Accepted but getting cold feet

[jasfos]

Hi everyone! I'm very thankful to have been accepted but find myself starting to get cold feet about the commitment. I would appreciate some insight to guide my thought process. Constructive feedback only, please.

Why medicine:
In high school, I loved loved my biology and chemistry classes--I remember I could read my bio textbook for 10 hour straight for fun, no joke. In college, I really remained open to other fields while continuing to explore medicine. I did a decent amount of shadowing and clinical service. I majored in a social science. I was very involved in basic science research. Academically, I confirmed that medicine was the subject that most excited me, and I loved the problem-solving and intellectual nature of it. This ruled out my social science subject as a career. Volunteering, I found I truly enjoyed working with individuals, and enjoyed that I was able to affect them in some way. Research, I felt, wasn't a good fit for me because a) you're pretty distant from your work's impact on people and b) it's really difficult to see substantial results or progress from your work. Both of these factors are important to me in having a fulfilling career.

Job stability + decent income were pros, but not deciding factors. Job stability is more important to me, income is not so important to me as long as I make enough to live comfortably (you do not need anywhere close to a doctor's salary for that!).

Why cold thoughts:
Now that the prospect of being a doctor is so tangible, I've been thinking a lot more about the cons. The incredible debt, watching your youth pass by as you're in school, malignant teaching culture of some programs, difficulty of balancing finding a partner/starting a family with training, limited ability to have a normal life outside of medicine for 7-10 years, so much administrative BS you deal with, patients aren't always appreciative of your work, high rate of burnout/depression/suicide ideation, etc. I've been reading resident forums and med student blogs more, and lots of people sound bitter and disenchanted. I keep reading people writing they want to quit but can't because of the debt. Some of my friends who are currently in med school are similarly disenchanted.

Both of my parents are in medicine (and fully supportive of me changing paths if that's what I want!). I see them being overworked, stressed about malpractice, mistreated by admin and patients at times. They both enjoy the medicine itself and love the nature of the work, but the other factors really seem to weigh down on them and drain them so much. I can see both of them heading towards burnout.

Overall:
If I had unlimited time and money, I would choose medicine in a heartbeat. I wouldn't be worried about the debt, and I wouldn't worry about the time constraints medicine placed on the rest of my life. However, my time is constrained, and I've been wondering if I'd be happier overall in a career that was less exciting and less fulfilling to me but was not so demanding. This is hard for me to decide because my academic life has always been such a big source of fulfillment and intellectual challenge/excitement for me. Right now, I feel like the benefits to me outweigh the costs. But how can really understand the costs of medicine before feeling them myself? I worry that I too will be disillusioned like others once I start med school, and worry that I find what I perceive to be the rewards are not enough to overcome the challenges anymore.

I'd really love some guidance on this, especially from those further along their career that are NOT disenchanted or regretting their choice.

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[Goro]

Medicine is a calling, like being a soldier or a priest. What does your heart tell you?

Hi everyone! I'm very thankful to have been accepted but find myself starting to get cold feet about the commitment. I would appreciate some insight to guide my thought process. Constructive feedback only, please.

Why medicine:
In high school, I loved loved my biology and chemistry classes--I remember I could read my bio textbook for 10 hour straight, no joke. In college, I really remained open to other fields while continuing to explore medicine. I did a decent amount of shadowing and clinical service. I majored in a social science. I was very involved in basic science research. Academically, I confirmed that medicine was the subject that truly excited me, and I loved the problem-solving and intellectual nature of the subject. This ruled out my social science subject as a career. Volunteering, I found I truly enjoyed working with individuals, and enjoyed that I was able to affect them in some way. Research, I felt, wasn't a good fit for me because a) you're pretty distant from your work's impact on people and b) it's really difficult to see substantial results or progress from your work. Both of these factors are important to me in having a fulfilling career. So, essentially, I was drawn to medicine for the classic pre-med reason of science+people.

Job stability + decent income were pros, but not deciding factors. Job stability is more important to me, income is not so important to me as long as I make enough to live comfortably (you do not need anywhere close to a doctor's salary for that!).

