I took the slow and steady approach. Before even beginning any post-bac pre-req's, I needed to be sure the idea of medical school wasn't just a fling. Having no contacts in medicine led me to calling every local organization to see if I could shadow a doc. Eventually I received the yes at a local ER. Shadowed a doc there one night and had an amazing experience. Everything clicked right then and I enrolled in my first online course before turning in for the night.
   2. My education and training was very heavy on theoretical concepts and light on rote memorization. I knew medical school was just about a 180 from this, so I wasn't too sure if I had the chops for it. This led me to taking one course at a time while working full-time. I also wanted to dip my toe in first, so I began with the Biology sequence as oppose to jumping into organic chemistry. I really enjoyed Bio I and made the A, so then I took Bio II. Made another A. Then another, etc. I'm not some genius by the way. Good time management, long nights and weekends, and no spouse or children during the coursework period in my path.
   3. I also volunteered at the ER where I shadowed the doc during these courses. Initially it was just to check the volunteering box but as the years ticked by, I found the ER to be where I felt most myself. I had to keep all this med school journey work completely secret and unknown to my M-F 9-5 job. I actually had to dodge a few patients that came in because I knew them from work. You may not know it but your boss is always thinking about who would fill the hole you leave if you stop showing up to work. I didn't come from money and needed the job, so secrecy was my best option. Anyway, I learned so much at the ER and met so many great people there. I realized during my time there that I enjoy working with people as a part of my job and that I love helping the patients, even in the nearly insignificant way a volunteer often can.
   4. So, it took me about 2 years of the full-time job + 1 course at a time + 6 hrs/week at the ER before I completed my coursework. It took two years because I tried to walk away from the idea of medicine at least once during that time. Cut out the coursework, the volunteering. Took cross-country road trips. Went out on the weekends. The whole bit. But it just didn't work for me. I was utterly bored and felt like my brain was wasting away. That's not a knock at anyone who decides not to pursue medicine. I just found that I was personally less happy with tons of free time and money then when I was taking vitals in the ER.
   5. After the coursework was completed I was knee deep in a relationship and quickly found myself married with kiddo #1 on the way. I knew from the beginning that there was no rush and that this is a long game. So I lived life for a few years. Schlepped to/from work every day to pay the bills. Did flashcards to keep up with learned content / study for the MCAT.
   6. When the time came for the MCAT, I stretched studying out forever. Big mistake. In hindsight, I should've done the 3 months 40hrs/wk dedicated study. But that's hard when your spouse is a fulltime student, COVID hits, you need the health insurance from your job, and there's a baby in the picture. Did the best I could during that time and scored pretty low on the MCAT.

Hope that helps!

I will be starting UNE's post bacc soon. Gonna skip the Bios since i did them like 6 years ago and will just refresh with Kaplan/KA, but how was your experience with the chemistry classes?

 

[LongRoad1]

Wow. Congrats! This is probably the most inspiring non-trad story I’ve heard. I only have one question: how old were you when this process started and how old are you now? You said you are in your 30s now, but there is a huge different between starting the process in late 20s vs mid 30s, and getting accepted at 31 vs 39. Feel free to PM me this if you don’t want so share it openly. Congrats again, future doctor!

No big, I started the process at 27 and am now a MS1 at 32. There are differences between beginning medical school at 31 vs. 39 but I think it has more to do with the choices you've made and what your priorities are. I have peers that are 22 with a toddler and another on the way. I also have peers who are unmarried with no kids and in their later 30's early 40's. The biggest delineator is the support they have outside of school. If your family and friends are 100% onboard then most of your obstacles fall away. Remove that external support and just about everything crumbles.

Now that's my perspective as a parent, which is pretty singular. If you are the primary support for your parents or a sibling, are trying to put in hours at a job outside of school, etc.--I can't really speak to those pressures. I'd just say that you need to be able to consistently put 60-70 hrs/wk towards medical school in years 1-2 or you're at risk of failing a course.

 

[LongRoad1]

Your story is so inspiring! I relate a lot to your situation (working a 9-5 that I am keeping this all a secret from) and not having any contacts or family in medicine. I'm glad to hear that doing one class at a time worked for you and did not prevent you from getting many acceptances. Sometimes I worry I am not doing enough, but with 40 hours a week of work, a 4 credit in person class, and 10 hours a week of volunteering, I don't know how I could possibly do more.

Do you have any advice about how to go about cold emailing/calling to find shadowing opportunities? I am finding that to be the toughest part of all of this. Did you send your resume and just like a statement of interest of some sort?
I have a volunteer position at a free clinic, but I haven't been able to find any shadowing opportunities, despite e-mailing and calling several places. Plus, with work it's hard to find opportunities that are outside of the standard 9-5.

Q: Do you have any advice about how to go about cold emailing/calling to find shadowing opportunities? I am finding that to be the toughest part of all of this. Did you send your resume and just like a statement of interest of some sort?

