Accepted, but need to defend undisclosed background check?

[QUESTIONSSI]

I was recently accepted to a medical school, and while finalizing my decision, I received a notification that my background-check came back positive for misdemeanor speeding (which I didn't disclose earlier), and I must now go before a special CBC-committee to defend myself.

I was under the impression that med-schools didn't need/want information about minor infractions like speeding, but I guess I was wrong. Should I just say that I wasn't aware we had to disclose this type of information? Am I in danger of possibly losing my seat, or this just a simple formality?

EDIT:

Okay, so clarification.

I was aware we had to disclose misdemeanors (as its plainly stated on both AMCAS and Secondary Applications), I just wasn't aware that my infraction, when it occurred, was recorded as a misdemeanor.

When my background-check came back indicating the infraction, it had been months since I had read my apps/terms, and when my eyes passed over the speeding designation (46 in a 35), I just immediately thought, "minor traffic infraction you are repeatedly told to ignore", and didn't seem to register the "misdemeanor" category it fell under.

After submitting the report to my school, its pretty clear this is a problem. I'm going to be honest (even if it makes me look a little absent-minded). It was my responsibility to make sure that all prior infractions weren't misdemeanors, and I should have read the background-report more carefully. I'll try to emphasize that this was a moment of carelessness, rather than a deliberate attempt to mislead the school about a speeding ticket.

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[Neutropix]

You are going to get people who will tell you: it doesn't matter, it does matter, and you should consult a lawyer. If I were you I'd start researching your schools documents on this subject. It probably wouldn't be a bad idea to get a lawyer to go over them.

However, a misdemeanor is pretty cut and dry. If the school said you need to report misdemeanors why would you expect speeding to be exempt from that category?

Similar questions have come up before and in much worse circumstances. I'd say you will be fine but don't take this lightly.

Before I apply I will make sure to run a background check and disclose everything. I was arrested for being in the wrong place at the wrong time when I was sixteen and the charges were dropped (exponged). The schools probably wouldn't find this information out given that it was a small town but better safe than sorry.

 

[mimelim]

Why in God's name would you ever not disclose a misdemeanor, especially something that is considered less important like speeding? I don't understand. Nobody cares about this unless they get blindsided by it, so why hide it? Saying, "I didn't know we had to disclose it." is the same as saying, "I didn't know what the speed limit was." While it may be true, it demonstrates pretty poor decision making on your part.

Yes, you can lose your seat over something like this. Once again, it is not the infraction that is bad. It is the fact that it wasn't disclosed properly. Everyone else was able to follow the prompt properly, why admit someone who can't when we can replace them so easily? By the same token, given that speeding is considered to be one of the lightest things you could possibly get a conviction for, most committees will tend to be in a rather forgiving mood, assuming that you don't try and argue with them about how this isn't your fault or that the system is against you or whatever.

 

[NeuResurgens]

Wait.. getting a speeding ticket counts as a misdemeanor? Great, there goes my clean record.

 

[QUESTIONSSI]

Okay, so clarification.

I was aware we had to disclose misdemeanors (as its plainly stated on both AMCAS and Secondary Applications), I just wasn't aware that my infraction, when it occurred, was recorded as a misdemeanor.

When my background-check came back indicating the infraction, it had been months since I had read my apps/terms, and when my eyes passed over the speeding designation (46 in a 35), I just immediately thought, "minor traffic infraction you are repeatedly told to ignore", and didn't seem to register the "misdemeanor" category it fell under.

After submitting the report to my school, its pretty clear this is a problem. I'm going to be honest (even if it makes me look a little absent-minded). It was my responsibility to make sure that all prior infractions weren't misdemeanors, and I should have read the background-report more carefully. I'll try to emphasize that this was a moment of carelessness, rather than a deliberate attempt to mislead the school about a speeding ticket.

 

[HybridEarth]

Pretty sure if you do the driving classes it does not go on your record. I've had tickets dropped after paying fees and doing the classes. @UNMedGa

 

[Goro]

On your application, there must have been a question about "Please report any convictions, including misdemeanors?"

If so, what was so hard to understand about that?

The fact that the school is making an issue of this says to me that they asked about on the app form.



I was under the impression that med-schools didn't need/want information about minor infractions like speeding, but I guess I was wrong. Should I just say that I wasn't aware we had to disclose this type of information? Am I in danger of possibly losing my seat, or this just a simple formality?

 

[DokterMom]

In many states, speeding is considered a traffic violation, not a criminal misdemeanor, so not even in the same category. I imagine that's what @OP was thinking, and that's a pretty understandable mistake.

@OP - I don't know what state you live in, what state your college is in, and what state the school is in, but do check the differences for how each records speeding violations to see if differences between them help your case.