Why cold thoughts:
Now that the prospect of being a doctor is so tangible, I've been thinking a lot more about the cons. The incredible debt, watching your youth pass by as you're in school, malignant teaching culture of some programs, difficulty of balancing finding a partner/starting a family with training, limited ability to have a normal life outside of medicine for 7-10 years, so much administrative BS you deal with, patients aren't always appreciative of your work, high rate of burnout/depression/suicide ideation, etc. I've been reading resident forums and med student blogs more, and lots of people sound bitter and disenchanted. I keep reading people writing they want to quit but can't because of the debt. Some of my friends who are currently in med school are similarly disenchanted.

Both of my parents are in medicine (and fully supportive of me changing paths if that's what I want!). I see them being overworked, stressed about malpractice, mistreated by admin and patients at times. They both enjoy the medicine itself and love the nature of the work, but the other factors really seem to weigh down on them and drain them so much. I can see both of them heading towards burnout.

Overall:
If I had unlimited time and money, I would choose medicine in a heartbeat. I wouldn't be worried about the debt, and I wouldn't worry about the time constraints medicine placed on the rest of my life. However, my time is constrained, and I've been wondering if I'd be happier overall in a career that was less exciting and less fulfilling to me but was not so demanding. This is hard for me to decide because my academic life has always been such a big source of fulfillment and intellectual challenge/excitement for me. Right now, I feel like the benefits to me outweigh the costs. But how can really understand the costs of medicine before feeling them myself? I worry that I too will be disillusioned like others once I start med school, and worry that I find what I perceive to be the rewards are not enough to overcome the challenges anymore.

I'd really love some guidance on this, especially from those further along their career that are NOT disenchanted or regretting their choice.

 

[solitarius]

Just do it.

Every job sucks along the same lines - dealing with difficult people, being overworked, feeling undervalued. You know what's worse than being stressed out at work? Being stressed out at home because you can't make ends meet or because layoffs are coming to your plant / office.

I stand by my original view: medicine is the best job out there for working stiffs.

 

[Lucca]

I'll let the medical students and the more experienced pre-allo's take this one, but I do have this to say:

You are responsible for you. Your feelings, your experiences, your outlook is your responsibility. Barring mental illness, you can decide if you are going to be happy in medicine or not.

Also, what are your alternatives? Working in an office?

It's all on you, best of luck.

Remember
"Some people die when they are 25 and aren't buried until they are 75." ~Ben Franklin

 

[LostinLift]

The incredible debt

Aren't both your parents doctors?

watching your youth pass by as you're in school

After having worked in the real world doing scut work, I would much rather be in school just for the fact of being in school, let alone on the path to becoming a physician.

malignant teaching culture of some programs

Don't choose a malignant program Mr./Ms. Multiple Acceptances.

difficulty of balancing finding a partner/starting a family with training

True, see below.

limited ability to have a normal life outside of medicine for 7-10 years

True of any demanding career that requires you to work 60-100 hours/week. And the only thing that should be limited is your time, your attitude determines everything else.

so much administrative BS you deal with

True in almost any job nowadays.

patients aren't always appreciative of your work

True of any service industry based job.

high rate of burnout/depression/suicide ideation, etc.

True of many high stress, high reward jobs.

I've been reading resident forums and med student blogs more, and lots of people sound bitter and disenchanted. I keep reading people writing they want to quit but can't because of the debt. Some of my friends who are currently in med school are similarly disenchanted.

People love to complain, it helps with stress.


Many excellent responses above mine. Your attitude is everything. What is your desire? What is your attitude?

 

[SunsFun]

I don't have any specific advice to give you on the situation at hand but I am hoping that more and more people who feel the way you do enter medical profession.

I posted about this earlier in another thread but I feel that this subject is important enough to bring up again. What people seem to hate is not practicing medicine in itself but the way they are forced to practice it for no good reason. The more people we have who are willing to stand up and speak up about the problems you mentioned (that all normal human beings who are doctors should be concerned about) the higher the chance we have to change this situation.

In the end of the day I don't want a doctor who has thrown his family and all other meaningful relationships he had under the bus in order to be a doctor to treat my family. I also don't want colleagues who are willing to bend over and take it just because old timers tell them that this is just the way it goes and even the most meaningless and unnecessary sacrifices are just a right of passage.