#1, absolutely find the phone numbers and call instead of emailing. It's so easy for someone to coldly respond via email, so I only emailed if I couldn't find a phone number. Most all hospitals have a formalized process for becoming a volunteer that involves filling out a long online form and submitting to their electronic system. While you definitely need to do that, find the number for the person most likely to be coordinating volunteering activities and call call call until you find that person.

#2 after calling and submitting to their online forms, cold email the person that's closest to the individual likely to be coordinating volunteer activities. I know you're looking for shadowing opportunities instead of volunteering ones, but the processes are identical. And often times, it's the volunteer coordinator that has the master list of doc's that let people shadow them.

#3 I'm also pretty sure you'll need to submit vaccination records, sign consent forms, etc. simply in order to shadow a doc. This is so the hospital can treat you if you fall over, or not be sued by you if a drugged up patient whacks you. You'll send those forms during the process of becoming a volunteer, so you may as well jump on the volunteer path to begin with. If I were the hospital employee, it would be a much less labor intensive task for me to allocate someone to a doc for shadowing if we already had all their forms and boxes checked within the system because they're a volunteer (even if they haven't done one hour of work for us). Know what I mean?

#4 You mentioned you're at a free clinic right now. Definitely ask any docs there if they'd mind you shadowing them.

#5 Next and easiest line of shadowing is to ask your PCP. I did this, twice, and it was an immediate yes each time. I'd be very very surprised if your personal doc wouldn't let you shadow them. This will likely also lead to a letter of recommendation, which is one of the primary purposes for shadowing in the first place.

Lastly, I was also a bit screwed by the 9-5 workweek. I found the ER to be the most accommodating place for such a schedule. ER's are almost always open 24/7 and I'm willing to bet that once you develop good rapport there, they will let you come in and help out at any hour of the day. My normal bit was 6p-9p on a weekday, but more than once I popped in from 11p-2a just to see the lay of the late night land.

 

[LongRoad1]

I will be starting UNE's post bacc soon. Gonna skip the Bios since i did them like 6 years ago and will just refresh with Kaplan/KA, but how was your experience with the chemistry classes?

Nice, I only did the ochem sequence + biochem. Ochem was tough for me personally but I don't recall feeling like the university did a bad job with the course itself. Biochem was tougher than the ochems but again I didn't feel it was a course design / delivery issue.

Also, I didn't tell the whole truth in my initial post. Completely forgot to include that I took Anatomy with UNE. Did it in the middle of my application cycle to med school to show that I was still academically active. Now THAT was a poorly designed course by UNE...I could go on and on about it but the short story is that it was the most lazy course design I've ever experienced. That being said, I would take it again because I learned a TON and contrary to what others may say, it definitely helped me for medical school level anatomy. That may not be true with all anatomy classes, but it is true for the one I took with UNE.

 

[katatonic88]

@LongRoad1 Did you get any push-back from schools due to all your pre-reqs being taken online? I'm intrigued about UNE because I'm re-taking all my pre-reqs that are super old. Or did you curate which schools you applied to so that they accepted online pre-reqs?

 

[Rside]

Did you have any clinical hours?

 

[LongRoad1]

@LongRoad1 Did you get any push-back from schools due to all your pre-reqs being taken online? I'm intrigued about UNE because I'm re-taking all my pre-reqs that are super old. Or did you curate which schools you applied to so that they accepted online pre-reqs?

The research that I did ~5 years ago led me to believe that maybe 50% of schools would blacklist me for taking 3+ core classes online. But, UNE does NOT indicate on your transcript that the course was taken online. I had an official copy sent to me and there was nothing that would make you believe any courses were taken online. You'd have to know that UNE has said courses available as an online option. So that was the first piece.

Second, I was very lucky that COVID occurred because online coursework became the status quo for everyone, at least for a few courses during the height of the pandemic. I believe this translated to much more laxity in admissions committees accepting online coursework. Again, UNE coursework was not shown as 'online', so I don't truly know if that mattered for me.

Third, whether or not my coursework was taken online actually never came up during a single interview. The only time it was brought up was by myself, voluntarily. I brought it up because you more or less have to sign a form at your accepted schools that says its up to you to be truthful about all your coursework and if it's ever discovered that you weren't that your acceptance could be yanked instantly. That was a bit much for me, so I ended up asking directly one of the schools I was accepted at whether they would accept all of my coursework, as some of it was taken online and their website was ambiguous as to whether or not online coursework was acceptable. The admissions person at that school kind of laughed on the phone and said they already knew what the answer was, but that they'd kick the question higher up in the admissions chain. I received a formal email later that day that all of my coursework was fine.

Moral of the story, I'm willing to bet there are in fact schools that will blacklist you for taking some of your courses online, that is if they know you took them online. So, check the prerequisites page of every single school you're interested in applying to before going down the online path. If it isn't clear there, call them and they will have an answer for you. For me, I knew from day one that online was my only path to medical school because I was never willing to quit my 9-5 M-F job. The landscape may not be the same today as it was applying earlier in the pandemic. Do your due diligence for sure.