 

[mimelim]

Pretty sure if you do the driving classes it does not go on your record. I've had tickets dropped after paying fees and doing the classes. @UNMedGa

This depends on the state, but yes, most if not all have things like this for the first (or a couple) offenses.

In many states, speeding is considered a traffic violation, not a criminal misdemeanor, so not even in the same category. I imagine that's what @OP was thinking, and that's a pretty understandable mistake.

@OP - I don't know what state you live in, what state your college is in, and what state the school is in, but do check the differences for how each records speeding violations to see if differences between them help your case.

I disagree. Most people don't know the difference between a traffic violation and a misdemeanor or what it means, I doubt OP thought about this at all. Which is the bigger problem. Ticket = no big deal, pay fine and move on without being conscientious is a problem. And to be honest, that kind of attitude in medicine is an even bigger problem. I don't think that it is too high of a standard to expect people going into medicine to read the fine print on things that are 'important'. Personally, I think getting pulled over by a cop means something important is going on, but this is just my opinion.

I am also sick of cleaning up after interns/second years who don't understand the importance of conscientiousness, so maybe that is why this kind of stuff in applicants bugs me a lot, in large part because people don't generally change in that regard.

 

[DokterMom]

I disagree. Most people don't know the difference between a traffic violation and a misdemeanor or what it means, I doubt OP thought about this at all. Which is the bigger problem. Ticket = no big deal, pay fine and move on without being conscientious is a problem. And to be honest, that kind of attitude in medicine is an even bigger problem. I don't think that it is too high of a standard to expect people going into medicine to read the fine print on things that are 'important'. Personally, I think getting pulled over by a cop means something important is going on, but this is just my opinion.

I am also sick of cleaning up after interns/second years who don't understand the importance of conscientiousness, so maybe that is why this kind of stuff in applicants bugs me a lot, in large part because people don't generally change in that regard.

A very valid (and probably accurate) perspective.

 

[Jagon]

Would anyone here say an accepted student would have a problem if an arrest record came up on their background check, but the school only asked about convictions on their secondary?

 

[jqueb29]

Would anyone here say an accepted student would have a problem if an arrest record came up on their background check, but the school only asked about convictions on their secondary?

They may not be happy, but legally speaking they would have absolutely no standing to punish you if they only asked about convictions.

 

[NYerrr]

Sorry OP, you could have run your own background check before you even applied through Certiphi. Its worth the expense. Then there would be no unpleasant surprises.

 

[Iso4ane]

This depends on the state, but yes, most if not all have things like this for the first (or a couple) offenses.



I disagree. Most people don't know the difference between a traffic violation and a misdemeanor or what it means, I doubt OP thought about this at all. Which is the bigger problem. Ticket = no big deal, pay fine and move on without being conscientious is a problem. And to be honest, that kind of attitude in medicine is an even bigger problem. I don't think that it is too high of a standard to expect people going into medicine to read the fine print on things that are 'important'. Personally, I think getting pulled over by a cop means something important is going on, but this is just my opinion.

I am also sick of cleaning up after interns/second years who don't understand the importance of conscientiousness, so maybe that is why this kind of stuff in applicants bugs me a lot, in large part because people don't generally change in that regard.

So you stating that he should've been aware that in his current state of residency he should've known that a traffic violation = misdemeanor. While it is entirely possible that he grew up in a state where traffic violation =/= misdemeanor.

EDIT: For example, speeding (ust speeding, and not recklessly) is a minor misdemeanor, as is running a red light.

And there are some towns/township which are notorious for ticket people going 26 in a 25mph zone, even if it is one of those 35->25->35 where the 25mph zone is like 100yards long and you were decelerating. Hell, I've heard anecdotes where they will ticket your car when you still have time on the meter.

 

[mimelim]

So you stating that he should've been aware that in his current state of residency he should've known that a traffic violation = misdemeanor. While it is entirely possible that he grew up in a state where traffic violation =/= misdemeanor.

EDIT: For example, speeding (ust speeding, and not recklessly) is a minor misdemeanor, as is running a red light.

And there are some towns/township which are notorious for ticket people going 26 in a 25mph zone, even if it is one of those 35->25->35 where the 25mph zone is like 100yards long and you were decelerating. Hell, I've heard anecdotes where they will ticket your car when you still have time on the meter.