 

[whatever5]

So much of what you said is a lot of what I'm going through at the moment, and asking in the pre-med forum is probably a bad idea (you want more med students/residents/docs chiming in than neurotic premeds who would sell their mothers for a seat at a school).

I imagine a big part of why you're going into medicine is because it's a meaningful career and you feel like you can do a lot of good in your life by pursuing it. In a sense, that is probably true, but with the huge amount of uncertainty concerning the future of practicing medicine (as well as the current issues with it), a lot of the time you won't feel like most of your time is actually spent helping people. Also, another big thing is how happy you want to be in life - for the most part, physicians are not happy. Many end up bitter and frustrated for reasons you already mentioned, and it's really ****ty to see all of your friends who aren't in medicine live lives that are really fulfilling in other ways that don't include a high-power career.

However, it's not all bad either. Many people really enjoy medical school despite how much it sucks because of the amazing friendships you form with your classmates who are going through the same thing. You can choose to go into family practice, meaning you'd barely have to break a sweat during med school and just focus on passing, have a short residency that isn't too bad, and end up working decent hours in the end. It's really up to you if you want to work to live or live to work.

 

[sinombre]

for the most part, physicians are not happy.

Kind of a giant generalization, don't you think? There are unhappy people in every field. There are certainly unhappy physicians, but I'd bet there are more on the "happy" end of the spectrum than the "unhappy" end.

You can choose to go into family practice, meaning you'd barely have to break a sweat during med school and just focus on passing.

This is ridiculous. Just wait until you start and see how much work it takes just to pass. I think medical school is a lot of fun for the reasons you mentioned, but I can guarantee you that the amount of work involved is significantly more than anything you experienced in undergrad, and will challenge you regardless of how well you intend to do.

I understand the point you were trying to make, but if you think medical school will be a cakewalk because you don't intend on pursuing a "competitive" field, you're in for a big surprise.

 

[Mornhavon]

.

 

[lobo.solo]

The real world sucks... Regular jobs suck. In medicine at least know your job is important in someway for some people. There are many rewards in medicine that you wouldn't find some place else. With that being said the fact that you have doubts is worrisome... You haven't even start it!!!

 

[TheKingofClay]

But at the same time, I think the real world is great. And so is school. I love them both!

Its not quite as black and white as "regular jobs suck" or go "work in an office" from 9-5. I've been out of school for 3 years or so and I've been around many many brilliant individuals working on their own startups, and doing incredible work across all fields from design to film to computer science and so on. They all are inspirations to me.

Just do some more self-reflecting and you'll be alright. Its important to be thinking deeply and critically and not passively go into a field. At the end of the day, find your passion, be inspired, and do what you love most. Have a great attitude and things will pan out fine regardless of the route you may choose to pursue.

 

[Microglia]

I think the real concern is that people think when you're in med school you hit the accept decision button and drop off the face of the earth into a study dungeon. In reality, at least so far, it's really not that bad to keep a good average in med school. If you want a 95+ on every exam, yea that will take so much more work than it's worth, but if you go to a P/F school and just keep yourself above a 90, it really doesn't take too much of a toll on you compared to having a real job and commuting, working, commuting, sleeping, repeat. I find that the people who handle it the worst are those who have never worked a real job, and have some idea that because they got into med school they're so special they could have just been a CEO working 9 to 5 and making 6 figures. In reality, so many more people get into med school than get those fancy ibanking jobs, and the ibanking kids work a lot harder than us. I can wake up at 11 on a Wednesday and start studying for 6 or 7 hours and be done for the day a lot of the time. That will probably increase by a few hours next year, and I'm sure 3rd year and residency will be tough, but you also get used to slowly increasing the amount of studying.

 

[DokterMom]

The first 5-10 years post-college are extremely demanding of your time and resources in ANY field that eventually leads to career /financial success. If you are reasonably ambitious and intelligent, you will not want to coast while the less capable pedal faster and pass you on the career track -- when means you'll be giving it your all anywhere. If you coast, you drift.

Is it really so much worse to be in school studying material that you love than to be in some cubicle somewhere pounding out spreadsheets?