Also, how 'old' are your pre-req's? Some of mine were 10+ years old at the time of application but this never came up once.

 

[LongRoad1]

Did you have any clinical hours?

I had 500+ hours in an ER and 40 or so hours shadowing PCPs at community health centers. 500 volunteer hours is indeed excessive, but everyone needs something on their application to separate them from the masses. This was one of mine.

 

[katatonic88]

The research that I did ~5 years ago led me to believe that maybe 50% of schools would blacklist me for taking 3+ core classes online. But, UNE does NOT indicate on your transcript that the course was taken online. I had an official copy sent to me and there was nothing that would make you believe any courses were taken online. You'd have to know that UNE has said courses available as an online option. So that was the first piece.

Second, I was very lucky that COVID occurred because online coursework became the status quo for everyone, at least for a few courses during the height of the pandemic. I believe this translated to much more laxity in admissions committees accepting online coursework. Again, UNE coursework was not shown as 'online', so I don't truly know if that mattered for me.

Third, whether or not my coursework was taken online actually never came up during a single interview. The only time it was brought up was by myself, voluntarily. I brought it up because you more or less have to sign a form at your accepted schools that says its up to you to be truthful about all your coursework and if it's ever discovered that you weren't that your acceptance could be yanked instantly. That was a bit much for me, so I ended up asking directly one of the schools I was accepted at whether they would accept all of my coursework, as some of it was taken online and their website was ambiguous as to whether or not online coursework was acceptable. The admissions person at that school kind of laughed on the phone and said they already knew what the answer was, but that they'd kick the question higher up in the admissions chain. I received a formal email later that day that all of my coursework was fine.

Moral of the story, I'm willing to bet there are in fact schools that will blacklist you for taking some of your courses online, that is if they know you took them online. So, check the prerequisites page of every single school you're interested in applying to before going down the online path. If it isn't clear there, call them and they will have an answer for you. For me, I knew from day one that online was my only path to medical school because I was never willing to quit my 9-5 M-F job. The landscape may not be the same today as it was applying earlier in the pandemic. Do your due diligence for sure.

Also, how 'old' are your pre-req's? Some of mine were 10+ years old at the time of application but this never came up once.

Thank you! My pre-reqs from university were taken between 2006-2010 so they're all over 12 years old. I'm in the same boat where I can't quit my 9-5 M-F job, but the local college has absolutely no night classes or those "1 day a week, all day long" class types. Things that just don't mesh with the non-trad working life haha.

*Edit: I'm maybe overthinking this since I have already taken all the pre-reqs in person at a 4-year university, it's just that they were so long ago I need/want to retake them to show that I can still academically perform. I'm hoping that info in combination with working full-time and having a solid MCAT will make the online component not matter as much.

 

[ridebiker]

Q: Do you have any advice about how to go about cold emailing/calling to find shadowing opportunities? I am finding that to be the toughest part of all of this. Did you send your resume and just like a statement of interest of some sort?

#1, absolutely find the phone numbers and call instead of emailing. It's so easy for someone to coldly respond via email, so I only emailed if I couldn't find a phone number. Most all hospitals have a formalized process for becoming a volunteer that involves filling out a long online form and submitting to their electronic system. While you definitely need to do that, find the number for the person most likely to be coordinating volunteering activities and call call call until you find that person.

#2 after calling and submitting to their online forms, cold email the person that's closest to the individual likely to be coordinating volunteer activities. I know you're looking for shadowing opportunities instead of volunteering ones, but the processes are identical. And often times, it's the volunteer coordinator that has the master list of doc's that let people shadow them.

#3 I'm also pretty sure you'll need to submit vaccination records, sign consent forms, etc. simply in order to shadow a doc. This is so the hospital can treat you if you fall over, or not be sued by you if a drugged up patient whacks you. You'll send those forms during the process of becoming a volunteer, so you may as well jump on the volunteer path to begin with. If I were the hospital employee, it would be a much less labor intensive task for me to allocate someone to a doc for shadowing if we already had all their forms and boxes checked within the system because they're a volunteer (even if they haven't done one hour of work for us). Know what I mean?

#4 You mentioned you're at a free clinic right now. Definitely ask any docs there if they'd mind you shadowing them.

#5 Next and easiest line of shadowing is to ask your PCP. I did this, twice, and it was an immediate yes each time. I'd be very very surprised if your personal doc wouldn't let you shadow them. This will likely also lead to a letter of recommendation, which is one of the primary purposes for shadowing in the first place.

Lastly, I was also a bit screwed by the 9-5 workweek. I found the ER to be the most accommodating place for such a schedule. ER's are almost always open 24/7 and I'm willing to bet that once you develop good rapport there, they will let you come in and help out at any hour of the day. My normal bit was 6p-9p on a weekday, but more than once I popped in from 11p-2a just to see the lay of the late night land.

Thank you so much for your advice! I really need to get more comfortable making phone calls and putting myself out there.