I am saying that when you sign a document that says that you will have a misdemeanor conviction on your record by signing, you should know that. Alternatively, if you go to court to fight a ticket, you should know what the legal ramifications of it are. He committed a misdemeanor. He was convicted of a misdemeanor. Yet, when asked to disclose it did not because of one of two reasons. #1 He did not know that he was convicted of a misdemeanor or #2 He did not think that it was important enough to disclose this misdemeanor because he considered it 'too minor'. This is about being conscientious. This is about attention to details. Is it a burden on someone who gets a ticket and is planning to apply to medical school? Yes. But, guess what, medicine is hard. There are a lot of details. Important details. Letting something, like previous legal actions, 'slip your mind' is a pretty bad black mark. Is it career ending? Certainly not. Is it something that shouldn't happen and can have bad consequences.

Nobody is arguing about a speeding ticket being a problem. I don't know why you feel the need to talk about speeds or anything of that ilk.

 

[Ismet]

So you stating that he should've been aware that in his current state of residency he should've known that a traffic violation = misdemeanor. While it is entirely possible that he grew up in a state where traffic violation =/= misdemeanor.

EDIT: For example, speeding (ust speeding, and not recklessly) is a minor misdemeanor, as is running a red light.

And there are some towns/township which are notorious for ticket people going 26 in a 25mph zone, even if it is one of those 35->25->35 where the 25mph zone is like 100yards long and you were decelerating. Hell, I've heard anecdotes where they will ticket your car when you still have time on the meter.

In what state is a parking ticket even remotely a misdemeanor? Also you just spend 5 minute in court and get that cleared.

Doesn't matter how the ticket was given or what the circumstances were, that's irrelevant to the discussion. If OP brings any of that talk up, that's making excuses and that's putting him in an even deeper hole.

 

[Iso4ane]

I am saying that when you sign a document that says that you will have a misdemeanor conviction on your record by signing, you should know that. Alternatively, if you go to court to fight a ticket, you should know what the legal ramifications of it are. He committed a misdemeanor. He was convicted of a misdemeanor. Yet, when asked to disclose it did not because of one of two reasons. #1 He did not know that he was convicted of a misdemeanor or #2 He did not think that it was important enough to disclose this misdemeanor because he considered it 'too minor'. This is about being conscientious. This is about attention to details. Is it a burden on someone who gets a ticket and is planning to apply to medical school? Yes. But, guess what, medicine is hard. There are a lot of details. Important details. Letting something, like previous legal actions, 'slip your mind' is a pretty bad black mark. Is it career ending? Certainly not. Is it something that shouldn't happen and can have bad consequences.

Nobody is arguing about a speeding ticket being a problem. I don't know why you feel the need to talk about speeds or anything of that ilk.

Well, that is a different story, but from what I've heard the speeding violations don't say that speeding is a misdemeanor, but yeah if you sign something and the document clearly states it, then yeah I have no qualms about it. But, some states are sneaky as is.

 

[mimelim]

Well, that is a different story, but from what I've heard the speeding violations don't say that speeding is a misdemeanor, but yeah if you sign something and the document clearly states it, then yeah I have no qualms about it. But, some states are sneaky as is.

In order to be convicted, you have to a) know all the terms of the plea you are signing and b) understand all of the components. The forms are designed for the lowest common denominator, ie if you are driving a car, you should be able to understand the language on the ticket itself if you waive your right to trial by jury. A typical speeding ticket will require you to show up in front of a judge with or without a lawyer. Alternatively, states will give you options to avoid the hassle and allow you to plead no contest to the charges and simply accept the fine/conviction. If you went to court, the judge would have asked you, "Do you understand that by accepting the terms of this plea...." If you did things by mail, the ticket will have explicitly stated the consequences. Otherwise the conviction easy to attack and you (and thousands of others in that city/state) would have a massive, actionable civil suit. I'm currently sitting next to an assistant district attorney double checking me...

This is my point: You don't know. You either didn't know you had a misdemeanor conviction or willingly hid it from the committee. You don't know what your ticket actually said, you don't know what you actually signed. You assume, like you say you did with the admissions committee (that you thought it was too minor to mention) that the state was being "sneaky". Guess what? Patients are sneaky. Nurses are sneaky. Medicine itself is complex and tricky (but no soul/emotions so not 'sneaky'). Nobody cares about a speeding ticket, especially a single one. But, not knowing when you are signing important documents, not knowing about convictions, trying to hide things from the committee, blaming others for your mistakes (state was sneaky!) people do care about because those kinds of people can have problems down the road in medicine.

Speeding tickets and other minor infractions are relatively common. This part of the application is simply a small test. Very few people have trouble with it on any part. You failed it. As previously stated, is this something that people lose their spot in a medical school class? Potentially, but not usually. Most of the time applicants recognize that the expectation of medical students and physicians is very high, and we hold ourselves as the public does, to a very high standard. Being able to accept that level of responsibility is an important component of what we are looking for in our future students. We don't care (much) if you drive too fast, but if you can't help but argue about speeding with people or how it was hard to know that you had a conviction (because the state was 'sneaky') you are going to be laughed at.