 

[Espadaleader]

Medicine will be a "breeze" compared to what most ppl are used too. Listen, medicine will have all of these "bad" things:

watching your youth pass by as you're in school
limited ability to have a normal life outside of medicine for 7-10 years
so much administrative BS you deal with
patients, people, boss etc. aren't always appreciative of your work
high rate of burnout/depression/suicide ideation, etc.

But at least you will be able to feed your children. Seriously. Many people work 2-3 jobs, 50-60 hours a week, no healthcare, no job security, no way to pay off debt.

If you love medicine do it!

 

[whatever5]

Kind of a giant generalization, don't you think? There are unhappy people in every field. There are certainly unhappy physicians, but I'd bet there are more on the "happy" end of the spectrum than the "unhappy" end.



This is ridiculous. Just wait until you start and see how much work it takes just to pass. I think medical school is a lot of fun for the reasons you mentioned, but I can guarantee you that the amount of work involved is significantly more than anything you experienced in undergrad, and will challenge you regardless of how well you intend to do.

I understand the point you were trying to make, but if you think medical school will be a cakewalk because you don't intend on pursuing a "competitive" field, you're in for a big surprise.

http://www.jacksonhealthcare.com/media/191888/2013physiciantrends-void_ebk0513.pdf

I guess you were right. A mere 43% are unhappy with their job, so "most" are in the happy part of the spectrum.

Also, we get it. Medical school is a lot of work. However, I still contend that one would feel significantly less stress and pressure if they were going for a non-competitive specialty.

 

[sinombre]

http://www.jacksonhealthcare.com/media/191888/2013physiciantrends-void_ebk0513.pdf

I guess you were right. A mere 43% are unhappy with their job, so "most" are in the happy part of the spectrum.

Also, we get it. Medical school is a lot of work. However, I still contend that one would feel significantly less stress and pressure if they were going for a non-competitive specialty.

That survey has a 1.5% response rate... so 42% of physicians of the 1.5% who responded were dissatisfied. Here is a paper comparing satisfaction across different specialties with a response rate of 65%: http://archinte.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=212212

"More than 70% of US physicians reported being satisfied or very satisfied with their careers in medicine."

You are right that if your goal is to go into a less competitive specialty, there is less stress involved. But the claim that "you barely have to break a sweat during med school" is dead wrong. There is still a significant amount of work and stress involved for medical students going into less competitive specialties, even though it is comparably less stressful/time consuming than trying to go into something more competitive.

 

[markmark]

well. don't go, and tell your friends not to go. more space for us ..

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

You probably shouldn't be asking a bunch of neurotic pre-meds who would sell their entire family for a med school acceptance if you should take your acceptance or not. Most people here think medicine is the golden ticket, filled with puppies and rainbows and fat stacks of cash. You need to decide for yourself if this is what you want to do or not. If it were me, I would see if you can defer for a year and work a real job and evaluate what kind of career you would like.

 

[mvenus929]

So much of what you said is a lot of what I'm going through at the moment, and asking in the pre-med forum is probably a bad idea (you want more med students/residents/docs chiming in than neurotic premeds who would sell their mothers for a seat at a school).

Plenty of med students, residents, and attendings frequent Pre-Allo. If OP posted in another forum, it would've been moved here. The audience of the post does not matter as much as the status of the person posting.

I was in clinic last week with a young attending and a nearly graduated resident. Both say they would not have done it again, but not because they don't enjoy the work... because they see other ways of getting enjoyment without as much stress. I haven't hit that point yet--I'm scared to death of starting residency, but I was just as scared getting ready to start medical school. And you don't have to hide yourself away for 4+3 or more years until you become an attending... life does go on, and you should be able to find someone if you put the effort into it. Several of my classmates have gotten married or are getting ready to get married. Some are having children. I'm still in the single group, but it's because I have different priorities.

None of us are going to be able to make the decision for you, but if you can't see yourself doing anything other than medicine, then go through the process. If you think you could do something else, then it might be worth asking for a deferrment (can't guarantee you'd be granted one, but worth a shot) and doing something else to see if you can get fulfillment somewhere else.

 

[Syndicate]

Medicine is hard and stressful. But it's a better job than any other job out there. An average doctor is better off in terms of money, job stability, prestige, fulfillment, etc than an average CEO, average lawyer, average businessman, average scientist, average engineer, average computer programmer.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Tl;dr just go to school and stop whining.