Unfortunately I don't really have a PCP, but I have maybe one doctor I could see letting me shadow.

I like the idea of the ER, I've been trying to get in to volunteer at an ER here but in my city it seems like volunteer opportunities are nearly impossible to get in the hospital...I've been on a waiting list for several for over 6 months. Hopefully I can get into something soon!

 

[LongRoad1]

Thank you! My pre-reqs from university were taken between 2006-2010 so they're all over 12 years old. I'm in the same boat where I can't quit my 9-5 M-F job, but the local college has absolutely no night classes or those "1 day a week, all day long" class types. Things that just don't mesh with the non-trad working life haha.

*Edit: I'm maybe overthinking this since I have already taken all the pre-reqs in person at a 4-year university, it's just that they were so long ago I need/want to retake them to show that I can still academically perform. I'm hoping that info in combination with working full-time and having a solid MCAT will make the online component not matter as much.

Some medical schools are moving away from the idea of pre-req's entirely and substituting this old requirement with 'competency-based' philosophy. Instead, the MCAT is their litmus test. My personal opinion is that if you can hit 85th+ percentile on the MCAT, your outdated coursework is an utterly moot point. I say that because last I knew, the best (or only statistically significant) predictor of high Step 1 board scores was a high MCAT score. Step 1 has since gone pass/fail, but you get the idea. A high MCAT has been shown to predict success in the scores that matter to medical schools: boards.

I honestly think the biggest bang for your buck is one of the formalized, money-back guarantee comprehensive MCAT review courses offered through the big name test companies. Their guarantee is that if you follow their program, you will score above some threshold, 510 for example. While the course may cost > 2-3k, think about the tuition you'd save by not re-taking old coursework.

Do your due diligence though on the schools that might still require re-taking coursework. I just have a hard time believing a school would require you to re-take something if your MCAT score is on or above par.

 

[I'mJustCurious]

Hey congrats! Just curious, do you read over people's personal statement?

 

[katatonic88]

Some medical schools are moving away from the idea of pre-req's entirely and substituting this old requirement with 'competency-based' philosophy. Instead, the MCAT is their litmus test. My personal opinion is that if you can hit 85th+ percentile on the MCAT, your outdated coursework is an utterly moot point. I say that because last I knew, the best (or only statistically significant) predictor of high Step 1 board scores was a high MCAT score. Step 1 has since gone pass/fail, but you get the idea. A high MCAT has been shown to predict success in the scores that matter to medical schools: boards.

I honestly think the biggest bang for your buck is one of the formalized, money-back guarantee comprehensive MCAT review courses offered through the big name test companies. Their guarantee is that if you follow their program, you will score above some threshold, 510 for example. While the course may cost > 2-3k, think about the tuition you'd save by not re-taking old coursework.

Do your due diligence though on the schools that might still require re-taking coursework. I just have a hard time believing a school would require you to re-take something if your MCAT score is on or above par.

Thanks, after emailing some of the school's I'm interested in I'm kind of shifting to this mindset. One said they use the AAMC competency approach and don't have required coursework, but that there's no expiration on any pre-reqs so mine would be totally fine. I took the MCAT in 2020 and got a 512 after not taking any of those classes for a decade, so I bet with a comprehensive review course if I take it again I can target a 520+. That would save a ton of money, plus free up more time for getting more clinical experience.

 

[SWR1913]

Finally made it! Just wanted to put myself out there for questions since I did have a fairly successful cycle with 8 acceptances. Yes that’s excessive, more details on why that happened later.

I made a new account so that I can divulge more intimate details while remaining anonymous. But I’ve been active on SDN since the beginning of my path more than five years ago. I’m in my 30’s and have two kids under five. All you parents out there, you can do this!

Objective Stats:

1. MCAT of 503 with a 123 in CARS
2. sGPA = cGPA = ~3.55
3. A's in all online DIY post-bac coursework including:
   1. Bio I
   2. Bio II
   3. Orgo I
   4. Orgo II
   5. Biochem
   6. Anatomy (the only A-)

Subjective Stats:

1. 5+ years working in challenging STEM industry
2. B.S. and M.S. in non-biological sciences STEM major
3. 500+ volunteer hours in ER while working full-time and performing DIY coursework
4. 40+ hrs shadowing PCP’s in underserved areas
5. No family ties to medicine or healthcare in any capacity
6. Married with two kids under 5 years old
7. First-generation college graduate
8. Strong set of letters of recommendation with committee letter from undergrad university. The importance of strong LORs is often overlooked.
9. Two institutional actions during undergrad
10. Documented run-ins with law enforcement in youth.
    1. Yes, more severe than a speeding or parking ticket.
    2. No, not the rigor of felony.
    3. 5+ years since the institutional actions
    4. 10+ years since the run-ins with law enforcement

Application Cycle:

1. Submitted both AMCAS and AACOMAS primaries by mid-June
2. # schools applied to
   1. DO: All but perhaps 2 or 3 of them
      1. So, ~35 DO schools
   2. MD: Low MCAT in-state and regional schools
      1. ~10 MD schools
3. Interviews, all of which I attended
   1. MD: 2
   2. DO: 12
4. Acceptances
   1. MD: 0
   2. DO: 8
5. Waitlists
   1. I was put on 5 additional DO waitlists but withdrew from them one by one as the acceptances rolled in.