I realized toward the end of this that you aren't the OP and it is written with a lot of 'you' in it rather than 'he'. Sorry...

 

[Iso4ane]

In order to be convicted, you have to a) know all the terms of the plea you are signing and b) understand all of the components. The forms are designed for the lowest common denominator, ie if you are driving a car, you should be able to understand the language on the ticket itself if you waive your right to trial by jury. A typical speeding ticket will require you to show up in front of a judge with or without a lawyer. Alternatively, states will give you options to avoid the hassle and allow you to plead no contest to the charges and simply accept the fine/conviction. If you went to court, the judge would have asked you, "Do you understand that by accepting the terms of this plea...." If you did things by mail, the ticket will have explicitly stated the consequences. Otherwise the conviction easy to attack and you (and thousands of others in that city/state) would have a massive, actionable civil suit. I'm currently sitting next to an assistant district attorney double checking me...

This is my point: You don't know. You either didn't know you had a misdemeanor conviction or willingly hid it from the committee. You don't know what your ticket actually said, you don't know what you actually signed. You assume, like you say you did with the admissions committee (that you thought it was too minor to mention) that the state was being "sneaky". Guess what? Patients are sneaky. Nurses are sneaky. Medicine itself is complex and tricky (but no soul/emotions so not 'sneaky'). Nobody cares about a speeding ticket, especially a single one. But, not knowing when you are signing important documents, not knowing about convictions, trying to hide things from the committee, blaming others for your mistakes (state was sneaky!) people do care about because those kinds of people can have problems down the road in medicine.

Speeding tickets and other minor infractions are relatively common. This part of the application is simply a small test. Very few people have trouble with it on any part. You failed it. As previously stated, is this something that people lose their spot in a medical school class? Potentially, but not usually. Most of the time applicants recognize that the expectation of medical students and physicians is very high, and we hold ourselves as the public does, to a very high standard. Being able to accept that level of responsibility is an important component of what we are looking for in our future students. We don't care (much) if you drive too fast, but if you can't help but argue about speeding with people or how it was hard to know that you had a conviction (because the state was 'sneaky') you are going to be laughed at.

I realized toward the end of this that you aren't the OP and it is written with a lot of 'you' in it rather than 'he'. Sorry...

Yeah, totally not OP. I agree with you, but to err is human. I am not saying he shouldn't man up about it, but at this point in the story, I think it would be much better to say that he was not aware at the time that a speeding violation equated to a minor misdemeanor. EDIT: instead of trying to hide it.

And in response to what someone states earlier, as far as I am aware in the state of Ohio ALL traffic violations are at least a minor misdemeanor, yes that includes parking tickets as well.

 

[Azete]

A lot of people attacking the OP for a lack of awareness and so forth. Sometimes, it's not as cut and dry as some think it is.

For example, this is from my own professional background check:

One of these is a misdemeanor and the other is not. Try figuring out which one.

 

[mimelim]

A lot of people attacking the OP for a lack of awareness and so forth. Sometimes, it's not as cut and dry as some think it is.

For example, this is from my own professional background check:

One of these is a misdemeanor and the other is not. Try figuring out which one.

#1 Not a single person has said that background checks aren't hard to read.
#2 As previously stated, it is explicitly clear when you go to court or sign the document agreeing to pay the fine.
#3 Even with that background check, if anything pops up, you can consult an attorney or use the internet + what state you are in to figure out what exactly each thing is.

 

[GUH]

A lot of people attacking the OP for a lack of awareness and so forth. Sometimes, it's not as cut and dry as some think it is.

For example, this is from my own professional background check:

One of these is a misdemeanor and the other is not. Try figuring out which one.

I'm going to guess that the 10+ one is the misdemeanor, since it's > 10MPH over the speed limit.

 

[Neutropix]

#1 Not a single person has said that background checks aren't hard to read.
#2 As previously stated, it is explicitly clear when you go to court or sign the document agreeing to pay the fine.
#3 Even with that background check, if anything pops up, you can consult an attorney or use the internet + what state you are in to figure out what exactly each thing is.

Exactly. Medical school is such a huge investment I don't see why one would't take the time to cover their steps throughly through the process.

PS: I'm going outdoor climbing my first time this weekend and I'm stoked! (long time indoor climber)

 

[Azete]

#1 Not a single person has said that background checks aren't hard to read.
#2 As previously stated, it is explicitly clear when you go to court or sign the document agreeing to pay the fine.
#3 Even with that background check, if anything pops up, you can consult an attorney or use the internet + what state you are in to figure out what exactly each thing is.