 

[emptinessofdark]

Do you want to trade spots? I'll take that med school spot any day.

 

[I Love Cats]

Overall:
If I had unlimited time and money, I would choose medicine in a heartbeat. I wouldn't be worried about the debt, and I wouldn't worry about the time constraints medicine placed on the rest of my life. However, my time is constrained, and I've been wondering if I'd be happier overall in a career that was less exciting and less fulfilling to me but was not so demanding. This is hard for me to decide because my academic life has always been such a big source of fulfillment and intellectual challenge/excitement for me. Right now, I feel like the benefits to me outweigh the costs. But how can really understand the costs of medicine before feeling them myself? I worry that I too will be disillusioned like others once I start med school, and worry that I find what I perceive to be the rewards are not enough to overcome the challenges anymore.

I'd really love some guidance on this, especially from those further along their career that are NOT disenchanted or regretting their choice.

You gotta feel called. I have my days where my heart beats a little faster thinking about the sacrifices, and then I get amped up knowing I'm going to kick a** and save lives. Okay, maybe not save depending on what I go into, but nothing makes me more excited than knowing I can powerfully help transform people's lives and even save them. People are going to live happier and better lives because I will be there to support them in whatever way I end up specializing. To me, that's legit.

It's cool that it suits your intellect and academic needs, but do you want to go to the grave knowing you did anything else? Deep down, you gotta get warm fuzzies. The warm fuzzies will lead you. Feel the warmth. Follow the fuzzies.

 

[Chipster.]

You gotta feel called. I have my days where my heart beats a little faster thinking about the sacrifices, and then I get amped up knowing I'm going to kick a** and save lives. Okay, maybe not save depending on what I go into, but nothing makes me more excited than knowing I can powerfully help transform people's lives and even save them. People are going to live happier and better lives because I will be there to support them in whatever way I end up specializing. To me, that's legit.

It's cool that it suits your intellect and academic needs, but do you want to go to the grave knowing you did anything else? Deep down, you gotta get warm fuzzies. The warm fuzzies will lead you. Feel the warmth. Follow the fuzzies.

Original quote? Or did you steal that from Gandhi?

 

[I Love Cats]

Original quote? Or did you steal that from Gandhi?

OC

 

[Itsame]

Listen, the satisfaction thing is going to be different for everyone, and all lot of your outcome is going to depend on your mindset about it.

You gotta really sit and think hard about what you want out of life.

I'm a second year med-student, currently weighed down in what many people consider the worst part of med school. I still think a career in medicine is going to be awesome.

Yeah the money stuff is a little scary, but you just have to practical with it. For undergrad, I was lucky enough to get a scholarship at a state school, and for medicine, I knew I was interested in primary care, so I went to a state school again. But even as a family med doc in my part of the country, you are looking at like $150K starting out after residency.

150K! Take a second to appreciate how ridiculous of an amount of money that is to earn every year! To me, that's more than both of my working-class parents made combined throughout my childhood, and they had hella-stress and definitely felt under-appreciated in their jobs. Add on-top of that getting to be in a position to literally save lives - sounds like a good gig to me!

 

[1badmamajama]

Defer a year (if your school allows it) to think about your life and do the things you want to (since you feel your youth is passing you by, lol).
You've made some incredibly overreaching generalizations.
The reason that there are so many unhappy physicians could be because they didn't thoroughly think about some of the concerns you've brought up. Don't make their mistake.

 

[sazerac]

OP, can you please explain a little more why you feel like your "time is constrained"?

I dig the rest of your post but this reasoning is confusing me. I speak as a frequent visitor to the nontrad forums where folks are in their 30s and happy to pursue medicine.

 

[jasfos]

Thanks to everyone for sharing their thoughts and insights.

OP, can you please explain a little more why you feel like your "time is constrained"?

I dig the rest of your post but this reasoning is confusing me. I speak as a frequent visitor to the nontrad forums where folks are in their 30s and happy to pursue medicine.