To summarize, my low MCAT, institutional actions, and run-ins with law enforcement left me with absolutely no clue how the cycle would go. So I applied to anywhere I believed I had a remote possibility of getting in. I was only able to attend all the interviews because COVID had the cycle entirely virtual. If I could go back and do it again, I wouldn’t change anything given my circumstances. But I will say that the secondary applications almost broke me…

MD schools had no love for my app, that’s clear. The interview I received was for a low MCAT in-state school. Now, had my MCAT been 512…I think the story would’ve changed. Either way, flexibility is key for my family and I would’ve chosen the school that offered the most of it in the way they deliver academics.

What I would say helped me get A’s the most is being able to show proof of answering yes to these three questions:

1. Can you handle medical school?
   1. (+) Challenging STEM degrees
   2. (+) Super busy while nailing all A's in the post-bac
   3. (-) Low subsection MCAT score
   4. --> net (+)
2. Do you want to be a doctor?
   1. (+) 500+ volunteer hrs
   2. (+) 40+ shadowing hrs
   3. (+) making a career change
   4. (+) discovered medicine on my own
   5. --> (+ + + +)
3. Who supports your argument?
   1. (+) LOR from ER volunteer coordinator
   2. (+) LOR from manager at 5+ year job
   3. (+) LOR from shadowed PCP in high-needs area
   4. (+) LOR from chair of pre-health admissions committee
   5. (+) LOR from director at another volunteering organization
   6. --> (+ + + + +)

In my opinion, everyone needs to put as many +’s on that list as they can. It’s what your entire application is reduced to. You also must be able to explain why you want to be a doctor. Deep introspection is required here and you’ll find that out if you’re offered secondaries with schools you applied to. In the end, you need to be able to explain why nothing else but medicine will do it for you. Go deep or go home because adcoms have seen it all before.

A note on SDN. I joined this place before I began taking coursework, at the very beginning. In sum, I’m so thankful for the folks that tell it like it is. They’ve seen it all before and understand how to help. But don’t expect things sugar-coated. People here just don’t have the time to be empathetic and understanding in every response they type. I didn’t understand that until now, when I’m physically in medical school. Students, residents, and attendings—they’re all shy on time but SDN people for the most part really do want to be helpful. And they are! So my advice would be to never take things personal here. Go in, say your peace, get advice with both ears open, and go do it!

If I can do it with my stats, family responsibilities, and work obligations then so can you. So, get to it! And let me know if you have any additional questions.

EDIT:
Forgot that I also took Anatomy with UNE, so I added it to the list. I took the course mid-way through my application cycle to medical school to show I was still academically capable, since there was a two year gap between then and my most recent coursework (Biochem).

What a testimony!!! Congratulations!

 

[Bribri123]

Finally made it! Just wanted to put myself out there for questions since I did have a fairly successful cycle with 8 acceptances. Yes that’s excessive, more details on why that happened later.

I made a new account so that I can divulge more intimate details while remaining anonymous. But I’ve been active on SDN since the beginning of my path more than five years ago. I’m in my 30’s and have two kids under five. All you parents out there, you can do this!

Objective Stats:

1. MCAT of 503 with a 123 in CARS
2. sGPA = cGPA = ~3.55
3. A's in all online DIY post-bac coursework including:
   1. Bio I
   2. Bio II
   3. Orgo I
   4. Orgo II
   5. Biochem
   6. Anatomy (the only A-)

Subjective Stats:

1. 5+ years working in challenging STEM industry
2. B.S. and M.S. in non-biological sciences STEM major
3. 500+ volunteer hours in ER while working full-time and performing DIY coursework
4. 40+ hrs shadowing PCP’s in underserved areas
5. No family ties to medicine or healthcare in any capacity
6. Married with two kids under 5 years old
7. First-generation college graduate
8. Strong set of letters of recommendation with committee letter from undergrad university. The importance of strong LORs is often overlooked.
9. Two institutional actions during undergrad
10. Documented run-ins with law enforcement in youth.
    1. Yes, more severe than a speeding or parking ticket.
    2. No, not the rigor of felony.
    3. 5+ years since the institutional actions
    4. 10+ years since the run-ins with law enforcement

Application Cycle:

1. Submitted both AMCAS and AACOMAS primaries by mid-June
2. # schools applied to
   1. DO: All but perhaps 2 or 3 of them
      1. So, ~35 DO schools
   2. MD: Low MCAT in-state and regional schools
      1. ~10 MD schools
3. Interviews, all of which I attended
   1. MD: 2
   2. DO: 12
4. Acceptances
   1. MD: 0
   2. DO: 8
5. Waitlists
   1. I was put on 5 additional DO waitlists but withdrew from them one by one as the acceptances rolled in.