My point was that the only difference between the two is the state they were acquired in, neither of which is my state of residence. Also, depending on the OP's state, even if he incurs a misdemeanor traffic violation in another state -- some states do not honor that, and his record will only indicate how his state of residence classified the violation.

What I do think everybody should do is pay for a detailed background check so they know exactly what medical schools will be receiving. But chastising him for not recognizing how it was initially classified is a little condescending; I'm a licensed attorney and I still struggle with it sometimes.

 

[mimelim]

My point was that the only difference between the two is the state they were acquired in, neither of which is my state of residence. Also, depending on the OP's state, even if he incurs a misdemeanor traffic violation in another state -- some states do not honor that, and his record will only indicate how his state of residence classified the violation.

What I do think everybody should do is pay for a detailed background check so they know exactly what medical schools will be receiving. But chastising him for not recognizing how it was initially classified is a little condescending; I'm a licensed attorney and I still struggle with it sometimes.

You struggle with figuring out during the conviction process what you were convicted of? Again, nobody is expecting that anyone will know what specific states consider different violations. This is very simple. If you have past violations, it is expected of applicants to know what their violations were. That is hardly a high bar. "It was confusing." Is a piss poor defense, especially given how the conviction process works. If figuring out this kind of stuff with essentially infinite time on your hands to look into and research it is difficult, medicine may not be the right path.

 

[Azete]

You struggle with figuring out during the conviction process what you were convicted of? Again, nobody is expecting that anyone will know what specific states consider different violations. This is very simple. If you have past violations, it is expected of applicants to know what their violations were. That is hardly a high bar. "It was confusing." Is a piss poor defense, especially given how the conviction process works. If figuring out this kind of stuff with essentially infinite time on your hands to look into and research it is difficult, medicine may not be the right path.

You make it sound like everyone attends a trial by jury for a speeding ticket.

The "confusing" part isn't in acknowledging the conviction. The "confusing" part may be that he signed an admission of guilt for a minor traffic violation in one state, but was documented as a misdemeanor in his state of residence -- or vice versa. To be clear, he would not receive a phone call, or a letter, or a "GOTCHA" meme from a judge explaining the discrepancy. The first time someone would know this would be if they looked into their own personal record. Which, if nothing has changed (to their knowledge), why would anyone do this unless they were preparing to apply for a job or graduate school?

If he lives in Ohio, got a ticket in Ohio, and has lived in Ohio for 10 years then OK, he probably should have known. He didn't offer any details, though, so assuming he's going to be a bad doctor because he didn't know the nuances of constantly changing legislation may be jumping the gun.

 

[I'mJustCurious]

They may not be happy, but legally speaking they would have absolutely no standing to punish you if they only asked about convictions.

Well even if someone got by with that, wouldn't they not be licensed by the medical boards? Or would they still get licensed depending the severity?


Btw, if OP didn't disclose it, is he automatically rejected even though he got accepted?

 

[jqueb29]

Well even if someone got by with that, wouldn't they not be licensed by the medical boards? Or would they still get licensed depending the severity?


Btw, if OP didn't disclose it, is he automatically rejected even though he got accepted?

Imagine you were arrested for a crime that you did not commit, but thankfully you were not convicted. Then imagine if the medical boards tried to deny you a license on this basis. That is massively illegal.

 

[I'mJustCurious]

Imagine you were arrested for a crime that you did not commit, but thankfully you were not convicted. Then imagine if the medical boards tried to deny you a license on this basis. That is massively illegal.

But I heard stories of doctors with criminal records. Does it have to be expunged in order for you to get licensed? I think what I'm trying to get here is if OP got through interviews and got accepted to medical school without anyone knowing he did have a criminal record. Couldn't he get it expunged during medical school so by the time he gets to get licensed it will already be erased?

 

[LizzyM]

I do hope that @QUESTIONSSI comes back to tell us the rest of the story.

 

[mimelim]

For the pre-meds on the thread, two quick notes:

(1) This is the resident/fellow version of, "You didn't know a ticket was a misdemeanor?! You'll never be a good doctor!"

(2) This is also why the vascular surgery guys are generally the least-liked people in the hospital. We don't call them when we go to get beer.

Hey look, someone else claiming other people are saying things that they didn't. *rolleyes*

 

[QUESTIONSSI]

Hey all, thanks for the response.

I called the administration, and they were super helpful. They told me what specifically concerned them wasn't so much speeding, but the fact that I had three chances to disclose the misdemeanor, failed to do so, and they had to hear about it from the background check.