By time constraints, I meant that basically you don't have unlimited time--everything you do has an opportunity cost time wise. Time spent doing one thing is time away from everything else.You only have 24 hours in a day--and out of that must come your career, self-care, family life, and other pursuits. I love my work life, I really do. My work makes me feel fulfilled, and I want to know that I am putting my abilities and my work towards bettering the lives of those around me. But, I don't want my work life to be so demanding that it comes at the significant expense of other parts of my life.

 

[EMDO2018]

So

Thanks to everyone for sharing their thoughts and insights.



By time constraints, I meant that basically you don't have unlimited time--everything you do has an opportunity cost time wise. Time spent doing one thing is time away from everything else.You only have 24 hours in a day--and out of that must come your career, self-care, family life, and other pursuits. I love my work life, I really do. My work makes me feel fulfilled, and I want to know that I am putting my abilities and my work towards bettering the lives of those around me. But, I don't want my work life to be so demanding that it comes at the significant expense of other parts of my life.

both of your parents are docs, and aren't helping you pay for school?

 

[EMDO2018]

And you know, teaching has all the problems you mentioned, long hours, stress, grading hundreds of papers, coming up with lesson plans, feeling as if you have no life, and dealing with unappreciative jerk teenagers everyday BUT instead of being paid 200k plus, teachers make 30-50k and can barely keep the lights on. Be thankful you are going into medicine. the grass is rarely greener o the other side.

 

[Niemi]

.

 

[snowflakes]

There are plenty of "cold feet" threads buried in this forum that prove you are not alone in having these thoughts... I think it is good to think about these things now and again... and question. Mindfulness is an often overlooked but much needed trait in the practice of medicine.

I think these thoughts are normal and healthy. Medicine is a huge commitment, and I'm not sure how many people really realize the magnitude of what they are committing themselves too. It's good to honestly think about these costs, and foolish, I think, to go into it brushing off this side of medicine.

Most people here think medicine is the golden ticket, filled with puppies and rainbows and fat stacks of cash.

Too true. I wonder if the unwavering enthusiasm of some is indicative of true passion or lack of real thought about the costs.

neurotic premeds who would sell their mothers for a seat at a school.

a bunch of neurotic pre-meds who would sell their entire family for a med school acceptance

haha, I already spot a couple of these on this thread

 

[Aerus]

All jobs suck in some form. Just find the job that fulfills you the most, as that's likely to suck the least.

 

[scarletgirl777]

No job is perfect. Every job has some kind of downside.

I generally think the time to think about whether or not you want to go to med school is not after you have already gotten into med school. Do you have a specific viable alternative in mind? Ideally you would have spent time in college trying to think about different career paths. Assuming you have spent every second of your academic life preparing to get into med school, it might realistically be hard for you to switch gears and be competitive for another fulfilling field.

The great thing about medicine is that there are so many options for so many different personality types. No, you are almost certainly not going to be rich. And there are only a handful of specialties with great ratios of money earned to time spent working. But if you are willing to decide what is most important to you and you are at least an average medical student, you can get yourself a pretty sweet setup. You can work less than 50 hours a week if you're ok knowing you'll never make a quarter million dollars. You can set yourself up to make well in excess of that if you're ok taking some financial risks and joining or starting your own group particularly in specific specialties that are conducive to that. I know doctors who work in industry, consulting, and medical journalism, who have their own patents, or who run their own (non-clinical) medical businesses--so there are non-clinical opportunities as well that are in reach with the right networking. Not everyone is going to get to be a dermatologist or an ophthalmologist but as long as you're highly motivated you can build a very successful life for yourself and your family. And even if you're not very motivated, even mediocre and below average doctors have a financial stability that our friends in law, tech, and finance could never dream of. Our ceiling is low in clinical medicine but you can't fall that far.

 

[medicalmnt]

gl

 

[dr.jamzzz]

I'll let the medical students and the more experienced pre-allo's take this one, but I do have this to say:

You are responsible for you. Your feelings, your experiences, your outlook is your responsibility. Barring mental illness, you can decide if you are going to be happy in medicine or not.

Also, what are your alternatives? Working in an office?

It's all on you, best of luck.

Remember
"Some people die when they are 25 and aren't buried until they are 75." ~Ben Franklin

Is that some stoicism I sense? HAHA