To summarize, my low MCAT, institutional actions, and run-ins with law enforcement left me with absolutely no clue how the cycle would go. So I applied to anywhere I believed I had a remote possibility of getting in. I was only able to attend all the interviews because COVID had the cycle entirely virtual. If I could go back and do it again, I wouldn’t change anything given my circumstances. But I will say that the secondary applications almost broke me…

MD schools had no love for my app, that’s clear. The interview I received was for a low MCAT in-state school. Now, had my MCAT been 512…I think the story would’ve changed. Either way, flexibility is key for my family and I would’ve chosen the school that offered the most of it in the way they deliver academics.

What I would say helped me get A’s the most is being able to show proof of answering yes to these three questions:

1. Can you handle medical school?
   1. (+) Challenging STEM degrees
   2. (+) Super busy while nailing all A's in the post-bac
   3. (-) Low subsection MCAT score
   4. --> net (+)
2. Do you want to be a doctor?
   1. (+) 500+ volunteer hrs
   2. (+) 40+ shadowing hrs
   3. (+) making a career change
   4. (+) discovered medicine on my own
   5. --> (+ + + +)
3. Who supports your argument?
   1. (+) LOR from ER volunteer coordinator
   2. (+) LOR from manager at 5+ year job
   3. (+) LOR from shadowed PCP in high-needs area
   4. (+) LOR from chair of pre-health admissions committee
   5. (+) LOR from director at another volunteering organization
   6. --> (+ + + + +)

In my opinion, everyone needs to put as many +’s on that list as they can. It’s what your entire application is reduced to. You also must be able to explain why you want to be a doctor. Deep introspection is required here and you’ll find that out if you’re offered secondaries with schools you applied to. In the end, you need to be able to explain why nothing else but medicine will do it for you. Go deep or go home because adcoms have seen it all before.

A note on SDN. I joined this place before I began taking coursework, at the very beginning. In sum, I’m so thankful for the folks that tell it like it is. They’ve seen it all before and understand how to help. But don’t expect things sugar-coated. People here just don’t have the time to be empathetic and understanding in every response they type. I didn’t understand that until now, when I’m physically in medical school. Students, residents, and attendings—they’re all shy on time but SDN people for the most part really do want to be helpful. And they are! So my advice would be to never take things personal here. Go in, say your peace, get advice with both ears open, and go do it!

If I can do it with my stats, family responsibilities, and work obligations then so can you. So, get to it! And let me know if you have any additional questions.

EDIT:
Forgot that I also took Anatomy with UNE, so I added it to the list. I took the course mid-way through my application cycle to medical school to show I was still academically capable, since there was a two year gap between then and my most recent coursework (Biochem).

How long did it take you to get all your prereqs done at UNE ? How did you balance working 9-5 full time and study and do all the shadowing and volunteer ?

 

[Unskilled Enzyme]

Finally made it! Just wanted to put myself out there for questions since I did have a fairly successful cycle with 8 acceptances. Yes that’s excessive, more details on why that happened later.

I made a new account so that I can divulge more intimate details while remaining anonymous. But I’ve been active on SDN since the beginning of my path more than five years ago. I’m in my 30’s and have two kids under five. All you parents out there, you can do this!

Objective Stats:

1. MCAT of 503 with a 123 in CARS
2. sGPA = cGPA = ~3.55
3. A's in all online DIY post-bac coursework including:
   1. Bio I
   2. Bio II
   3. Orgo I
   4. Orgo II
   5. Biochem
   6. Anatomy (the only A-)

Subjective Stats:

1. 5+ years working in challenging STEM industry
2. B.S. and M.S. in non-biological sciences STEM major
3. 500+ volunteer hours in ER while working full-time and performing DIY coursework
4. 40+ hrs shadowing PCP’s in underserved areas
5. No family ties to medicine or healthcare in any capacity
6. Married with two kids under 5 years old
7. First-generation college graduate
8. Strong set of letters of recommendation with committee letter from undergrad university. The importance of strong LORs is often overlooked.
9. Two institutional actions during undergrad
10. Documented run-ins with law enforcement in youth.
    1. Yes, more severe than a speeding or parking ticket.
    2. No, not the rigor of felony.
    3. 5+ years since the institutional actions
    4. 10+ years since the run-ins with law enforcement

Application Cycle:

1. Submitted both AMCAS and AACOMAS primaries by mid-June
2. # schools applied to
   1. DO: All but perhaps 2 or 3 of them
      1. So, ~35 DO schools
   2. MD: Low MCAT in-state and regional schools
      1. ~10 MD schools
3. Interviews, all of which I attended
   1. MD: 2
   2. DO: 12
4. Acceptances
   1. MD: 0
   2. DO: 8
5. Waitlists
   1. I was put on 5 additional DO waitlists but withdrew from them one by one as the acceptances rolled in.