I'm finalizing my formal explanation right now, which essentially, describes why I thought the speeding ticket wasn't a misdemeanor, how this translated to the unintentional omissions during the application process, and that regardless of any confusion, it was my responsibility to make sure this was all hammered out prior to applying. I apologized, and noted that innocent/careless mistakes like this should be taken seriously, as in the field of medicine, they can sometimes have harmful effects.

I was told there are three possible outcomes for this process. My acceptance can be revoked, my acceptance can be fully reinstated (its in limbo right now), or it can be reinstated on the condition of completing a seminar/class on responsibility/professionalism. Obviously, I'm pulling for the latter two options.

 

[Lawpy]

For the pre-meds on the thread, two quick notes:

(1) This is the resident/fellow version of, "You didn't know a ticket was a misdemeanor?! You'll never be a good doctor!"

(2) This is also why the vascular surgery guys are generally the least-liked people in the hospital. We don't call them when we go to get beer.

Hey look, someone else claiming other people are saying things that they didn't. *rolleyes*

Resident controversies on SDN are sadly entertaining. My fault I know, but I really can't help it but think what @SouthernSurgeon thinks about this issue.

In b4 getting tossed out the thread.

 

[Lawpy]

... so much for a conflict resolution, and I look like a culprit now for dragging you in this mess. Well played 😢😢

 

[Goro]

This isn't the issue here. As concisely pointed out by Mimelim, it's what part of "tell us about your felony and misdemeanor convictions" don't you understand?

Imagine you were arrested for a crime that you did not commit, but thankfully you were not convicted. Then imagine if the medical boards tried to deny you a license on this basis. That is massively illegal.

 

[mehc012]

This isn't the issue here. As concisely pointed out by Mimelim, it's what part of "tell us about your felony and misdemeanor convictions" don't you understand?

They understood, they just didn't know their traffic violation counted as a misdemeanor.

I, also, have no clue how my 2 traffic violations have counted...not a clue. This isn't because I didn't read the damn things, it's because it was 4yrs ago and I didn't care about the classification at that time...it wouldn't have changed my plea or my fine, so why would I memorize that detail? The second one, I attended the court session and the judge automatically let everyone who showed up accept a plea bargain for a parking ticket instead (except for one @$$hole who felt the need to actually argue it...he got stuck with a moving violation). Couldn't tell you how that one was classified, the whole thing was so quick and formulaic, and again, it had no bearing on the situation. It was all verbal, and I asked 3 questions: did the fine change, did I get points on my license, and how would insurance companies handle it? That was the pertinent information.

Expecting someone to recall, 5+ years down the line, whether maybe there was a line somewhere stating it was a misdemeanor vs a normal traffic violation, when that fact had no bearing on their life, is more than simply expecting conscientiousness (as mimelim suggests). It's more akin to asking whether the patient you saw for her broken ankle last week still had her gallbladder. Sure, it was probably in the chart somewhere, documented under SHx, but it wasn't relevant and it wouldn't necessarily stick in your mind.

I honestly didn't even realize that any state would consider a normal traffic violation to be a misdemeanor, so I wouldn't do something drastic like order a background check on myself, because - if you discount speeding tickets - I have absolutely nothing that would come up on it. If you didn't know that speeding tickets could count as misdemeanors, why would you think twice about checking 'no'? Not all of us consider speeding tickets to be 'important documents' just because they were handed out by someone with a badge. They have minimal impact on your life, other than serving as a reminder that if you're not going to pay close enough attention when you're driving fast to be able spot a cop ahead, you deserve to lose some money so as to be jolted into paying more attention in the future.

 

[Goro]

You guys need to start watching Cops!

They understood, they just didn't know their traffic violation counted as a misdemeanor.

I, also, have no clue how my 2 traffic violations have counted...not a clue. This isn't because I didn't read the damn things, it's because it was 4yrs ago and I didn't care about the classification at that time...it wouldn't have changed my plea or my fine, so why would I memorize that detail? The second one, I attended the court session and the judge automatically let everyone who showed up accept a plea bargain for a parking ticket instead (except for one @$$hole who felt the need to actually argue it...he got stuck with a moving violation). Couldn't tell you how that one was classified, the whole thing was so quick and formulaic, and again, it had no bearing on the situation. It was all verbal, and I asked 3 questions: did the fine change, did I get points on my license, and how would insurance companies handle it? That was the pertinent information.

Expecting someone to recall, 5+ years down the line, whether maybe there was a line somewhere stating it was a misdemeanor vs a normal traffic violation, when that fact had no bearing on their life, is more than simply expecting conscientiousness (as mimelim suggests). It's more akin to asking whether the patient you saw for her broken ankle last week still had her gallbladder. Sure, it was probably in the chart somewhere, documented under SHx, but it wasn't relevant and it wouldn't necessarily stick in your mind.