To summarize, my low MCAT, institutional actions, and run-ins with law enforcement left me with absolutely no clue how the cycle would go. So I applied to anywhere I believed I had a remote possibility of getting in. I was only able to attend all the interviews because COVID had the cycle entirely virtual. If I could go back and do it again, I wouldn’t change anything given my circumstances. But I will say that the secondary applications almost broke me…

MD schools had no love for my app, that’s clear. The interview I received was for a low MCAT in-state school. Now, had my MCAT been 512…I think the story would’ve changed. Either way, flexibility is key for my family and I would’ve chosen the school that offered the most of it in the way they deliver academics.

What I would say helped me get A’s the most is being able to show proof of answering yes to these three questions:

1. Can you handle medical school?
   1. (+) Challenging STEM degrees
   2. (+) Super busy while nailing all A's in the post-bac
   3. (-) Low subsection MCAT score
   4. --> net (+)
2. Do you want to be a doctor?
   1. (+) 500+ volunteer hrs
   2. (+) 40+ shadowing hrs
   3. (+) making a career change
   4. (+) discovered medicine on my own
   5. --> (+ + + +)
3. Who supports your argument?
   1. (+) LOR from ER volunteer coordinator
   2. (+) LOR from manager at 5+ year job
   3. (+) LOR from shadowed PCP in high-needs area
   4. (+) LOR from chair of pre-health admissions committee
   5. (+) LOR from director at another volunteering organization
   6. --> (+ + + + +)

In my opinion, everyone needs to put as many +’s on that list as they can. It’s what your entire application is reduced to. You also must be able to explain why you want to be a doctor. Deep introspection is required here and you’ll find that out if you’re offered secondaries with schools you applied to. In the end, you need to be able to explain why nothing else but medicine will do it for you. Go deep or go home because adcoms have seen it all before.

A note on SDN. I joined this place before I began taking coursework, at the very beginning. In sum, I’m so thankful for the folks that tell it like it is. They’ve seen it all before and understand how to help. But don’t expect things sugar-coated. People here just don’t have the time to be empathetic and understanding in every response they type. I didn’t understand that until now, when I’m physically in medical school. Students, residents, and attendings—they’re all shy on time but SDN people for the most part really do want to be helpful. And they are! So my advice would be to never take things personal here. Go in, say your peace, get advice with both ears open, and go do it!

If I can do it with my stats, family responsibilities, and work obligations then so can you. So, get to it! And let me know if you have any additional questions.

EDIT:
Forgot that I also took Anatomy with UNE, so I added it to the list. I took the course mid-way through my application cycle to medical school to show I was still academically capable, since there was a two year gap between then and my most recent coursework (Biochem).

congrats! i had a similar path, except no kids! I'm an m3 now, and it just keeps getting better.

one caveat to your excellent 3 step plan, after spending a year on our adcom, I don't think letters of rec carry as much weight as I had hoped. they could certainly torpedo you, and if you have school connections they might be a way to flex your network. otherwise they might* be skimmed for red flags or discrepancies (you said x about your experience in application, but PI said y in letter or rec). occasionally i would wade through 30 pages of amcas, secondaries, and get to the letters of rec and find something useful and interesting and helpful. but usually not. i dont feel like many of the "adults" on the committee even opened them.

 

[LongRoad1]

How long did it take you to get all your prereqs done at UNE ? How did you balance working 9-5 full time and study and do all the shadowing and volunteer ?

One course each semester put me at right about two years. You really have more time than you think when you start to map out where you spend your hours each day. Schedule was close to below. This translated pretty directly to what I put in each week now that I'm in medical school. 65-70 hr to academics each week has me in the top third of the class. Can't cheat the system. If you want results, you need to put in the time!

Monday - Wednesday:
8a-5p: job
5p-7p: gym/flashcards
7p-10p: coursework
--> 9 hr coursework (3 hr/day)

Thursday - Friday:
8a-5p: job
5p-7p: gym/flashcards
7p-10p: hospital volunteering
--> 6 hr volunteering (3 hr/day)

Saturday - Sunday:
9a-12p: coursework
12p-2p: gym/flashcards
2p-4p: coursework
--> 10 hr coursework (5 hr/day)

--> 40 hr job
--> 19 hr coursework
--> 6 hr volunteering

TOTAL = 65 hr

 

[Nontrad_FL_LGBT]

Gotta tell ya man, thanks for posting this. We have very similar stats and life experiences and this gives me a lot of hope.

People don't understand the struggle of the non-trad. I've been working 80+ hour weeks for years at this point with little downtime. FM residency will probably feel like time off based on my friend's experience. 😂

 

[The Last Reclaimer]

I got a real curve ball for ya. Why are you doing this? What made you want to go to med school? I love hearing non-trad answers to this question.

 

[LongRoad1]

I got a real curve ball for ya. Why are you doing this? What made you want to go to med school? I love hearing non-trad answers to this question.

A few things converged for me at work. I was fairly young in my career, working for the kind of company and group that people never leave because it's such a great job and work culture. My next position, the last position I'd need, was lined up for me. The company was set to pay for my PhD with amazing mentors to get me through the process. Work was stimulating and rewarding enough to hang my hat on and feel good. Suffice it to say that if there were a good job with good people, I had it. So I knew I needed to look nowhere else to be happy and fulfilled with my job.

I'm the kind of person that looks into everything because I like to know the answer for next time. This put me ahead of many of my peers and it quickly showed at work with promotions. I grew a name for myself as 'the guy' who would figure out how to fix the thing that wasn't working. People at different groups within the company would seek me out because they knew I was the last line that could help them get unstuck. And that's what I loved most about my job. Being the guy who was an expert in his niche and used it to help my peers.

One day I was asked to present to our technical group about one of the things I figured out. To show more or less the process behind why and how it works so that everyone else can save a bunch of time and implement the procedure themselves. Mind you, I was no PhD yet I would be basically educating them on how they all missed this huge improvement in the process they all use just about every day in order to stake their livelihood. It took me a long time to figure out why this bothered me, because like I said, helping my peers out is what I enjoy most.

After really thinking about it, what bummed me out was that this thing I figured out--at the end of the day it was going to save the company a few bucks by increasing everyone's throughput in their daily work functions. I realized I felt wasted in my field because of this. I thought 'what if I can solve a problem in medicine that all my peers couldn't figure out?' I realized, I like solving problems and it didn't necessarily need to be in the technical field I was familiar with.

Don't get me wrong, I'm no genius. People figure out crap all the time that others manage to miss. That's not a knock on anyone, it's just a numbers game.

So, with no family or close friends in medicine, I began volunteering at a hospital and realized how much fun it would be if the problems I was trying to solve were people with lives that really matter.

Given only this as someone else's motivation, I wouldn't recommend switching into medicine. Not with the cush career path I had lined up.

But I have a personality that's pretty happy go lucky and I don't mind a good bit of suffering.

Unfortunately, so many people go into medical school with no clue what it's like to work half the hours, travel freely, and on and on. All the typical 'what if' complaints. I did those things, even walked away from the pre-med work a summer after setting the course to getting into medical school. It didn't work for me. I can't tell you how thankful and happy I am to finally be in medical school!

 

[BritainKittenMittens]

A few things converged for me at work. I was fairly young in my career, working for the kind of company and group that people never leave because it's such a great job and work culture. My next position, the last position I'd need, was lined up for me. The company was set to pay for my PhD with amazing mentors to get me through the process. Work was stimulating and rewarding enough to hang my hat on and feel good. Suffice it to say that if there were a good job with good people, I had it. So I knew I needed to look nowhere else to be happy and fulfilled with my job.

I'm the kind of person that looks into everything because I like to know the answer for next time. This put me ahead of many of my peers and it quickly showed at work with promotions. I grew a name for myself as 'the guy' who would figure out how to fix the thing that wasn't working. People at different groups within the company would seek me out because they knew I was the last line that could help them get unstuck. And that's what I loved most about my job. Being the guy who was an expert in his niche and used it to help my peers.

One day I was asked to present to our technical group about one of the things I figured out. To show more or less the process behind why and how it works so that everyone else can save a bunch of time and implement the procedure themselves. Mind you, I was no PhD yet I would be basically educating them on how they all missed this huge improvement in the process they all use just about every day in order to stake their livelihood. It took me a long time to figure out why this bothered me, because like I said, helping my peers out is what I enjoy most.

After really thinking about it, what bummed me out was that this thing I figured out--at the end of the day it was going to save the company a few bucks by increasing everyone's throughput in their daily work functions. I realized I felt wasted in my field because of this. I thought 'what if I can solve a problem in medicine that all my peers couldn't figure out?' I realized, I like solving problems and it didn't necessarily need to be in the technical field I was familiar with.

Don't get me wrong, I'm no genius. People figure out crap all the time that others manage to miss. That's not a knock on anyone, it's just a numbers game.

So, with no family or close friends in medicine, I began volunteering at a hospital and realized how much fun it would be if the problems I was trying to solve were people with lives that really matter.

Given only this as someone else's motivation, I wouldn't recommend switching into medicine. Not with the cush career path I had lined up.

But I have a personality that's pretty happy go lucky and I don't mind a good bit of suffering.

Unfortunately, so many people go into medical school with no clue what it's like to work half the hours, travel freely, and on and on. All the typical 'what if' complaints. I did those things, even walked away from the pre-med work a summer after setting the course to getting into medical school. It didn't work for me. I can't tell you how thankful and happy I am to finally be in medical school!

I'd agree with the statement in bold lol. I'm sure there's more to it, but this is an interesting "why medicine?" origin story, but hey if it works out for you and you're happy about it lol. What I read was something like in my original field I discovered a (process?) optimization that none of the other PhDs (who supposedly are trained in science and not industrial engineering) figured out and my talents were put to waste. Seems like a very one-off episode that might say more about your immediate peers there than anything else. But hey, if you're happy in medicine and you do a good job, that's what matters.