I honestly didn't even realize that any state would consider a normal traffic violation to be a misdemeanor, so I wouldn't do something drastic like order a background check on myself, because - if you discount speeding tickets - I have absolutely nothing that would come up on it. If you didn't know that speeding tickets could count as misdemeanors, why would you think twice about checking 'no'? Not all of us consider speeding tickets to be 'important documents' just because they were handed out by someone with a badge. They have minimal impact on your life, other than serving as a reminder that if you're not going to pay close enough attention when you're driving fast to be able spot a cop ahead, you deserve to lose some money so as to be jolted into paying more attention in the future.

 

[NeuResurgens]

I tend to think that we might be jumping the gun a bit as well. If I had a misdemeanor traffic violation vs. a regular traffic violation, I would have no idea. Couldn't the application make it easier by saying something like "list all of your violations of the law, including traffic violations" rather than using the complicated and unnecessarily variable legal terms? I completely agree that doctors need attention to detail, but this is something even doctors would mostly overlook. This is especially true since for a sizable number of applicants, these violations would have occurred even before they had any direction in life anyway. My traffic violations occurred at a time when it would never have crossed my mind to say, "I wonder if medical schools will want to know about this?" Add this to the fact that states likely complicate the process to make it more difficult and time consuming to try and get out of a ticket, and this becomes a very easy trap to fall into.

My point is, this is a simple mistake anyone could commit, and I think every human being on earth has at least one mistake that fits into this category. Yes, personal responsibility = necessary. And no, having infractions isn't justified. But I wouldn't say this was a "duh, you EASILY should have known" sort of situation either.

 

[Neutropix]

They understood, they just didn't know their traffic violation counted as a misdemeanor.

I, also, have no clue how my 2 traffic violations have counted...not a clue. This isn't because I didn't read the damn things, it's because it was 4yrs ago and I didn't care about the classification at that time...it wouldn't have changed my plea or my fine, so why would I memorize that detail? The second one, I attended the court session and the judge automatically let everyone who showed up accept a plea bargain for a parking ticket instead (except for one @$$hole who felt the need to actually argue it...he got stuck with a moving violation). Couldn't tell you how that one was classified, the whole thing was so quick and formulaic, and again, it had no bearing on the situation. It was all verbal, and I asked 3 questions: did the fine change, did I get points on my license, and how would insurance companies handle it? That was the pertinent information.

Expecting someone to recall, 5+ years down the line, whether maybe there was a line somewhere stating it was a misdemeanor vs a normal traffic violation, when that fact had no bearing on their life, is more than simply expecting conscientiousness (as mimelim suggests). It's more akin to asking whether the patient you saw for her broken ankle last week still had her gallbladder. Sure, it was probably in the chart somewhere, documented under SHx, but it wasn't relevant and it wouldn't necessarily stick in your mind.

I honestly didn't even realize that any state would consider a normal traffic violation to be a misdemeanor, so I wouldn't do something drastic like order a background check on myself, because - if you discount speeding tickets - I have absolutely nothing that would come up on it. If you didn't know that speeding tickets could count as misdemeanors, why would you think twice about checking 'no'? Not all of us consider speeding tickets to be 'important documents' just because they were handed out by someone with a badge. They have minimal impact on your life, other than serving as a reminder that if you're not going to pay close enough attention when you're driving fast to be able spot a cop ahead, you deserve to lose some money so as to be jolted into paying more attention in the future.

Was all this necessary. Pretty much every time I read a post from you it sounds like you're using words and analogies that don't really fit into the context or conversation, presumably to sound smarter. It's superfluous and makes for an awkward read.

Anyways, yeah welcome to the real world. Pretty much everything you do is documented in some way, shape, or form. You may forget something you did four years ago. However, patients don't forget who operated or treated them.

Once again, why would you not run a background check? You realize you could drive through a red light activated camera in the daytime and be billed for a ticket right? That happened to me and I never got the followup paper work. A year later, I found out there was a warrant for my arrest from a ticket I knew nothing about. Anytime information is exchanged with the police it's a good idea to check on that sh** until you're a 100% sure it's gone away.

Running a background check is called covering your ass; it's what adults do.

 

[NeuResurgens]

Was all this necessary. Pretty much every time I read a post from you it sounds like you're using words and analogies that don't really fit into the context or conversation, presumably to sound smarter. It's superfluous and makes for an awkward read.

Anyways, yeah welcome to the real world. Pretty much everything you do is documented in some way, shape, or form. You may forget something you did four years ago. However, patients don't forget who operated or treated them.

Once again, why would you not run a background check? You realize you could drive through a red light activated camera in the daytime and be billed for a ticket right? That happened to me and I never got the followup paper work. A year later, I found out there was a warrant for my arrest from a ticket I knew nothing about. Anytime information is exchanged with the police it's a good idea to check on that sh** until you're a 100% sure it's gone away.

Running a background check is called covering your ass; it's what adults do.

So you admit to making the mistake of not following up, which led to an arrest warrant? This is my point - traffic infractions are by nature shady and difficult, so it often requires it to come to a head before you realize specifically how and where it's going to cause problems.

I'm against the practice of giving speeding tickets through pullovers in general, but that's a different debate..

 

[nontrad26]

This is a somewhat frightening thread to join in on as a first-time poster, but here goes nothing.

I was a stupid (read: very, very stupid) teenager and got quite a few speeding tickets. I have no idea whether any of them were recorded as misdemeanors. I always planned on running a background check on myself before submitting my app, but this makes me nervous and I want to make sure I use the most comprehensive one available so I don't end up in OP's unfortunate situation. Does anyone have recommendations on this front?

 

[NeuResurgens]

This is a somewhat frightening thread to join in on as a first-time poster, but here goes nothing.

I was a stupid (read: very, very stupid) teenager and got quite a few speeding tickets. I have no idea whether any of them were recorded as misdemeanors. I always planned on running a background check on myself before submitting my app, but this makes me nervous and I want to make sure I use the most comprehensive one available so I don't end up in OP's unfortunate situation. Does anyone have recommendations on this front?

Some googling can help you here. Some of the ones I've heard of are InstantCheckmate, PeopleSmart, etc.

 

[Neutropix]

So you admit to making the mistake of not following up, which led to an arrest warrant? This is my point - traffic infractions are by nature shady and difficult, so it often requires it to come to a head before you realize specifically how and where it's going to cause problems.

I'm against the practice of giving speeding tickets through pullovers in general, but that's a different debate..

You misread. I didn't know I was ticketed at ALL. I haven't applied to med school yet.

 

[sliceofbread136]

This depends on the state, but yes, most if not all have things like this for the first (or a couple) offenses.



I disagree. Most people don't know the difference between a traffic violation and a misdemeanor or what it means, I doubt OP thought about this at all. Which is the bigger problem. Ticket = no big deal, pay fine and move on without being conscientious is a problem. And to be honest, that kind of attitude in medicine is an even bigger problem. I don't think that it is too high of a standard to expect people going into medicine to read the fine print on things that are 'important'. Personally, I think getting pulled over by a cop means something important is going on, but this is just my opinion.

I am also sick of cleaning up after interns/second years who don't understand the importance of conscientiousness, so maybe that is why this kind of stuff in applicants bugs me a lot, in large part because people don't generally change in that regard.

Am I the only one who thought this was ridiculous? Making these broad reaching character assumptions based on a single oversight by OP is definitely a stretch.

 

[NeuResurgens]

You misread. I didn't know I was ticketed at ALL. I haven't applied to med school yet.

I don't believe I said anything about you having applied, but my point still stands - it would be a little unfair to make a character/judgement accusation against you based on that situation. Not knowing about a red light ticket is probably less egregious than not knowing a ticket was a misdemeanor, but not by much. I'm just saying people shouldn't be treating this like a black vs. white, smart vs. stupid sort of thing, because it's not when it comes to these small intricacies.

 

[IgEdoc]

I guess sainthood will now be part of the application into medical school:
Name your three miracles
1 ________________
2 ________________
3 ________________

 

[Neutropix]

Am I the only one who thought this was ridiculous? Making these broad reaching character assumptions based on a single oversight by OP is definitely a stretch.

Not really. It makes sense.

 

[Neutropix]

I guess sainthood will now be part of the application into medical school:
Name your three miracles
1 ________________
2 ________________
3 ________________

1. Rescued a girl from a lion's den while on crutches
2. Washed all my dishes instead of leaving them in my room overnight
3. Birthed my older sister
4. I have never had a sexual thought either

These are all true

 

[Inventor of Post-Its]

Jeez, I got a speeding ticket once and didn't even fully realize the benefits of hiring a lawyer to defend me in court before now. I was going 17 over the speed limit, and my Certiphi background check is completely clean. I'm pretty sure he didn't charge me much more than what the ticket fine would have been.

 

[NeuResurgens]

1. Rescued a girl from a lion's den while on crutches
2. Washed all my dishes instead of leaving them in my room overnight
3. Birthed my older sister
4. I have never had a sexual thought either

These are all true

Don't forget saving Johnny and his puppy from the burning orphanage. That one was impressive